Advocacy & Safety - Teenager is killed in bike-truck crash - Example of why cyclists are safer on roads

Teenager is killed in bike-truck crash

http://tinyurl.com/5vugv

Sad but just another example of why sidewalks are not safer for cyclists. My favorite quote was the end, O'Fallon Police Capt. Mike Skeen said, "As far as I can see, there is probably no blame on the driver; I don't think either one saw the other one until the last minute, and it was just too late for everybody to stop."

Truck 1, Cyclist (ped) 0

I state ped because he wasn't on the road where he should have been. Also nowhere do they recommend cyclists to get on the road and to stay off the sidewalks. Cars rule and everyone else stay off the sidewalks and the streets!

Sad...

Keep Cycling!

kb0tnv

that's really sad. i'm just starting out, and i ride on the sidewalk a lot when i commute around....it's kinda hard in the suburbs because there's NO shoulder to busy streets and drivers can be pretty rude. you're right, though, cars probably don't look for bikes on sidewalks...but i don't blame the kid for not riding on the street because cars can be intimidating especially when you don't know what kind of dummies are driving them. got any tips to riding with traffic? it's probably just something i'll get with experience.

miyoo,
google "John Forester" or "vehicular cycling" and read some of those sites. I think that I speak for most forum members in strongly recommending that you do not ride on the sidewalk. In seems safer, but isn't!

Take the entire lane if you need to (no shoulders) but do NOT ride on sidewalk.

--J

Miyoo: in a nutshell: take the lane when you need to. Obey traffic signs and lights. Signal clearly. Ride like a vehicle and you get treated like a vehicle.

It's hard work for a newbie not to be intimidated into the gutter or off the road but play tough, hold your ground and you'll be surprised how smoothly things go.

Yes it can be tough riding on the road and easier to "stay out of the way" by riding on the sideWALK. But you can ride on the road with confidence. It takes time, education and skill. You may even try finding a better route. If not then try riding it when there is less traffic to build experience and confidence. Also if you can find a League of American Bicyclists Road I coarse in your area take it. I am scheduled for mine in March. You can never have enough education or experience. The more time and experience you get the less likelyhood you will ever have to deal with a major crash. I ride on some narrow roads and make sure that when it is too narrow for a car to pass me to take the whole lane. Most cars just follow. I will move over when I know they can pass me safely. Some honk but rarely. Of course they don't get a clue or don't think I should be there. They don't understand that it safer for me to be in front of them than for them to be at my side where they will most likely either A.) sideswip me or B.) turn into me. That is why I believe we need to teach cycling education and motor education at the same time in schools. Another suggestion is to ride your area on a Saturday and have someone follow you in a vehicle. Or even try riding it with a more experienced cyclist.

Keep Cycling!

I take my entire damn lane. Why? because if you don't, people will pass you in the same lane making it even MORE dangerous. About the only times I don't take my lane is if there is a wide shoulder (on say, a fast road?) and if I can safely stick to the side and be passed.

I taught my 7 year old niece to ride a bicycle last month. She rides on the sidewalk and dismounts to cross streets. I told her to be very careful about cars pulling out of driveways. Should she be riding in the street?

Most cyclists who get killed by cars are riding in the street. A lot of motorists and passengers are killed in accidents in the street every day. Streets are dangerous, sidewalks and driveways are less dangerous. If you want to believe sidewalks are more dangerous, go ahead. Just be careful where ever you ride. I ride in the street but not because it is safer. For recreational cycling I prefer single track trail, fire road or bike path. Yes, I prefer to ride where cars aren't allowed.

I have been a bike messenger for 18yrs, and I don't own a functioning car. I use a bicycle for work and any time I need to go some where. I'm not telling anybody to ride on the sidewalk, but to hold up this poor child as an example of how not to ride seems cold hearted and the conclusion that riding on the sidewalk is more dangerous is just plain wrong. Shame on you!

Streets are dangerous, sidewalks and driveways are less dangerous. If you want to believe sidewalks are more dangerous, go ahead.

from: http://bikesense.bc.ca/ch4.htm

Several studies have proven that cyclists on sidewalks face a far greater collision risk than cyclists on the roadway. The main danger points are driveways and street crossings where sidewalk cyclists surprise motorists and pedestrians by appearing from unexpected directions.

from: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/accident.htm

How to Avoid Traffic Accidents...there are five general ways to avoid traffic accidents: 1) obey the traffic laws,...Group II crashes (54.3%) are all intersection collisions...There are four kinds of collisions in which the motor vehicle was turning.. The solutions for these accidents are 1) to not bicycle on the sidewalk,

from: http://bikesense.bc.ca/ch4.htm

Several studies have proven that cyclists on sidewalks face a far greater collision risk than cyclists on the roadway. The main danger points are driveways and street crossings where sidewalk cyclists surprise motorists and pedestrians by appearing from unexpected directions.

from: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/accident.htm

How to Avoid Traffic Accidents...there are five general ways to avoid traffic accidents: 1) obey the traffic laws,...Group II crashes (54.3%) are all intersection collisions...There are four kinds of collisions in which the motor vehicle was turning.. The solutions for these accidents are 1) to not bicycle on the sidewalk,

I only asked one question in my post. Is this the answer? Clarify.

Clarify.

With proper guidance, supervision, on an appropriate street, she can learn skills to be safe just as we all do. Don't throw her out somewhere she can't handle. Just because she can "balance" doesn't mean she can ride a bike. It's good that you taught her to dismount when crossing an intersection. Maybe you should also have her do the same at driveways if you insist on her riding on sidewalks, since they are intersections too.

I guess it is important for advocates of cyclists' right to the road to play up sidewalks as a dangerous alternative.

Accidents are studied to see the causes that led to them and to avoid future collisions.

Sidewalk riding results in many collisions. That's why it is not recommended.

It's pretty simple.

7 year old should ride in the street or wait until she is grown up to ride a bike? She goes about as fast as a jogger, she already knows how to walk on a sidewalk safely. I think she can bike like a pedestrian, looking out for cars in driveways, walking bike across the street, etc. I think it is safer that way.

You link to Ken Kifer. He was a great advocate of safe riding in traffic, but he did get run over by a car.

Advocates for bikers' right to the road want to make sidewalk riding sound like a dangerous alternative. People with common sense may dismiss your entire argument when they hear this point. When advocating for cyclists please stay off the sidewalk. Don't even go there, it makes you look like a kook.

7 year old should ride in the street or wait until she is grown up to ride a bike?


Is she an adult at 7? Can she make decisions like an adult? I mentioned a compromise for sidewalk riding (if she gets off the bike at all driveways and intersections) and mentioned supervised riding (would you let a 7 year old go down the street alone anyway?) but hey, it's a free world. I'm sure she isn't going to hurt anyone (except for herself).



You link to Ken Kifer. He was a great advocate of safe riding in traffic, but he did get run over by a car.

Oh dear. I don't think you want to say that. Ken was killed by a drunk driver who came from the other side of the street. Are you saying he would not have been killed had he been riding on the sidewalk?



Advocates for bikers' right to the road want to make sidewalk riding sound like a dangerous alternative.

It's been the conclusion of accident investigations that sidewalk riding sounding like a dangerous alternative, is exactly that.



People with common sense may dismiss your entire argument when they hear this point. When advocating for cyclists please stay off the sidewalk. Don't even go there, it makes you look like a kook.

If your experiance with people shows my links are the opinions of kooks, I guess that's the way you see things but I'm still riding, unlike the unfortunate fellow in the story at the top of this thread who might have been with the people's thoughts who dismiss my entire argument that want to make sidewalk riding sound like a dangerous alternative and isn't riding anymore.

I taught my children to ride on the streets when they were 4 yrs old, because that is the way to travel by bike. I rode behind them so I could watch how they were riding and tell them what to do, and what to watch for. I also rode further out from the edge of the road, so passing cars wouldn't go too close to them. It took a while for them to learn how to look behind for the traffic and maintain a straight line, and about who has to yield when, but I didnt let them out by themselves until they knew how to handle the traffic on the neighborhood streets.

