Classic & Vintage - Lotus Record

Found a Lotus Record at the LBS. I was wondering what insight the vintage collective could give me on this bike. Things like, OEM specs, quality, any information really; even a funny anecdote is welcome.

The bike that I found has a mix matched campy group. Record R/D and F/D, record crank. Every other component, save for the cassette/freewheel, is unknown to me except that it is campy. Brakes, hubs, BB, etc. The cassette/freewheel is shimano 600 (don't think that goes there...).

The frame is more puzzling to me. From what I've found on the 'net Lotus were of Japanese make, however, this particular model has "designed by Cinelli" stamped on the chain stay. The fork crown also has the trademark Cinelli C. The top tube simply says "Record" and the down tube says "Lotus" with the
signature flower petal.
Hmm what am I forgetting... Oh, there is no tubing sticker anywhere on it. I will say this: the bike is lighter than a feather. It has to be less than 20 pounds. Its a joy to ride and super fast. Anyway, if anyone can give me ANY information from my vague description it would be great. I have an odd feeling I've stumbled across something wonderful here.

Edit: Also has Campy dropouts.

Thanks.
Richard

The Lotus record was indeed designed by Cinelli as were 2 other models. However, the ads implied more, stating, "three full-on high performance racing machines made in Italy through an exclusive association of Lotus and Cinelli bicycles". The tubing was Columbus SLX, or SPX if it was a really large frame. The components should be all Campagnolo (C-)Record, including rims, Cinelli bars stem and saddle, Clement tires. Vintage is 1985 or slightly later. Several of the parts were pantographed, including 'LOTUS' on the chainrings and the Lotus symbol on the front of the Cinelli stem. Original price was $1399.00 US, or slightly higher, depending on the year. Given the ties with Cinelli and the fact that this was a limited edition, this model has very good collectibility.

Gah. Well, I did ride it for about 20 minutes on the local trail. The ride compared to my current bike was FAR superior. Much faster, way more comfortable, an overall nicer ride.
Anyway, I'm picking it up in a couple days for $300.00 US. :p
The bike is in prime condition, never been crashed; however, it does have the typical usage scratches and chips. I think a paint job is definitely in the future. I'll post pics when I pick it up.

Actually, I would advise against a paint job. Once you have painted it, you have lost the "designed by Cinelli" decal. You've also lost the model name. It is the tie to Cinelli and the Italian, limited production that accounts for a large portion of the resale and collectibility. Without the orginal paint/decals it becomes just another repainted, high end Lotus, substantially decreasing the resale value and collectibility.

Actually, I would advise against a paint job. Once you have painted it, you have lost the "designed by Cinelli" decal. You've also lost the model name. It is the tie to Cinelli and the Italian, limited production that accounts for a large portion of the resale and collectibility. Without the orginal paint/decals it becomes just another repainted, high end Lotus, substantially decreasing the resale value and collectibility.
I agree! Ride the bike as is, and you are riding something special!

That sounds like a sweet ride.

Thanks for everyones input. I still have a couple general questions about the bikes make up and its components. I'm still relatively new to road cycling so bear with me if these questions seem....."newbish" I'm just terribly anxious to learn everything about bikes. Hehe. :)

Anyway, whats the difference between Record, (C-)Record, Super Record, and Nouvo Record?

What can you tell me about SLX/SPX tubing besides the sizing differences. That is, SPX being for larger frames. Thats all I could seem to find out about it through a quick search.

The chainline on the small (ring) up front and the large (sprocket) in the back seems extreme. The chain rubs the F/D pretty badly. Just an adjustment? Or just the way it is? I may not be remembering correctly but I thought I read somewhere that sometimes that just happens on a bike?

Fourth are the hubs of the sealed cartridge variety? What about the BB?
And lastly, (the answer here will be somewhat extensive) since you seem to be the human bicycle catalog T-Mar ( :D ), What is the sizing of the BB, fork, headset, front and rear spacing?

<huff huff>

I feel more like I'm badgering at this point, but anything anyone can input will help me tremendously.

Thanks,

Richard
(Eager minds await)

Keith,
Ok, Record is(was) campy's original designation for the then top of the line
component gruppo. Later became Nuovo Record. Super Record came later and
ran concurrent with Nuovo Record, it had some Ti bits, was lighter, and generally
a better gruppo (well thats what the advertizers said). C-Record came out in
1984 ish (?) and was a replacement for Super Record. Nuovo Record was stopped
before the Super Record was discontinued.
You can check out the Campy Time line on www.campyonly.com
or this one: http://www.velo-retro.com/tline.html
There is Tons more of info on the campy groups. I'm sure I've understated this
greatly but its a rough estimate of where the gruppo's stood.
You are most definately not badgering, heck what you are doing is what this
forum was designed for.
Marty

The chainline on the small (ring) up front and the large (sprocket) in the back seems extreme. The chain rubs the F/D pretty badly. Just an adjustment? Or just the way it is? I may not be remembering correctly but I thought I read somewhere that sometimes that just happens on a bike?


Which side of the derailleur is rubbing? How close is the chain to the chainstay when this is happening?

Lotek, thanks for the info and links
USAZorro, I appreciate your help but I've remedied the problem. (out of adjustment)

I picked the bike up today. Its late at night so I'll post pics tommorow.

Lotek, thanks for the info and links
USAZorro, I appreciate your help but I've remedied the problem. (out of adjustment)

I picked the bike up today. Its late at night so I'll post pics tommorow.

