Fifty Plus (50+) - Some People and Their Dogs

In Newport News VA, there's a bridge called Lions Bridge. On one side there's a field or mall and then the James River. On the other side, Lake Maury. Anyway, I'm coming down Museum Drive downhill at about 23 mph. Up ahead I see a small dog crossing the street and also realize that the dog is on one of those long leashes. I start to apply the brakes and shout "Hold your Dog!" The owner quickly is trying to reel in the dog, I swerve to the left and go past. What a moron. The guy gives this animal a good 20 ft lead and lets this little dog cross a street that cars travel on. I'm just glad I was very attentive. If I had hit the leash or the dog it would've been bad for me, but likely fatal for the pet.

I see those kind of people frequently on the local MUPs. I usually try to yell as soon as I see them, or at least 40yards out to let them get their pet under control. I have just as much problem with parents who assume that it is your job to navigate around their oblivious toddler and give you the hairy eyeball when the tot darts out into your path and you have to take significant evasive action. :rolleyes:

...But at least on a MUP pedestrians, kids, dogs etc. are entitled to be there. Allowing a dog to roam across an actual road on the end of one of those leashes is not at all bright.

On a MUP, I'd be expecting and looking for such behavior. On a street though, that type of action can get a beloved pet killed.

It seems that people with little dogs have the hardest time realizing that if I hit the dog because they let it run in front of me, the dog is gonna die. And I'd feel worse for the dog than the owner.
As for the toddler, I expect the unexpected, and always say something positive to them. They are cyclings future.

Haven't you seen the obvious link? These people are at or very near THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE! If their little doggy defecates, it will start a black hole.

I absolutely despise those long, retractable leashes. It gives the dog way too much control, and can be a hinder to stable behavior. When I take my dog (Pit Bull / Lab / Shar-Pei) for a walk, I use a leash that's simply a loop that my hand fits through. The entire leash, with clasp is no more than about 7-8 inches. My dog walks immediately on my side. Walk-time is not Play-time or Exploration-time. It's for exercise.

Every place I have checked on line has a leash law. Most of them have a limit to the length. Most likely it is 6-5 feet where you live. The laws are on line. A repeat offender can be reported. Or you can tell them you will report them next time. If no one reports her to the police, nothing will happen. Maybe nothing will happen even if you do speak up, still nothing may be done. But you won't know until you try.

MUP's and bike paths may have length limits of their own.

I have a fellow with a dog who lives right down the street from me that has the same problem...except...the dog (a Jack Russell) HATES ME. When that dog sees me coming up the street he will begin to bark and growl and run to the end of the lead so fast and hard that sometimes coming to the end of the lead will knock him off his little doggy feet. One day that lead will break, and that dog is going to meet the front wheel of my Bacchetta Recumbent.

Tractor Tom in Okeechobee, FL

Bicycles with the dogs leash tied to the bicycle trotting alnog wherever. Grr!! Dogs and bicycles don't mix well, and you are likely to end up with a bicycle/dog stew.

Walk-time is not Play-time or Exploration-time. It's for exercise.

I assume your dog does get some time where he can explore and smell though, right? A happy dog is not just an exercised dog.

As for me, I'm very patient with people and their dogs. I'll save my anger for cagers.

OP - at least your dog incident had one on a leash. On Sunday I proved you can sprint up a 19% grade. I was grinding up this steep hill and heard a guy trying to call back his dog. I look around and not only is a mangy mutt type trying to track me down but a pit bull type dog with fangs showing was also in the hunt. My only option was to try to out hill the dogs. It worked but I thought my HR monitor was going to blow.

When I got to the top the mangy guy was still trying to get to me but I yelled him off. Without his pit bull mate he was not as aggressive.

I absolutely despise those long, retractable leashes. It gives the dog way too much control, and can be a hinder to stable behavior. When I take my dog (Pit Bull / Lab / Shar-Pei) for a walk, I use a leash that's simply a loop that my hand fits through. The entire leash, with clasp is no more than about 7-8 inches. My dog walks immediately on my side. Walk-time is not Play-time or Exploration-time. It's for exercise.
I'm glad I'm not your dog.

I'm glad I'm not your dog.

Don't worry, my dog has plenty of play-time, and is very well cared for. But when it comes to his walk, I like to keep things structured, and keep him in my control. There's nothing wrong with having an obedient, well-behaved dog.

Does this look like an unhappy dog?

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3037/2292610183_96ae1ffc44_z.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2343/2067458834_24497ded0f_o.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4119/4768711797_fb20377726_z.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afe-gvlKwxI

I assume your dog does get some time where he can explore and smell though, right? A happy dog is not just an exercised dog.

Absolutely. But only in areas where it's appropriate.

Don't worry, my dog has plenty of play-time, and is very well cared for. But when it comes to his walk, I like to keep things structured, and keep him in my control. There's nothing wrong with having an obedient, well-behaved dog.
You are right about that!Mine is a brat .Wire Haired Fox Terrier.Spoiled rotten.

I'm actually pretty fortunate; the MUP dog walkers around here seem to be pretty considerate with their animals. I just try to give them ample notice if they aren't facing me, usually with a bell ring.

...But at least on a MUP pedestrians, kids, dogs etc. are entitled to be there. Allowing a dog to roam across an actual road on the end of one of those leashes is not at all bright.


On a MUP, I'd be expecting and looking for such behavior. On a street though, that type of action can get a beloved pet killed.

Yes indeed if toddlers or other unpredictable beings bother you, don't ride on the MUP, or if you do, ride at an appropriate speed (which often is as slow as the joggers, or even as slow as walkers).

Absolutely. But only in areas where it's appropriate.

cool....good looking lucky dog you have there!

cool....good looking lucky dog you have there!

Thanks. He's really been a lot of work - not only with the training, but he's always had a weak immune system, and has been diabetic for at least the past 2.5 years. He sure has cost me a lot of $$$ in Vet visits, Insulin, Syringes, Glucose-testing products, special grain-free diet, etc...but it's absolutely worth it. He's an total goof-ball, and makes my wife and I laugh just about every day with his unusual and unpredictable antics. One of my friends swears that he thinks he's part human.

BTW...I have a trailer like the one in your avatar - but I think Bruno (my dog) is probably too big for it (70+ lb).

At least it wasn't a 125 pound pit bull trying to make you his next meal.

At least it wasn't a 125 pound pit bull trying to make you his next meal.

Why do you have to throw your ignorance into the mix?

Some educational reading:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanPitBullTerrierRevisedNovember12008
HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds.

http://www.badrap.org/breed-history

http://www.badrap.org/monster-myths

There's nothing wrong with the breed - it's the breeders and owners that are the root of the problem. The vast majority of breeders are puppy mills or backyard breeders, and are in it only for the money & the way the dog looks. They don't care if their dogs are inbred, cross-bred, etc.

The American Pit Bull Terrier was originally bred specifically to be Dog-Aggressive. Any that showed Human-Aggression were immediately culled from the gene pool. This was done so that owners could safely remove their dogs from the dog fighting pits.

Show me a bad dog, and I'll show you a bad owner.

"The American Pit Bull Terrier was originally bred specifically to be Dog-Aggressive."

Are you saying that having a bred to be dog aggressive animal is acceptable? The pit bull has been so irresponsibly bred that it is a bad dog. The pit bull is the only animal in the world that I would dispatch without compunction.

How about the dude who takes his German Shepard to a single track mountain bike course and lets the dog run loose! "Oh he's very freindly". Just the same, if Rover gets near me he'll get a face full of pepper spray. Turns out he lost the dog! On my return trip he's heading up a search team to go look for the dog.......on nearly 200 acres. Good luck.

"The American Pit Bull Terrier was originally bred specifically to be Dog-Aggressive."

Are you saying that having a bred to be dog aggressive animal is acceptable? The pit bull has been so irresponsibly bred that it is a bad dog. The pit bull is the only animal in the world that I would dispatch without compunction.

