"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Tips for someone who puts his nose in the wind too much

I have a really bad habit of being far too edgy and jumpy currently (Cat 5), I jump at almost every attack, and ride the front of the field too much. I do understand that the knowledge and experience comes with races but any tips the strategists here might be willing to share would be appreciated (CDR, shovel, and others I am looking at you). Any tips on reading the peloton for when it is a good chance to attack/ the best positions to take?

For example I tend to drag the peloton out a good bit when I take the front. Whenever I pull off I am always hesitant of dropping too far back and risking missing a good break so I slot in somewhere in the 5-7 position when someone lets me in. In those situations I find myself pulling in the wind again quite quickly. Any tips?

Tips for someone who puts his nose in the wind too much

I have a really bad habit of being far too edgy and jumpy currently (Cat 5), I jump at almost every attack, and ride the front of the field too much. I do understand that the knowledge and experience comes with races but any tips the strategists here might be willing to share would be appreciated (CDR, shovel, and others I am looking at you). Any tips on reading the peloton for when it is a good chance to attack/ the best positions to take?

For example I tend to drag the peloton out a good bit when I take the front and whenevr I pull off I am always hesitant of dropping too far back and risking missing a good break so I slot in somewhere in the 5-7 position when someone lets me in in those situation s and as such I find myself pulling in the wind again quite quickly. Any tips?

don't.

You jump at almost every attack, but so does every other cat 5. Unless you have an FTP of at least 340 watts, you're not going to solo anywhere (and neither is anyone else, except for those phenom's on the fast track to Cat 1). Every single rider in the pack is going to chase as hard as they can until they blow up and give it to the next guy, who'll do the same.

Sit 10-15 riders back. Sit at the very back, even; it doesn't matter. When you find yourself at the front, sure, pull for maybe 25-30 pedals strokes, hard-ish if you want, but get off the front after that. You need to experience the race from all parts of the pack in order to become a better bike racer. Take the time, have the patience, to teach yourself different methods of racing.

PS - you already knew what the answer was. Now act on it.

I just posted in the wheelsuck thread something that would apply:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/816299-How-do-you-deal-with-a-wheel-sucker?p=14191374&viewfull=1#post14191374

Hey, I wrote a very long blog post about how to win a rolling road race: http://physicsofsuffering.blogspot.com/ Ignore the first two paragraphs and it should be a worthwhile read about racing tactics for a longish RR without any major hills.

Learn when to attack. Learn which people are weak so that you can ignore their attacks. If an attack goes, try letting the strong people chase it and then counter.

The "every cat 5 chases everything that moves" line comes with the caveat, "but they will rarely work together to bring it back." Learn to exploit this. You just need to work hard enough to get a reasonable gap for 1 minute or so, then everybody will get tired and give up. You just need to be a strong TTist, and get off the front with a few others willing to work with you. Do whatever it takes to establish a gap, then work smoothly to keep/increase it.

NEVER pull the field. If you find yourself on the front, make it top priority to get (safely) out of that position. A few pedal strokes, then pull over. Hincapie said "never put your nose in the wind without a reason." There are plenty of reasons to be on the front, but if you can't think of one, get out of there. Plus, the best place to attack is from 10-ish guys back anyway.

My 4-3 upgrade was based solely on points I'd gotten from solo or small group breakaways. The people who keep saying that breaks never work in the lower categories are the reason that your breaks can work. You just need to have the fitness and learn the correct strategy to use it.

a wise former BFr once said "do as little work as possible until the perfect moment and then punish everyone else for doing more work than you"

You jump at almost every attack, but so does every other cat 5. Unless you have an FTP of at least 340 watts, you're not going to solo anywhere (and neither is anyone else, except for those phenom's on the fast track to Cat 1). Every single rider in the pack is going to chase as hard as they can until they blow up and give it to the next guy, who'll do the same.

Sit 10-15 riders back. Sit at the very back, even; it doesn't matter. When you find yourself at the front, sure, pull for maybe 25-30 pedals strokes, hard-ish if you want, but get off the front after that. You need to experience the race from all parts of the pack in order to become a better bike racer. Take the time, have the patience, to teach yourself different methods of racing.

so that's what it takes.

