Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Is it possible to inform cyclists about annoying bicycle lighting?

Now that technology has given virtually any old "schmo" the ability to outfit their bicycle with blinding bicycle lighting products is there any chance that bicycle lighting manufacturers can effectively stress how important it is to operate their lights correctly? Or will it be just another case of technology being abused by mostly thoughtless, perverted or just plain ignorant people?

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

It has already become apparent to me, when using local urban bicycle trails that most riders turn on front flashing lights that aim directly at all the trail users they encounter. This has added yet another negative aspect to using some of these trails late into the evening.

I can only imagine it will continue to grow as a problem and annoyance. Will bicycle lights eventually create safety issues among the trail-using cycling public?

Your thoughts and comments on this matter are requested.

My wife and I ride the SRT. Most of the time we try to get back to the car at dusk. Sometimes that is not possible. We do several miles through a national park that until recently was over run by deer. Herds of 20 to 30 deer along and on the trail were not unusual. We stared with little lights that would illuminate the rail surface for about 20 feet in front of our bicycles. The trees along the trail blot out and light reflected from above. We had a number of incidents where startled running deer almost ran into one of us. Then there are people walking dogs with no blinkies on their clothing and no reflective clothing. Using a difference in the degree of blackness to tell where the trail's asphalt surface is very the grass or gravel trail borders to guide them. Then there are the skaters lacking reflective clothing or blinkies. Then a couple on recumbents rolling on the trail sans lights or reflective clothing. My wife limits her speed to about 8 mph after dark for safety.
Last summer two women on skates gave us some crap about our lights blinding them. At 50 feet you simply could not see them in the dark. Dark non reflective clothing and no blinkies. tried to lecture us on trail safety that our lights blinded them. I pointed out that if they followed trail rules so that they could be seen more than 50 feet away we would gladly turned down the amount of light off our bikes.

Are we going to have collisions with deer and other trail users who don't want to use reflective clothing or blinkies? I think not. The light issue works both ways.

I know nothing about trail/MUP riding since there is no such thing where I live. As for riding on the road, I'll stop turning my lights up to maximum when I am confident that I can do so and not have the car with my name on it "not see me"

With my current lighting setup, an original MagicShine (450 lumens, no cutoff) on full brightness, I have had cars with clear lines of visibility for 1/2 mile, no distractions at all and me wearing neon green reflective wear "not see me" and pull out and hit me. Clearly I need even more light.

If I were riding on an MUP I imagine that I'd turn my lights down considerably. I already do if I'm out on lonely stretches where I can ride for 20 minutes and not see anyone else.

With my current lighting setup, an original MagicShine (450 lumens, no cutoff) on full brightness, I have had cars with clear lines of visibility for 1/2 mile, no distractions at all and me wearing neon green reflective wear "not see me" and pull out and hit me. Clearly I need even more light.


Disclaimer - I do not ride on MUPs, I ride only on the roads, where there are mostly motor vehicles, and few other cyclists...

I too have obnoxiously bright lights - both steady and blinking front and back (Dinotte Tail light, Cateye Loop, Supernova E3, Supernova tail light). It is possible that the lights, especially the dinotte tail light are bright enough to disturb motorists, pedestrians and cyclists. On the other side, the consequences of my not being seen by a motorist is serious injury or death. Given the consequences I am willing to disturb some others to help give myself a margin of safety.

I'm with WK. I usually run one light steady and a second on flash on my local trail. Reflections off of trail-side signs and objects of the flashing light seem to get the attention of other trail users (walkers, slower riders); the steady light picks up whatever reflective material walkers/joggers have on (usually a few dirt-covered pieces on the back of their running shoes). Too many dusk/dark trail walkers, joggers, dog walkers, day-laborers heading home, and riders have NO lights or reflective gear and are ignorant or clueless of their risk or presume because they see me, I must see them. Even at 15 mph closing speed (vs a slow walker), I want 100-150 ft of ilumination to give me plenty of warning I'm overtaking someone.

If I can, I cover/switch off the flasher and aim my helmet-mounted light away from oncoming riders with lights.