Absolutely not. I'm only saying that it was originally bred for dog fighting. Just because it was bred for this reason over a hundred years ago doesn't mean that all of these dogs today are going to display this trait. German Shepherds were bred for herding animals - but that doesn't mean that that's what they all do.

Pit Bulls are known as "Nanny Dogs" because, in general, and with responsible owners, they are very good around kids. Of course the media isn't going to show you this side of the breed.

My wife and I meet Pit Bulls on a regular basis, and I have yet to meet a truly human-aggressive one. Toy breeds on the other hand - I've met lots and lots of human-aggressive examples...due to bad 'parenting'.

My dog is 1/2 Pit Bull. When he was about 2 years old, he started to show some dominance postures and actions at the local off-leash dog park. I recognized the signs, and quickly dealt with them before they escalated. Bruno has never shown human aggression, and regularly meets and plays with small children. He's been attacked by other dogs on several occasions. In none of these occurrences did he harm, or even TRY to harm the other dog(s).

People that choose to own ANY powerful breed need to educate themselves prior to taking one home. It's not as simple as exercise, food, and play time. Discipline is a HUGE part, but many don't know how/when to discipline.

I'm sorry to hear that you're so prejudice against the breed, most likely due to what you've seen in the media.

I don't understand why anyone would choose a dog that was bred to be aggressive towards other dogs or humans - no matter how far back in the development of the breed. There's so many dog breeds that were developed and maintained with nothing but the intent that they be good around other dogs, humans, be trainable and companionable. Why would anyone choose for any characteristics other than that?

I have been blessed in that I have had only two encounters with dogs. One was a couple of years ago and involved a pit bull type dog that I was able to out run. The second was Sunday morning, I was chased by a Dachshund puppy. Him I was able to out run with no trouble. By biggest problems involve Squirrels and Geese.

I dunno pits CAN be great dogs but I had a chance to play with a litter of them once and for 5 minutes all I did was pull puppy after puppy off my throat. not the usual lick-nibblefest experience I've enjoyed with other breeds, but yes CAN be great doggies.

I don't understand why anyone would choose a dog that was bred to be aggressive towards other dogs or humans - no matter how far back in the development of the breed. There's so many dog breeds that were developed and maintained with nothing but the intent that they be good around other dogs, humans, be trainable and companionable. Why would anyone choose for any characteristics other than that?

Many people choose to own Pit Bulls simply to show the world how wonderful the breed is with a responsible owner. Some are working dogs. Some are agility dogs. Some are companions. I used to believe all the media hype, myths, and such, as did my wife - until we owned one, and started doing research and found the truth about them. I've owned many, many dogs of different breeds before. My Pit Bull mix is hands-down the best dog I've owned. I also have another dog - an austrailian cattle dog mix. She's a good dog, too...but doesn't have the personality, fun-factor, and temperament of Bruno.

I'm actually pretty fortunate; the MUP dog walkers around here seem to be pretty considerate with their animals. I just try to give them ample notice if they aren't facing me, usually with a bell ring.

Same here.

you are likely to end up with a bicycle/dog stew.

Sounds like the start of an interesting recipe.


I had a chance to play with a litter of them once and for 5 minutes all I did was pull puppy after puppy off my throat.

That's funny, but I can understand it too. At a farm I was introduced to a litter of very young pit bulls.

One of the pups came over to say hi. I crouched and put my hand in front of it. Dogs often like to smell or check out a body part when they meet. It seems to be like a handshake to them. It also might be a very comfortable feeling, like "Yes, I could pick this guy out of any police line up now." :)

This one got a gentle grip on my finger with its teeth, and it very slowly started increasing the pressure. By then I was talking to someone and the pup was so pleasant and friendly that I didn't give it a second thought, until it started to hurt. One very surprised "ouch" and I pulled my hand back.

It sat back and smiled, totally happy to be a pit bull with awesome powers.