Maybe a little high. Whatever it takes to match/beat the average speed for a cat 4/5 race, which is usually 21-23mph for road. For my cdA that'd be about 300 watts.

get fast enough to be able to drop everyone.....or just draft a little more.

so that's what it takes.

nope, i cant solo away :)

Maybe a little high. Whatever it takes to match/beat the average speed for a cat 4/5 race, which is usually 21-23mph for road. For my cdA that'd be about 300 watts.

that kind of thinking will get you nowhere but pack fodder forever.

i agree that experiencing racing from all parts of the pack will allow one to become a better bike racer, but the rest of your post has more wrong that right about it.

don't.

this.

knowing which attacks to follow and staying sheltered in the field are kind of two different issues. if you find yourself on the front, just go a few pedal strokes and pull off. if no one comes through, that's not your problem...just soft pedal until they go around you. if they yell at you, ignore them. you have no obligation to pull the field around (unless you're chasing down a break for a teammate or something). i used to do the same thing; i like working hard, and when i started racing last spring, i didn't feel like i was racing if i wasn't working hard. i spent too much time on the front, chasing breaks, etc., and it took me until halfway through this season to really get better about that (still working on it, though). i got fed up with people blowing by me at the end and finally accepted the fact that if i wanted to do well, i had to do as little work as possible unless i was attacking or in a break.

as for choosing attacks...that's harder and i think it just takes experience. i'm not yet at the point where i can give advice about it - although i will say that it really helps to know your opponents. i raced collegiate with the same group of guys all spring, so i knew who was strong and who wasn't and therefore which attacks were likely to stick. so if you're racing in the same region, try to learn some of the familiar faces.

Op - pretty much what botto said.

to expound, anticipate when you're going to end up on the front and attack. make other people suffer to catch you instead of following in your draft. when you get caught, either attack again or sit in, take a breather, and go again. if you do that, attack from about 4th or 5th wheel so that when you go by the front of the pack you have a head of steam and no one can easily jump on your wheel.

never ever pull the field around unless you have a reason (team mate is in a break and you're controlling pace, you're part of an organized lead out or chase, etc. - none of which applies to a cat 5).

Maybe a little high. Whatever it takes to match/beat the average speed for a cat 4/5 race, which is usually 21-23mph for road. For my cdA that'd be about 300 watts.

disagree. i was in a break earlier this season where our average speed was lower than the average speed of the field before the break. we stayed away, largely thanks to one of my break-mates' teammates in the field.

i think whether the attack works depends as much on timing and on who's in the move as it does on how fast you're actually moving once you're out there. if a field of 40 or 50 guys decides they really want to chase you down, you'd have to be pretty strong to hold them off, even if they're cat 4/5s. the issue is more that at that level, they often have a hard time organizing a chase.

the issue is more that at that level, they often have a hard time organizing a chase. At any level sometimes. Even the pros let things go and get burned.

The best time to go is when everyone else is

a) gassed.
b) sure you can't stay out
c) thinking you're just chasing an attack down yourself.

Be patient. If you try to jump in every break you'll be too tired to cover them all or survive if one does stick. If you do jump, commit 100%. If you look back and things are single file, there's only one guy on the front to bring you back right away. Watch for opportunities. Trying to be the guy not breathing heavy when those around you are. There's a lot of nuance to this but Wim had it right:

"I attack when I'm hurting. If I'm hurting, the others are dying"

In most Cat 5 races there are really only a few people willing to go to the front and bring something back. Figure out who they are, wait till they are tired. Then drill them.

that kind of thinking will get you nowhere but pack fodder forever.

i agree that experiencing racing from all parts of the pack will allow one to become a better bike racer, but the rest of your post has more wrong that right about it.
+1

disagree. i was in a break earlier this season where our average speed was lower than the average speed of the field before the break. we stayed away, largely thanks to one of my break-mates' teammates in the field.

i think whether the attack works depends as much on timing and on who's in the move as it does on how fast you're actually moving once you're out there. if a field of 40 or 50 guys decides they really want to chase you down, you'd have to be pretty strong to hold them off, even if they're cat 4/5s. the issue is more that at that level, they often have a hard time organizing a chase.

i hear repeating a punchy hill every 2 miles take a lot outta the legs. you don't have to be faster than you were the previous lap, you just gotta be faster than the people chasing you. c'mon, haven't you learned this after your solo win ;)

also, i guess they must not teach you basic arithmetic at those fancy elitist schools you attend:

i have 23.1 mph for the first 4 laps and 23.5 for the last 6.

