Classic & Vintage - Alright what the trick installing a Presta tube?

I've gone through 2 Presta tubes trying to get them installed in my Paramount rear tire. Somehow or other I'm pinching a hole in the tube. This is my first time with smaller wheels and tires. :cry:

I've been using mild soapy water on the bead while pulling the tire off of the rim and re-installing. With my second try installing a new tube I stuffed the tube inside of the tire first and put a little air in it to get it straightened out.

if your changing the tube because you had a flat, you need to find out why you had a flat in the first place. there may be something in your tire(glass,thorn,nail ect.) you may have a spoke sticking up through or around the liner. or a rough spot on the inside of the rim. never use anything to take a tire off or put it on other than a tire lever or your hands. i do what you did last, put a little air in the tube, stick it in the tire and put on side of the tire on all the way around. then i start on the otherside making sure the tube isnt stick out, only using my hands.work that side all the way around.

Plastic tire levers, powder, put some air in the tube so it takes on a round shape before it goes on the rim. Double check your rim tape, you should not use a rubber strip as rim tape. It won't hold up to the pressure.

Actually rubber does hold up to high PSI. I have rubber rim strips in a 88 Fuji Club that came with the bike originally...surprisingly they were not rotted, but I had no problems with them at 110psi. I've since replaced the rubber strips with cloth only because I was afraid they might get too brittle and fall apart on a ride. Rubber strips will get brittle, and they can move around when your putting tires on and off without you knowing it, which could reveal a spoke end and then cause a leak when you go to inflate.

But the poster is saying he's getting a pinch flat, this means he's not getting the tube in as much as thinks he is. Right before you get that last 4 inches or so of tire on, start on the opposite side and squeeze the sidewall in and push the tire into the center channel of the rim and work your way around till you get to the part you can't get on easily. Doing that should provide enough space for the tube to stay inside the tire, it could also give you enough space for you to put on the last part of the tire without using any tools.

Here is a site that shows how to do that: http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/flattiresbyhand.htm
See this for more info: http://www.teamestrogen.com/content/asa_levers

This is what I do. Seems to work, and I (knock on wood) have gotten 2 flats in as many years. I inflate tube slightly, get it on rim (it will be loose), put tire on so both beads 'hang over' the sides of the rim. Then put one side of the tire on, then the other. It will be difficult -- use plastic levers. After you get the tire mounted, deflate the tube all the way before inflating. I like to do this so I can go around the rim and peel the tire back and make sure there are no pinched spots, esp. near the valve. Then, inflate to your preferred pressure.

This is assuming you've checked for debris/stray sharp things.

I'm also of the camp who put a slightly-aired tube into the tire before installation of the tube/tire.

I start with fitting one bead while putting the stem in the hole.

Then I work around the tire, getting the tube itself within the rim channel, which now usually leaves the remaining bead sitting against the ouside surface of the rim sidewall.

Then I start putting the remaining bead into the channel, and find it is easier to bleed off some air pressure from the valve as I finish installing the 2nd bead.

One should always get the last portion of the bead into the rim right at the valve stem, so that the stem isn't stealing away any slack from the rest of the bead!

After fitting the second bead, I push the protruding stem into the rim, and then pull it back out, just to make sure the tube isn't trapped under the bead there.

I also then work the tire to each side all the way around, to allow the tube to un-twist and to free any trapped portion of the tube under either bead.

Any deviation from the above steps can lead to problems in my experience.

With some tires and rims I have to really work the tire beads into the rim channel after releasing exta air, in order to free up the maximum amount of slack in the last bead. Not releasing air in a timely way usually makes the job very difficult.

Some tires are stiff, and so act to force the beads apart while you're trying to squeeze them together within the center of the rim. Arrrggghhh! Here it helps to maintain the installing force on the bead while using the other hand to squeeze the beads together all the way around. Letting off the mounting force (tension) will have the tire recovering the slack you've worked for.

Many tires will fit so tightly on a Schwinn steel rim that a lubricant like suds or alcohol is needed to get the tire to fully seat during inflation, and may also take more than one try from a deflated state in order to get the tire fully seated on both sides. This can be a major issue when having to inflate with only a small frame/pocket-sized pump!
Schwinn used these non-hooked-bead rims on bikes including tandems, so the tighter fit allowed the needed higher pressures without blowing off. I would use flat prevention methods with these for longer rides, especially since such wheels almost always have nutted axles.

Overly thick, or multiple layers of rim tape can make tire installation extremely difficult, as can thorn-resistant tubes or brand-new gmwalls with their sqweeky-clean and grippy bead seats.
I always attempt to remove and install tires without tools, but it is also possible to shear rubber and threads from the tire's bead by pulling the bead aggressively agross the edge of the rim (don't ask me how I know!).
EDIT: I said: "remove and install tires without tubes", but I meant: "remove & install tires without TOOLS"...(corrected).

Some combinations of rim and tire are really tough. This helps tremendously:
http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K

Pull tire and tube completely off rim. Set aside holed tube. Mount one side of tire in rim. Pump new tube to ca. 2-3 psi, just enough to give it shape. Insert valve in rim hole, then insert tube into tire. {N.B.: Tubes come in different sizes. You'll want to use the correct size, there is no way you can make a 38 mm tube fit into a 23 mm tire and have it work** Be prepared to work your way around a couple times in order to smooth out the wrinkles. Once all the wrinkles are out, mount second side of tire into rim. Inflate halfway, check for even bead-seating, inflate the rest of the way.

When I was working in a bike shop, I got so I could do this in between 3 and 4 minutes just idling along, and in under 2 if the customer was in a heck of a hurry. It's taken me longer to type than it would to do.

Pull tire and tube completely off rim. Set aside holed tube. Mount one side of tire in rim. Pump new tube to ca. 2-3 psi, just enough to give it shape. Insert valve in rim hole, then insert tube into tire.

That's what I used to do for many years, and presta valves gave me a lot of troubles with that method. Now I first insert valve, then mount the "back side" of tire all around the rim, then inflate tube slightly and stuff it into tire as far as possible, then mount the "front side" of the tire. Make sure the tire is "wrapped around" the tube from the start, around the valve. It helps to push the valve (and by doing that, the tube) partly into the tire. The last part to mount - right opposite valve - is the difficult part, and the place where one must take care not to pinch the tube. Most combinatins of rim/tire can be mounted by hand alone, but some will need a lever.

That's what I used to do for many years, and presta valves gave me a lot of troubles with that method. Now I first insert valve, then mount the "back side" of tire all around the rim, then inflate tube slightly and stuff it into tire as far as possible, then mount the "front side" of the tire. Make sure the tire is "wrapped around" the tube from the start, around the valve. It helps to push the valve (and by doing that, the tube) partly into the tire. The last part to mount - right opposite valve - is the difficult part, and the place where one must take care not to pinch the tube. Most combinatins of rim/tire can be mounted by hand alone, but some will need a lever.

What are you using for a plastic lever?

What are you using for a plastic lever?

Talk to your LBS. They normally sell them as four interlocking levers together for around $5.

Talk to your LBS. They normally sell them as four interlocking levers together for around $5.

There are no LBS in rural America.

I think most of us probably partially air up the tube as a starting point. One thing I do — and it may be redundant — is once I've got everything in place I will pump the tire up to around 40 psi or so. I'll bounce it a bit and check the overall seal, then let out most of the air. Maybe I'm overdoing it, but I feel like this is just a bit of insurance before fully inflating the whole shebang. Seems to work for me.

I do EXACTLY what dddd above does, and it works like a charm.

I did it, I actually did it all by myself. And I installed the new Presta tube without using any tools.

I also had the wheels relaced with double butted spokes and large flange Campagnolo NR hubs. Picture soon to follow.

Good for you! A strong pair of thumbs goes a long way. And you always have them with you.

Ice will help your thumbs stop throbbing.

Does anyone bother with patching tubes anymore?

I haven't in years. On my fat tire rig, I split the punctured tube down the center, remove the entire stem and put the new tube inside of it. The old one is normally somewhat stuck to the tire which helps.

I put one side of the tire on. Then I put a slightly inflated tube in, all the way in...
Then mount the other side making sure to not pinch the tube. I've never had problems, even with tight tires.

I think the big "secret" is plumping the tube so it doesn't go in wrong/folded/twisted/pinched or trapped.
Gotta remember to bleed out air as needed, as you proceed, and also to push the stem into the tire before inflating.
Using no tools, hard to go wrong?

Wheel?

What rims / tire are you using? Some combinations can be difficult.

I always try and use the smallest tube I feel safe using, in x23 or 25 tires I use a x20 tube so once I inflate it to give it shape it does not get too big to make it difficult to get the tire on.

You really need to try and get the tire on sans levers.

I generally put the tubing the tire (with a bit of air in it) and start at the valve stem mounting the tire and rim togather. I work the whole tire/tube on about 1/2 way then concentrate on one bead then the other. check to be ure the tube is not caught between the tirebead and rim before inflating.

Does anyone bother with patching tubes anymore?

Yes.

What rims / tire are you using? Some combinations can be difficult.

I always try and use the smallest tube I feel safe using, in x23 or 25 tires I use a x20 tube so once I inflate it to give it shape it does not get too big to make it difficult to get the tire on.

You really need to try and get the tire on sans levers.

