General Cycling Discussion - Sell or keep?

I have a 2001 gt aggressor that I love. However after reading how all aliminum frames will eventually fail I want to sell and buy a trek 820 steel frame.

I only ride dirt bike paths but I'm 6'1" 240 and worry about the stress my weight puts on the frame.

Am I over thinking this or should I sell? I have a willing buyer ($165). Or should I keep the bike I enjoy.

Any opinions?

It probably won't break. Keep riding it, save some money, and skip right over the 820 frame and get something cool. When you get to that point, too, you'll know more about cycling, your needs and wants, and when you think back to when you considered getting the 820, you'll be like, "glad I didn't bother with that." That's my .02¢ anyway.

Don't pay much attention to the aluminum will fail people because if that were a real problem far fewer MTB would be Aluminum and more would be steel. But they aren't so people ride what works. I have a Trek Steel MTB and once it is gone I won't be replaceing it with steel. Remember what your wheels are made of. Most MTBs no longer use Steel rims and what takes more abuse than the rim?

Not a real problem? :lol:


http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg

Aluminum bicycle frames age well and don't mind moisture. If you've been riding your aluminum framed bike fairly regularly throughout the years, at your present weight, then yes, you've subjected it to quite a bit of stress. OTOH, if you haven't been riding it that regularly throughout the years and only occasionally, or perhaps, just on the weekends, then you should most probably keep your bike and not sell it.

I've always relished the idea of buying a chromoly steel framed MTB and upgrading the fork and derailleurs to something really over the top.

^^ ouch! How did that happen?

If the bike isn't broken just keep riding it and save for a better bike then the Trek. Problem with inexpensive MTB's is that their heavy and the components are sub par. And actually the GT has better components then the Trek, so I would stay with it till more money comes.

By the way, here is what happens to CF MTB's...sometimes anyways: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUQXnYYdfIQ&feature=related Also see the two vid's in my sig line.

Problem is that there isn't a whole lot of mtb's built out of steel these days, mostly AL and CF, but there is one company who makes a decent one called On-One Inbred X5 26er but it's just a hair over $1,000, but if your wanting to spend $350 on a cheaper bike that will probably have to be replaced in 5 years, why not just save the money since your already a third of the way there? These bikes do come out of England so it's mail order only.

You could save some money and weight going with a non suspended front end if you don't really need it.

I'm not much into MTB'g though I do own a couple and their both steel, my best one is a Kona Lava Dome which is surprisingly light and tough but it has no front suspension which doesn't bother me since I don't ride in real rough stuff nor go as fast as I can off road.

Hopefully others will respond with more experience then I on MTB'g.

I have a 2001 gt aggressor that I love. However after reading how all aliminum frames will eventually fail I want to sell and buy a trek 820 steel frame.

I only ride dirt bike paths but I'm 6'1" 240 and worry about the stress my weight puts on the frame.

Am I over thinking this or should I sell? I have a willing buyer ($165). Or should I keep the bike I enjoy.
ALL frames, whether steel,alloy, CF or bamboo will EVENTUALLY fail for one reason or another. Whether or not it happens IN YOUR LIFETIME is the gamble.
I wouldn't get rid of it unless there was visible structural damage.

It's especially more of a gamble if your beating the bike up riding on tough off road rides.

I have a 2001 gt aggressor that I love.

Keep the bike you love. Buy a new one when it breaks or you fall in love with another bike.

ALL frames, whether steel,alloy, CF or bamboo will EVENTUALLY fail for one reason or another. Whether or not it happens IN YOUR LIFETIME is the gamble.
I wouldn't get rid of it unless there was visible structural damage.

Wrong.

A high quality steel frame does not have a finite life.

An aluminum frame does.

A carbon frame does.

Sell that chinese POS and get yourself a real frame.

Or listen to these guys and end up in a nursing home.
http://idriders.com/proflex/files/jason'sbroken9.5.jpg

The BS is strong in this thread...

You do realize that airplanes are made from aluminum, right? Are you seeing airplanes falling out of the sky everyday because 'all aluminum eventually fails'?

People love to snow you with their technobabble about how aluminum can only handle so many stress cycles, etc. This is all nice theory, but I think you will find, in practice, only a very small number of aluminum (or steel, or carbon) frames break. Just do a google search on 'broken aluminum bicycle frames' - you'll find very few actual reports of broken frames. This is the difference between theory and practice (and common sense).

