I like the bike shop and the owner is a nice guy ( names withheld ) but...when I asked if he carried any recumbent accessories he told me, " we no longer carry recumbents because of the 'urban environment' we are in. Bents are great for the trails and country roads but not for the 'urban environment'." Those are very nearly his exact words.

I would understand if he said, "that is not our market." I would understand if he said, "we cater to the messengers." As unlikely as it might sound, I would have understood if he said, "I was seriously dissed by a bent rider and no longer want them in my store." This just seems like such a stupid answer.

It is my understanding that there are a few bent riders in urban environments.
Could it be that I really am the only one riding a bent in a big city?

tom o. in Chicago.

PS. I did not take offense but I now know not to bother returning to the shop for my bent needs.

My commute takes me through the heart of downtown Elyria. Not nearly as big as NYC, Seattle, Albuquerque, etc. but I'm still in busy urban traffic none the less. No problems. Might be a tad more difficult on an LWB as opposed to a SWB but still doable. I think his sales were down and wanted to get out of 'bents. Possibly not due to the "urban environment" either. I wonder how long it will be before he folds his tent because he may eventually perceive an issue of all bicycles in an "urban environment".

'bent Brian

Good point. He is in a cyclist rich area but there is very good competition.
He is a nice guy and was very helpfull when I rode a df.

Well, there's a good few StreetMachine GTs (including mine) being ridden around London, and it doesn't get more urban than that!

Seriously, I have always found that it is easier to ride my 'bent around London, than my upwrong. On a regular bike, you're just another menace cyclist, on a 'bent you're something different, on a faired 'bent you're almost a 'proper vehicle'. Given the choice, I always take the 'bent when I go into London.

At least you have a local club "Chicagoland Recumbent Riders". Is that based near you?

I'm in the middle of nowhere, Iowa.

Cornfields, gravel roads, and red pickups.

I did not take offense but I now know not to bother returning to the shop for my bent needs.

That's the first step in going out of business. But I wouldn't ride my bent in urban traffic. Heck, I wouldn't ride any bike in urban traffic.

There are a *lot* of recumbents in Minneapolis, MN, both on the bike trails and on the city streets. I actually got into recumbents because I felt they gave me better visibility of the road ahead... my last wedgie bike was totaled when someone opened a car door and I didn't see it because I was facing the pavement.

I own a Rans Stratus (LWB), which I ride in an "urban environment" @65% of my ride time ..... no different than when I rode my DF in the same environment - I'll amend that statement, by sayinghat I feel MORE SECURE riding my Stratus than I did on my DF, all things considered.


msm
Northern, IL (when is the snow going to let up ?)

There are mainly two reasons why I prefer recumbents in an urban environment: 1. The visibility is better. 2. The effect of braking is much much better. 3. If you should fall off the bike the ground is nearer you and you won't be hurt to the extent you will be on an upright bike.

There are mainly two reasons why I prefer recumbents in an urban environment: 1. The visibility is better. 2. The effect of braking is much much better. 3. If you should fall off the bike the ground is nearer you and you won't be hurt to the extent you will be on an upright bike.

That's three. ;)

The only complaints I have is parking and maneuvering while not riding the bike. Running errands is a bit more of a pain when locking up and such. A short wheel base is a good choice.

There are still a few shops around Chicago that carry recumbents. Much better to have a few shops with deep experience and interest than several with shallow exp and int. All that about urban environment is probably just salesman talk for .... "we don't carry them so you shouldn't want one"

I ride my Tour Easy all over the urban environment of the Phoenix metro area, almost always on the streets. I feel safer on it than on my diamond frame bike. Anyone with decent bike handling skills and knowledge of how to ride safely in traffic can probably get around just about any city on a recumbent.

There are mainly two reasons why I prefer recumbents in an urban environment: 1. The visibility is better. 2. The effect of braking is much much better. 3. If you should fall off the bike the ground is nearer you and you won't be hurt to the extent you will be on an upright bike.
Re #1. Do you have eyes behind your head or do you have some secret that you can share about seeing cars behind you? Visibility above me is better on my bent than on a wedgie but that is about the only place.

Do the burbs count as city? There are a lot of bents in the Minneapolis suburbs.