I know nothing about trail/MUP riding since there is no such thing where I live. As for riding on the road, I'll stop turning my lights up to maximum when I am confident that I can do so and not have the car with my name on it "not see me"



Disclaimer - I do not ride on MUPs, I ride only on the roads, where there are mostly motor vehicles, and few other cyclists...With my current lighting setup, an original MagicShine (450 lumens, no cutoff) on full brightness, I have had cars with clear lines of visibility for 1/2 mile, no distractions at all and me wearing neon green reflective wear "not see me" and pull out and hit me. Clearly I need even more light.If I were riding on an MUP I imagine that I'd turn my lights down considerably. I already do if I'm out on lonely stretches where I can ride for 20 minutes and not see anyone else.I too have obnoxiously bright lights - both steady and blinking front and back (Dinotte Tail light, Cateye Loop, Supernova E3, Supernova tail light). It is possible that the lights, especially the dinotte tail light are bright enough to disturb motorists, pedestrians and cyclists. On the other side, the consequences of my not being seen by a motorist is serious injury or death. Given the consequences I am willing to disturb some others to help give myself a margin of safety.



I tend to agree with both of these opinions.. ;)



I don't ride the MUP and bike trails with ANY LIGHTS. I do ride in give-no-quarter rush-hour 50mph+ traffic. And I tell you what, NO QUARTER IS GIVEN, and not taken. However, just like somebody mentioned, even with my BRIGHT LIGHTS, I have them aimed DOWNWARD, about 25 to 35 feet in front of me.

Most riders with bright lights are RESPONSIBLE, but to come out talk about annoying bright lights opposed to this, is dam right nuts!!!

Just an example of what happens when YOU ARE NOT SEEN. You can be sure if she was running the kind of lights that we 3 run, she would still here!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/21/AR2010092105239.html

I've wondered if my dual blinking lights on the front are distracting to cars. I've been told they're quite visible. I only ride roads, so my issues would only be with oncoming drivers.

I have to say that blinding pedestrians is pretty far down on my list of things I give a **** about. I do worry about blinding motorists. I want them to be able to see me, not blind them.

FWIW, I have been running pretty bright lights front and rear on the roads for about 6 years now, starting with a DIY 20w halogen, moving to an HID and then to the Magicshine. On the rear I had one, two and eventually three PBSFs, then a Dinotte 140, then the Magicshine supplemented with first a PBSF and now a Hotshot on my helmet.

I have yet to get a complaint from a driver that they were too bright, but about twice a year I get a driver compliment me and thank me for running decent lights. I actually had a significant conversation with a farmer at his mailbox one day, his house is on top of a hill and I was cranking up it, he said he wished lights as bright as mine were required equipment.

If your aiming your light 100 yards in front of you - yes you will be blinding drivers. I stagger my light where the floodiest is right in front of me while I have a second light which is more of a thrower about 20 yards ahead of me. If your aiming them at the road you will be fine.

I've wondered if my dual blinking lights on the front are distracting to cars. I've been told they're quite visible. I only ride roads, so my issues would only be with oncoming drivers.

Have you ever had ONCOMING TRAFFIC make a LEFT TURN IN FRONT OF YOU? And close too? Have you ever had cars pulling out of driveways after they have looked both ways, see you coming and still pull in front of you? Well, they used to do that to me. Since I have been running bright lights, NO MORE!! In fact, I was almost a full block away from the intersection, but an on-coming car WAITED for me to pass before they made their left turn..In addition, how many cars run their bright lights and don't dim? We have about 1000 to 1 ratio when it comes to cars vs bicycles.. That has to be taken into account.

On the MUP, and trails, that might be a different story, but I commute in heavy traffic in the dark. Not a time to be meek in lights. ;)

My wife and I ride the SRT. Most of the time we try to get back to the car at dusk. Sometimes that is not possible. We do several miles through a national park that until recently was over run by deer. Herds of 20 to 30 deer along and on the trail were not unusual. We stared with little lights that would illuminate the rail surface for about 20 feet in front of our bicycles. The trees along the trail blot out and light reflected from above. We had a number of incidents where startled running deer almost ran into one of us. Then there are people walking dogs with no blinkies on their clothing and no reflective clothing. Using a difference in the degree of blackness to tell where the trail's asphalt surface is very the grass or gravel trail borders to guide them. Then there are the skaters lacking reflective clothing or blinkies. Then a couple on recumbents rolling on the trail sans lights or reflective clothing. My wife limits her speed to about 8 mph after dark for safety.
Last summer two women on skates gave us some crap about our lights blinding them. At 50 feet you simply could not see them in the dark. Dark non reflective clothing and no blinkies. tried to lecture us on trail safety that our lights blinded them. I pointed out that if they followed trail rules so that they could be seen more than 50 feet away we would gladly turned down the amount of light off our bikes.

Are we going to have collisions with deer and other trail users who don't want to use reflective clothing or blinkies? I think not. The light issue works both ways.

Very good points. Not only that, does anybody have any stats on drivers getting blinded by bicycle lights and getting hurt in accidents?

I think the stats on bicyclists getting hit by cars not seeing them is way, way, way, way up there with out even researching. So, who should be putting the danger sign out? The so-called annoyed drivers, or the bicyclists getting hit, killed, maimed, disfigured for life, paralized for life and Lord knows what else happens when 3000+lbs of steel hits our unprotected bodies. and then we here the famous excuse "I didn't see them"!

I really would like to know. :twitchy:

I got yelled at the other night for too bright of a light by the first person in a pack of about 8. The last one in the group called out and wanted to know what kind it was. I try to remember to put my hand over the light/hit the low power setting but it was in a winding section of trail and most of them had no lights so I didn't see them coming.
Which brings me to my second point. When we have rid the bicycling world of ninjas I will take up the cause for mandatory dimmer switches on bicycle headlights.

cygolight 300, not exactly blinding.

So long as people opt for the 18650 powered flashlights, you are going to have this problem.

Another thing, IMO, is that a lot of people don't know how to properly aim their lights to begin with. A totally Fred idea is to incorporate a built-in level on the side of the light head housing- when the bubble is dead center, then the light is properly aimed per the manufacturer.

Does anyone really think that being lit up like the surface of the sun is going to prevent the person who just had the bad day at work who is talking on their cel phone not run you over ?

I think that these folks that are looking for brighter and brighter lighting are often missing the point that these people in cars who don't see you also don't see the other cars and pedestrians they run into regularly and your gigawatts of lighting which annoy the piss out of other road users do not provide a magical force field.

At minimum I run a 250 lumen front lamp which provides enough light for me to ride by, often pair that with a 10-15 watt halogen, have a Superflash in the rear and a good deal of reflective gear and have a blinky on my helmet in the rear.

I do not assume that drivers see me or that running brighter lights will get their attention when they are otherwise distracted short of running red flashers and running a siren and even then... I have seen drivers fail to notice emergency vehicles.

The rules are different for night riding on trails where you need lighting with a wider and brighter throw but these types of lights and non bike specific lights that throw similar beam patterns are not good for road use... my halogen lights are used sparingly as they are designed for off road and have easily accessible dimmer switches as I would not want to be riding in to them on the road.

Had two incidents in my commute this morning worth mentioning. I am moving down a four lane downtown street in the darkness of the morning. A tractor trailor passes me within 3 feet. He saw me, thank heavens. He was doing about 45mph..He was moving.. The other incident, and this was after breakfast, and the sun is out. I am on 3 lane road in the city, and as the light turn green, I am coming through. A car that was stopped at the light, caught up with me at that next light, and asked me about my light. I told him it was a 3x cree torch, powered by a 26650.. It was on blinky..

Also, when I do have my lights on high, I have them aimed downward, the beam is hitting some 25 to 30 ft out in front. I wonder how many bicyclists get annoyed from cars/trucks taking their rightaway??

As long as my lights are no brighter than automobile lights they are not too bright. In fact, in our society with so many lighted signs and other distractions the brighter the lights the better. If I could mount standard automotive head and tail lights I'd do it. A similar thing goes for reflective clothing. With all the distractions today it is hard to see people, period. That is one of the reasons why it is more and more common to see all sorts of people wearing reflective clothing who not so long ago didn't.

As far as bad driving by others is concerned we have to face it; there are a lot of self-centered and aggressive drivers on the road. Plus, some, I swear, have a hobby of trying to create collisions. They are not necessarily targeting bikes. But, an unprotected cyclist is a tempting target. My experience is they target almost anyone in any vehicle where they think they can cause the problem and then escape without consequences. Unless you are driving an M1A1 it is just something you have to put up with.

As long as my lights are no brighter than automobile lights they are not too bright.

That's not entirely true, because in the US anyway, bicycle lights are not really what a reasonable person would call road-ready. They have no beam cutoff, the beam is just conical like a flashlight. That kind of beam would be illegal in a car regardless of intensity, but there are no regulations on bike lights, they can spill all kinds of light straight into other driver's eyes. That's why it's important to aim a bike light carefully to minimize that.

If you get a bike light that's road legal in the EU (Germany at least), then it will have great optics with a beam cutoff.

All else being equal, you're right. I'd have no problem with someone running a car headlight on a bike, because a car headlight WOULD have a beam cutoff. Also if you took a bike light and adjusted it down to where the amount of light hitting a driver's eyes was equivalent to that from a car headlight, again, no problem.

If your aiming your light 100 yards in front of you - yes you will be blinding drivers. I stagger my light where the floodiest is right in front of me while I have a second light which is more of a thrower about 20 yards ahead of me. If your aiming them at the road you will be fine.

If you are aiming your bicycle lights 100 yards in front of you, you are wasting your time, money and batter power. Even Automobile (low beams) aren't aimed 100 yards in front of the vehicle.

Even if your lights are 100 yards ahead of your bicycle, you won't be blinding drivers unless you are riding on the center line. I, personally, don't spend a lot of time there when riding at night because I like my 3rd dimension.

I am not aiming my lights 100 yds out either.

In fact, I don't even aim my lights 100 FEET out!!

I have my lights aimed at about 20 to 30 feet out in front.

I am not aiming my lights 100 yds out either.

In fact, I don't even aim my lights 100 FEET out!!

I have my lights aimed at about 20 to 30 feet out in front.

What are you yelling about and what is your point?? Good god, freakin 70 year olds yelling about crap that we don't care about.

What are you yelling about and what is your point?? Good god, freakin 70 year olds yelling about crap that we don't care about.
"WE????" Speak for yourself! Personally I had no problems understanding his point. Yours, on the other hand - completely escaped me.

What are you yelling about and what is your point?? Good god, freakin 70 year olds yelling about crap that we don't care about.

I am 70 years old sonny boy.
I care about returning home safe from every ride.

Now using 3 @ 18650 head lights and a very bright IXON IQ.

So ride safe and take care. You might even be 70 someday.

The only lighting I can imagine being an issue or annoyance at night would be strobe-type lights which can be annoying for both the owner as well as other drivers. Annoying to the owner because a strobe mode doesn't provide effective light to drive by.

Anything else I would expect to be directed at the ground otherwise the bike driver would have no light to drive by. The idea that anyone might actually aim any light 1,000 yards ahead and still have any usefull light is ridiculous. The only lights I'm aware of that have that kind of range are military HID weapons lights that cost over $1,300, use over 35W of power and put out over 3,500 lumens. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a very poor sense of distance and probably won't be much of a danger to anyone else for very long.

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

Walk the trail with a 1000lm torch in your pocket. Shine it in their eyes as they ride past.
Several things might happen:

Not hurt them at all because its impossible for a bike light to dazzle someone.
Teach them a valuable lesson in courtesy.
Provoke an escalation in the lumen race.
Get your teeth kicked in.

What are you yelling about and what is your point?? Good god, freakin 70 year olds yelling about crap that we don't care about.

I PERSONALLY apoligize to YOU for BENDING YOUR EYES and TWISTING YOUR HEAD TO READ MY POST!!!

I was trying to keep it a secret that I had the "across the internet twisting/holding power" ;)

I didn't want everybody to know I have that power. However, the secret is out, and now everybody knows I have the power to MAKE SOMEONE READ MY POST!!!!:cry:

OK- well I guess most of you never ride in popular urban trail/sidewalk park areas.

There have numerous incidents I have experienced where the "air-heads" I have joined to ride with all operate their lights for "optimal" road setup when we are an urban trail on in a park where longer range bright lights do more "annoying" than illuminating. This is happening in group rides and certain popular urban areas near schools and night life venues.

All I was getting at - the light you need to save you for the "left-turn" idiot is not a good thing when aimed at pedestrians outside of Joe's bar. And the blinky that warns a driver at 500 yards really pisses me of on a trail where there is no auto traffic.

My point is, just because you have a "big one" you don't have to show it to everybody, all the time - especially when you are not having sex........

Walk the trail with a 1000lm torch in your pocket. Shine it in their eyes as they ride past.
Several things might happen:

Not hurt them at all because its impossible for a bike light to dazzle someone.
Teach them a valuable lesson in courtesy.
Provoke an escalation in the lumen race.
Get your teeth kicked in.


Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say., :)

Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say., :)

Haha, hi colleen c I haven't heard that saying in a while. I must be really fortunate b/c around here once the sun goes down everyone magically vanishes from the bike paths and even the streets start emptying out pretty early. On the rare occasion that I come upon a pedestrian on a bike path, I just dim my bar light to 5% and even tilt it downward a bit until I pass them. My light has the O-Ring mount which is easy to tilt down and then back up. I usually use my Lupine Betty on the bars and at 5% it is comes out to about 87.5 lumens which doesn't seem to irritate anyone especially when tilted down a lot. I set my 1,750 Lumen Betty to a 3 step setting, which leaves me with 1,750, 700, or 87.5 lumen settings. 700 lumens seems to be plenty for the streets and I haven't had any issue using this setting. I have a helmet mounted light too, but that is not used on the street, but when I get further away from civilization I use it as needed.

The Niterider halogen dual has seemed to serve well here. The 10watt spot beam is set for about 50-60 ft in front and the 20w flood is wide angle but useless at 50 percent of the range of the spot. Typically I use the spot as the default or the flood for the low speed urban. The pair together has enough power that the cars who "High" beam to greet turn down in response to a dual beam hit. Rear blinker systems are more important for safety than front in this area but the high power headlight is useful in its own way.

The point of dazzling the traffic being a concern is somewhat wishful in my opinion. The times I have run my 1 watt Niterider tail light and Vistalite LeD both on steady the traffic treated me like a mailbox and with the same courtesy. When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do. That test was conducted with a reflector traffic guard vest btw.

Once I had a cop pull me over on bike(for another issue), and he tried to say my light was not to spec. PA law says vehicle headlight and taillights shall be visible FROM 500 ft. He said it had to be casting a beam TO 500 ft. He backed down when I told him his squad crown-vic couldn't do that...

The Niterider halogen dual has seemed to serve well here. The 10watt spot beam is set for about 50-60 ft in front and the 20w flood is wide angle but useless at 50 percent of the range of the spot. Typically I use the spot as the default or the flood for the low speed urban. The pair together has enough power that the cars who "High" beam to greet turn down in response to a dual beam hit. Rear blinker systems are more important for safety than front in this area but the high power headlight is useful in its own way.

The point of dazzling the traffic being a concern is somewhat wishful in my opinion. The times I have run my 1 watt Niterider tail light and Vistalite LeD both on steady the traffic treated me like a mailbox and with the same courtesy. When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do. That test was conducted with a reflector traffic guard vest btw.

Once I had a cop pull me over on bike(for another issue), and he tried to say my light was not to spec. PA law says vehicle headlight and taillights shall be visible FROM 500 ft. He said it had to be casting a beam TO 500 ft. He backed down when I told him his squad crown-vic couldn't do that...

Very good points!! :beer:

Annoying bicycle lights oppose to this!

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bicyclist-dies-after-being-1428310.html

This rider was riding in the kind of traffic that I ride in everyday. Cars and trucks moving fast and close all the time. Would better lights have helped this rider? I dunno, maybe they would, and maybe they wouldn't. But, I would rather have good better than average bright lights and got an idea that everybody sees me than not to have them. Riding in this kind of arena is no way anywhere near like riding on an MUP or bike trail.

This guy was 53 years old.. A dam waste!! :(

When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do.

Hope there wasn't a ninja cyclist coming the other way. :innocent:

Maybe in the next generation of bike light design we'll find both low shaped beams and high conical beams with a control easily mounted next to your grips. Not dissimilar from what is standard equipment in cars. Perhaps, if the geniuses at B&M, Schmidt, or Lupine, begin channeling their inner Steve Jobs, the lights can even be equipped with camera style facial recognition and be self dimming when approaching oncoming pedestrians. Unfortunately, Looking at the latest Mountain Bike light shootout, most light manufacturers seem to only be interested in sheer candlepower and runtime.
I frequently ride on a lighted MUP, (Southwest Corridor Park) and find that the shaped low beam style light (B&M IQ Fly) is ideal, it lights the path and when well adjusted, doesn't shine into the eyes of oncoming cyclists and peds. One drawback of a shaped beam is that when riding on dark unlit road/paths it sometimes looks like there is always a path in front of you, especially if I am tired.
If I were riding on the unlit Minuteman Commuter Bikeway at night, (no lights, lots of tree cover and no fog lines on the sides of the path) I would probably be running a standard conical style beam. Dimming for pedestrians would be a problem.

Now that technology has given virtually any old "schmo" the ability to outfit their bicycle with blinding bicycle lighting products is there any chance that bicycle lighting manufacturers can effectively stress how important it is to operate their lights correctly? Or will it be just another case of technology being abused by mostly thoughtless, perverted or just plain ignorant people?

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

It has already become apparent to me, when using local urban bicycle trails that most riders turn on front flashing lights that aim directly at all the trail users they encounter. This has added yet another negative aspect to using some of these trails late into the evening.

I can only imagine it will continue to grow as a problem and annoyance. Will bicycle lights eventually create safety issues among the trail-using cycling public?

Your thoughts and comments on this matter are requested.

It's highly doubtful. If people can't be bothered to take a few moments to consider their fellow man nothing written in a handbook is going to change that.

If someone has lights adjusted such that they blind oncoming road users some will be doing it because they don't realise and will respond well to being told, others will tell you to (expletive) off out of their face and they'll (expletive) do what they (expletive) well like.

Unfortunately, as Whiteknight said, if people are riding on unlit paths that might feature animals they will want lights that will let them see those animals well ahead of time. For all many people try and avoid upsetting other path users, safety trumps convenience any day.

It's highly doubtful. If people can't be bothered to take a few moments to consider their fellow man nothing written in a handbook is going to change that.

If someone has lights adjusted such that they blind oncoming road users some will be doing it because they don't realise and will respond well to being told, others will tell you to (expletive) off out of their face and they'll (expletive) do what they (expletive) well like.

Unfortunately, as Whiteknight said, if people are riding on unlit paths that might feature animals they will want lights that will let them see those animals well ahead of time. For all many people try and avoid upsetting other path users, safety trumps convenience any day.

For Richard Cranium(Dick Head?) Lights are on the bike for the same reasons they are on motor vehicles, safety. Seems to me if you are annoyed it should be at the light manufacturers and the government standards folks. Instead of spending your energy lambasting other riders it could be better spent persuading the government to set standards in the same way they set standards for automotive lighting and then encouraging manufacturers to follow the standards.

Lights are on the bike for the same reasons they are on motor vehicles, safety. Seems to me if you are annoyed it should be at the light manufacturers and the government standards folks. Instead of spending your energy lambasting other riders it could be better spent persuading the government to set standards in the same way they set standards for automotive lighting and then encouraging manufacturers to follow the standards.

The key difference is that it's hard to adjust a car's headlights to point them upwards and into the opposing lane. A badly adjusted bike light can easily point just about anywhere.

The key difference is that it's hard to adjust a car's headlights to point them upwards and into the opposing lane. A badly adjusted bike light can easily point just about anywhere.

Don't drive at night much do you? It is common to encounter vehicles with mis-adjusted lights.

In any case that is part of the standard setting process. Instead of allowing anything and everything to operate a bike at night it would have to be equipped with specified lighting. Such standards exist for boats, motor vehicles, airplanes, etc. Maybe it is past time for bicycles to have their standards.

safety trumps convenience any day.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Don't drive at night much do you? It is common to encounter vehicles with mis-adjusted lights.

Maybe it is around your way. I don't see all that many of them (excluding the people who leave their full beams on, or have a single headlight out), and the fact remains that when a headlight is fixed to the car it's much harder to point it somewhere random than when it's strapped to a round handlebar and can be twisted to just about any angle.


In any case that is part of the standard setting process. Instead of allowing anything and everything to operate a bike at night it would have to be equipped with specified lighting. Such standards exist for boats, motor vehicles, airplanes, etc. Maybe it is past time for bicycles to have their standards.

Sounds about as practical as expecting cyclists to have licenses. Somewhere along the line you either have to require 3-year-old Jimmy to have an approved light fitted to his bicycle, or leave cops on patrol trying to figure whether a cyclist is old enough to require standard lights. Then you've got the obvious defence of "my lights were stolen and I had to get home". Can't see that one actually working in practise.

Maybe it is around your way. I don't see all that many of them (excluding the people who leave their full beams on, or have a single headlight out), and the fact remains that when a headlight is fixed to the car it's much harder to point it somewhere random than when it's strapped to a round handlebar and can be twisted to just about any angle.



Sounds about as practical as expecting cyclists to have licenses. Somewhere along the line you either have to require 3-year-old Jimmy to have an approved light fitted to his bicycle, or leave cops on patrol trying to figure whether a cyclist is old enough to require standard lights. Then you've got the obvious defence of "my lights were stolen and I had to get home". Can't see that one actually working in practise.

I think you don't give enough credit to bike riders and people in general. Setting standards for bicycle lighting and enforcing them isn't really that big a deal if there is a will to do so. Focus on the equipment and not the operator makes it real easy. They need standard, required lights if operated after civil twilight but not if they aren't. That essentially makes bike lighting requirements the same as motor vehicles. Enforcement is real easy too in this litigation age. Even with very litttle law enforcement it won't take long for civil actions to motivate people to keep the unlit bikes at home after dark.

I think mis-adjusted lights are more common in areas that don't have regular vehicle inspections. Here in Michigan, as far as I know there are NO qualifications for vehicle roadworthiness. They'll let you drive anything that still moves, and they won't ticket you for lighting problems until you pretty much don't have any lights left that work at all, as long as they're pointed vaguely in the right direction.

Every day I get passed by cars that I am pretty sure are puking more unburned gas out the tailpipe than they're actually using. I really, really wish we actually had to get our cars inspected here.

Saw this on another forum.. the is SERIOUS BICYCLE LIGHTING! ;)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4153/i57120dsc7108.jpg

Don't pick on the 70 year old. Maybe some day you will be lucky enough to make 70 and still rides a bike

Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say., :)
Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70 :notamused: :innocent:

Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70 :notamused: :innocent:Semper fi. Carry on.

Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70 :notamused: :innocent:

This is classic stuff!! :thumb: :beer:

Now that technology has given virtually any old "schmo" the ability to outfit their bicycle with blinding bicycle lighting products is there any chance that bicycle lighting manufacturers can effectively stress how important it is to operate their lights correctly? Or will it be just another case of technology being abused by mostly thoughtless, perverted or just plain ignorant people?

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

It has already become apparent to me, when using local urban bicycle trails that most riders turn on front flashing lights that aim directly at all the trail users they encounter. This has added yet another negative aspect to using some of these trails late into the evening.

I can only imagine it will continue to grow as a problem and annoyance. Will bicycle lights eventually create safety issues among the trail-using cycling public?

Your thoughts and comments on this matter are requested.

I find these lights annoying = I see and am aware of you. In the world of bicycle safety, that's a win. On a path it may enable me to see you and not run you over, on the roads, it will hopefully enable a car to see me, and not run me over. I also consider that a win.

If you're annoyed, I can deal with that. :)

Joe