Here is a question which none of the 'all aluminum eventually fails' crowd never addresses: 'what percentage of all aluminum bikes in existence have failed due to repeated stress?' - I don't know what that number is, but it has to be very small otherwise bike companies would have one heck of a lot of lawsuits to deal with.

You do realize that airplanes are made from aluminum, right? Are you seeing airplanes falling out of the sky everyday because 'all aluminum eventually fails'?

People love to snow you with their technobabble about how aluminum can only handle so many stress cycles, etc. This is all nice theory, but I think you will find, in practice, only a very small number of aluminum (or steel, or carbon) frames break. Just do a google search on 'broken aluminum bicycle frames' - you'll find very few actual reports of broken frames. This is the difference between theory and practice (and common sense).

Here is a question which none of the 'all aluminum eventually fails' crowd never addresses: 'what percentage of all aluminum bikes in existence have failed due to repeated stress?' - I don't know what that number is, but it has to be very small otherwise bike companies would have one heck of a lot of lawsuits to deal with.

So...if we were to search this forum for cracked frames, how many would be aluminum?:D

How many would be steel?

I don't really care about your chinese bike, but you are giving this man the wrong information.

They DO break, all the time.

If you are a big guy, it's more likely to break.

Fact, not opinion.

Get yourself a real bike.


Tom

You do realize that airplanes are made from aluminum, right? Are you seeing airplanes falling out of the sky everyday because 'all aluminum eventually fails'?

People love to snow you with their technobabble about how aluminum can only handle so many stress cycles, etc. This is all nice theory, but I think you will find, in practice, only a very small number of aluminum (or steel, or carbon) frames break. Just do a google search on 'broken aluminum bicycle frames' - you'll find very few actual reports of broken frames. This is the difference between theory and practice (and common sense).

Here is a question which none of the 'all aluminum eventually fails' crowd never addresses: 'what percentage of all aluminum bikes in existence have failed due to repeated stress?' - I don't know what that number is, but it has to be very small otherwise bike companies would have one heck of a lot of lawsuits to deal with.


I had to get back with you, smart guy.

What plane is made from aluminum?

Can you tell me about it?

Thanks.

Tom

I have a 2001 gt aggressor that I love. However after reading how all aliminum frames will eventually fail I want to sell and buy a trek 820 steel frame.

I only ride dirt bike paths but I'm 6'1" 240 and worry about the stress my weight puts on the frame.

Am I over thinking this or should I sell? I have a willing buyer ($165). Or should I keep the bike I enjoy.

You're worrying needlessly. If you were bombing downhills that's one thing, and that's .00001% of riders. Worry about whether you are saving enough money for your financial security, that's a genuine worry.

[QUOTE=THE ARS;14156797]Wrong.

A high quality steel frame does not have a finite life.

An aluminum frame does.

A carbon frame does.

Sell that chinese POS and get yourself a real frame.

Or listen to these guys and end up in a nursing home.


Or he could simply go to any local Single track MTB course and see what everyone is riding and decide that way.:D

That's why bridges and springs are all made of aluminum...wait, what are they made of?

[QUOTE=THE ARS;14156797]Wrong.

A high quality steel frame does not have a finite life.

An aluminum frame does.

A carbon frame does.

Sell that chinese POS and get yourself a real frame.

Or listen to these guys and end up in a nursing home.


Or he could simply go to any local Single track MTB course and see what everyone is riding and decide that way.:D

A lot of 240lb men riding ten year old aluminum mountain bikes there?

Tom

You're worrying needlessly. If you were bombing downhills that's one thing, and that's .00001% of riders. Worry about whether you are saving enough money for your financial security, that's a genuine worry.

Exactly.

Health has no bearing on your future earning potential.

http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv269/texasdirt_photo/DSC00104.jpg

Dude you are a bridge troll. Stop dispensing nonsense. Virtually all modern commercial airplanes, up to the recent explosion in carbon, are primarily aluminum. And I'll bet you don't like carbon either. Racing motorcycles are made of aluminum. I have a 10 year old MTB that I used to whale on that I now use as a round town bike to take my kids on rides. So stop trying to fill people's heads with what amounts to fear mongering lies.