Glad to hear you got it fixed. Enjoy your sweet ride.

Thanks for everyones input. I still have a couple general questions about the bikes make up and its components. I'm still relatively new to road cycling so bear with me if these questions seem....."newbish" I'm just terribly anxious to learn everything about bikes. Hehe. :)

Anyway, whats the difference between Record, (C-)Record, Super Record, and Nouvo Record?

What can you tell me about SLX/SPX tubing besides the sizing differences. That is, SPX being for larger frames. Thats all I could seem to find out about it through a quick search.

The chainline on the small (ring) up front and the large (sprocket) in the back seems extreme. The chain rubs the F/D pretty badly. Just an adjustment? Or just the way it is? I may not be remembering correctly but I thought I read somewhere that sometimes that just happens on a bike?

Fourth are the hubs of the sealed cartridge variety? What about the BB?
And lastly, (the answer here will be somewhat extensive) since you seem to be the human bicycle catalog T-Mar ( :D ), What is the sizing of the BB, fork, headset, front and rear spacing?

<huff huff>

I feel more like I'm badgering at this point, but anything anyone can input will help me tremendously.

Thanks,

Richard
(Eager minds await)

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I was busy preparing some documents for a legal case. Thank-you USAZorro and lotek for answering some of Keith's issues.

SLX and SPX were introduced in 1984 as developments of Columbus' SL and SP tubesets. The X designates that the seat tube, down tube and chainstays have raised helical ridges inside the tubes. These helical ridges increase stiffness in the bottom bracket area while only adding about 35g/0.08 lb of weight. The ridges are pretty small, only 0.35mm thick and 3.5mm wide. The concept of helical reinforcements to increase ridigity had long been used in the Columbus steering columns. A couple of years earlier, brazed on fittings had been introduced for front derailleurs and there were a number of problems with tube failures in the area. The helical reinforcements also solved this problem without having to increase the thickness of the butt. The heavier gauge SP and SPX tubesets are 0.1mm thicker than their SL and SLX counterparts, and weigh about 370g/0.8 lbs more. In general, Lotus used the heavier gauge SP or SPX tubesets once the frame size went above 58cm/22.8". If you need tubing decals, I believe I have some SLX and maybe SPX in stock.

Lotus used English threading on their Japanese manufactured frames, but given that these were made in Italy, the threading is probably Italian. I doubt Lotus would have been willing cover the cost to retool the manufcturer to a different thread standard. However, it is relatively easy to tell. An Italian threaded bottom bracket will have the cups stamped 36 x 24F, while the stamping will be 1.370 x 24 (TPI) for English. An Italian headset will be stamped 25.4 x 24F, while an English one will be stamped 1 x 24 (TPI). Unfortunately, Campagnolo usually stamped the threading on the underside of the locknut.

Rear spacing should 125mm, front should be 100mm.

The hubs are standard ball and cone. There are no rubber seals that I recall, just a very deep, close fitting dust cap. The bottom bracket is also standard.

A couple of warnings about C-Record. Depending on the vintage, there may be an integral Allen socket remover for the crankarms. It required a 7mm Allen wrench, which may be hard to find. I don't have any literature indicating that the Record came with the Delta brake option, but if it does, they can be a bit of handful to adjust.

Here is some uhhh, eye tofu. Not candy, these pictures devoid my bike of anything pretty. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/stem.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/stay.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/shifter.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/rerder.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/lotus.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/fork.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Skimandyak1/bike.bmp

Couple things about the bike I (how did I miss some of this stuff??) didn't notice pre-purchase, some disappointing, some not:

- Generic pedals with toe cages and straps
- Shimano 600 cluster/freewheel/cassette
- New 105 levers and hoods. I'm quite keen on keeping the bike original, but I would like to think these are a better choice than the original Campys, in a comfort perspective.
- 3TTT Bars and Stem. Weight aside, the 3TTT stem is most aesthetically pleasing. Functional too! :lol:
- Gah. Soon to be replaced Cannondale seatpost and Techna Dynamica(?) saddle.
- Mavic MA-40 wheels with Campy hubs.

Too everyone who replied, THANKYOU for ALL of your input. You have all been helpful.
On a side note, these forums are perhaps some of the most welcoming i've come across in my experiences with the internet.

Good looking bike.

I wouldn't sweat the changes too much.

Bike probably did not have a Campy freewheel as they were relatively rare and quite expensive. Shimano 600 FWs are pretty good. DuraAce is notceably better in my experience and the SunTour New Winners are real good too. Regina would be your Italian piece, harder to find than the others.

That FW on the wheelset you described might not be OEM but is "period correct" and very good quality.

The 3T stem might be OEM, though probably replaced a Cinelli, and I agree that it's a great looking stem. I think better looking than Cinellis of similar vintage.

Don't know why they replaced hoods and seatpost. If the bike had Cinelli bars and they were damaged that might explain the bars and stem. Maybe someone got a good deal on a stem/bar/hoods package? The 105s will work just fine but if I were looking to spend money on originality I'd go hunting Campy C-Record hoods. Not cheap.

Don't know why the seatpost has been changed. Maybe a collector wanted the Record post and gave enough cash to make swapping worth it? Maybe .....who knows? Once bikes get past X years, unless they've been garaged, all sorts of things happen.

Enjoy it.

:beer: