Fifty Plus (50+) - Brifters and why are they desired

I was talking to a bike shop owner that was in his 50's. I asked him about brifters and I was surprised at what he said. It was his opinion that the main advantage of the brifter was for racing while in team events. He said that some of the teams had riders that were out to take down other teams top riders by intentionally breaking and causing crashes. The brifter allows the rider to be in a position to shift and break without having to move their hands so that they can ride more defensively.

He went on to say that he preferred down tube shifters because he does not race and no matter what hand position he is using while riding he can just drop his hand to the shifter easily. He also said that most riders when shifting brifters want both hands at the same location on their bars while shifting. Maybe this is because there is a chance that the brake might be accidentally applied.

I have only used down tube shifters and have never had my hands on a brifter so I am wondering if any of the above information is even close to being correct. It sure seems like most want brifters on their bikes.

Well, most new bikes come with brifters, and most advertising features brifters, so it's hard for an uninformed consumer to want anything else.

I wouldn't say they're quite as bad as your shop owner makes out. They do have some advantages, like being easy to shift down on a hard stop for an unexpected red light or left/right cross motorist for urban riders, or easy to shift down while heading uphill while loaded touring. One of the disadvantages nobody seems to talk about is that you're pretty much locked into one hand position (on the hoods) to get those advantages -- sort of takes the benefit of "multiple hand positions" out of dropped bars.

I think it really comes down to personal preference. If someone's buying their first road bike, let them ride it with brifters -- compared to the body position change from a MTB or cruiser, that's small change. Then it becomes a case of what you're used to.

Brifters were designed in order to give the rider better control while shifting, not having to take your hand and physically move it from the handlebar to reach the shift lever. Brifters allow you to shift on rougher road surfaces while maintaining control of the handlebars.

There's no 'break-in' period learning to operate brifters; you'll pick it up very quickly. Also, since the shift mechanism moves sideways, there's no way to unintentionally apply the brakes while shifting.

FWIW... brifters weren't designed so that riders could "intentionally brake and cause crashes". A pro racer or team with that sort of philosophy better think about competing in another sport entirely, like roller derby.

Brifters are so popular on bikes because it's what the guys in the TdF are using. It's not 'better'... just another way to shift.

Bottom Line? Use whatever you prefer to use, whether it be down tube, bar-end, brifter, stem, thumb, Grip Shift, RapidFire Plus, Positron, Centeron... you get the picture!

Alan :thumb:

Only one of those two shifter types requires you to take a hand off the bar to use. Would you like your first OMG Panic! moment to occur when you've only one hand on the bar? Don't forget, Lady Luck has a sense of humor.

I was talking to a bike shop owner that was in his 50's. I asked him about brifters and I was surprised at what he said. It was his opinion that the main advantage of the brifter was for racing while in team events. He said that some of the teams had riders that were out to take down other teams top riders by intentionally breaking and causing crashes.

a) He's wrong about the racing "advantage", it makes no sense because last I checked, "brifters" and down tube shift bikes have their brake levers in virtually the same spot. He's wrong about hand position, you can stick the non shift hand anywhere on the bar with "brifters", same as on a downtube bike. He's a wrong about taking a hand off the bar to have to shift being "better", ride around all day one handed and you'll understand this.

b) Advantages: being able to leave both hands on the bars, being able to shift and brake simultaneously, quicker shifts, not having pointy objects on your downtube, not having cables flying out there on most systems.

c) Disadvantages: None. Well maybe weight if you take lightest vs. lightest but we're talking about a really small amount.

d) I can shift from both the hoods and the drops on any of the current systems. Thanks to spring loaded levers, I can also use multiple hand positions in the drops. With SRAM I go up or down from the same lever.

e) Of all the current major systems, only on certain mechanical Shimano groups might you accidentally brake. Every other group has the shifting separated from the brake lever.

I find I shift far more regularly and easily with brifters. I do like the simplicity of friction shifting, though.

why are they desired?

desired , they are hard to get away from,
As all new bikes with very rare exceptions, are indexed,
as you all have the engines of consumerism making them
standard on the bikes in the shops .
they help people who do not want to think about math, of ratios and proportions ,
just an easy to harder 1,2,3.. so increase sales.

I'm a bar end shifter, myself, even the old race style bike has them..
but Yea, OEM builds it is where the component market went..

Touring bike builders often fit the index bar end, non index front ,left,
lets you run either road or mountain cranksets, and FD.
and trim the cage after rear shifts, so it won't drag against the chain...

I did not have to follow.. my last bike purchase didn't even use derailleurs.

I find I shift far more regularly and easily with brifters. I do like the simplicity of friction shifting, though.

I ran friction shifters on my TT bike for years...the long cable runs and tight bends created a fair bit of slack and cable stretch and it was nice to always find center.

With Di2 it's a perfect shift, every time. Stuff's amazing. Front derailleur trims itself. At one point I was lugging up a hill and an electronic voice asked me if I would like to downshift.

OK, not quite, but it's really nice stuff.

Another conspiracy theory. That's one of the goofiest things that I've ever heard.

I have to think that having a look at the Di2 or Campy electronic groupsets would put all those types of questions to rest.

Also, since the shift mechanism moves sideways, there's no way to unintentionally apply the brakes while shifting.



Well, except it's quite easy to do that on some of the Shimano brifters. I *constantly* was accidentally braking while shifting with the ones that came stock on my Secteur. That, and the thumb button for upshifts annoyed the hell out of me.

When I swapped it over to Apex, I don't think I ever accidentally braked even once.

I would probably still be riding a hybrid if down tube shifting was the only option for a road bicycle.

I was talking to a bike shop owner that was in his 50's. I asked him about brifters and I was surprised at what he said. It was his opinion that (1.) the main advantage of the brifter was for racing while in team events. He said that (2.) some of the teams had riders that were out to take down other teams top riders by intentionally breaking and causing crashes. (3.) The brifter allows the rider to be in a position to shift and break without having to move their hands so that they can ride more defensively.

He went on to say that (4.) he preferred down tube shifters because he does not race and no matter what hand position he is using while riding he can just drop his hand to the shifter easily. (5.) He also said that most riders when shifting brifters want both hands at the same location on their bars while shifting. (6.) Maybe this is because there is a chance that the brake might be accidentally applied. I have only used down tube shifters and have never had my hands on a brifter so I am wondering if any of the above information is even close to being correct. It sure seems like most want brifters on their bikes.

(1.) Find another LBS!
(2.) Find another LBS quick!!
(3.) Find another LBS now!!!
(4.) Find another LBS with a younger owner!
(5.) Find another LBS with a younger owner that knows how to ride a bike!!!
(6.) Find another LBS with a younger owner that knows how to ride a bike and who's not a complete friggin' klutz!!!!!

Seriously.

Brifters are the simplest, easiest to use method of shifting gears ever used on bicycles, and if anything they should have come on all entry-level bikes first.



.....One of the disadvantages nobody seems to talk about is that you're pretty much locked into one hand position (on the hoods) to get those advantages -- sort of takes the benefit of "multiple hand positions" out of dropped bars.....
Sorry, FAIL! You are not required to keep your hands on the hoods to keep the bike in gear, so once you have shifted, you are free to move your hand however you please, just like with downtubes shifters!!! :D




b) Advantages: being able to leave both hands on the bars, being able to shift and brake simultaneously, quicker shifts, not having pointy objects on your downtube, not having cables flying out there on most systems.

c) Disadvantages: None. Well maybe weight if you take lightest vs. lightest but we're talking about a really small amount......
+ 1 ... :thumb: ...Twice!



.....With Di2 it's a perfect shift, every time. Stuff's amazing. Front derailleur trims itself......
+ 1 ... :thumb: ...Cool stuff there, huh???



Another conspiracy theory. That's one of the goofiest things that I've ever heard.
+ 1 ... :thumb: ...Doodoodoodoo, doodoodoodoo..... ... :twitchy:

I always thought it was part of the manufacturers' effort to lock you in to their stuff and nobody else's.

What's a brifter?

BTW, wooden rims are better than Al or carbon. Why would you use anything else?

