Advocacy & Safety - Safe Spot to Stop

Here is an 18 second video; "Bike Stopping at Red Light". I have given this video a Creative Commons License, so that others may use it.

Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47wumNj4njo

Embedded Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47wumNj4njo

What this video shows is a protected median, or a median with a curb-cut through it.

So my Question is "how do you like the protection given to the Cyclist by the median? I thought it worked out well, although there is only room for one bike.

Would this be a good feature for other Bike Lanes to have?

I've heard motorists &*%$#ing and moaning that Cyclists go through red lights a lot.

Would Cyclists be more inclined to stop if they had a concrete protected spot to do so?

I kind of feel that a stopped bicycle is a "sitting duck", more vulnerable to right-hooks, or just plain being run over.

The curb cut through this median was probably meant for wheelchairs, it was installed only months ago. The intersection has a rather odd layout, so I don't know if this could be done easily, in other places.

What do you all think?

I don't know that I believe that most cyclists who run red lights do so because they don't feel safe. I think they do it because they can get away with it.

Total misuse of the cutout. Cyclist should have stayed on main street, unless they were walking their bike. This is more dangerous for a cyclist for all the sidewalk biking reasons that have been enumerated a million times.

Ummm, this cut out is clearly for pedestrians.

I don't know that I believe that most cyclists who run red lights do so because they don't feel safe. I think they do it because they can get away with it.

No. They don't do it because they can get away with it. They do it because they don't want to stop and feel it's unnecessary to stop at that point under those conditions. Not being able to get away with it might make someone stop doing it, but it wouldn't change their motive for doing it in the first place.

Total misuse of the cutout. Cyclist should have stayed on main street, unless they were walking their bike. This is more dangerous for a cyclist for all the sidewalk biking reasons that have been enumerated a million times.

Well, I did it anyway, and I'm sure I can "get away with it". It seems like the safest place to stop. The actual stop line was way back, maybe 45 or 50 feet behind where I stopped, and I chose not to stop there because there is no sight-line to see traffic coming from the left, and because I could've gotten hit from behind while I was stopped.
Also, the curb allows one to put a foot down more comfortably.

I would give one caution: The end of the Median, to the immediate left of my stopping point, is where the village puts up a Christmas Tree every holiday season. If I was riding in December, then I would be obstructed from view by the Christmas Tree. But right now there are flowers, and none are over 35 centimeters tall.

Had a pedestrian been there, I would've made a right-on-red instead.

The main reason I would stop here is the curb, so I can put a foot (either foot) down, and secondarily, I can not see traffic coming from the left if I'm behind the stop-line.

The crosswalk behind the median barrier is not part of any bikelane. You rolled past the stop line already, why not stop by the orange cones on the intersection side of the median?

If you're worried about being run into from behind at a stopline, here's a tip:
A strategy used by many riders in cities (albeit technically illegal, but no more so than your maneuver) is to stop ahead of the stopline in the space between the stop line and the crosswalk. some cities provide that space ahead of stop lines for bikes to use.

Putting yourself in a crosswalk moved away from traffic is going to make it MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to move back to the normal travel lane and increases your chance of getting overlooked as you start up once the light turns green.

The curb cut through this median was probably meant for wheelchairs, it was installed only months ago. The intersection has a rather odd layout, so I don't know if this could be done easily, in other places.

What do you all think?

Looks like a great way to get right-hooked or hit from behind when you merge back into traffic. It's safer to be in a lane where drivers are looking for other cars and therefore more likely to see you, and safer to ride in a straight line instead of weaving in and out of a lane.

Total misuse of the cutout. Cyclist should have stayed on main street, unless they were walking their bike. This is more dangerous for a cyclist for all the sidewalk biking reasons that have been enumerated a million times.

+1

Please note, this was a leisurely ride, I was in no big hurry. I did stop. And I waited to make sure I didn't get right-hooked on starting.The median cutout also has a nice amount of shade, from the adjacent trees. I could have blown the red light, without slowing down.

