Touring - Why wouldn't I tour on Open Pros?

Looking to build up a dynamo equipped wheelset for my touring bike and I can't decide on rims. There's plenty of bombproof options around, but I'm wondering if most of them aren't over-egging it.

I regularly see posts from clydes weighing 220 pounds (or more) espousing the strength of Open Pros. Given I only weigh 180 I figure I would have a bit of breathing room in terms of luggage.

I have that would be mostly described as ultralight gear, and I can't see wanting more than 20 pounds on the rear (I prefer putting as much up front anyways).

So, now's your chance to convince me the weight of something like A719s are worth it.

Cheers, Lachlan

No reason to convince you of anything. If you want Open Pro wheels go for it. What weight of tire do you plan on using?

You might consider the reason people "over-egg" on wheels is that there isn't a spare set of wheels available at the end of the days ride. If something happens to your wheels you don't ride the next day and drive to the bike shop for a replacement. If something happens to your touring wheels you don't ride. Now if you're argument is that a Open Pro is just as durable as a 565g 719 one might as well ask if they're overbuilding 435g Open Pros.

The only issue I could see with Open Pro's and touring, is what tire width you intend to use, I've used Open Pros with 23 & 25mm tires, should work with 28mm fine, but would look at a wider rim if using a wider tire. i.e. with 37mm tires, I'm using DTSwiss TK 7.1's which are about 5mm wider than the Open Pros.

I'm skeptical about using open pros for bike touring or I should say, I wouldn't do it. Get the mavic A719 which weigh around 130 more grams per rim. They will hold up a lot better than the open pros. Plus I'd get them in 36 hole. You are not going all that fast when touring to begin with but you are weighed down so you are much better off having rims that will get you to where you are going.

Edit: I'm not sure you need convincing since it seems as if you have made up your mind. All I can say is that I've done a fair amount of touring and there is nothing worse than being far from anywhere with a bike that is not working.

By the way, you should think about why touring is different (and harder on wheels). The rider can and does get his butt off the bike when he/she hits a bump which makes a life a lot easier on the wheels. If you have 30 or so pounds of extra weight (assuming that we are talking about full on touring with tent, sleeping bag, etc), the wheels have to be able to hold up with the extra weight. So the OP is mistaken, I think, to focus only on his weight in trying to guess-estimate whether the open pros will hold up for touring or not.

I regularly see posts from clydes weighing 220 pounds (or more) espousing the strength of Open Pros. Given I only weigh 180 I figure I would have a bit of breathing room in terms of luggage.

Really? Recently, all I see are complaints about how the latest Open Pros aren't nearly as durable as the ones being made several years ago. Lots of reports of rims cracking, spokes pulling through, etc. I've seen these reports in the Clyde and Road forums, among others. I don't think a light-weight wheelset is a bad idea, but I'm not sure I'd take a chance on the Open Pros...

Lets face it, this is the only bike
that'll satisfy purists for touring....:)247917

Really? Recently, all I see are complaints about how the latest Open Pros aren't nearly as durable as the ones being made several years ago. Lots of reports of rims cracking, spokes pulling through, etc. I've seen these reports in the Clyde and Road forums, among others. I don't think a light-weight wheelset is a bad idea, but I'm not sure I'd take a chance on the Open Pros...
This is true. I won't build with Open Pros anymore. The quality control is no longer there. You might get a wheel that will last 50,000 miles or you might get one that will start cracking 200 miles down the road. Even if I did build a wheel with Open Pros, I would not tour with them. And if a customer asked for them, I would refuse to build it. I just don't have enough faith in the rim.

I've got Open Pros that have been trouble-free with more than 20,000 miles of use and newer ones that cracked will just a few thousand miles. I had some Velocity Dyad 36H rims built for touring and they are much lighter and less expensive than Mavic 719s and reportedly just as durable. My LBS also built me some 32H DT Swiss 465s that my mechanic feels are more durable than 36H OPs.

By the way, you should think about why touring is different (and harder on wheels). The rider can and does get his butt off the bike when he/she hits a bump which makes a life a lot easier on the wheels.

Yep, bunny hopping with panniers, piece of cake!

You can tour on anything you want, all sorts of bikes tour the coast.

If you bring money , then you don't have to carry much more than a weekend amount of gear.
a few tools and clothes for changing weather..
AKA credit card touring..

should you damage the wheel, you can always buy another one.

