Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - cadence for a big guy

so I put a computer on my bike to monitor cadence and on the first ride with it (5 miles) I had an average of 78 with which I'm happy with :) my question is: around 86ish and above I seem to start to bounce. Do I have my seat to high or is it a form thing that I need to work into? I was having a little bit of knee pain before which went away after I raised my seat (followed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0leyXz840&feature=related) to adjust my fit on the bike).

I just posted this in your other thread:

90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range so you should keeping working towards being able to consistently pedal in that range, but a good rule of thumb for cadence is:
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)

I just posted this in your other thread:


saw that, thanks that was going to be my next question ;)

this question was more about the "bounce" I feel above 86ish

The bounce happens because of the dead spot in the pedal stroke at the bottom dead center. The idea is to try to get the pedal past that spot as smoothly as possible. One trick is to try to pedal in circles instead of squares, to do this some people suggest using a "Wipe your foot" motion at the bottom.

You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.

The bounce happens because of the dead spot in the pedal stroke at the bottom dead center. The idea is to try to get the pedal past that spot as smoothly as possible. One trick is to try to pedal in circles instead of squares, to do this some people suggest using a "Wipe your foot" motion at the bottom.

You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.

i aslo posted a answer in your other thread.

but the bouncing thing gets better as you ride more. last year i would bounce at 90rpm played with seat height (really really small adjustments) and the 90 was ok but at 95 i would bounce.
this year i think i bounce around 120-130 but at that rpm my legs are going link a squirrel on crack and redbull so noticing anything is not a concern.

like paisan says you can try visualizing wiping mud off your shoes at the bottom of your stroke, or the other tip is having your toes point a bit down and the bottom of your stroke, or the other i was told is seat height.

but i cant say that any of those worked. i felt it was just the practicing riding at higher cadence that worked the most.

just ride on, have fun and say wheeeeeeeeeeeee down all hills.

I find that if I'm "bouncing", it's usually because I'm in too low of a gear. Try shifting up and maintain that cadence.

If you just starting out a cadence in the 80's is really good. When you work on cadence try to keep it just below the bouncing rpm. I try to think about keeping "light on my feet" and lifting my leg on the upstroke. By lifting your leg on the upstroke you're using more muscles and not depending on the downstroke to lift the opposite leg.

One thing you can do to work on a smooth spin is to pick up a fixed gear bike. You have to pedal smoothly and constantly with a fixed gear, and this will do wonders for your spin and endurance on a road bike with gears that you can coast on. ;)

so I put a computer on my bike to monitor cadence and on the first ride with it (5 miles) I had an average of 78 with which I'm happy with :) my question is: around 86ish and above I seem to start to bounce. Do I have my seat to high or is it a form thing that I need to work into? I was having a little bit of knee pain before which went away after I raised my seat (followed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0leyXz840&feature=related) to adjust my fit on the bike).

Form.

I just posted this in your other thread:

Definitions of "optimal" (burns the fewest calories, makes the most power, produces the least fatigue for a given power) vary, the answers depend on both power output and the individual, and what feels best as a self-selected cadence needn't match any variant of "optimal."

To generalize you need more RPMs for least fatigue and highest average power for a duration as the power requirements go up. 70 RPM might be great for an all-day endurance ride but be unsustainable for more than five minutes at a power you could otherwise manage for an hour at higher RPM (Racing and Training with a Power Meter includes an anecdote about such a racer who got dropped every time he spent more than five minutes with such a combination). At an hour pace I can ride threshold intervals on consecutive days at 90-100 RPM but not much less. It might take 110 RPM for your fastest sprint.

Regardless, being able to spin faster (120-140 RPM isn't unreasonable) is a fine idea because it'll let you apply power at higher speeds and perhaps let you run a bigger starting cog for tighter spacing between gears at the speeds you travel more often and/or smaller big ring so you can shift your front derailleur less often and have a better quieter chain angle at cruising speeds.

Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.

The bounce could be from form and fit. As for cadance, I find it falls where it needs to be. I can run a cadance over 200 on the trainer and have seen 189 on the road but my average always falls between 82-86. We all have different styles and we all need to do what's right for us. It all depends on terrain and riding style. I do a lot of group riding which requires a heavy gear at times. Watch the pros, not all are spinning at 90 like a certain LA guy who popularized high leg speed most are going bigger gear between 75-85. Do what's right for you.

Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.

Depends what you mean by efficient. Higher cadence is easier on muscles and joints, but harder on heart and lungs. So the further and faster you go, the more a high cadence will help, because your muscles get less fatigued - you're pushing a smaller gear to go the same speed. However, this is only possible if you are aerobically fit enough to take up and use the extra oxygen that is required. - there's an energy cost to just moving your legs faster.

This is why one typically sees beginners spinning lower cadences. It feels easier, as long as you aren't going too far, and they simply aren't fit enough to maintain higher RPMs.

Depends what you mean by efficient. Higher cadence is easier on muscles and joints, but harder on heart and lungs. So the further and faster you go, the more a high cadence will help, because your muscles get less fatigued - you're pushing a smaller gear to go the same speed. However, this is only possible if you are aerobically fit enough to take up and use the extra oxygen that is required. - there's an energy cost to just moving your legs faster.

This is why one typically sees beginners spinning lower cadences. It feels easier, as long as you aren't going too far, and they simply aren't fit enough to maintain higher RPMs.

I can do a half century at 85 RPM, so your second statement must not be true for everyone. I just feel like a higher cadence is a waste of energy--spinning at 100-130 RPM and going half as fast as I would if I were to change gears and drop to 85 RPM. I'll try a high RMP on my next long ride this weekend and see how it plays out since I am in pretty good shape.

Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.

Answer to your first question, is, more or less, yes. If that "average speed" is considerably lower than your max for whatever distance or duration is anticipatd, then efficiency will not be as much of a concern. However, if you're attempting to go as far or as fast as you are capable for some measurable distance, then there is a basic physiological sweet spot for almost all persons with regard to musclular versus cardiovascular loading. That sweet spot is almost always in the range of 90-100 rpm. It may very a little from person to person, but not a lot. Keep in mind we are talking about "cyclists" who's muscles are trained to ride for considerable distance.

When I was young and new, I too felt as though I was more efficient when "mashing". I wasn't. With time and just a little bit of spin training you'll soon find that 100-105 rpm is nothing. To reach that point it requires improving your rpm redline by performing spinning drills. These include not only working on how "fast" you can spin, but, also on how "smoothly" you spin. One legged drills, scrape and lift practice, etc. Get a smooth pedal stroke, then work of foot speed. Soon you be spinning like a little man.

I can do a half century at 85 RPM, so your second statement must not be true for everyone. I just feel like a higher cadence is a waste of energy--spinning at 100-130 RPM and going half as fast as I would if I were to change gears and drop to 85 RPM. I'll try a high RMP on my next long ride this weekend and see how it plays out since I am in pretty good shape.

It looks like the two examples you're using are either side of what is normally consider the most effecient range (90-100). That could explain your experience.

110-120+ is starting to get into sprinting speeds and not something that would normally be sustainable for longer distances.

With 25 years of cycling experience I was pretty confident that I knew what a cadence of 90 rpm felt like. Until Mrs. Fred bought me a new cycling computer with cadence and heart rate sensors. I wasn't far off. But I was cycling at 80-90 instead of 90-100. Almost overnight, my performance increased. My friends all noticed it. And nothing had really changed but the fact that I was now usually spinning 1 gear lower than I had been. That's the extent of the difference. 1-2 gears lower.

That's the extent of the difference. 1-2 gears lower.

This.

Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.

Try riding with your tires at maximum air pressure. The harder the tires, the less they'll give.

That or get cages or clips. Eventually you'll stop thinking of the pedals as working in a downward motion only and start using a more circular motion.

This.

Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.

IMHO I don't think anyone thinks about cadence as bike rider, certainly not as a child with their bike.

Measurables like cadence comes into play when one makes the transition from bicycle rider to cyclist. :)

As you have mentioned, the more you ride the higher range your cadence falls into. That being said, I suspect Axiom will be no different than the majority with respect to his cadence level.

I just posted this in your other thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by paisan http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=14155112#post14155112)
90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range so you should keeping working towards being able to consistently pedal in that range, but a good rule of thumb for cadence is:
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)

And I try to do both of these. Depending on the ride I'll work on cadence (lungs) or legs. It could be during the same ride. Grab some gears, get out of the saddle and mash a while.
I'll also work on making circles (flat Jersey is good for that right paisan?). Wonder what people think when they see folks going 16 mph pedaling one legged? :twitchy:

Good stuff in this thread.

What's the length of your cranks vs the length of your legs?

I have to run 165MM cranks because one knee doesn't bend as far as it should.
Using 175MM cranks, my foot is leaving the pedal at about 63 RPM. I guess that might be considered "bounce"??
With 165's, I spin 80-85. Going shorter than that starts to reduce my cadence. (160's dropped me to 80 max)

I can do a half century at 85 RPM, so your second statement must not be true for everyone.


I also want to up my maximum ride distance from 30 miles to 50, and then 50 to a century.

:wtf:


I know this has absolutely nothing to do with cadence but there's a significant difference in your mileage in two different threads. If you're going to ask for help, make bold statements, or discredit another poster's advice(as you did to Chasm) it helps to have the facts straight so that others can take or give proper advice.

:wtf:


I know this has absolutely nothing to do with cadence but there's a significant difference in your mileage in two different threads. If you're going to ask for help, make bold statements, or discredit another poster's advice(as you did to Chasm) it helps to have the facts straight so that others can take or give proper advice.

Thnk U,

I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.

I don't bodybuild (powerlift, actually) anymore but my legs are still strong. I find myself mashing as well and it takes a great effort to stop.

like i said, once i learned to spin at a higher cadence i could go farther, longer and consecutive days. i still mash but i save that for overpasses, sprinting to get into the left lane to turn, sprint away from dogs, catch up to the 80 year old guy on a rusty mountain bike that just past me, mash through the wind that has me going 9mph, catch up and try to pass the girl who just flew by me (yes ego thing), mash to not get caught at the red light.

its nice to save your legs during a ride to use when needed. it a balance that is available for you to use how you want to. dont over think it and just ride, have fun, then repeat.

like i said, once i learned to spin at a higher cadence i could go farther, longer and consecutive days. i still mash but i save that for overpasses, sprinting to get into the left lane to turn, sprint away from dogs, catch up to the 80 year old guy on a rusty mountain bike that just past me, mash through the wind that has me going 9mph, catch up and try to pass the girl who just flew by me (yes ego thing), mash to not get caught at the red light.

its nice to save your legs during a ride to use when needed. it a balance that is available for you to use how you want to. dont over think it and just ride, have fun, then repeat.

"once i learned to spin at a higher cadence i could go farther, longer and consecutive days."

absolutely this!

"sprint away from dogs"

You don't have to be the fastest in the group. Just faster than the slowest...

There is no such thing as an "optimal" cadence that works for everyone. We all have different sizes, shapes and physiologies so why would we have the same cadence???? Because Lance Armstrong spun at 90rpm so should we? Jan Ulrich was quite successful at 80rpm. Someone said that 60rpm was a beginners cadence. I ride at 60rpm at times. Does that make me a beginner even though I have one transcontinental record and several other ultra-distance records?
There is a simple rule that works for cadence. If your lungs are limiting your performance than a lower cadence is required. If your legs are limiting your performance than you will want to go to a higher cadence. Simple as that!
We all have a natural cadence that works best for us and if you listen to your body you will find it naturally. Trying to achieve some mythical optimal cadence is a waste of time and energy.

There is a simple rule that works for cadence. If your lungs are limiting your performance than a lower cadence is required. If your legs are limiting your performance than you will want to go to a higher cadence. Simple as that!
We all have a natural cadence that works best for us and if you listen to your body you will find it naturally. Trying to achieve some mythical optimal cadence is a waste of time and energy.

I absolutely agree with this. However, it is a fact that new cyclists tend to ride at lower cadences, because -in your words - their lungs tend to limit their performance. I believe it is true to say, though I cannot now find the reference, that a cadence of around 60 achieves the most efficient use of oxygen. That is, for a given power output we use the least possible amount of oxygen at c. 60 rpm. Hence those who are short of breath will tend to ride in that rhythm.

However, as we know, pushing a big gear tends to be fatiguing after a while. So the fitter cyclist is trading higher demands on their respiratory system for less muscle fatigue. That's why the experienced and fit tend towards higher cadences (I agree that the optimum will vary from person to person). It's because they can manage that trade-off without blowing up.

I know you know all this. I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't recommending some "one-size fits all" approach.

I absolutely agree with this. However, it is a fact that new cyclists tend to ride at lower cadences, because -in your words - their lungs tend to limit their performance. I believe it is true to say, though I cannot now find the reference, that a cadence of around 60 achieves the most efficient use of oxygen. That is, for a given power output we use the least possible amount of oxygen at c. 60 rpm. Hence those who are short of breath will tend to ride in that rhythm....

I remember reading that somewhere myself. I'll find that its quite common to see long distance racer who race at a pretty low cadence. I love to get in a nice big gear on the flats and just cruise. I can do that for many, many miles. When I'm climbing though, I tend to crank the cadence up. Cadence is a tool for me. I pick the cadence that is optimal for the terrain I'm riding and how my body feels. Sometimes I vary it just to use some different muscles. I never sit at a specific cadence and stay there the whole time. Years ago I used to follow the "spin" culture but I found that no matter how high I train my legs to spin on long rides I will always revert back to my natural cadence.

I also find that there is a cadence my legs like to be at but as I get stronger that changes. I shift around and suddenly it feels "right". Usually it is up or down one gear from where I am at right at the moment.

I also find that there is a cadence my legs like to be at but as I get stronger that changes. I shift around and suddenly it feels "right". Usually it is up or down one gear from where I am at right at the moment.

Exactly.

Sorry, if I was one of the respondents making it sound like there is one and only one correct cadence.

You'll certainly see pro riders TT at a different cadence than they may use for climbing. And, ultra endurance riders like Homeyba will use what works for them. I have several Tri friends who train for a cadence that makes the transition to running easier. It's not their ideal cycling cadence, and they know it, but, for tri's it is what provides them the best time when they look at transitioning from cycling to running.

That being said. I do believe that most beginners declare themselves to be "mashers" or "grinders". Not only because their cardio systems may be behind their legs with regard to conditioning, but, also because, they simply haven't had or made the time to train their legs to higher cadences. Spinning isn't neccessarily natural. And when I say "spinning", I don't just mean higher cadence. I'm referring to an effective pedal stroke that utilizes more of your leg muscles and applies power to a greater percetage of the entire revolution. That takes practive and training. It starts with developing good pedaling technique, before worrying about how quickly your feet are going round de' round. "If" you have a reasonable fit "and" you've developed good "technique" then suddenly spinning at 100+ doesn't seem like such an issue.

Whether you choose to continue at that cadence is a matter of personal preference, terrain, objectives, etc.

"18 years old currently working towards my associate of arts, then moving on to dental school." This may explain above...

Was riding Sunday with another tall "masher", he said we were diesel engines, other spinners were 2 strokes. (killing ourselves at 23MPH) Everyone has a different comfort zone when it comes to cadence, and can vary on the same ride. I found this weekend when I concentrate on proper pedaling, I am able to go faster (duh), then when I get tired mentally I tend to pump up and down more - slowing me down more.

CJ C is correct "dont over think it and just ride, have fun, then repeat." :)

Some people don't enjoy the "Don't over think it just ride...". Some people's "over thinking" is another person's "just right" and they have to go further to "over think". I'm from an engineering background so unless I over think a bit, I don't enjoy it. Freaky to some, not to others.

For instance.... you mentioned that when you get tired mentally you pump up and down. Well I am similar in that I push down with one leg, pull up with the other instead of going in a circle with the "wipe the mud off the foot" pattern. That bugs me. So I have to get myself to where that is a habit and unless I get pissed at myself I won't get there. I'll enjoy it when I feel I am doing well for the time I have worked on it.

The OP was looking for advice on bouncing @86 rpm. Apparently he wants to spin. Let's let him.

Here you go Wonder Monkey, think away. ;) It's actually an easy read and very informative. Enjoy the read. Part 1

Cycling Cadence and Pedaling Economy by Ken Mierke[/URL]
Lance Armstrong's miraculous comeback from cancer and his domination in both the time trials and the mountains of the Tour de France have inspired many cyclists to imitate his extreme high-cadence style. The world watched Jan Ulrich appear to struggle up the climbs at 80 rpm while Lance rode away from him at 110 rpm. Many people wondered, 'Why doesn't Ulrich just shift to a smaller gear and spin faster?' Hasn't Lance proven to the world that very high cadences are better?
The answer is no. Lance rode away from Ulrich because he produced more watts per pound of bodyweight ' because he is a stronger cyclist - not because he has discovered a secret that Ulrich doesn't know. Should you mimic Lance's high cadence? Maybe ' I can't tell you that, but I will give you some information that will help you figure it out for yourself.
When you pedal a bicycle, your muscular system produces power to propel the bicycle and your cardiovascular system delivers oxygen, fuels the muscles, and removes waste products such as lactic acid. Selecting your optimal cadence is a matter of keeping these two systems in balance. The optimal balance is different for each person.
Spinning at higher cadences reduces the watts-per-pedal-stroke, a measure of the force required to produce a given wattage. This makes the workload more tolerable for the muscles. Most experts believe that this is because fewer fast-twitch muscle fibers must be recruited to create the high torque levels required at low cadence. Pedaling with a too-low cadence increases reliance on fast twitch fibers, causing premature lactic acid accumulation, which makes your legs burn.
Pedaling with high cadence, however, does waste some energy. Imagine setting your bike up on an indoor trainer and cutting off the chain. If you spun 100 rpm, the workload would be zero watts, yet your heart rate would elevate significantly above resting. Just moving your legs fast does use energy. Research has consistently demonstrated that cycling at 40 to 60 rpm generates the lowest oxygen consumption for a given wattage. Pedaling at too high a cadence overloads the cardiovascular system's ability to deliver oxygen to the muscles. The most obvious symptom of this is ventilatory distress.

Part 2
High-cadence pedaling works your cardiovascular system more, but reduces the relative intensity of the leg muscles. The key, then, is pedaling with enough cadence to keep your watts-per-pedal-stroke at a level that your muscles can handle, but at a cadence that will not overload your cardiovascular system. The optimal balance is different for every rider.
Lance Armstrong has an extraordinary cardiovascular capacity. His heart and lungs can deliver enormous quantities of oxygen to his muscles. Yet Lance does not posses huge, muscular thighs. His muscles are much more likely to be overloaded by high watts-per-pedal-stroke than his cardiovascular system is to be overloaded by the oxygen demand of the workload. Therefore, high-cadence pedaling, even at a slightly higher energy cost, is most effective for him. Jan Ulrich, on the other hand, is not gifted with the cardiovascular capacity of Lance, but has much greater muscle mass in the hips and thighs. His legs are able to withstand high watts-per-pedal-stroke, so he correctly minimizes the 'wasted' energy to prevent cardiovascular limitation. Both Lance and Jan pedal using the cadence that is most effective for their unique physiology.
Each cyclist brings a unique set of genetics and training to the sport. The basic rules are, if your legs hurt more than your lungs, increase cadence. If your lungs hurt more than your legs, use a lower cadence.
If you decide that higher cadence pedaling might be more effective for you, now is the time to accustom your body to the different demands. Until you have learned the skills to pedal at very high cadence for long periods of time, you will be less efficient. Begin to develop leg speed now and it will be smooth and natural by next year's race season.

Part 3
Each athlete must experiment to find the cadence that works best for him. As you experiment, keep the following factors in mind.
Plan to train at different cadences: Riding at a certain wattage at 100 rpm and the same wattage at 75 rpm produce different benefits. Specific, targeted training at higher and lower than your race cadence will pay big dividends. Even a high-cadence cyclists needs to do some low-cadence training to develop torque.
Train like you race: While this may sound contradictory to the last statement, it isn't. Specifically targeting a particular system with over-cadence or over-torque workouts is an excellent approach, but much of your riding should still be performed at close to race cadence. An athlete training efficiently performs 70 to 90 percent if his training significantly below the wattages they will be required to produce in competition. Many get lazy on their long, slow rides and pedal at a lower cadence. The reduced cadence may, in fact, be more efficient at the greatly reduced wattage. Remember, though, that the purpose of these workouts is not to be efficient during the workout, but to make you more efficient at race intensity. Disciplining yourself to maintain race cadence even when riding slowly is critical.
Give high-cadence time: If you decide that higher race cadence might work for you, understand that it may take months for your legs to develop the skills to create wattage efficiently at higher cadence. Cardiovascular conditioning also takes time to develop, so start well before the season and be patient.
Try weight training: If you find you lack the super cardiovascular power to ride efficiently at high cadence, weight training can help you develop tolerance to lower cadence, higher watts-per-pedal-stroke riding. In fact, weight training has been shown to increase cycling efficiency for almost every rider at every cadence.

The OP was looking for advice on bouncing @86 rpm. Apparently he wants to spin. Let's let him.

If he wanted to jump off a cliff should we let him? ;) Read the article I just posted. I hope the OP does too. I think you'll find it informative.

Here you go Wonder Monkey, think away. ;) It's actually an easy read and very informative. Enjoy the read. Part 1




Thanks! I do enjoy this type of thing.

"18 years old currently working towards my associate of arts, then moving on to dental school." This may explain above...

What? :twitchy:

If that was in regards to my age vs. experience then I can understand your assumption. Many members have been cycling longer than I have been alive, but that doesn't mean I am a beginner. Personally I think my pedal stroke is just fine, and I have never had anyone point out that I needed work. However, I do admit that I need to train myself to maintain a more efficient pedal stroke at higher a higher RPM. Which brought me to my second thought -- is a higher RPM actually more efficient? Why bother if the 80 RPM that I ride at fits me better? But after reading the replies I figure it would help to spin at a higher RPM on longer rides to give my muscles more of a break.

If he wanted to jump off a cliff should we let him? ;) Read the article I just posted. I hope the OP does too. I think you'll find it informative.

my cadence computer told me I was spinning 202 rpm's on Sunday's ride. I've never used technology to ride before, is this a waste of spin? or should I stop pedaling down cliffs?

my cadence computer told me I was spinning 202 rpm's on Sunday's ride. I've never used technology to ride before, is this a waste of spin? or should I stop pedaling down cliffs?

Pedaling down the cliff isn't the issue. It's the sudden deceleration at the bottom you have to worry about. If your confuser told you you were spinning 202 rpm's, it might be time to get a new confidant. ;)

so I put a computer on my bike to monitor cadence and on the first ride with it (5 miles) I had an average of 78 with which I'm happy with :) my question is: around 86ish and above I seem to start to bounce. Do I have my seat to high or is it a form thing that I need to work into? I was having a little bit of knee pain before which went away after I raised my seat (followed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0leyXz840&feature=related) to adjust my fit on the bike).
Nothing to worry yourself about --- the issue of bouncing.

If you continue on with cycling, a year from now the bouncing thing will be part of the past as your body becomes used to the motions.

I'm not discounting a proper seat position, it is important, but once you are set up properly, just go out and enjoy the riding experience.

"Optimal" cadence varies some from rider to rider. While I don't think I'm mashing, I tend to be the most efficient at around 85 rpm. That's where I strike a good balance between feeling it in my legs and breathing fairly deep and hard but still being able to hold a conversation. One of the guys I ride with is younger with a long lean physique and his preferred cadence is much higher than mine. When riding next to him all I can think of is "for God's sake shift up man" but he's happy.

As far as bouncing, I think the "wiping your foot" at the bottom of the stroke is spot on advice. I heard this late last season and gained a good 10 rpm without bouncing as soon as I tried it. I also started practicing some high cadence drills and even though my perferred cadence hasn't gone up, my maximum cadence is improving.

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Axiom http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=14158659#post14158659)
I can do a half century at 85 RPM, so your second statement must not be true for everyone.
http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Axiom http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=14165028#post14165028)
I also want to up my maximum ride distance from 30 miles to 50, and then 50 to a century.

OP - it had to do with the above statements, nothing to do with cadences.

Nothing wrong with wanting to learn, that is what most people are here for, but when your stories don't add up, people start questioning and wondering.

One thing you can do to work on a smooth spin is to pick up a fixed gear bike.

People always say that. I don't see it myself. I still pedal like an idiot.


Cadence for a big guy? My experience is that "90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range" applies to jackrabbit racers who weigh 130 lb. If you weigh, say, twice that, the dynamics are totally different (this is not opinion, this is physics). I'm far more comfortable pedaling at a slower cadence. I don't have a meter, but I bet my comfortable cadence is somewhere closer to 75 +/- 15 rpm. Is that optimum? If I wanted to be a racerboy, probably not. If I want to get around on the bike and ride for any kind of distance, yeah, maybe that is optimum for me (220 lb.) When you weigh 200 and up, I think mashing is a more normal thing to do, provided you don't have knee problems. Your knees are used to carrying the extra weight (compared to a 130 lb. jackrabbit); work them in the way they are accustomed when you walk.

One last thing: I was on my fixed gear bike with a group a few weeks ago and felt like I was bouncing all over the place. Another rider commented that my good form. I think the bouncing probably feels worse than it looks, and a combination of "minimizing it" and "getting used to it" translates into something approaching "good form."

If your lungs are limiting your performance than a lower cadence is required. If your legs are limiting your performance than you will want to go to a higher cadence.

What about when both my lungs and legs limit my performance?

What about when both my lungs and legs limit my performance?
Perfection!

What about when both my lungs and legs limit my performance?

For me, that's a plateau.