Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Single rear cog, double crank????

For those of us who live in really hilly areas but want the weight of a fixed or single gear bike has anyone heard of building a single rear cog with a double crankset/front derailleur bike? I am sorry if this has already been addressed but I could not find it in the search feature.

I am a newbie here and to the idea of fixed or single gear bikes. I guess it l must be regressing to the times I learned to ride a bike, single with a coaster brake but after riding only multi speed bikes I would like to give the single rear cog a try but in the hilly area I live, I would be walking the bike uphill all day long.

In short anyone build a single rear cog bike with a double or triple crankset?

you would need something to keep chain tension..

I did this to my bike with a triple when my cassette wore out. The idea was fun but performace wasn't that great. If you do proceed with this then stick to a double crank just for better chainline. You're not going to save much weight because you the rear derailer to take up the chain slack.

You could use a single speed tensioner to hold the tension when you chain your front. You might have to fiddle with it.

how are you going to keep a straight chain line? chain will fall!

not if he keeps the RD and uses a narrow chain

It's been engineered, so its viable; I wouldn't jump to conclusions about anything in this industry.

White Industries makes this (http://whiteind.com/cranks/singlespeedcranks.html).

http://whiteind.com/images/429_156.jpg

I tried it on my '86 Moots w/ vertical dropouts. Used a Paul's tension-er, 16t 3/32" FW, and a Deore XT Compact Drive Crank, 32/44 with a cheap SRAM 8 spd. chain & XT Ft. DR.

I also used a 68 x 107mm BB to bring the crank in a bit... it worked pretty good!

Alan :thumb:

I did this back in the early 1980s with a double crank and derailleur in front, and a 3-speed hub in back, with a rear derailleur for chain tension. Worked great as a six-speed. Not bad for what was available at the time, but if I were to do it again today, it would be a straight IGH, no derailleurs.

What about a Surly Dingle or whatever?

how are you going to keep a straight chain line? chain will fall!

http://www.ianjuby.org/images/hogwashmeterred.jpg

I did this very thing recently. You can check it out here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/fixed-single-speed/havent-shown-you-guys-my-dinglespeed-yet-271286.html

I have a fellow who plays bike polo and has this setup. Double chainring crank (one to play bike polo other to use on the streets) and it is fine. He doesn't need a chain tensioner like the poster above btw.

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies.

I really appreciate knowing it is not hopeless but also appreciate the advice that there is more to it than simply adding a double crankset to an existing fixed gear bike. I thought I could take a Masi Speciale Fixed and add a narrow double crank and front derailleur with a shifter and climb hills here. Can only imagine the sound of the chain grinding on the frame when I went to change gears or it falling completely off. No doubt it would do that while still on the bike repair stand with the first attempted revolution.

To Aaron_F awesome job and thanks for the details. It is beyond my skillset but I can at least show some skilled bike tech what you have already accomplished and ask for something along those lines.

Fixed gear, 3 ratios, no tensioner needed:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles/hubs/small/S3X.jpg

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/47

I have a fellow who plays bike polo and has this setup. Double chainring crank (one to play bike polo other to use on the streets) and it is fine. He doesn't need a chain tensioner like the poster above btw.
So does he have a front derailleur for changing the crankset gears or does he take links or add links out of or to the chain depending on his activity?

So does he have a front derailleur for changing the crankset gears or does he take links or add links out of or to the chain depending on his activity?

Nope, he changes the front manually and adjusts the tension pulling the rear wheel on the horizontal dropout. He may have fitted a longer dropout to the frame, he works for a framebuilder so it's possible. I'll check his bike out this week and try to take some pics.

Fixed gear, 3 ratios, no tensioner needed:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles/hubs/small/S3X.jpg

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/47

Thank you. I thought about a sealed hub but I was trying to keep weight to a minimum but you know, if I can't pedal a few extra hundred grams or even two pounds of additional weight I should probably just walk wherever I go and give the bike to someone more deserving. It is not like I am Tour de France competitor or triathlete "shaving grams".

Now if I tried to put the sealed hub on my Masi Speciale I guess that would require some special spoke dishing of the rear wheel or I wonder if I could even get it to fit between the dropouts?

So does he have a front derailleur for changing the crankset gears or does he take links or add links out of or to the chain depending on his activity?
If he needs two different gears for different activities (i.e. polo and street riding), then it's pretty straight forward to combine two chainrings with two cogs sized so the chain length remains the same. Loosen the rear wheel a bit, manually shift the chain over to the desired combination and retension.

Fixed gear, 3 ratios, no tensioner needed:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles/hubs/small/S3X.jpg

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/47




if I tried to put the sealed hub on my Masi Speciale I guess that would require some special spoke dishing of the rear wheel or I wonder if I could even get it to fit between the dropouts?

What's the spacing on your frame? The S3X hub comes with axles for 120 and 130mm spacing. I used the 120mm hub in my 126mm frame and just added a 3mm spacer on each side of the axle.

You could also ditch the tensioner, and go straight fixed. have two master links on your chain, and take out a length when your in the smaller gear, put it back on when you gear up.

You'd have a dirty chain more than likely, but it sounds like a simpler answer.

sounds like a pain in the ass and inevitably will have uneven chain wear

I've always wondered what a dual drive setup would be like to ride ? That is a left hand & right hand side same gear inches/ratio on both sides while pedaling. Something like this only both sides freewheel or even both sides fixed ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-IjXMQmodw

This was a similar concept ?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/133215-double-freewheel-double-drive-fixed

...Now if I tried to put the sealed hub on my Masi Speciale ...

Isn't that a steel frame?

Man, I think you are over-thinking this. Just ride your road bike.

Think about what you are asking. You want to be able to switch gear ratios on your single speed or fixed gear bike. Once you get this manual system (like get off the bike, get a wrench out, change the gear) or rudimentary system (only a few gear ratio options) you will immediately want an improvement...to something like your road bike. Sooo...just ride your road bike. :)

The only other option is to make a lightweight fixed gear (probably from a frame that is not steel) and gear it for the hills and you'll have to spin on the flats.

In terms of basic transportation, fixed gear / single speed bikes are like skateboards in that they are only practical in relatively flat cities.


EDIT:
And as far as weight is concerned, you can certainly get a road bike to be the same weight or less than your steel Masi.

In terms of basic transportation, fixed gear / single speed bikes are like skateboards in that they are only practical in relatively flat cities.The few intracoastal bridges I have to cross are more hill than I want to encounter in a ride. Flat land is good.

You guys need to chill.

I've deleted some posts. Keep it up and I'll start swinging the velvet hammer.

http://i.imgur.com/95lqs.gif

looks like i missed some good fun last nite, maybe it is time for me to change-up my visiting hours here? anyway, don't want carleton swinging his velvet hammer so am keeping it chill, but...

The few intracoastal bridges I have to cross are more hill than I want to encounter in a ride. Flat land is good.
i live in so fla too & ride my fg bike, which is set-up at the moment with pretty big gearinches, all over dade, broward & pbc, & also ride it over every intracoastal causeway & bridge. the flat land here is one of the many pleasures in this locale (don't need no stinkin gears here :thumb:) yet i go out of my way to ride over those bridges just to feel like i can still get up a hill.
why are you riding singlespeed?
unless you are a hard-core roadie or you haul a ton of crap with you, if you think you need more than 1 gear to ride around miami...you really need to just get yourself some kind of multi-gear bike & stop looking for inefficient ways to graft more gears onto your ss bike.
op has a bit of an excuse, stated he is in a hilly area. but i still wonder why is he so hot for a fg/ss bike if he can't get around his town on 1 gear?

One method, constantly overlooked, is a Schumplf internal 2-speed drive. http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm

"The Schlumpf drive is an ultra thin planetary gearing system located at the right end of the bottom bracket, between bottom bracket and right crankarm.

Installation of a Schlumpf drive hardly changes neither position of the chain nor position of the crankarms.

To activate a Schlumpf drive, there is no need for cables, derailleurs and the like.
Gears are changed by a simple push on a button, located at the end of the axle.

Push on the right side to shift up or down (depending which drive you use), push on the left side to shift back into direct drive."

cough road bike cough

http://www.velosolo.co.uk/pictures/tc4a.jpg

you guys need to chill.

I've deleted some posts. Keep it up and i'll start swinging the velvet hammer.

http://i.imgur.com/95lqs.gif

how does someone come in here and alter comments? My comment was altered, edited, whatever, into some s---ss remark. Does the system allow anyone to edit a comment and repost it?

Thanks Soil_Sampler...I like that better than my original idea of a single cog and double crank. Looks good. How does one change the gears? Is there still a rear derailleur or is it done manually?

One method, constantly overlooked, is a Schumplf internal 2-speed drive. http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm

"The Schlumpf drive is an ultra thin planetary gearing system located at the right end of the bottom bracket, between bottom bracket and right crankarm.

Installation of a Schlumpf drive hardly changes neither position of the chain nor position of the crankarms.

To activate a Schlumpf drive, there is no need for cables, derailleurs and the like.
Gears are changed by a simple push on a button, located at the end of the axle.

Push on the right side to shift up or down (depending which drive you use), push on the left side to shift back into direct drive."

I like it. Thanks. Looks like there are more options than I imagined there would be.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYtSaywZvMqy521_sW31sNVWk4mvFur5t_nC3N4aQLL4EU4NUwEKxkzw (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thinkmonahan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/TropicLightning2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.thinkmonahan.com/blog/%3Fattachment_id%3D487&usg=__1Y-LvMiRNa0zKcOj7ZBR95lL8-Q=&h=184&w=181&sz=9&hl=en&start=52&zoom=1&tbnid=6XZTg0Z2pW9Y7M:&tbnh=102&tbnw=100&ei=W7uMT82hGuWhiALX6tHBCA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtropic%2Blightning%26start%3D42%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1)

how does someone come in here and alter comments? My comment was altered, edited, whatever, into some s---ss remark. Does the system allow anyone to edit a comment and repost it?

Pay attention to the text box when you "Reply With Quote" to a post. You can type anything in there:


Oh, now I get it!

It doesn't edit your original comment which is untouched earlier in the thread. Most of the time people take advantage of this in order to make jokes.

Pay attention to the text box when you "Reply With Quote" to a post. You can type anything in there:



It doesn't edit your original comment which is untouched earlier in the thread. Most of the time people take advantage of this in order to make jokes.

Jokes, huh? Okay, I lost my sense of humor somehere between multiple deployments and being back in the Pacific Northwest where it rains non-stop and we are lucky to get three consecutive months of dry weather cycling.

If only there was some kind of technology allowing an SS/FG rider to have a small cog on one side of the wheel and a large cog on the other, so that he can flip the wheel around for going up and down hills.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/Noel3006/lomdy52-gearchange.jpg

If only there was some kind of technology allowing an SS/FG rider to have a small cog on one side of the wheel and a large cog on the other, so that he can flip the wheel around for going up and down hills.


That is my favorite, as I do that pretty much every day I bike to the velodrome (track gearing is much different than street gearing).

Still, a road bike is the best option if you want to switch gears. You are definitely not going to run fixed gear and be able to change gears while riding (unless you have the internally geared hub above). Interesting options though.


I did this very thing recently. You can check it out here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/fixed-single-speed/havent-shown-you-guys-my-dinglespeed-yet-271286.html

Aaron, nice way to revive a bike!

Thanks Soil_Sampler...I like that better than my original idea of a single cog and double crank.
Looks good.
How does one change the gears?
Is there still a rear derailleur or is it done manually?

manually.

are lucky to get three consecutive months of dry weather cycling.


Sounds like you need...dun dun dun.. a velomobile! :-)

I did this very thing recently. You can check it out here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/fixed-single-speed/havent-shown-you-guys-my-dinglespeed-yet-271286.html

Where'd you get this bike computer? I've been looking all over for a Cateye in red:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6738327643_de109d05cf_b.jpg

not gonna read the rest of this thread.
just saying i saw a guy at hellyer on his tt converted bike, double crank front, one rear track cog. with an extra chain lengthed for the other ring ziptied to his seatstay. he says he switches between training on the hard ring for flats and training for spinning on hillies. just sayn again and again. JUST SAYING. STOP. coolstory.

That's a simple solution, but wouldn't the chain line be off on both rings?

Sure. Just like it's off in pretty much every gear you use on a road bike. It generally doesn't matter much, unless you're using a 1/8" chain and want a perfectly quiet bike.

And FWIW, something similar was being done in the late 19th century. But they used chains with manually detachable links so that they didn't have to carry around chain tools.

Speaking only for myself, by the time I'm changing chains during a ride, I'm just getting a derailleur.

That's a simple solution...

manually changing gears by hand is a simple solution??

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

seriously - single cog in front, single cog in rear, use a Schlumpf 2 speed drive inside the front crank, kick/tap the crank stem with your foot/heel when you want to change gears.

Now that is simple!

I did not realize there were so many options and drawbacks to what I thought would be a simple option. Everyone had great suggestions and I really appreciate it.

The Steintrike fairing is really interesting. I heard at a recent bike show in Portland that full bodied bikes are illegal here but I can't imagine why? Someone like the cops would mistake it for an unlicensed car driving in the bike lane? Yeh, maybe around here they would.

Really liked the photos showing exactly what would take a thousand words to explain. It is still raining here in the Pacific Northwest and could be for the next month and a half or two but that gives me time to try to put something together. Thanks again to all.

seriously - single cog in front, single cog in rear, use a Schlumpf 2 speed drive inside the front crank, kick/tap the crank stem with your foot/heel when you want to change gears.

Now that is simple!

S3X is cheaper, and you get three ratios.

S3X is cheaper, and you get three ratios.

link please! got me curious. :)

...I heard at a recent bike show in Portland that full bodied bikes are illegal here but I can't imagine why?

Someone is pulling the wool over your eyes with their own ignorance or lack of the ability to *check the facts*. The ROAM cross-country velomobile (http://web.mac.com/josef.janning/Roll_over_America/Home.html) tour last year *started* in Portland. The Left Coast Velomobile Gathering (http://lcvmg.com) in 2010 was hosted in Portland.

Now, that said, they are illegal to drive on highways and roads not approved for cycling - but then again, that is true everywhere else in the world.

Good luck with your project! And let us know how it goes.

[QUOTE=digitalmouse;14190214]Someone is pulling the wool over your eyes with their own ignorance or lack of the ability to *check the facts*. The ROAM cross-country velomobile (http://web.mac.com/josef.janning/Roll_over_America/Home.html) tour last year *started* in Portland. The Left Coast Velomobile Gathering (http://lcvmg.com) in 2010 was hosted in Portland.

In fact I heard it from a vendor at the Portland Bike Show this year. The fabric fairings are legal to use as long as your head protrudes above the fairing like the Hase fairings but hard full bodied fairings are not legal.

S3X is cheaper, and you get three ratios.


link please! got me curious. :)

Read on: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/47

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles/hubs/small/S3X.jpg