If it sounded like I was saying "if you can't solo off the front then you shouldn't attack", that's not what I meant.

i hear repeating a punchy hill every 2 miles take a lot outta the legs. you don't have to be faster than you were the previous lap, you just gotta be faster than the people chasing you. c'mon, haven't you learned this after your solo win ;)

well, yeah...but my point was that if you're sitting in the field and looking at your speedometer at any given point in the race, you don't necessarily need to go faster than that to win in a breakaway. all depends on the situation. but FWIW, yes, i did go faster on my own...20.4 avg in the pack for 2 hours and then ~22 for the last 45 min solo. so sometimes it helps :)



also, i guess they must not teach you basic arithmetic at those fancy elitist schools you attend:

i have 23.1 mph for the first 4 laps and 23.5 for the last 6.

arithmetic?

i actually have the exact opposite - 23.5 before and 23.1 after - but i split it after 5 laps, which (i think) is when i joined you.

was jus yanking your chain :p

Patience. If there's one factor, that's it.

I have a really hard time with it sometimes. I tend to race very aggressively. I have a sprint that can win races under the right conditions but it's not good enough to rely on, so I want to be in the break whenever possible. There are guys I have to mark, because they are strong enough to get away and stay away solo (Cat1's). I want to get away with them. We've stayed away before. They know me, I know them. So patience is really hard to come by in those situations, and you have to rely on your ability to read the race to guide you, something that comes with experience.

OP, for your next crit, do this. Sit in the field, about mid pack and just ride. If you filter up during a lull, filter back. Don't fight for wheels. Just go with the flow. At around the halfway point, start moving up to the front 10. Attack after a lull, after a prime, after a failed break, at some point where it makes sense. Do it at a course feature, i.e. sharp corner, hill, before a tailwind section. Drill it flat out, seated if possible. Don't look back for at least 30 seconds. Just drill it for 30 seconds. Then look back, see what damage you've caused, and take it from there.

I'll repeat what someone else has already said: Don't attack off the front.

Attack from 5-10 riders back so that you have a good bit of speed by the time you reach the front, making it harder for them to accelerate with you and easier to build a gap. When you attack from the front, the riders behind you just go with you and you tire yourself out pulling the field.

I'll repeat what someone else has already said: Don't attack off the front.


I dunno. I attack off the front and it seems to work occasionally.

Same here.

I dunno. I attack off the front and it seems to work occasionally.

I'm not saying it can't work, but in the 5s, going off the front is a lot tougher, from what I have seen, than from attacking from a few spots back. Plus in the 5s, the guys attacking off the front often are trying to go after they've spent some time in the lead and don't have as much in the tank to really get a good gap.

I am guilty of this as well...

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/somnifac/rir01.jpg

I am a stupid cat 5 though.

I'm not saying it can't work, but in the 5s, going off the front is a lot tougher, from what I have seen, than from attacking from a few spots back. Plus in the 5s, the guys attacking off the front often are trying to go after they've spent some time in the lead and don't have as much in the tank to really get a good gap.

Granted I was only a 4/5 for a short time but I'm somewhat skeptical that poorly executed and timed attacks are limited to people on the front, or that attacking from the front in a 5 race is much different than attacking from the front in a 1/2 race.

I can think of any number of situations where an attack from the front is the best way to get separation. And many more where it's a very bad idea.

But I think there is a baby swimming in the bathwater here that your advice may have missed.

My own very tentative view as a first-season, very elderly racer is that I'm just not strong enough to ride at, or off, the front. If I am to have any chance of being involved in the finish I need to look after myself through the race and use as little energy as possible by hiding in the bunch.

The bad news is, I am no sort of a sprinter. So waiting for the last 500 meters isn't going to cut it. I conclude that I have to get smarter, and watch what is going on, and potentially attack when ebryone else is gathering themselves for the finish but not so far out that I am toast before the line. Tricky business.

The bad news is, I am no sort of a sprinter. So waiting for the last 500 meters isn't going to cut it. I conclude that I have to get smarter, and watch what is going on, and potentially attack when ebryone else is gathering themselves for the finish but not so far out that I am toast before the line. Tricky business.

Staying off the front as everyone ramps up for the finish can take even more strength due to the speed of the pack at the finish, and late attacks like you describe are expected. You may get better results by creating/joining an earlier break, and getting the pack to give up the chase. If you get a big enough gap, especially if the course lets you get out of sight, many packs will ease off to a pretty slow pace. And if they are still chasing, there may be only 1 or 2 guys doing the work which puts a break on equal footing, effort-wise.

I am guilty of this as well...

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/somnifac/rir01.jpg

I am a stupid cat 5 though.

I'm in that field. That photo looks like it was taken with about two laps to go.

You also attacked and went off the front with another rider right after that picture was taken, didn't you?

Not really a bad move - I count at least three teammates around 6-10 wheels back who could easily block for you.