I generally put the tubing the tire (with a bit of air in it) and start at the valve stem mounting the tire and rim togather. I work the whole tire/tube on about 1/2 way then concentrate on one bead then the other. check to be ure the tube is not caught between the tirebead and rim before inflating.

What BG sez, the only caveat is that I make sure to use a liberal dose of talcum powder to make sure everything slides easily and doesn't get hung up. I think this helps to keep the tube from getting caught between the rim/tire/lever. I also only use good plastic levers with nicely rounded edges. And yes, I still patch.

Woops, double post.

What rims / tire are you using? Some combinations can be difficult.

I always try and use the smallest tube I feel safe using, in x23 or 25 tires I use a x20 tube so once I inflate it to give it shape it does not get too big to make it difficult to get the tire on.

You really need to try and get the tire on sans levers.

I generally put the tubing the tire (with a bit of air in it) and start at the valve stem mounting the tire and rim togather. I work the whole tire/tube on about 1/2 way then concentrate on one bead then the other. check to be ure the tube is not caught between the tirebead and rim before inflating.

I've got Campagnolo Strada rims and Panaracer Pasela tires. The Presta tubes are Giant 700x18/23C.

Thanks for the input.

Wheel?

Campagnolo Strada.

if your changing the tube because you had a flat, you need to find out why you had a flat in the first place. there may be something in your tire(glass,thorn,nail ect.) you may have a spoke sticking up through or around the liner. or a rough spot on the inside of the rim. never use anything to take a tire off or put it on other than a tire lever or your hands. i do what you did last, put a little air in the tube, stick it in the tire and put on side of the tire on all the way around. then i start on the otherside making sure the tube isnt stick out, only using my hands.work that side all the way around.

I had the wheels re-laced with Campy large flange hubs. When I went to put the tires and tubes back on I must have pinched a hole in the tube.

Ditch the clinchers, use tubulars.

I agree with most respondents that the key is to use a partially inflated tube. I've begun buying tubes that are a size smaller than whatever tire I'm putting them in (width-wise), because they're simply easier to get into the casing and avoid pinch flats. I use talcum, even though Jobst Brandt has haughty disdain for the practice. I just like the smell. I'm a far bead/tube/near bead guy, and have no problems getting the stem into the hole because I consciously look for tubes with short stems. I also pump up tires in graduated stages: 30/deflate/50/deflate/80/deflate/top up to final pressure.

Does anyone bother with patching tubes anymore?

Yes, patching is cheaper than a new tube and they work just as well :)

There is a large range of tube sizes that can work in a particular size tire.

Trusting the numbers on the tube is much less accurate than measuring the width of the deflated tube layed flat.
The flat width of the tube is a good match for a tire with the same inflated width, but bigger and smaller tubes will work properly.

Smaller tubes in bigger tires will cause rapid deflation from the tiniest puncture since the hole gets stretched open, but a tube that's about as big as the tire will usually let you ride for a while without having to stop. The difference in tube weight might be only 30 grams.

I agree with most respondents that the key is to use a partially inflated tube. I've begun buying tubes that are a size smaller than whatever tire I'm putting them in (width-wise), because they're simply easier to get into the casing and avoid pinch flats. I use talcum, even though Jobst Brandt has haughty disdain for the practice. I just like the smell. I'm a far bead/tube/near bead guy, and have no problems getting the stem into the hole because I consciously look for tubes with short stems. I also pump up tires in graduated stages: 30/deflate/50/deflate/80/deflate/top up to final pressure.

Speaking of stem length. Why the heck are some of the stem so long? I bought one pair of tubes that were 48mm long. What's up with that?

Does anyone bother with patching tubes anymore?

I don't on lightweight bikes with narrow rims and tires. You can feel it going "bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump" when you ride.

I don't on lightweight bikes with narrow rims and tires. You can feel it going "bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump" when you ride.

I hadn't thought of that. It could put a bump on the tire where the patch is huh? :thumb:

Technique: I also put a bit of air in the tube to help it stay in the tire, bleeding air when needed.

Levers: I've recently started using Pedro's tire levers. One of the best levers I've ever used. Very sturdy and a good shape. They come in sets of two, and I've never felt I needed more than that. On the road bike, I just use the levers built into my Alien multitool.

Patching: Yes. I carry a spare tube and patch the bad one later on at my convenience. I also carry a patch kit in case I have more than one flat.

I don't on lightweight bikes with narrow rims and tires. You can feel it going "bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump" when you ride.

You must be doing something wrong.

You must be doing something wrong.


That sounds like the base of the valve stem rubber is trapped under the bead to me. I've never noticed the presence of a Rema patched tube, but can notice that a tire has been booted with thick material.

You can't feel a properly patched tube no matter the size of the tire.