I was impressed. It had been done very carefully, with just a slow increase in the pressure. The intent wasn't to kill, just to have a bit of fun with a big, naive human. It was more diplomatic and careful than a lot of people.

Three main causes for dog behavior problems
Lack of training : Where the dogs behavior is based on what makes it happy
Improper training: where force, fear and physical and mental punishment is used to get the dog to comply
Humanization: Where the dog is used as a substitute for human interaction where the dog mentally can't cope.

5 million adoptable dogs are destroyed in the USA each year because they don't have homes for them.
Countless others are destroyed by motor vehicles, turned over to shelters or destroyed by local veterinarians because of behavioral problems due to owner ignorance.

As i read these posts it is apparent that ignorance about dog behavior and breed history is still strong

I mentioned in this forum before that one of my rides takes me on a MUP across a bridge over the Yonge subway line (at surface at this location). Folks gather with their dogs and kids and wave to the train as it comes underneath the bridge, the train gives A "toot", then often as not the people/kids/dogs rush over to the other side of the bridge to watch the train move away. They are not looking out for bikes or anything else of course - one of the things I need to look out for on my ride!

I see those kind of people frequently on the local MUPs. I usually try to yell as soon as I see them, or at least 40yards out to let them get their pet under control. I have just as much problem with parents who assume that it is your job to navigate around their oblivious toddler and give you the hairy eyeball when the tot darts out into your path and you have to take significant evasive action. :rolleyes:

If you are riding where toddlers are and you need to take "significant evasive action" you're going to fast. Yes, it's your job to navigate around them. I suggest you slow down to 10 MPH and be ready to come to a full stop whenever dogs, children, old people and a-holes listening to their players are around. Is your ride more important than a childs life? Better still go ride in traffic and try a little road reversal.

If you are riding where toddlers are and you need to take "significant evasive action" you're going to fast. (sic) Not true. You could be going 1kmh and be required to take evasive action if, as originally put, a tot darts out into your path. Being ready and able to take evasive action - as well as giving warning 40 yards out - shows that the rider/OP is far more on the ball than the parent/dog walker.


Better still go ride in traffic and try a little road reversal.
Just because there are toddlers and/or leashed and unleashed dogs on the Multi Use Trail/Path doesnt mean bikes need to get off it and use the street. Nor does it mean bikes can ride them aggressively or as if they are the only traffic.

Dogs rule :thumb:

Just because there are toddlers and/or leashed and unleashed dogs on the Multi Use Trail/Path doesnt mean bikes need to get off it and use the street. Nor does it mean bikes can ride them aggressively or as if they are the only traffic.

+1 to the replies Plutonix. Parents need to be responsible for their children and have them in the proper level of control (not leashed, cut me some slack, please) out on an MUP as the path isn't a playground and should be viewed as a potential traffic situation for children. Same with a dog, owner has the responsibility of having their dog under their control at all times. An MUP isn't a Dog Park and dogs should be properly restrained, not on reel type leashes where they can dart out and lack complete control.

We have a large dog, a setter and she gets walks daily, always on a regular leash so she cannot dart into traffic. For running and swimming she gets to go to the dog park and play to her hearts content and our back yard is fenced. We have 2 acres so it is not as if she is penned up.

Certainly not advocating high speeds on an MUP, that is what roads and tracks are for, just that a path be used for its intended purpose, not as a playground. Those are available, too.

Bill

OMG! This morning I'm coming up the road and this guy is coming around the corner with his dog. He's looking to his left and his dog is pulling to the right. I say, calmly, "Turning right"--he's still looking left and the dog is still going to the middle of the road--I say "Watch the dog please." I am turning, made sure there was plenty of room, and I hear, "You watch out," in a rather snappy tone. I just cycle on and don't respond, but what a dork.

While riding on a rural road recently, I was chased by a large dog. "Don't worry, he won't bite!" the owner yelled as I went past. It's not biting I'm worried about -- it's getting knocked off my bike. Just last year we had a rider die after a small dog collided with him on the MUP.