I sometimes ride on sidewalks, but I do so very cautiously because I know motorists and peds are not expecting a bike in that area. Cars turning into driveways look for people going at walking pace on the sidewalks.

thanks for the suggesstions...since i was afraid of getting sidewiped it's good to know i can take up the WHOLE lane if i have to! i actually wasn't even sure if that was legal... seriously, there aren't many other cyclists in my town (chicago suburbs/nw IN)and i think i just see occasional sidewalk cyclist because they've been drinking. it would be nice to have someone to ride with, but i'll get used to the street on my own. as far as the sidewalks--they're pretty bumpy and icy anyway...it sounds stupid but last time i ended up having to go across A LOT of grass (on my road bike) because it ended really abruptly.

thanks for the suggesstions...since i was afraid of getting sidewiped it's good to know i can take up the WHOLE lane if i have to! i actually wasn't even sure if that was legal

Where I live, in most instances if I were to dare to take the whole lane, I would be patching potholes with my torso. There is absolutely no question about it. I ride where it's safe for me to ride. Sometimes that means riding where it's not legal. I don't need to be a legal-rider in a casket. :(

miyooo: ride in the street, it's safer

As for 7 year olds riding their bikes in the street, correct me if I'm wrong but if we all consider ourselves as "cars" on the road, doesn't that also imply we need to have a driver's license? How can any child without a driver's license legally be on the road?

I hate to say it but 2 things could've happened.

1. The truck was pulling in AFTER the kid entered its path and proceeded to run the kid over with the front of the truck, he went under, the back tires ran him over again, and he died. Or the kid and truck both reached the same space at the same time, then the kid fell over, and the truck kept turning, running over the kid, THEN stopped. In this case, it's the driver's fault for a) not looking to see if there was a fast moving vehicle on the sidewalk before making the turn and b) not stopping immediately after the initial impact.

2. The truck was pulling in BEFORE the kid slammed into it. In which case, the kid either couldn't stop in time or wasn't looking and slammed into the middle of the truck and went under the back wheel, in that case, it really isn't the driver's fault. I was drafting too close once and the car in front of me slammed on the brakes. I ran up over the back of a minivan, ripped the bumper off, and dented the rear door, then I kept going. Hit n' run on a bike. Not proud of it.

Fortunately, most of my immediate neighborhood is sidewalk-free, so my boys grew up having to know how to ride their bikes in the street. However, I did restrict them to slower streets with lots of pedestrian and bicycle traffic until they got a bit older. I don't advocate putting 4-year-old bicyclists in the streets, but teenagers are generally safer in the street than on the sidewalk, just as adults are.

If you are on a sidewalk, you should be walking. Period. Not just because it's safer for YOU, but because you are (unless you are say, under 16 or so) capable of going many times the speed of pedestrians. You DO have the option, if you don't feel safe riding in the street for a section, of getting OFF of your bike and walking it.

Sidewalks are for walking.

For vacation, I am visiting/riding in Raliegh NC. It is sooo yuppie suburb cliche. No white line, just curb and sidewalks connecting up to the zillions of malls and paths.

Most cyclists who get killed by cars are riding in the street
Where are the cars?
I am familiar with the ordinances and such restricting sidewalk use, but I believe as a whole for safe city riding one has to look at the full equation. To interfere with traffic in a rush hour scenario is a recipe for disaster, and to ride sidewalks airheadedly is as well. One must be fully aware at all times when there are cars about. They WILL cut in front for turns if you let them. They WILL NOT see you from a sidewalk usually. So, if you are on a sidewalk, assume you are in a round of frogger, don't expect them to stop or care.
In most cases I will take to the blacktop without reserve, but here the soccer-mom-SUV-cell phone using drivers are another world. As such, I will drive however keeps me out from under their bumpers. That means using any combination of the options in a sane manner.

Understood, but I'm still unclear as to the LAW regarding biking on the street without a driver's license. As I said above, if a cyclist is considered a car in the eyes of the law, then it's easy to conclude that you need to be of driving age to ride your bike on the street.

true? false?

Understood, but I'm still unclear as to the LAW regarding biking on the street without a driver's license.

Generally speaking, licences are required for things that have a serious potential to harm others. Cars do, bikes don't. You are still required to follow traffic law though, and can be ticketed by the police if you don't.

Okay, that makes sense but isn't a license required to get moving violation ticket?

I have indeed been pulled over by certain bored cops. All they need is some way of proof of ID. I thought about that, but I was riding with my bf and we got pulle over as a pair and he didnt have his. They took his phone number, address, all that junk.
On the positive, the rules in PA say that no Cyclist violation penalty can excede 10 bucks.

I have indeed been pulled over by certain bored cops. All they need is some way of proof of ID. I thought about that, but I was riding with my bf and we got pulle over as a pair and he didnt have his. They took his phone number, address, all that junk.
On the positive, the rules in PA say that no Cyclist violation penalty can excede 10 bucks.

10 bucks... Round here in NYC, they beat you over the head, mace you, confiscate your bike, then put you in a room full of drug addicts and thieves.

Oy vey,
I'll think twice about riding there! :eek:

Okay, that makes sense but isn't a license required to get moving violation ticket?

Nope. You just need to provide identity (this can be supplied by just your word - it'll be checked so if you're not truthful, or there is some kind of problem, be ready for more problems).

Oy vey,
I'll think twice about riding there! :eek:

Don't worry, only on the last friday of every month. ;)

Actually its the non-wheeled New Yorkers that worry me more. After all, sitting on a yellow mobile thing that is worth 1500 bucks is appealing to many.

Is she an adult at 7? Can she make decisions like an adult? I mentioned a compromise for sidewalk riding (if she gets off the bike at all driveways and intersections) and mentioned supervised riding (would you let a 7 year old go down the street alone anyway?) but hey, it's a free world. I'm sure she isn't going to hurt anyone (except for herself).
I think that is a reasonable solution and the safest course of action. Your callus disregard for my niece's well-being leaves me a bit cold though.



Oh dear. I don't think you want to say that. Ken was killed by a drunk driver who came from the other side of the street. Are you saying he would not have been killed had he been riding on the sidewalk?
I'm only saying he was engaged in an activity that has significant risks that cannot always be avoided.



It's been the conclusion of accident investigations that sidewalk riding sounding like a dangerous alternative, is exactly that.
Show me one instance of some one killed riding on the SIDEWALK, not intersection which is street.



If your experiance with people shows my links are the opinions of kooks, I guess that's the way you see things but I'm still riding, unlike the unfortunate fellow in the story at the top of this thread who might have been with the people's thoughts who dismiss my entire argument that want to make sidewalk riding sound like a dangerous alternative and isn't riding anymore.

Didn't mean to say you're a kook. Just that you maybe sound like a kook if you are saying the street is a safer enviroment than a sidewalk for ANY activity. I think the sidewalk should be for WALKING only but OK for small children to ride there if they aren't mature enough to safely ride in street. I think an experienced rider like yourself could have avoided this accident. The bikers who ride on sidewalks are younger, less experienced wheelmen than you or I so the statistics may be misleading. Still I think the dangerous part is at the crossings which is crossing a STREET. You might have to cross like a pedestrian, stop, look both ways, cross when no cars are present.

We will have to agree to disagree, I do agree with your points about needing to take additional care when crossing street from the sidewalk where cars won't see you as easily, but pedestrians cross in crosswalks all the time with usually no problems. The risks of crossing the street are managable. I also agree that bikes have RIGHT to and SHOULD be operated as vehicles in the street. I'm sorry I'm wasting both of our time to make an unimportant point that people don't get hit by cars on the sidewalk. We can leave it at that or you can show me a news report of an experienced cyclist killed while riding on the sidewalk. I think you will be hard pressed to find an example of this happening.

Bicycles shouldn't be on the sidewalk because they may endanger pedestrians and for other reasons. The relative safety of the rider is not at all important in a discussion about riding on the sidewalk, but you ARE less at risk of being hit by a CAR on the SIDEWALK.

I think that is a reasonable solution and the safest course of action. Your callus disregard for my niece's well-being leaves me a bit cold though.