I appreciate the responses. A little background may help.

I purchased my bike used last year. The man said his son won the bike in a contest when he was 16. Said his son rode it a few times and got his drivers license and pretty much left the bike in the garage. The man said that he didn't use it cause he rode road bikes.


Now the bike looked pretty flawless and only needed lube and light cleaning. The tires still had the new look and all. I was happy til I learned about aluminum failures. I searched and had a hard time finding bad info on my bike. What I did find was that bikes are made for riders who weigh 140-160lbs. This info has scared the hell out of me.

Although I'm not jumping or doing crazy drops I do stand up and pump through steep hills and stand up on bumps and most down hills to save my man parts. My guess is my weight plus my habits are killing the frame. When I add this to the unknown of my bikes real history I start panicking.

I know the trek 820 isn't top of the line but being steel I figured it should last me 4-5 years with maintenance at my lbs. also a steel frame would be a good base to upgrade components on.

Words, the only place aluminum bikes are considered dangerous is amongst a certain very vocal minority on the internet. Even low end mountain bikes can handle the abuse you are giving that bike. IDK who told you that bikes were built for sub 160 lbs, but with the possible exception of some very light road bikes, that is BS. On the other hand, if you like riding and a new bike will make you happier, than go out and do your part to jump start the economy.

Since that aluminum MTB has been just sitting around for the most part, you probably could get many years of use out of it, most probably more than just five or six years. However, if you'd like to just make one MTB purchase, the purchase of a lifetime, then the Trek 820 would be that bike. Once you've upgraded it and perhaps later placed a spectacular fork on it, it would become peerless. Peerless and awesome!

I've had similar thoughts lately about the Giant Boulder, too! Once you've got that chromoly steel frame, suddenly the possibilities become endless. The possibilities become endless, because you have more time to make better upgrade choices.

Thanks I'll ride mines and not sell it but will still buy a 820 this summer.

[QUOTE=Mobile 155;14157183]

A lot of 240lb men riding ten year old aluminum mountain bikes there?

Tom

In the US home of the supersize? You think those big guys aren't there? Have you looked at any of the ten best lists for MTBs in any of the mags? What sells more? What do most of the manufacturers sell more of? In fact I met Bill Walton at several Cycling events and what do you think he was riding? (not a little guy) I have nothing against steel except the weight and they rust. I don't care for the flex they provide but I can also see why they are favored by touring cyclists. Shoot even steel bikes upgrade to Aluminum bars wheels and seat posts. Yes there are some custom builders that can build someone a nice steel bike. But there is no need to go against the flow if you already have a bike and you are just starting out. Not when most people have moved to Aluminum anyway. The best advice a new person can get is , try before you buy, and see what others that ride in your area are riding. Chances are what works for your local riders will work for you. There is no reason for the OP to trade his Aluminum bike for a steel bike made in the same factory.

Thanks I'll ride mines and not sell it but will still buy a 820 this summer.

Now you are talking like a cyclist. N+1 is an infection that isn't a bad thing. You can't have too many bikes.

I have a 2005 Trek 6700 Hardtail MB. It's an aluminum frame. I ride it mostly on easy dirt / gravel paths, as well as on pavement ... it's my basic work horse. I have used it for some single track, but maybe only 20 hours worth. For this type of riding, I doubt the frame will give out. If you're a more hardcore mountain biker, then other materials may be more suitable.

I have a 2005 Trek 6700 Hardtail MB. It's an aluminum frame. I ride it mostly on easy dirt / gravel paths, as well as on pavement ... it's my basic work horse. I have used it for some single track, but maybe only 20 hours worth. For this type of riding, I doubt the frame will give out. If you're a more hardcore mountain biker, then other materials may be more suitable.

What other material would be more suitable? Over 90% of "hardcore" mountain bikers ride aluminum. The number might still be over 95% although carbon is starting to make some serious inroads. Hell over 90% of internet mountain bikers probably ride aluminum, and there are way more steel is real types on the interwebs than in real life!

I had to get back with you, smart guy.

What plane is made from aluminum?

Can you tell me about it?

Thanks.

Tom
http://www.aluminum.org/Content/NavigationMenu/TheIndustry/TransportationMarket/Aircraft/default.htm

Wrong.