Turn the question around and ask yourself why you would tour on Open Pros? Do you already have them, so it is a cost issue to buy another wheelset? Do you need the extra .25 mph a lighter wheelset will give you? Over a day, that could add up to a couple extra miles. Is the peace of mind from knowing your wheels are overbuilt or just right, rather than underbuilt, not worth a lot to you?

a lighter wheelset will not gain you an appreciable amount of speed, but it can delay you by a lot while you are trying to figure out how to replace the rim. My favorite rim right now is the Velocity Synergy, although I have been thinking about trying the A23's.

a lighter wheelset will not gain you an appreciable amount of speed, but it can delay you by a lot while you are trying to figure out how to replace the rim. My favorite rim right now is the Velocity Synergy, although I have been thinking about trying the A23's.


+1

I've been using 32 hole A23's with great results for more than a year. I have 4000 miles on one set with zero problems. I'm 210 pounds. If the route was 100% good pavement, I'd use the A23.

I'm using Velocity Dyad for gravel paths and roads.

favorite rim right now is the Velocity Synergy

I've built several with Synergy OC rim in 26", and I like them too for the dish reduction.

I'm thinking of building some disc-capable light tourer wheels with (700c) Aerohead OC. I found some for $45, cheaper than Synergy at $65, and I'm currently pinching pennies (and twenties). Have you tried the Aerohead OC?

I've built several with Synergy OC rim in 26", and I like them too for the dish reduction.

I'm thinking of building some disc-capable light tourer wheels with (700c) Aerohead OC. I found some for $45, cheaper than Synergy at $65, and I'm currently pinching pennies (and twenties). Have you tried the Aerohead OC?

I have Synergy's on two bikes, and Aerohead's on a third, all with OC on the rear.
Love 'em!:thumb:

a lighter wheelset will not gain you an appreciable amount of speed, but it can delay you by a lot while you are trying to figure out how to replace the rim. My favorite rim right now is the Velocity Synergy, although I have been thinking about trying the A23's.

Tough choice between the Synergy OC and the Dyad. I have two wheelsets but the Dyad is laced to Phil freewheel hubs and the Synergy to LX hubs. I rather ride the Phil just cause I like the bling, but it has nothing to do with the rim. Synergy rims are pretty sweet.(Dyads are too)

I regularly see posts from clydes weighing 220 pounds (or more) espousing the strength of Open Pros. Given I only weigh 180 I figure I would have a bit of breathing room in terms of luggage

If your breathing room of 40 pounds includes ALL GEAR (racks, panniers, helmet, shoes, camping stuff, tools...) and SUPPLIES (full water & max food). PLUS your route is paved then your 32-hole-open-pro's will probably work fine. If you're over that weight OR considering unpaved roads, I'd think twice.

there are other rims besides open pro's.
Ambrosio Excellence
Torelli Triumph(same as above)
DT Swiss RR 465
Mavic CXP 33

a lighter wheelset will not gain you an appreciable amount of speed, but it can delay you by a lot while you are trying to figure out how to replace the rim. My favorite rim right now is the Velocity Synergy, although I have been thinking about trying the A23's.

I have Synergy OCs front and rear on my touring bike. I've been very happy with them so far! Love the way they keep the spoke tension more even between the drive and non-drive (or brake and non-brake) sides of the wheel.

Twenty pounds is pretty light. One difference between a heavy rider and a light rider with gear is that the gear can't lift up a little to make things easier on the wheels when going over bumps.

I knew a guy who toured through Italy on 360gram sewup rims with panniers. He weighed 125lbs. My partner in the shop weighed 185lbs and he rode on light Rigida rims with 15lbs of gear.

I guess the real question is what reward you get using training/racing rims over touring rims designed for the load? After X trips do you say "yeehaw, my wheels are still round!"?

Lachlan, I have an older set of OPCDs that have been on a couple of my road bikes and they're great, on the road bike. True enough you can mount wide tires on a narrow rim as mountain bikes often are set up that way. My touring bike has CR18 rims and 35 mm tires. Just my opinion that a wide road tire works better with a wider rim. While nobody wants to grind more weight than they have to up a hill, a heavier wheelset and tire combo works well on the flats, much like a flywheel.

Your bike, your choice.

Brad

Hi all,


Sorry if I came off a bit obnoxious, I wrote the message quite late at night and didn't put much thought into it.


Thanks for your feedback. Especially valuable is the advice about the drop in QC at mavic and also the consideration about the fact touring weight can't react to the road.

I should have specified this wheelset will not be touring only, and will serve as a general commuting and winter training set, so I don't want to carry potentially unecessary weight 100% of the time for the small % I am actually touring. However, you have convinced me I should find a better compromise.


At a bike shop the other day I was discussing this issue. I was mentioning dyads, but the guy there recommended the H+ Son TB14. Partly because of the aesthetic, which suits my Bob Jackson, but partly also because they weigh the same as dyads but are a little more engineered (double eyeletted, welded instead of pinned, reinforced valve area). They're quite a new rim, but does anyone have experience with them?



Cheers, Lachlan

best way to address unnecessary weight is with the extra 10lbs of racks, lock, lap top, beer, books, etc. After that look at lighter tires as well as building the front wheel differently than the rear. Commuting and training wheels aren't supposed to be light, they're supposed to last, once you put the expectation of carrying a pannier load on your everyday wheels why not go for durable? For the extra 100grams in the heavier rear rim you can put on a 300 gram tire instead of a 450gram touring tire. Ta Da, you now have lighter wheels.

I should have specified this wheelset will not be touring only, and will serve as a general commuting and winter training set, so I don't want to carry potentially unecessary weight 100% of the time for the small % I am actually touring. However, you have convinced me I should find a better compromise.

You won't notice an extra couple of hundred grams in wheel weight. As my friend Gary always says: you'll shed more weight by visiting the restroom before you get on the bike than you will by buying lighter parts :D The PowerTap wheelset I use on my road bike is a good 250-300g heavier than my Easton EA90 wheelset. In a blind test, I don't think I could tell the difference. And looking at the data from my Garmin Edge 705, it can't tell the difference either...

I have Synergy OCs front and rear on my touring bike. I've been very happy with them so far! Love the way they keep the spoke tension more even between the drive and non-drive (or brake and non-brake) sides of the wheel.

Just to clarify for the unaware, the OC means Off-Centre, and applies only to the rear wheel. It is designed to even up the spoke length and therefore create a more even tension on the left and right.

I did tour with lightweight rims, specifically the Aeroheads, with the rear an OC and with 36H front and rear. I suffered spoke pull-through and extensive cracking around the spoke holes on the rear wheel. This was around seven years ago. Both were factory-built wheels. Replacement on the first was a warranty job. I ditched the second as I was living in another State by then.

To be fair, the second set of rims did get a bit of a beating, including gravel roads, some quite heavy loads, and so on. I did fit them originally for randonneuring, and the first pair weren't treated particularly badly.

The tyre width limit on them was about 28C, in my experience. Any wider, and the pressure needed to be up near the maximum for the tyres, and under that, they were very swimmy, to the point of almost rolling off the rim.

I replaced the wheelset with Velocity Dyads on Velocity hubs (in fact, another pair of factory wheels). They're OK in my experience, although I didn't tour extensively on them.

I opted for Mavic A719s for our new bikes, based on our experience with them on the tandem. I can't give a definitive answer, but I think the A719s I have built on XT hubs are a little lighter than the Dyads, but I could be proven wrong with a scale if I could be bothered going to the trouble of removing tyres and stuff. I like that they are eyeletted compared with the Dyads.

The essential thing, in my opinion, is that whatever wheel the OP decides to go with, get it well built. He will have to decide the tyre width he desires, and what trade-off he wants to make in comfort if he chooses to go with a lightweight, narrow rim with narrow, higher-pressure tyre.

One little point, too, about fitting rims that are narrower than what is already on the bike -- look seriously as how the brakes are readjusted.

Mavic A719s are considerably heavier than Velocity Dyads -- about 85 grams per rim. Altho Dyads do not have double eyelets, the rim is semi-aero, adding more strength. Dyads weigh 480 grams and Synergys about 490 grams, compared to 565 grams for Mavic 719s.

Ask your mechanic about DT Swiss 465s. My mechanic is considered one of the best wheel-builders in our region, with considerable experience wrenching for pro teams. He says the DT 465s are incredibly strong and recommended those over any other rim for my purposes -- regular commuting and occasional touring. DT recommends their TK 520 rim for touring. It is a little heavier than the 465 (545 g vs. 470 g) but is wider. Both DT rims have double eyelets.

Just to clarify for the unaware, the OC means Off-Centre, and applies only to the rear wheel.

Or a front wheel with a disc brake, which is why I use the Synergy OC both front and rear...