I'm glad you feel that's a reasonable solution, and I have your neices well being in mind when I mention that the example of what happened to the teen at the top of the post behavior, leading to his death, could be prevented by not repeating the same behavior. It was your position to continue that same behavior, to which I'm not going to tell you what to do, but believe you're putting her in danger.



I'm only saying he was engaged in an activity that has significant risks that cannot always be avoided.

But by saying, he was a great advocate of safe riding in traffic, but he did get run over by a car, you are inferring it is less safe riding in traffic. Nothing is 100% safe, but it is proven that, cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles.



Show me one instance of some one killed riding on the SIDEWALK, not intersection which is street.

As stated on an earlier post, the main danger points are driveways and street crossings where sidewalk cyclists surprise motorists and pedestrians by appearing from unexpected directions. That's the greater problem.



Didn't mean to say you're a kook. Just that you maybe sound like a kook if you are saying the street is a safer enviroment than a sidewalk for ANY activity. I think the sidewalk should be for WALKING only but OK for small children to ride there if they aren't mature enough to safely ride in street. I think an experienced rider like yourself could have avoided this accident. The bikers who ride on sidewalks are younger, less experienced wheelmen than you or I so the statistics may be misleading. Still I think the dangerous part is at the crossings which is crossing a STREET. You might have to cross like a pedestrian, stop, look both ways, cross when no cars are present.

Pay the same attention to driveways as well.



We will have to agree to disagree, I do agree with your points about needing to take additional care when crossing street from the sidewalk where cars won't see you as easily, but pedestrians cross in crosswalks all the time with usually no problems.


We aren't that far apart really. I'm just saying pay attention to driveways as well.




or you can show me a news report of an experienced cyclist killed while riding on the sidewalk. I think you will be hard pressed to find an example of this happening.

I'll bet that would be because you'd be hard pressed to find an experianced cyclist (outside of couriers) riding straight through driveways or intersections without looking for trouble on sidewalks in the first place.


Bicycles shouldn't be on the sidewalk because they may endanger pedestrians and for other reasons. The relative safety of the rider is not at all important in a discussion about riding on the sidewalk, but you ARE less at risk of being hit by a CAR on the SIDEWALK.

Once again, the problem is when the cyclist leaves the crosswalk and enters through on a driveway or an intersection.

i don't have a problem with kids on the sidewalk, as most probably haven't experienced traffic until driver;s ed...but i think one thing to tell kids to be mindful of SUV's. they're all over these days. my mom is a nurse, and she told me of a kid in the hospital who actually got run over by his own family backing out of a driveway in one of those suv's. it always stuck in my head...very sad. they just can't see far enough down. after hearing that at a young age, i always was careful of suv's...make sure you tell your kids to watch out for them backing out, too.

In Melbourne in Australia 12 yrs and older legally have to ride on the road. Before reading this topic, I thought that it was ridiculous that a grade 6 girl should have to ride on the road, but now I find the reason why the government has this restriction. Good on the government for thinking logically.
Still... this law is not uphold and anyone 15 and under are most likely to ride on the footpath.

Yeah, she only rode with me, I always made her stop if anyone was in the cars in the driveways and pointed out to her that we had to wait until the driver saw us and said go ahead. We would have waited for the car to pull out if the driver didn't see us. Like I said she is going slow and operating like a pedestrian. She is just a little too small to ride in the street, she only rode with me. We don't dismount to cross driveways but did stop when any cars were occupied. I think it was safer than you guys make it out to be. You are right about experienced cyclist not riding on the sidewalk which is why I think the statistics make it look more dangerous than it is. An experienced or careful rider could do it safely. I think the sidewalk riding is symptomatic of poor cycling, not the CAUSE of the accidents. When my neice and I did it, we were careful and safe.

Have a happy new year. Keep on riding responsibly, I think you probably are a good example of a safe rider that other cyclists can learn from.

It sounds like you were doing a good job. The problem arises when things happen that you've avoided. Just keep close to her when you're out together. She needs a mature set of eyes and mind that thinks of these things.

All the best in the New Year.

Here is something simple... to help the people who don't understand (qmsdc15)... it is called a sideWALK for a reason. Or maybe we should just change our, "Share the Road" signs to say, "Share the SideWALK" and put a bike on it.

Read the book, "Effective Cycling" by John Forester (http://www.johnforester.com/)

Ken Kifer was killed by a drunk driver. Even if there was a sideWALK there (assuming there even was) isn't going to prevent a Drunk Driver from crossing over and killing him there either. SideWALKs don't keep people safe. Actually nothing is 100% safe. We are just trying to explain to you the tested and statistically proven methods that get people where they need to go at a decent pace in one piece.

I don't expect any seven year old to just start out riding in a busy street. I would recommend an adult go with them. After taking a Road I type coarse they should have proven there skills and could successfully ride in traffic. But the best recommendation would be for a group of young cyclists to ride together. There was a study recently that stated safety in numbers here (http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/9/3/205) .


Keep Cycling,

I found that taking the lane does reduce the amount of close passes, but it does increase the number of tools who tailgate me...so I just let them pass me closely. My pet peeve are tailgaters who make it impossible to do a lane change since I cant see beyond them.

As far as the road, do it...it's far safer than you think...they CAN see you there, so all that is left is them following the rules of the road. On the sidewalk, they may not be able to see you, and it's pretty much a no-man's land as far as who gets priority...after all a bike is NOT a pedestrian.

Just keep your head up and dont cave in.

I've had my share of jeers and cheers while commuting on the road...everything from a mailman screaming "sidewalk *******!" to a car of girls cheering me on, to random people telling me I have balls of steel for riding in the street (I guess that's a mixed comment).

To me, it's not about balls, it's about keeping my head from getting dented up....well anymore than it is already that is.

miyoo,
google "John Forester" or "vehicular cycling" and read some of those sites. I think that I speak for most forum members in strongly recommending that you do not ride on the sidewalk. In seems safer, but isn't!

That all depends on how you do it. As with most issues on this forum, blanket advice is almost always given without any consideration of the actual situation in question. (That would get in the way of preaching dogma, tsk tsk)

An experienced or careful rider could do it safely. I think the sidewalk riding is symptomatic of poor cycling, not the CAUSE of the accidents. When my neice and I did it, we were careful and safe.

It isn't as much your riding on the sidewalk as it is the fact that cars don't look to the right. They aren't looking for you or anyone else. They look to the left and go! (Right Hand Turn). The reason I look more often now is because I am a cyclist and know that some people choose to ride because they were never told that it is more dangerous.

Read this article about someone that had the same views you have. He has changed...

http://staff.mwsc.edu/~bhugh/bikekcsafety.html (On-Street Bicycling is Safe)

(from the above link)

Relative Danger Index Facility
(Safest) 0.41 major roads with bicycle facilities
. 0.51 signed bike routes (wide lanes and signs, no other special facilities)
. 0.66 major road without bicycle facilities
. 0.94 minor road without bicycle facilities
. 1.39 multi-use trail
(Most dangerous) 16.34 sidewalk

There are many more places for similar statistics.

Happy New Year!

Keep Cycling,

I'm not telling anybody to ride on the sidewalk, but to hold up this poor child as an example of how not to ride seems cold hearted and the conclusion that riding on the sidewalk is more dangerous is just plain wrong. Shame on you!

There is no Shame here. I feel for anyone that is killed especially a cyclist (whatever age). I road on the sidewalk when I was younger. The shame should be on all the people who have propogated this misinformation that people should ride on the sideWALKS. Without these examples then how do people learn that it isn't safe? Doesn't higher numbers of fatalities from SideWALKS warrant educating people as to the dangers? This isn't just an youth cyclist issue. There are people of many ages who are riding on sideWALKS. I won't even get into the ones who ride on the road going the wrong direction. That has been heavily posted already. I fear the crazy peds (people running across the street etc.) and wrong way cyclists at night more often than the drivers.

Keep Cycling,

7 year old should ride in the street or wait until she is grown up to ride a bike? She goes about as fast as a jogger, she already knows how to walk on a sidewalk safely. I think she can bike like a pedestrian, looking out for cars in driveways, walking bike across the street, etc. I think it is safer that way.

You link to Ken Kifer. He was a great advocate of safe riding in traffic, but he did get run over by a car.

Advocates for bikers' right to the road want to make sidewalk riding sound like a dangerous alternative. People with common sense may dismiss your entire argument when they hear this point. When advocating for cyclists please stay off the sidewalk. Don't even go there, it makes you look like a kook.


Riding my bicycle at 23 mph on the sidewalk is safer than riding in the street?
Your daughter is 7 years old. All the states I've been in allow children to ride on the sidewalk, as your daughter should. My state, California, says that at 16 years old, bicycle riders should be off the sidewalk and riding in the street. You miss on comparing bicycle accidents between cyclists riding on the sidewalk with cars, and bicyclists riding in the steet with cars. To do so you must also compare the accident statistics between cars themselves, to see how dangerous this is.
What many seem to miss in this accident is that the truck driver crossed a sidewalk without making certain that it was clear, as I believe the law in that state would show.

Show me one instance of some one killed riding on the SIDEWALK, not intersection which is street.




.

Two children in Danville, CA. Riding in front of their father, who was walking. Drunk/drugged woman went up onto the sidewalk, ran over both children, then managed, later, to snag a ride from someone else and got away. She had tried to get back into her car to leave, but someone took her keys. They finally caught her two days later. If she hadn't run they wouldn't ahve found the cocaine in her apartment when they got a warrant and searched it. She was a "valued" nanny for well to do people in this area.

Riding my bicycle at 23 mph on the sidewalk is safer than riding in the street?


Why does everyone around here automatically assume that EVERYONE is ALWAYS riding at 22MPH? (or here "23 mph") Hint: it IS possible to slow down to a speed which is safe for the conditions.

Why does everyone around here automatically assume that EVERYONE is ALWAYS riding at 22MPH? (or here "23 mph") Hint: it IS possible to slow down to a speed which is safe for the conditions.

If we ride on the sidewalk, then it would NEVER be safe to ride 23 mph, and we would never be able to. I ride at lesser speeds frequently.

Why does everyone around here automatically assume that EVERYONE is ALWAYS riding at 22MPH? (or here "23 mph") Hint: it IS possible to slow down to a speed which is safe for the conditions.

Stop making sense!

If we ride on the sidewalk, then it would NEVER be safe to ride 23 mph, and we would never be able to. I ride at lesser speeds frequently.

Yes, once you ride on a sidewalk at walking speeds you can NEVER ride on the road again! You would never be able to do it.

Why does everyone around here automatically assume that EVERYONE is ALWAYS riding at 22MPH? (or here "23 mph") Hint: it IS possible to slow down to a speed which is safe for the conditions.


True, but how many actually ride at a walking speed? You can be assured that it is less than 10% of riders, since at that point you might as well be walking since walking speed (approx 5-6mph) is slow enough that more than a select few bikes are a bit unstable for comfort.

The point is anyhting going 10mph or faster on a sidewalk (which many riders fit into this catagory), are running a very high chance of having a crash that neither side can forsee. One example is a car coming out of a parking garage...they may not be able to see more than a few feet of sidewalk on the way out, and you cant see them until they are in your path.

I know you are comfortable with your riding style, and feel that your situation is impossible, however keep in mind that your situation might be the exception...however I can tell you I have had over 4 incidents last year on a sidewalk, and only one on the road....and that one was when I hit an oil slick and went down....no car involved. I have rode in heavy traffic, I have rode with cars six inches from my bars, going 30mph faster than me, and you know what....I feel safer on the road with them, than I do on the sidewalk.

Yes, once you ride on a sidewalk at walking speeds you can NEVER ride on the road again! You would never be able to do it.

That's correct, especially if it was mandated by law because it was safer for us cyclists. I know of no sidewalks where it is safe to ride 23 mph, and few where it's safe to ride 15 mph.
For some reason, mentioning any speed like 22 mph as a reference gets bashed immediately here, is that because nobody here EVER goes that fast? My point was that we would never be able to ride 23 mph on a sidewalk, while we can do that on the road.