Yes, those road cones were there. You could get right-hooked at that spot. This is the biggest intersection in Locust Valley NY 11560.

And this may be meant for pedestrians, or wheelchairs, but what I asked, or meant to ask, is would this be a nice feature for a Protected Bike Lane? Protected Bike Lanes are something we may overlook and think we don't need, but there are also women, children and the elderly who may like to ride bicycles too.

I would support adding a median curb cut like this to a protected bike lane scheme. Or we could go on debating Bike Lanes vs Protected Bike Lanes forever, here in the A&S forum...

And yes, again, those road cones were there, on account someone almost got right-hooked and complained. The drivers are stupid. Thanks for watching the video.

someone almost got right hooked? When stopped at the light next to the curb?

Weaving into a protected median crosswalk in the shade, then trying to reenter the traffic flow is likely going to increase the chances of getting right hooked at that intersection.

I would support adding a median curb cut like this to a protected bike lane scheme..
Even ardent separated lane proponents know this is a design for maiming cyclists.

I wouldn't even consider it, 1. Lose my place in line and would have to fight my way back into traffic. 2. Out of the focal point of motorists traveling along the original street of travel. 3. More susceptible to being hit by right turning motorists.

Hotbike, I think your bicyle design skills far outweigh your bike infrastructure design thoughts. any current new designs especially in the safety area.

I would just stop at the stop line and then probably do what was mentioned above, and roll into the cross walk assuming there was no one crossing to put me forward a bit. You can see the stop line for the cross traffic at that point, so if there was another car at the light you could see them come to a stop. I'd take the lane and slowly move across the intersection making sure no one ran the cross light. This would make it difficult to be right hooked.

As far as putting your foot down. Why don't you just slide off the seat and stand over your top tube? I do that and leave one foot on the pedal. I push myself back up onto the seat with that pedal which also gets me started.

Its obviously a pedestrian facility. Get off and walk.

It all comes down to situational awareness. You could run the red light if you knew there was no one coming.

And yeah, someones gonna get right hooked there, with or without the median cut through.

if the light was green, more likely to occur to a rider moving into and out of the median crosswalk.

if the light was red, hardly likely if the rider advances past the stop line into the buffered space close to the planter.

when the light turned green again, more likely to happen to a rider moving out of the crosswalk versus a rider stopping at the travel lane curb.

I wouldn't even consider it, 1. Lose my place in line and would have to fight my way back into traffic. 2. Out of the focal point of motorists traveling along the original street of travel. 3. More susceptible to being hit by right turning motorists.
This mirrors my thoughts as well.

Sit and wait at the stop line. I've never felt like a sitting duck waiting for that light to turn green. Motorists see the red light, slow down, see me, stop behind me. I do this many times daily. I have at least six or seven stop lights I wait at on a regular basis.

Sit and wait at the stop line. I've never felt like a sitting duck waiting for that light to turn green. Motorists see the red light, slow down, see me, stop behind me. I do this many times daily. I have at least six or seven stop lights I wait at on a regular basis.
Realitystrikes.

I waited at that light again today, but this time I waited behind a line of cars and trucks. Everything went smoothly.

But as for the video, I had every intention of waiting for right-turning cars to pass before crossing the road. I stopped recording, but I did make it through before the light went red again. I have limited faith in Vehicular Cycling. Sometimes, I just want to bail and wait in a pedestrian zone until treaffic clears.

But I thank you all for your comments. I now realize that the message I was trying to send by making the video , is not clear. That's the whole reason I posted the vid here and asked for your comments.

Now one other thing, I have just done a Google Maps search "Birch Hill Road, Locust Valley, NY", and the street view shows the scene before the curb cut was built! You could try the search yourself. I was just testing the new curb-cut to see how it would work out.

Let's not forget that this was done with a Bike Cam on the bike, and I want motorists to see that I have a camera.

And at the start of the video, you can also see that the light had just turned yellow, and then red. It was intended to be a fast downhill video.

But I will try to maitain a more vehicular style of riding from now on. You all seem to be in favor of VC. I had intended to use this wheelchair ramp to clear the way for motorists, as a coutesy. But you are all correct, and Vehiculat Cycling has nothing to do with courtesy. I should do more to make motorists wait their turn. Thanks for your input.

Looks like a great way to get right-hooked or hit from behind when you merge back into traffic. It's safer to be in a lane where drivers are looking for other cars and therefore more likely to see you, and safer to ride in a straight line instead of weaving in and out of a lane.

Total agreement. Besides, that cutout is clearly for pedestrians.

-G

I waited at that light again today, but this time I waited behind a line of cars and trucks. Everything went smoothly.

But as for the video, I had every intention of waiting for right-turning cars to pass before crossing the road. I stopped recording, but I did make it through before the light went red again. I have limited faith in Vehicular Cycling. Sometimes, I just want to bail and wait in a pedestrian zone until treaffic clears.

But I thank you all for your comments. I now realize that the message I was trying to send by making the video , is not clear. That's the whole reason I posted the vid here and asked for your comments.

Now one other thing, I have just done a Google Maps search "Birch Hill Road, Locust Valley, NY", and the street view shows the scene before the curb cut was built! You could try the search yourself. I was just testing the new curb-cut to see how it would work out.

Let's not forget that this was done with a Bike Cam on the bike, and I want motorists to see that I have a camera.

And at the start of the video, you can also see that the light had just turned yellow, and then red. It was intended to be a fast downhill video.

But I will try to maitain a more vehicular style of riding from now on. You all seem to be in favor of VC. I had intended to use this wheelchair ramp to clear the way for motorists, as a coutesy. But you are all correct, and Vehiculat Cycling has nothing to do with courtesy. I should do more to make motorists wait their turn. Thanks for your input.
Well I don't know, I'm not trying to be all 'VC' or anything. I just feel that, in this case, the safest and most efficient method through this intersection is just to wait with the cars. Proper lane positioning should minimize the danger of being right-hooked, or just run over from behind.

I was in no big rush. I couldn't care less if I had to wait for another car or two. Actually, I was about fifty feet ahead of the stop-line, so I had a head start over the cars behind me.

I guess I had in mind a "Safe Spot to Stop", without keeping in mind that it has to be a safe place to pull out of.

But really, the whole road layout was built before cars were even invented. The main road through this town dates back to around 1680. Horses? They were still using ox-carts IIRC.

If I hadn't stopped there, I would have made a right-on-red, into the one-way whatchamacallit . That's what I used to do before the curb cut was installed. Which I noted in my last post , was rather recent. Then, heck, if the train is coming, the gates come down and block traffic.

I want to add one other note, I don't race, I have more or less a Touring Bike- it's a Trek 720 Hybrid with full Panniers, it does Not have drop-bars, but straight, like a MTB.

I may pull onto a wheelchair ramp from time to time to get out of traffic. It is always a judgement call , based mainly on what I see in my rear-view mirror. I have never been ticketed for riding on the sidewalk, and I always yield to pedestrians. To use a railroad metaphor, I pull into the siding to let mainline traffic go by.

I decided it was worth a do-over. This time, I wait behind the line of cars, and then sail through the intersection in question:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfKLRHHy36U

that was nice.

i may have stayed a bit more left earlier so the driver in the black suv would see me in their side view mirror so they would not think i would be as likely to pass on right. also gets one a better line of sight of oncoming traffic.

Bottom line... narrow lanes, slow traffic, somewhat quiet tree lined streets, what's not to like?

The actual stop line was way back, maybe 45 or 50 feet behind where I stopped, and I chose not to stop there because there is no sight-line to see traffic coming from the left, and because I could've gotten hit from behind while I was stopped.

.

You ran the red light. I've never felt particularly at risk stopping in the lane at lights.