Re #1. Do you have eyes behind your head or do you have some secret that you can share about seeing cars behind you? Visibility above me is better on my bent than on a wedgie but that is about the only place.

I have rear view mirrors on my trike. My line of sight is better on the trike in all directions.

I live in a smallish city, Salt Lake City. I can not speak to NY, LA or London.

When I moved here I had a touring bike, Miata 615, that was great on the open road. But, you had to be in a forward leaning position to use either the brakes or the shifters. It was hard to keep my head up enough to see what was happening on the road.

I bought a Specialized Rock Hopper with street tires for city riding. My head was up, brakes and twist shifters in easy reach. Unfortunately, the carpal tunnel nerve damage was the price that I paid.

Since, I have ridden the trike for 2-1/2 years, about 7500 miles, I have felt the safest. The trike is dangerous in that it is so low that it can hidden behind parked cars. But, balance is not an issue so you can slow down at risky intersections and take your time to get it right. You can not easily catch your wheel in some road obstacle and be thrown to the ground. (A hair brush in a wheel once caused me to do a flip into the pavement on my ATB.) You can slam on your brakes in an emergency and not go down.

All that said, I do not ride at rush hour on major streets. For my kind of riding, the recumbent trike has proven to be the best and safest urban vehicle.

Regards

Gary,
Greenspeed GTO

I've been riding and commuting in the downtown Minneapolis, St Paul and surrounding suburbs for over twenty years on a recumbent... it works great.

Don't be so sure about not getting hurt. I had a slip and fall on some wet leaves in October. I managed to seriously break my right femur, the largest and most difficult bone in the body to break. I was in the hospital for 3 weeks and out of work for 2 months. Granted, it was a freaky accident; the surgeon could hardly believe I did on a bicycle, let alone a recumbent. I'm back on the bike, but I'm getting a trike as soon as I get my tax refund!


There are mainly two reasons why I prefer recumbents in an urban environment: 1. The visibility is better. 2. The effect of braking is much much better. 3. If you should fall off the bike the ground is nearer you and you won't be hurt to the extent you will be on an upright bike.

Seeing behind your back is not a problem at all. All you have to do is get yourself a mirror that you attach to your arm or your hand. I have made one myself and I see everything from behind that is moving towards me.

To tell you the truth I have fallen off my recumbent at high speed at least three times without breaking any bone. I think this is due to the fact that most of the time when you fall you are likely to land on your side like a tree. In that way a large proportion of your body will damp the fall. I commute every day even when it's winter and snow. I'm sorry you have had such bad luck!

Ouch! Breaking bones via falls from a recumbent isn't unheard of, but it's not the norm. I've gone down countless times. Usually I'm on the ground before I know what happened, so it's not that I'm 'falling smart' or anything; there just isn't enough vertical speed to cause any damage. Road rash, though, is another matter entirely! :eek:

As near as I can tell, the bike flipped, rather than just fell over. It went down in such a way, and with such force, that my right thigh was slammed against the pavement. I was going downhill about 15 or 16 mph when I hit a patch of wet leaves. I usually do 27 to 30mph on this particular hill. The oddest thing to me, was that there was no road rash at all, just the busted bone. I didn't even know I broke anything. I thought I would catch my breath and get up. Of course I couldn't get up, and then noticed my right foot turned the wrong way round. I used my cell phone to call 911. I was on a bike trail in a remote area early on a Sunday morning. The only damage to the BikeE was a small tear on the side of the seat.

I've always used the "You don't have far to fall" line when doing the recumbent talking points to interested folks. Now they see me limping when I'm off the bike and ask if I use the recumbent because of my limp. "No, the limp is because of the recumbent." I'm still pretty nervous about going fast down hill, even on clear dry days.

Jeeze, thank goodness you had the cell phone. That would have been horrible if you had to wait for someone to come by, and then there'd still be no gauruntee they would have a phone.

Ouch! Breaking bones via falls from a recumbent isn't unheard of, but it's not the norm. I've gone down countless times. Usually I'm on the ground before I know what happened, so it's not that I'm 'falling smart' or anything; there just isn't enough vertical speed to cause any damage. Road rash, though, is another matter entirely! :eek:

How you fall is of vital importance. It might mean the difference between life and death. Once I was riding a feathered mountainbike in a descent when suddenly I hit a bump, which made me fly at least 5 yards. I went over the handlebars in a horizontal direction and my only thought was to fold my head, arms and legs backwards in order to prevent those body parts from hitting the ground. I made a successful landing on my chest and belly and got away with some bruises and torn clothes. That was all. If I haden't done this I would probably not even wake up in a hospital.

feathered mountainbike .

What is a feathered mtb? Is that european for fully suspended?

What is a feathered mtb? Is that european for fully suspended?
Specially equipped for flight. :)

I realize that the expression feathered mtb is ambiguous and in connection with the word fly it is even bizarre. I meant fully suspended of course.

Once I was riding a feathered mountainbike which made me fly at least 5 yards. .

I guess I should have read a little closer. :) :D But I can fly more than 5 yards on my mtb without the feathers ;)

Oh yes! and with blazing pedals and a propeller the flight will be even more powerful.(" equipped for flight")

Hello! I usually hang out in the Commuting forum, as I have been a commuter for the last 2-1/2 years with a hybrid. I'm intrigued by recumbants, but have yet to try one, and have always thought they wouldn't be that good for commuting. So this thread seemed like a good way to get in my questions and give you all a chance to convince me. Hope you don't mind my "hijacking" it. :)

My primary concerns are:


How is visibility better, as erik claims? I would think it would be worse, due to being lower to the ground in relation to the cars around you.
From the motorists' point of view, I would think that it would also be harder for them to see you.
Aren't you right at the level of their exhaust pipes?

It might help you to know that my commute is about 5 miles each way, on straight two-lane roads with moderate traffic.

Reply to JohnBrooking:
1. The visibility from a recumbent in terms of angle of vision is better irrespective of the model you use . On an upright bike like a mountainbike or a racer the angle of vision is 45 degrees or less. What you see from such a bike is a couple of squaremeters whereas from a recumbent you can see all the stupidities the cardrivers are about to do. Thus you can plan your driving on a recumbent much more effectively
2. From my experience there is no difference in visibility from the cardrivers' point of view-Either they seem to see nothing or they do not give a dam. As far as I know all cyclists are equally exposed to the dangers of cars. Your ability as a recumbentist is far more important than the visibility of the recumbent.
3. Only very few lowracer will have problems with the exhaust pipes. Most recumbents do not. In your case I would choose an Optima Condor. It is the safest recumbent you can ride in terms of visibility

I ride a Streetmachine GT and my head is roughly the same height as a small car driver. If they cannot see something big (I weigh a lot!) in the road then what chance of them riding into a parked motorcycle or some other unseeable object?

I commute about 16 miles to downtown Chicago irregularly and prefer to use my old wedgie hybrid. I have ridden my Tour Easy and uss Vision at various times, but feel more safe with the upright bike. Sometimes you just need to swerve really fast to avoid getting doored or clobbered by a car and I don't feel the recumbents handle quite as nimbly.
That said, sometimes I do take the other bikes out if I'm going to be on the Lakefront path. On weekends, I take the Tour Easy out on city streets and its great with the lighter traffic.

CAN a 'bent be used in urban traffic, and SHOULD a 'bent be used in urban traffic are philosophical questions. And, then there is the question of what actually are the "customs" of cyclists in various cities.

In Houston, there is a long bike trail across the south side of the city that connects some of the sub-divisions on the Southwest side of town with the Medical Center (with 100,000 employees), the museum district, Rice University, the Zoo, and on to the Southeast side to the University of Houston and Texas Southern University.

And, near the middle section of the bike trail, there is a bike store that sells 'bents. And, the ONE place in Houston that I see anyone riding a 'bent is on that bike trail, especially the center section near the bike store that caters to those cyclists.

About two or three times a year, I will see a 'bent on a small, quiet residential street near the trail...maybe the rider is headed to or from the trail.

There is another bike trail through the center of the city, leading into downtown. It goes up and down into a ravine along a bayou, and some sections are in rather poor condition. And, in some places, a "direct line" requires going over curbs and other obstructions. Lots of mountain bikes on this trail. I've never seen a 'bent on it though...too rough?

What I NEVER see is a 'bent on a "major" street...the sort of street that connects one neighborhood to another, and the kind of street that commuters use to get to and from their jobs. Never.

So, while in "theory", a 'bent might do a fine job of getting folks around the "Big City", that is NOT what folks use them for in Houston. In this city, they are a smooth, flat, paved "bike trail" kind of bike.

Reply to JohnBrooking:
1. The visibility from a recumbent in terms of angle of vision is better irrespective of the model you use . On an upright bike like a mountainbike or a racer the angle of vision is 45 degrees or less. What you see from such a bike is a couple of squaremeters whereas from a recumbent you can see all the stupidities the cardrivers are about to do. Thus you can plan your driving on a recumbent much more effectively
I'm not sure what the term "angle of vision" refers to. Do you mean that when riding a racer, you are staring more down at the pavement, and to see around you, you have to lift your head? That makes sense. But on my hybrid, I'm already not looking down quite as much as I would be on a racer. Would you say the angle of vision on a hybrid is about midway between a racer and a 'bent?

CAN a 'bent be used in urban traffic, and SHOULD a 'bent be used in urban traffic are philosophical questions. And, then there is the question of what actually are the "customs" of cyclists in various cities.
...
What I NEVER see is a 'bent on a "major" street...the sort of street that connects one neighborhood to another, and the kind of street that commuters use to get to and from their jobs. Never.

So, while in "theory", a 'bent might do a fine job of getting folks around the "Big City", that is NOT what folks use them for in Houston. In this city, they are a smooth, flat, paved "bike trail" kind of bike.
Fortunately for me, Portland Maine is not Houston, and besides, my commute is outside of the city proper anyway. Still, the roads I ride are what you might call "major" -- two-way traffic at speeds of 30-50, frequent intersections, variable amounts of shoulder. Your post answers, for Houston, the question "IS a 'bent used in urban traffic" (answer: no), but still leaves open, from what I read, the CAN and especially the SHOULD question, especially for other cities.

What about ability to add lights, for night commuting? Do the headlight and taillight have a clear path to shine forward and back? Does the frame provide a place to attach them?

What about ability to add lights, for night commuting? Do the headlight and taillight have a clear path to shine forward and back? Does the frame provide a place to attach them?

Yes, I've been using lights front and rear on my recumbents for the last 22 years.

I'm not sure what the term "angle of vision" refers to. Do you mean that when riding a racer, you are staring more down at the pavement, and to see around you, you have to lift your head? That makes sense. But on my hybrid, I'm already not looking down quite as much as I would be on a racer. Would you say the angle of vision on a hybrid is about midway between a racer and a 'bent?
I think you have understood what I meant by angle of vision. The ideal angle of vision is of course 90 degrees. But this ideal angle presupposes a position of the rider that you only find in recumbentriders or in riders of upright oldfashioned bikes. When you mention "hybridbike" I'm not quite sure what bike you are referring to. Bigha? Giant Revive? As far as these bikes are concerned I think the angle of vision is quite sufficient.
But the angle of vision will also influence the extent to which you see on your right and on your left. What I mean is that even your indirect vision will get severely impaired if you look down at the asfalt when you ride.

Oh yes! and with blazing pedals and a propeller the flight will be even more powerful.(" equipped for flight")
Hey!!! How'd you know about the propeller? :)

I like the bike shop and the owner is a nice guy ( names withheld ) but...when I asked if he carried any recumbent accessories he told me, " we no longer carry recumbents because of the 'urban environment' we are in. Bents are great for the trails and country roads but not for the 'urban environment'." Those are very nearly his exact words.

This has been marketed under Campbell soup's Cream of Crap flavor. :D

Urban riding...a direct hit by an automobile grill in the torso would really hurt. For this reason I avoid riding reclined 'bents in traffic. My 'bent has similar ergo to the StreetMachine so I'd probably make it over the hood in some cases. But regardless, I still find it too reclined for urban-street riding.

A Rans- or Burley-style 'bent would be much better in that regard. Generally, it's easier to look around on that type of bent. Also, to be seen, a bright safety flag is always a good idea (motorists associate them with kid's trailers).

Incidentally, European style trekking- and city-bikes are a pretty good bet. They allow the rider to look forward instead of down. However, I've fallen about once-per-year due to wet (and stepped) pavement, etc on my 26” Villiger trekking bike. Luckily, each time I'd successfully controlled the fall, but if I were to get hit by a car, I'd probably do a dangerous header.

NR

We had a guy working as a messenger on a BikeE for several years, he prefered it to the uprights he had used previously. I only saw one other messenger in DC (back in the eighties) on a recumbent, so it is rare but it can be done. Makes more sense than fixie in my opinion but "sensible" is not in fashion among messengers.

Urban riding...a direct hit by an automobile grill in the torso would really hurt.

NR

I imagine getting hit on any bike by a automobile would really hurt. ;)

This guy had a car pull out in front of him and he's glad he was on a bent.
http://lehobrno.borec.cz/eindex.htm

This guy had a car pull out in front of him and he's glad he was on a bent.
http://lehobrno.borec.cz/eindex.htm
Nice website! I live 35-miles from the Czech Republic, so the background in those pictures looks very familiar. Especially that old bus filled with people gawking at the accident. I noticed he put a flag on his new 'bent -- a good idea in that region, because motorists will drive respectfully as long as they can see you. Also, it's a good thing he jousted the car instead of the other way around.



I imagine getting hit on any bike by a automobile would really hurt.

I'd say that as long as you can make it over the hood, then being on a bent is way safer than a DF. But, all things considered, I'd really hate to be the test dummy on that one:)

NR

[QUOTE=erik forsgren]I think you have understood what I meant by angle of vision. The ideal angle of vision is of course 90 degrees.


When I ride my conventional bike, my line of sight is parallel to the road, or whereever I feel like pointing my eyes. Are you assuming that people don't have a neck or pivoting eyes? Not trying to come off as snarky btw, but I'm having trouble following your assertion.

When you mention "hybridbike" I'm not quite sure what bike you are referring to. Bigha? Giant Revive? As far as these bikes are concerned I think the angle of vision is quite sufficient.
I think the general meaning of "hybrid" is a cross between a road and a mountain bike. Upright sitting position, straight handlebars, somewhat more rugged, and wider tires, but not knobbies. Here's a picture of my Diamondback Crestview:

I wonder if there're any stats on the relative safety of the riding positions offered by different kinds of bikes? (Although, as any of us who hang out on Safety & Advocacy know, posting stats often results mainly in starting an argument about their meaning and validity! :))

When I ride my conventional bike, my line of sight is parallel to the road, or whereever I feel like pointing my eyes. Are you assuming that people don't have a neck or pivoting eyes? Not trying to come off as snarky btw, but I'm having trouble following your assertion.
I've noticed that the lower the handlebars are in relation to the seat, the more likely it is that the rider will ride head down, making for a reduced field of vision to the front. I've seen some accidents that otherwise should have been amazingly easy to avoid, except the rider's head was facing the front wheel instead of the road ahead. IOW, his/her eyebrows blocked the view of the road ahead. I leave it to you to come up with an explanation, I only note the phenomenon.

When I ride my conventional bike, my line of sight is parallel to the road, or whereever I feel like pointing my eyes. Are you assuming that people don't have a neck or pivoting eyes? Not trying to come off as snarky btw, but I'm having trouble following your assertion.

I've noticed that the lower the handlebars are in relation to the seat, the more likely it is that the rider will ride head down, making for a reduced field of vision to the front. I've seen some accidents that otherwise should have been amazingly easy to avoid, except the rider's head was facing the front wheel instead of the road ahead. IOW, his/her eyebrows blocked the view of the road ahead. I leave it to you to come up with an explanation, I only note the phenomenon.

I don't think it's so hard to explain. Simply, when a DF rider gets tired, his neck and head revert back into natural alignment with his body. Since his body is facing down, so will his face. Of course, not every single DF rider suffers from this, but I see my share on crowded bike paths during the summertime. They like to ride directly into my path until I ring my bell.

Hasn't the DF industry invented a Velcro solution to this problem yet? :)

NR