The guy was stating an Opinion, everyone has at least one.. :lol:

No choice, now, buy a new drop bar race style Road Bike
it will have Indexed Brifters. br[ake-sh]ifter

unless you think a fixie will make you feel young and Hip again. :innocent:

It seems that most like brifters.

Don't be knocking wood. Some aerobatic planes still use wooden spars because it does not fatigue due to flexing.

Well, except it's quite easy to do that on some of the Shimano brifters. I *constantly* was accidentally braking while shifting with the ones that came stock on my Secteur. That, and the thumb button for upshifts annoyed the hell out of me.

When I swapped it over to Apex, I don't think I ever accidentally braked even once.Really, which shifters, was this Sora?

I've been riding for less then a year, using Shimano 105 and have never had a problem with accidental braking. I actually prefer Shimano over Sram.

At least people have choices.

Well, except it's quite easy to do that on some of the Shimano brifters. I *constantly* was accidentally braking while shifting with the ones that came stock on my Secteur. That, and the thumb button for upshifts annoyed the hell out of me.

When I swapped it over to Apex, I don't think I ever accidentally braked even once.

Interesting, just got on a roadie a few weeks ago after not riding roadie for over 30 years. When I tested and riding the Defy 1(shimano 105) now, I don't ever recall "accidentally" braking while shifting or shifting accidentally while braking...maybe it's just me. I will say, I wish there were brakes for the flats like on my early '80s Ross roadie. But, I do ride multiple hand positions, mainly hoods though, but even on the hoods there is more than one hand position, IMHO.



What's a brifter?

If your kidding, :roflmao:

If you're not
Brifter
A combination brake/shift lever, such as a Campagnolo (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html) Ergo (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#ergo) or Shimano (http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano.html) S.T.I. (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_st-z.html#sti) unit. This term was coined by Bruce Frech.


Image of a Brifter

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://thelazyrando.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/igh-brifter.jpg?w=510&sa=X&ei=Sh-LT5euMaW62gXC8pTaCQ&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGQxZNCkXkCqIMWx3jWDL8d8rx8Qg

Interesting thread. As has been previously stated, folk who use brifters tend to shift more. Because they are maintaining their cadence, they tend to be a little faster/stronger during long rides. I've seen this with the club I ride with.
As for a conspiracy, Suntour, Shimano and Campy index are not compatible, and that predates brifters. As for some sort of conspiracy to force new bike riders to buy only brifter equipped bikes, Specialized tried a downtube shifter bike last year. The biggest complaint about it, it didn't have brifters.
The reason brifters are found on most new bikes is due to providing the public with what they want. If brifters weren't in demand, there would be lots of bikes being sold by all the big manufacturers without them.
The bike and equipment manufacturers want to sell product, they only manufacture and sell what the public wants.

I love the brifters. So nice to have two hands on the bars and still be able to shift.
It's a big plus on rough roads, climbing, or in winds where I don't want to ride one-handed.

The only downside to brifters I've noted:
* I need a little more manual dexterity to shift gears. I could use the downtube shifters on my old 10-speed wearing leather ski mittens.
* I don't move my hands around so much and I get some hand numbness. When they get numb the brifters are hard to work too.

My LBS has put extra padding on the handlebar wrap under the hoods and I'm visiting a neurologist to see if something is going on besides road buzz.

nkfrench, I do agree about brifters being tougher to use when I use winter gloves. I've yet to use the mittens I used on the comfort on the roadie--this will come next winter--fingers crossed.

Brifters are the simplest, easiest to use method of shifting gears ever used on bicycles, and if anything they should have come on all entry-level bikes first.[/B]



In truth, they're not so hot on my hybrid. :)

My only brifter experience was with an Ultegra set. I was struck by the huge displacement of the lever required to get a shift; my fingers were almost not large enough to move that much. I'm accustomed to index shifters which don't even require all the joints on a single finger to operate. With that said, brifters are the obvious "correct" solution for any drop-bar bike.

I was talking to a bike shop owner that was in his 50's. I asked him about brifters and I was surprised at what he said. It was his opinion that the main advantage of the brifter was for racing while in team events. He said that some of the teams had riders that were out to take down other teams top riders by intentionally breaking and causing crashes. The brifter allows the rider to be in a position to shift and break without having to move their hands so that they can ride more defensively.

He went on to say that he preferred down tube shifters because he does not race and no matter what hand position he is using while riding he can just drop his hand to the shifter easily. He also said that most riders when shifting brifters want both hands at the same location on their bars while shifting. Maybe this is because there is a chance that the brake might be accidentally applied.

I have only used down tube shifters and have never had my hands on a brifter so I am wondering if any of the above information is even close to being correct. It sure seems like most want brifters on their bikes.

None of the information the LBS worker gave you is true. Some people do prefer downtube shifters but between the two systems I prefer Brifters. Because they are easier to use maybe people do shift more and so try to stay in the proper RPM spin for a speed and gear. Given the choice between two bikes that were the same except one had downtube shifters and the other had Brifters I would take the brifters every time. Positive shifts every time just when you need them make it worth it to most of us. They do cost more and they can break. But there is no learning curve to use them and you can keep both hands on the bar when shifting.

most complex mechanism ... though, easy to use.

If .. if the whole system is in adjustment. and nothing get's bent.

I was talking to a bike shop owner that was in his 50's.


Find another LBS with a younger owner!

Gee, the bike shop guy is only in his 50's! That's not old. I was thinking he needs to find a LBS with an older owner who has a little more experience and doesn't take himself so seriously.

Gee, the bike shop guy is only in his 50's! That's not old. I was thinking he needs to find a LBS with an older owner who has a little more experience and doesn't take himself so seriously.

There's young in years and young in spirit, but dude I'm 55 and I'm telling you that that old geezer needs to retire!

Wow. I had been away from cycling for 25 years (raising kids, a stint in Texas, etc), and when a college kid showed me a video of the Cross Crusade and I saw Brifters in use for the first time, I was re-hooked. I cannot imagine going back to stem shifting on my primary bike (would consider it for my commuter, maybe but why?). I have never "accidentally" braked whilst shifting. What planet is that guy from? You should find out, since I hear Venutians will eat your brain for breakfast given the chance....

Really, which shifters, was this Sora?

I've been riding for less then a year, using Shimano 105 and have never had a problem with accidental braking. I actually prefer Shimano over Sram.

At least people have choices.

It was the level that came below Sora ;-) 2300 groupset.

I find that the Sram hoods fit my hands better than the Shimano. Make no mistake - the Shimano brifters shifted fine, but the ergonomics were just "off" for me.

c) Disadvantages: None. Well maybe weight if you take lightest vs. lightest but we're talking about a really small amount.

Disadvantages:

1) expense
2) complexity

Can you even find a new bike for sale these days with downtube shifters? Specialized has a retro model but that's the only one I can think of.

I road a friend's bike with brifters once, and the next day, my legs were really sore. So they must cause more fatigue.

Disadvantages:

1) expense
2) complexity

This would seem to be a reasonable argument on face vale.

Complexity...for the small portion of the population who have rebuilt a pair of Record shifters, yes. But operational complexity for the 98.635% who haven't and never will? No. PUSH BUTTON. Click? Click. Gear changed.

Indexed shifters of any kind are a PIA to rebuild, be they down tube or brifter. The worst in the world are SRAM R2C "bar end". Campy Record bar end are a close second to get working well. Record brifters aren't bad. Caveat that these are 10 speed.

Expense?

Take a bare frame and price it out. Brake levers, down tube shifters and mounting device for the shifters. Now go price out a set of Tiagra.

You can do the Tiagra cheaper.

Integrated shifters are one of the biggest improvements in the history of cycling. I realized back in the early 70's that down tube, friction shifters were anathema to the aerobically gifted but coordination challenged athlete.

Riding in a paceline, I've only come close to dying about 3 times using brifters in the last few years as opposed to the approximate 500 times if I'd been using the old down tube dealies.

Didn't read all the comments closely but after buying a bike with 105 brifters and riding it about about a dozen times I decided it wasn't making my riding anymore enjoyable. Sure I can see why others like it (you don't have to move your hands around as much), and how it is a must in competitive racing.

When I rode integrated shifters for the first time my reaction was; genius - a marvel of engineering and a significant value add to the enjoyment of cycling.

I wonder how many people would ride a mtb with downtube shifters? For the same reason you probably wouldn't do that, is why they are inferior on a road bike.

As long as they are Campagnolo Brifters are great Shimano just breaks


I wonder how many people would ride a mtb with downtube shifters? For the same reason you probably wouldn't do that, is why they are inferior on a road bike.

I use thumb shifters only on mountain bikes and I usually use barend shifters on everything else


Integrated shifters are one of the biggest improvements in the history of cycling... as long as they are campagnolo

Disadvantages:
1) expense
2) complexity
+1000

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://thelazyrando.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/igh-brifter.jpg?w=510&sa=X&ei=Sh-LT5euMaW62gXC8pTaCQ&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGQxZNCkXkCqIMWx3jWDL8d8rx8Qg

Looks like ultraMAN with a long beard

When I rode integrated shifters for the first time my reaction was; genius - a marvel of engineering and a significant value add to the enjoyment of cycling.

Genius was the word I was looking for. Cannot imagine retrograding to something less, unless I started riding single speed.

I am with many here. When I first got back into cycling I started with a Comfort bike with a twist grip shifter and IGH. Then I bought a MTB with Thumb shifters. I was impressed because the shifter was close to the brake. When I decided to drop the hammer on a new road bike I figured I would have to relearn downtube friction shifters. A friend told me my LBS was having a year end sale on a Jamis Ventura and I could gt it at a discount. I rolled in on my MTB and decided to take the bike out for a spin. I started down the block and was impressed with the little lever behind the brake lever than let me shift just with the push of a finger. But I couldn't figure for the life of me how to get the derailleur to shift into a larger rear cog. I thought I was going to have to ride back to the shop and admit I didn't how to shift the thing. Then I noticed the brake lever would move and by pushing it to the side. Wonder of wonders I didn't have to inch the lever forward waiting till it grabbed another gear it just did it with a simple click. I don't miss the friction shifters at all.

This would seem to be a reasonable argument on face vale.

Complexity...for the small portion of the population who have rebuilt a pair of Record shifters, yes. But operational complexity for the 98.635% who haven't and never will? No. PUSH BUTTON. Click? Click. Gear changed.

Indexed shifters of any kind are a PIA to rebuild, be they down tube or brifter. The worst in the world are SRAM R2C "bar end". Campy Record bar end are a close second to get working well. Record brifters aren't bad. Caveat that these are 10 speed.

Expense?

Take a bare frame and price it out. Brake levers, down tube shifters and mounting device for the shifters. Now go price out a set of Tiagra.

You can do the Tiagra cheaper.

Until you crash and damage the brifters. Then you cough up $$$ for replacement brifters.

So when is this discussion going to bring up the advantages vs cost of the new electronic shifters.

Another conspiracy theory. That's one of the goofiest things that I've ever heard.

Agreed. :lol:

I miss my brifters. My bent doesn't have them. It has crappy SRAM twist shifters. They're really noisy and clunky. Folks who don't like brifters are weird.

Another conspiracy theory. That's one of the goofiest things that I've ever heard.
+1

Agreed. :lol:
+10

Until you crash and damage the brifters. Then you cough up $$$ for replacement brifters.+ $$$$$$$

I miss my brifters. My bent doesn't have them. It has crappy SRAM twist shifters. They're really noisy and clunky. Folks who don't like brifters are weird.
I love Brifters as long as they are Campagnolo

So when is this discussion going to bring up the advantages vs cost of the new electronic shifters.

I just ordered an Ultegra Di2 upgrade kit. I doubt that the advantage of electronic over brifters on most bikes could justify the incremental cost. I do like the fact that they automatically trim and should shift much faster and never need a cable replacement. I have absolutely no complaints with my Ultegra 6700 or Shimano 105's on a previous bicycle. I suspect that I am just being a little overly self-indulgent.

I also suspect that the real advantage for electronic shifters can be justified in racing.

Until you crash and damage the brifters. Then you cough up $$$ for replacement brifters.

You consider the price of crash replacement when you buy parts? I don't think that's an issue for most of us. Embrace the new stuff if it can work for you. I think it's great.