A high quality steel frame does not have a finite life.

An aluminum frame does.

A carbon frame does.

Sell that chinese POS and get yourself a real frame.

Or listen to these guys and end up in a nursing home.
http://idriders.com/proflex/files/jason'sbroken9.5.jpg

I have a friend who just bought a used Shockwave. He weighs almost 300lbs and thinks those bikes are indestructable. I think he needs to see this picture.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I am amazed at the ignorance being spouted on here as if it were fact. Aluminum is a great material for mountain bike frames and is not likely to fail during the life time of most riders. That's why it is used for the vast majority of mountain bike frames. If you are afraid of aluminum, you should not ride a bike, given that the handlebars, cranks, rims, stem and other vital components are most likely made out of it. (Imagine what would happen if your stem or handlebars were to break suddenly).

There is a lot of confusion about fatigue limit. It is true that steel is better in this regard than aluminum, but it still doesn't make steel superior to aluminum in every application. Steel is not indestructible and many steel frames have broken in the past. So a picture of a broken aluminum frame proves nothing. I like steel frames (5 of my 6 bikes are steel) but I wouldn't hesitate to ride an aluminum frame if it were built by a real bike company (like Trek) and not bought from a department store.

PS - It is especially telling that the "The ARS", who is spouting so much nonsense, doesn't know that almost every airplane out there is made of aluminum. Please Mr ARS, go to an airport and find me just one steel airplane. Just one. I'm waiting...

So...if we were to search this forum for cracked frames, how many would be aluminum?:D ... They DO break, all the time.

Just because you see failed aluminum frames on the 'net doesn't mean that aluminum is significantly more prone to failure. How do the sales numbers stack up between aluminum and steel bikes nowadays? If aluminum outsells steel and has comparable failure rates, wouldn't it make sense that we'd see more failed aluminum frames?

Engineering is an art of compromises and any material can fail depending on which compromises are made. Want a bike that's impervious to frame failure? Sure, but it'll probably be a bit on the heavy side, whether it's made from aluminum or steel. Want a bike that's lightweight? Sure, we can do that, in a number of materials. But it'll probably be a bit more prone to failure since we'll push the envelope a little bit to get it juuuust that much lighter. Want that bike to be stiff, too? And without being too expensive? No wonder aluminum's so popular.


I had to get back with you, smart guy.

What plane is made from aluminum?

Can you tell me about it?

OK, but only since you asked so nicely...

Aside from the absolute newest composite designs, most modern airframes are built primarily from aluminum. A Boeing 747-400 is made of 74 tons of aluminum. The Boeing 777 is 50% aluminum. The structure of the brand-new Airbus A380, the largest airliner in the world, is 61% aluminum. 80% of an F-16 fighter's structure is aluminum. B-52 bombers are primarily aluminum and have an estimated service life of 37,500 flight hours -- about 4.25 years in the sky -- before metal fatigue becomes a concern.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I am amazed at the ignorance being spouted on here as if it were fact. Aluminum is a great material for mountain bike frames and is not likely to fail during the life time of most riders. That's why it is used for the vast majority of mountain bike frames. If you are afraid of aluminum, you should not ride a bike, given that the handlebars, cranks, rims, stem and other vital components are most likely made out of it. (Imagine what would happen if your stem or handlebars were to break suddenly).

There is a lot of confusion about fatigue limit. It is true that steel is better in this regard than aluminum, but it still doesn't make steel superior to aluminum in every application. Steel is not indestructible and many steel frames have broken in the past. So a picture of a broken aluminum frame proves nothing. I like steel frames (5 of my 6 bikes are steel) but I wouldn't hesitate to ride an aluminum frame if it were built by a real bike company (like Trek) and not bought from a department store.

PS - It is especially telling that the "The ARS", who is spouting so much nonsense, doesn't know that almost every airplane out there is made of aluminum. Please Mr ARS, go to an airport and find me just one steel airplane. Just one. I'm waiting...

Thanks for that post. There seems to be an theme that some have spread that Trek, Giant, Specialized, Jamis, Haro, Raliegh and Lapierre decided to design MTBs strictly by marketing without the help of engineers, pro riders and testing facilities. Then they disreguard the experience of multitudes of riders and customers that have successfully bought and used the machines developed by those same companies. About a month ago I was looking for a back up bike and started hunting for a more classic or vintage bike that I could at least put STI shifters on and a 130 rear spacing. I happened upon a 91 Klein pre-Trek. This bike was like new even after 22 years. Gary Klein was from MIT and should know something about frame material and the result was a classic Quantum with full Dura Ace 7403 front to rear. I was a bit worried about how the ride would be but with hand built wheels and 32 spokes it is just fine. Klein was right a quality long lasting bike not only could be built from Aluminum he built several. I still smile when I ride the Klein on weekends.

What other material would be more suitable? Over 90% of "hardcore" mountain bikers ride aluminum. The number might still be over 95% although carbon is starting to make some serious inroads. Hell over 90% of internet mountain bikers probably ride aluminum, and there are way more steel is real types on the interwebs than in real life!

Most hardcore mountain bikers are not 240 lbs. Having said that, I said 'may be more suitable' because I'm not a frame material's expert. Perhaps an aluminum frame would last with a 240 lb rider going over obstacles???

Yes Alf, yes it would. Not that clydes aren't harder on equipment, but aluminum is a perfectly fine choice for them.

It's especially more of a gamble if your beating the bike up riding on tough off road rides.

Got a mate that weighs 240 lbs and a Giant Boulder bought in 2000. Took him 9 years to break it and that was aggressive Offroad af about 2 to 3,000 miles a year.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I am amazed at the ignorance being spouted on here as if it were fact. Aluminum is a great material for mountain bike frames and is not likely to fail during the life time of most riders. That's why it is used for the vast majority of mountain bike frames. If you are afraid of aluminum, you should not ride a bike, given that the handlebars, cranks, rims, stem and other vital components are most likely made out of it. (Imagine what would happen if your stem or handlebars were to break suddenly).

There is a lot of confusion about fatigue limit. It is true that steel is better in this regard than aluminum, but it still doesn't make steel superior to aluminum in every application. Steel is not indestructible and many steel frames have broken in the past. So a picture of a broken aluminum frame proves nothing. I like steel frames (5 of my 6 bikes are steel) but I wouldn't hesitate to ride an aluminum frame if it were built by a real bike company (like Trek) and not bought from a department store.

PS - It is especially telling that the "The ARS", who is spouting so much nonsense, doesn't know that almost every airplane out there is made of aluminum. Please Mr ARS, go to an airport and find me just one steel airplane. Just one. I'm waiting...

Right on.

If the OP was asking about replacing a '70s or '80s aluminum frame I would say yes, definitely, but even then it would be less about the inherent fatigue characteristics of aluminum and more about the improvements in alloys and manufacturing processes.

I would recommend riding one of GT's classic steel triple triangle frames before buying the Trek. There's certainly nothing wrong with a steel Trek, but I've always preferred the feel of the GTs. And they look cool. I occasionally see them turn up dirt cheap on Craigslist, but rarely in my size.

You do realize that airplanes are made from aluminum, right? Are you seeing airplanes falling out of the sky everyday because 'all aluminum eventually fails'?

People love to snow you with their technobabble about how aluminum can only handle so many stress cycles, etc. This is all nice theory, but I think you will find, in practice, only a very small number of aluminum (or steel, or carbon) frames break. Just do a google search on 'broken aluminum bicycle frames' - you'll find very few actual reports of broken frames. This is the difference between theory and practice (and common sense).

Here is a question which none of the 'all aluminum eventually fails' crowd never addresses: 'what percentage of all aluminum bikes in existence have failed due to repeated stress?' - I don't know what that number is, but it has to be very small otherwise bike companies would have one heck of a lot of lawsuits to deal with.

Most modern aircraft have a mix of aluminum and carbon fiber structural components. ;)

Right on.

If the OP was asking about replacing a '70s or '80s aluminum frame I would say yes, definitely, but even then it would be less about the inherent fatigue characteristics of aluminum and more about the improvements in alloys and manufacturing processes.

I would recommend riding one of GT's classic steel triple triangle frames before buying the Trek. There's certainly nothing wrong with a steel Trek, but I've always preferred the feel of the GTs. And they look cool. I occasionally see them turn up dirt cheap on Craigslist, but rarely in my size.

I never see any steel GTs mine is '01 and it is a triple triangle frame. That feature is one reason I think may help my bike last some time. Whenever I get another bike it will be new, since I've already done the used craigslist way with the bike I currently own.

If you want new there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with riding a used (properly inspected, good condition) steel frame of any vintage you're likely to find.

Google didn't turn up a Darby CL, and I don't know Pa. geography well enough to know what's near you. Found these with a quick search of the Philly CL:
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/2988799400.html
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/2920560510.html
The posters didn't list tubing spec or provide pictures that would should the details, and since it's not near me I didn't go hunting to find out.

I've had two frames fail on me. Both were steel. But then, I've never owned an aluminum frame.

One was a Montgomery Ward 10 speed, its downtube pulled out of the bottom bracket while I was riding along a bikepath. Suddenly the bicycle felt soft like a Claes Oldenburg sculpture. The other was a Diamondback Ascent and one of the dropouts cracked.

If you want new there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with riding a used (properly inspected, good condition) steel frame of any vintage you're likely to find.

Google didn't turn up a Darby CL, and I don't know Pa. geography well enough to know what's near you. Found these with a quick search of the Philly CL:
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/2988799400.html
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/2920560510.html
The posters didn't list tubing spec or provide pictures that would should the details, and since it's not near me I didn't go hunting to find out.


Thanks, Upper Darby is right next to Philly.

Ive been looking on Craigslist and it seems when I find bikes that are nice and steel that they aren't my size. I bought my current bike off of Craigslist and would love to find the right bike at a discount. Frustration from looking is making me lean toward new.

I've had two frames fail on me. Both were steel. But then, I've never owned an aluminum frame.

One was a Montgomery Ward 10 speed, its downtube pulled out of the bottom bracket while I was riding along a bikepath. Suddenly the bicycle felt soft like a Claes Oldenburg sculpture. The other was a Diamondback Ascent and one of the dropouts cracked.

Ive heard that steel can fail but only with rust, crashing or a lot of abuse. What caused your bikes to fail?

Ive heard that steel can fail but only with rust, crashing or a lot of abuse. What caused your bikes to fail?

Words, you heard wrong. It's fine that you want a steel bike, but don't justify it with message board BS that aluminum is an inferior material. Any bike can fail. The vast majority (of any material) won't, under normal usage. And yes, a 250lb person rolling around on bike paths and fire roads and even single track is normal usage.

I've had two frames fail on me. Both were steel. But then, I've never owned an aluminum frame.

One was a Montgomery Ward 10 speed, its downtube pulled out of the bottom bracket while I was riding along a bikepath. Suddenly the bicycle felt soft like a Claes Oldenburg sculpture.
Cheap department store bike which probably failed due to a poor weld.

The other was a Diamondback Ascent and one of the dropouts cracked.
I have an Ascent. I generally like DiamondBack's pre buyout stuff (and I love the old Centurion road bikes). Was there any unusual stress to cause the brake?

I've had two frames fail on me. Both were steel. But then, I've never owned an aluminum frame.

One was a Montgomery Ward 10 speed, its downtube pulled out of the bottom bracket while I was riding along a bikepath. Suddenly the bicycle felt soft like a Claes Oldenburg sculpture. The other was a Diamondback Ascent and one of the dropouts cracked.

These problems could all have been resolved by welding.

Words, you heard wrong. It's fine that you want a steel bike, but don't justify it with message board BS that aluminum is an inferior material. Any bike can fail. The vast majority (of any material) won't, under normal usage. And yes, a 250lb person rolling around on bike paths and fire roads and even single track is normal usage.


When it comes to keeping your barbecue grill clean, or wrapping food, use aluminum. When it comes to making durable bicycles, use chromoly steel :lol:

Thanks, Upper Darby is right next to Philly.

Ive been looking on Craigslist and it seems when I find bikes that are nice and steel that they aren't my size. I bought my current bike off of Craigslist and would love to find the right bike at a discount. Frustration from looking is making me lean toward new.

If you need a much taller frame than you normally find you may want to talk to KOBE:
http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php/77789-KOBE

While I was looking at the Philly Craigslist I saw his Centurion:
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/2966160446.html

I posted a link to it in C&V and he said he's selling some of his "smaller" bikes.

Not a real problem? :lol:


You accidentally the whole thing. :lol: