Advocacy & Safety - What is it with blinkies?

Everyone seems to have an attachment to rear blinkies. As an attractant device they make sense, but from a driver's perspective they are confusing in the extreme because they don't offer sufficient spatial positioning information.

If ppl were serious about safety then they would be promoting the use of a SOLID rear light accompanied by a blinkie attractor AND a reflector if required by law. The solid rear light provides continuous spatial positioning information for drivers approaching from the rear, as does the reflector.

So what's the deal with using blinkies on their own? Is the price of a couple of batteries worth more than the price of your life?

I'm not sure it's unsafe to have only a blinkie visible from a distance-- you're posting only becuase you *see* these lights and have to pause to figure them out, for example.

That said, I agree that it's even better to combine the blinkies with solid lights or reflectors. When I ride with a pair of blinkies and reflectors (ankle, vest, rear rack) I get a lot more room than in the daytime.

I'm not sure it's unsafe to have only a blinkie visible from a distance-- you're posting only becuase you *see* these lights and have to pause to figure them out, for example.

That didn't make any sense at all. If your driving a car and you have to 'pause' or divert your attention from the natural information flow then you are in an unsafe driving state.

As a driver, I prefer steady lights to blinkies. Blinkies make me think "cyclist" and try to locate him; steadies mean the cyclist is just parsed by my subconscious driver autopilot, the same thing that means I don't hit kerbs and cars and streetsigns.

My brain makes more mistakes than my autopilot. Run both steadies and blinkies, if you like, but run a strong steady light as the minimum if you ride in traffic.

That didn't make any sense at all. If your driving a car and you have to 'pause' or divert your attention from the natural information flow then you are in an unsafe driving state.

If you see something you don't understand while driving, then you need to be sure everything is safe. That means you need to slow down until you understand the situation, among other things.

Blinkies can cause drivers to do this. So, not only does it make sense that blinkies increase safety, by causing drivers to slow down in the presence of bicyclists, it's true, too.

If ppl were serious about safety then they would be promoting the use of a SOLID rear light accompanied by a blinkie attractor AND a reflector if required by law. The solid rear light provides continuous spatial positioning information for drivers approaching from the rear, as does the reflector.

I always figure that most people (at least the ones on BF) already have reflectors in place. I would hope that a single blinkie would not be ones only rear visibilty aid.

As a driver, I prefer steady lights to blinkies. Blinkies make me think "cyclist" and try to locate him; steadies mean the cyclist is just parsed by my subconscious driver autopilot, the same thing that means I don't hit kerbs and cars and streetsigns.

My brain makes more mistakes than my autopilot. Run both steadies and blinkies, if you like, but run a strong steady light as the minimum if you ride in traffic.

I prefer large amounts of reflectivity in addition to a couple of blinking blinkies. While a steady light is useful for judging distance, I do not feel safe relying on the fact that a motorist is going to take notice to a reflector or a solid light. Think how many times you see a traffic cone (with reflective tape) laying along side the road. Now if that cone would have had a blinkie...

Everyone seems to have an attachment to rear blinkies. As an attractant device they make sense, but from a driver's perspective they are confusing in the extreme because they don't offer sufficient spatial positioning information.

If ppl were serious about safety then they would be promoting the use of a SOLID rear light accompanied by a blinkie attractor AND a reflector if required by law. The solid rear light provides continuous spatial positioning information for drivers approaching from the rear, as does the reflector.

So what's the deal with using blinkies on their own? Is the price of a couple of batteries worth more than the price of your life?

I don't know about all states, but Tennessee and North Carolina both require slow-moving vehicles (bikes, horse-drawn carriages, ect) to have blinking rear lights if they have lights at all.

On my bike, my lights blink until I either 1) apply my brakes, or 2) turn on my turn signal. Then the rear light goes solid red.

I also think at least one steady light should be run.

I run the stock reflector, a truck marker reflector (about 1.5" x 4"), a 5-LED light on the seat post, another 5-LED on my helmet (both on steady light) and an amber xenon strobe blinking twice per second, plus a flagman's reflective vest. 20W halogen + 3LED steady white light plus std reflector up front.

I'm thinking about glo-gloves and reflective tape on the wheels as well.

Everyone seems to have an attachment to rear blinkies. As an attractant device they make sense, but from a driver's perspective they are confusing in the extreme because they don't offer sufficient spatial positioning information.

If ppl were serious about safety then they would be promoting the use of a SOLID rear light accompanied by a blinkie attractor AND a reflector if required by law. The solid rear light provides continuous spatial positioning information for drivers approaching from the rear, as does the reflector.

So what's the deal with using blinkies on their own? Is the price of a couple of batteries worth more than the price of your life?

I use two blinkies, one solid and another flashing rapidly. However, if I had only one blinky, it would NOT be solid. Here's why.

1. The solid light might be mistaken as something else. Possibly a cone or it may get lost in a host of other solid lights. In other words, your light gets mixed with those from other motorists.

2. The blinking light is universally understood by the motorist to be a hazzard or danger. This in my opinion is a far better position to be as a cyclist.

I have read studies that show blinking lights add to the confusion of drunk drivers.

No blinkers for me!

For my early morning commute, I use a steady red light clipped to my jersey, reflectors on my shoes and panniers, and a reflective vest. It's obvious SOMETHING is ahead, and the reflectors on the shoes give a good indication of distance.

It is definitely a fact that drunks are attracted to blinking lights, at least as far as the cops, firefighters and EMTs in the Dallas area are concerned. They train to watch out for it, and it has saved a number of lives just this year alone. Not sure how that would relate to zeroing in on a cyclist with a blinking tail light, but I sure have thought about it on many of my night rides.

I have also noticed the lack of spatial reference issue with riders when I am driving. Most of the time though, it is a cyclist who is riding with no other reflective material and just a rear blinkie. The ones with reflective material on the heels of their shoes, or on their pedals, and who have reflective material along their torso are pretty easy to interpret.

in england, it is law to have solid front and rear lights and bike mounted reflectors.
i must say that i don't like 'blinkies' especially if the flash rate is low. its really disconcerting to see a red light that appears then fades and re-appears a couple of meters on down the road

Blinkies make you look though, right?

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

I have not distance perception trouble with LED blinkies. They are on long enough to sense the distance. The strobe lights which are only on for 1/1000 sec are a problem.
Cyclists with dark clothes, no lights or reflectors are also a problem.

I think that a blinking light is a positive because a steady light may be harder to pick out against the light clutter of a typical street. Our tailights are dim in comparison to oncoming car headlights, streetlights, storefront signs, etc. they may not be noticable againgst these sources of glare and cognitive interferance. When they are blinking, they draw attention as something dfferent or alien to the driver, who then takes notice.

John Ridley: one man discotech!! :)

I live in the inner city where main streets have both lots of vehicles and thousands of flashing and blinking lights from stores, restaurants, bars, advertising signs...the visual distractions for drivers are endless.

In my neighborhood, blinking lights are not enough. A cyclist needs to LOOK like a cyclist, and not like one of a jillion blinking lights. White helmets, yellow jackets with reflective stripes, reflective ankle bands, reflective pedals...all of these thinks MIGHT wake up a driver to realize "hey, there is a PERSON in front of me".

At night, I try to select streets with very few cars, where the flow of traffic is 25 mph or less. If I have only ONE car to avoid, and the driver of that car has only ME to think about, we are probably going to do okay.

I have a blinky on my rack to be seen from a distance and be identified as a cyclist and a solid light on my seatpost so drivers can follow me as they get close.

If you see something you don't understand while driving, then you need to be sure everything is safe. That means you need to slow down until you understand the situation, among other things.

Blinkies can cause drivers to do this. So, not only does it make sense that blinkies increase safety, by causing drivers to slow down in the presence of bicyclists, it's true, too.


Blinkies cause drivers to give me a wide berth... Ah gee, guess that is the desired response.

I use two different blinkies... a Nite Rider super bright blinkie and a smaller battery power 5 light blinkie. Frankly if a driver has to look twice to figure out what is going on, and further if they are still not sure and then go wide "just in case," then the darn things are working just the way I want.

I hate it when they try to get as close as possible.

Police around here have strobe type lights on the roof. I find that when I see a blinkie the first thing that comes to mind at a distance is police officer and then I think cyclist. In both cases the blinkie makes me think a little more about what I am approaching and how to deal with it. That being said I use both solid and blinking and reflective clothing.

I would hope that a single blinkie would not be ones only rear visibilty aid. I prefer large amounts of reflectivity in addition to a couple of blinking blinkies.[/B]
I see lots of people riding with only a blinkie, all reflectors removed from the bike.

I don't use blinkies at all, but I've got a steady rear light powered by dyno, from one to four stationary reflectors (depends on the bike I'm riding), plus reflective tape and pedal reflectors. The pedal reflectors serve the same purpose as the blinkie without requiring batteries.

in england, it is law to have solid front and rear lights and bike mounted reflectors.
i must say that i don't like 'blinkies' especially if the flash rate is low. its really disconcerting to see a red light that appears then fades and re-appears a couple of meters on down the road
Most European countries require steady white front and red rear lights on bikes, and there are standards in place. Not so in the US. You're on your own when it come to lighting. Most bikes are sold only with federally mandated reflectors, which do not meet the requirements for night riding in any state jurisdiction I am aware of.

What if they sold cars without lights and told you that you would have to spend several hundred dollars equipping your car with after market lights before you could drive at night?

I have a large ceramic clown with a big red LED in it's nose that bobs up and down with the clowns head as I ride. It's attached to my helmet and it's pretty big so the clowns nose is about 2 feet above my head which puts it 7 1/2 feet up while I'm riding. Is that too high to be effective? I had a reindeer during the holidays that had the same nose but about a foot lower. Better?

I have a large ceramic clown with a big red LED in it's nose that bobs up and down with the clowns head as I ride. It's attached to my helmet and it's pretty big so the clowns nose is about 2 feet above my head which puts it 7 1/2 feet up while I'm riding. Is that too high to be effective? I had a reindeer during the holidays that had the same nose but about a foot lower. Better?

:roflmao:

Something blinking gives a sense of motion. It's much easier for us to pick out motion than to see something stationary. A person standing in front of a building that you are looking at, with clothing similar to the color of the building, but not enough to act as camouflage, is easily noticed if they are walking, but might be missed if they stand motionless. My blinking rear light blinks fairly fast, and is easier to see that if I left it on "solid".

Pedal reflectors do the same thing - provide motion - with no strobe effect and no batteries.

So there are three common themes (red nosed clowns notwithstanding!) in this thread:

Blinking lights attract attention to a cyclist, but don't provide adequate spatial positioning information.
Steady lights can be lost amongst other light sources, but provide the spatial information required to guage the distance to the rider subconsiously.
There are varying legal requirements for rearward lighting on bicycles.


With that said, I still don't understand why riders use only a blinky instead of a combination of lighting.

FWIW, my preference is for both. I use a solid 3 LED light under my seat and a blinking 3 LED light in my right jersey pocket (ie. at drivers' eye height, but a soft widespread light rather than harshly bright light). My shoes have reflective material in them as well, but it's not much use when it's needed most: at dusk and dawn.

I ride a lot at night in randonnees. I hve just finished one that involved over 20 hours worth. Rando rules require a red rear light (fixed or blink), a red rear reflector and a reflective garment (vest, bandolier, Sam Brown belt).

I have a ride partner who used to go blinky with his rear light until I pointed out the spacial and depth issues (and the fact a blinking light is damned hard to ride behind, especially the 5-LED Cateye ones). He rode a bit behind me (I'm talking about hours and hours, not a few minutes). Next thing I know his rear light is on solid because he was able to observe what I was talking about, and came to the same conclusion.

Believe me, I can pick out his solid rear light up to 3km ahead. People talk about high levels of ambient light in urban areas, and the need to differentiate a bike by having the rear light blinking. If the ambient light level is so high, the bike and rider is likely to be seen anyway.

The issue of spacial awareness and depth is very important. A blinking light may give the impression of no movement to a driver, or may give the impression there is a fence of other object in between. A fixed light can be tracked much more easily.

I ride home after sunset quite often. I have two blinkies on my rack and they flash at different rates. I also have small LED blinkies in the ends of my handlebars. Do all these flashing lights make me more visible or less visible?

http://home.mindspring.com/~rhorne/Jamis%20002.jpg

My seatpost stack from top to bottom:

Yellow blinkie
Red reflector
Red solid

Plus lots of reflective tape and a safety vest.

edit: and ummm, yellow tireflys :)

I bet blue blinkies would make motorists slow down and take notice. But I guess they probably are illegal.

We're going to get one of those neon kits that wogs put under their Skylines. We'll run it along our boom tube for maximum visibility. I shouldn't stray far from The Aussie Thread, bad things happen.

I have read studies that show blinking lights add to the confusion of drunk drivers.


-- When I am driving my car at night, the most noticeable cyclists are those with a rapidly blinking light. (But I don't drive drunk.)

Also the "wig wag" motion of pedal reflectors is VERY noticeable to me.

I feel comfortable commuting with just a blinkie, but it is a very good one: the Cateye LD1000. I've had friends pass me in cars and later comment that they were very impressed by how effective it is.

I don't have more rear lights because I like a "clean" look to the bike and I have the impression that it is noticable and efficient in terms of power consumption. I hope my post doesn't sound like I'm trying to argue in favor of just using a blinkie: to follow up on the original post I'm just trying to explain how I decided to use a single blinkie as opposed to other lighting options. I don't doubt the arguments many of you have presented, and perhaps I'll reconsider in the future and add a reflector and solid light.

If you have a solid red light and a blinking red light together test them out by walking away from your bike in the dark. A long way. A block at least. The single blinker is more visible than one that does not blink, or one that does and one that does not. Your eyes notice the difference between off and on, more. I always use reflectors and reflective material, in case my light dies, in fact I carry a spare red blinker. In use, my red blinker is much brighter than any car or truck taillights, so the reflectors are not easily visible. But maybe the taillight will fail someday.
Police use blinking lights because they work. A flashing red light is a cause for caution just about everywhere. Like a traffic light blinking red. If the motorist has trouble with how wide you are, I always find they give more room, not less. They slow down to see what is going on ahead and then pass carefully. I always see cars coming up on me in my mirror, they move over sooner with a blinking light. In fact my light is daylight visible, they move over sooner in the daytime with the light on too. The new technology lights are so much better, that if you have an old style light you should get a new one and keep the old one as a spare. I ride at least 4.5 hours a week in the dark.

As we discuss the effectiveness of blinkies, one must realize that there are many types and that the freshest battery is stronger, and that the new ones, like the new cat eye TL-LD 1000 are so much better that you have to see it to believe it. Many of the old style lights are small and weak, I consider many of them useless, from actually testing them against each other. A new solid LED red tailight can be many times brighter than an older style blinking light just because it's more powerful. I did a careful comparison with a few, check out the car lights, with the little tiny red led bike light about the size of a D battery, and a couple others on the roof. A VW Golf with bike lights on top......Scroll down to post #30

Bike lights a lot better than car tailights !

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=68186&page=2&pp=25

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=68186&page=2&pp=25

Nice demo.

People talk about high levels of ambient light in urban areas, and the need to differentiate a bike by having the rear light blinking. If the ambient light level is so high, the bike and rider is likely to be seen anyway.


They are talking about a high level of ambiant light beyond the cyclist... this makes a single or even a combination of single fixed lights difficult to see in the cluster of lights, so a cyclist may not be seen at all until the driver is right upon them.

I have seen a very similar situation while sailing into a harbor at night. All the background lighting tends to obscure anything in the foreground (near me that I might need to avoid) and only the blinking lights of the harbor buoys can be seen by the fact that they are blinking in a distinct manner. If the buoy lights were solid, I would not be able to find them against the cluster of confusing background lights.

My goal as a rider is to grab the attention of auto drivers and make them aware of my presence. Blinkers stand out from a confusion of background lights.

I have no objection to having a steady light, but I insist on at least one blinky to grab the drivers initial attention. Probably a combination of lights is the best route, but surely the most attention getting and most likely to "paint" me as a cyclist is a blinky.

I think the blinkie lights get the attention of drivers much faster than a solid light. My father is a police officer and he had blinkies put on all our lights. The police bike patrol on his dept also all use blinkies so I guess it's not a bad idea.

The problem with the solid light is that it doesn't get a drivers attention as easily.

I meant to say, my dad had blinkies put on all our bikes from a young age and was BIG on bike safety for obvoius reasons. He had us all spend sometime with the bike patrol officers to learn all the correct hand signals and handling a bike in traffic when we were old enough.

Nice demo.

Thanks.

The brightest light on the right, is the Performance "Flare" It is so bright I did not think any one would understand how bright it is without a picture. In fact I'm sure of it. I didn't until I saw one.

The next one to the left is the CatEye LD-1000. A good light too. I still have red spots in my eyes. :)

I feel comfortable commuting with just a blinkie, but it is a very good one: the Cateye LD1000. I've had friends pass me in cars and later comment that they were very impressed by how effective it is.

I don't have more rear lights because I like a "clean" look to the bike and I have the impression that it is noticable and efficient in terms of power consumption. I hope my post doesn't sound like I'm trying to argue in favor of just using a blinkie: to follow up on the original post I'm just trying to explain how I decided to use a single blinkie as opposed to other lighting options. I don't doubt the arguments many of you have presented, and perhaps I'll reconsider in the future and add a reflector and solid light.

A great light for sure. If you can afford it, try some lithium batteries in it. It's a noticeable improvement and they stay brighter for longer. More $$ though.

Don't look into the light close up when you do it. :o

A great light for sure. If you can afford it, try some lithium batteries in it. It's a noticeable improvement and they stay brighter for longer. More $$ though.

Don't look into the light close up when you do it. :o

Is there a difference between a driver who can't see you coz you're not adequately lit and a driver who has had their retinas burned to a crisp by a Flare light? :D

I ride home after sunset quite often. I have two blinkies on my rack and they flash at different rates. I also have small LED blinkies in the ends of my handlebars. Do all these flashing lights make me more visible or less visible?

http://home.mindspring.com/~rhorne/Jamis%20002.jpg

A nice clean looking set up, very visible too.

What do you think of the bar end lights?

If you don't mind spending some money, one Cateye TL-LD 1000 would be a lot brighter than the two
Vistalights and lighter. A lot more visible from the side too, but not as clean looking during the day.

Don't misunderstand me, you have a good set up right now. I just wanted to bring it up, looks like you are serious about being seen too.

Is there a difference between a driver who can't see you coz you're not adequately lit and a driver who has had their retinas burned to a crisp by a Flare light? :D

:roflmao: :roflmao:

Can you use bigger letters? I can't read your post, it's all red spots.

I will not look into the light again, with my remaining good eye......... :eek:

i got two of them 1000 cateyes... my but looks like one o them damn deep see fish in the way it undulates.


edit... and i put them on the firt blinking option.

i got two of them 1000 cateyes... my but looks like one o them damn deep see fish in the way it undulates.

Do you have a digital camera? Can you get one? So we can see? It sounds awesome. :eek:

My seatpost stack from top to bottom:

Yellow blinkie
Red reflector
Red solid

Plus lots of reflective tape and a safety vest.

edit: and ummm, yellow tireflys :)

Any way you can get us a picture? :)

Oh dear, my thread has degenerated into a pic-fest :cry:

So there are three common themes (red nosed clowns notwithstanding!) in this thread:

Blinking lights attract attention to a cyclist, but don't provide adequate spatial positioning information.
Steady lights can be lost amongst other light sources, but provide the spatial information required to guage the distance to the rider subconsiously.
There are varying legal requirements for rearward lighting on bicycles.


With that said, I still don't understand why riders use only a blinky instead of a combination of lighting.


True, true, true and true. A random blinker, steady bright markers, a reflective outline and one of those side-flags should all be used together. Even that probably isn't enough, but it's a start.

Um, I have a pair of those V brake pads that light up when you stop. What are they called? Hit me lights? No, I've never mounted them on my bike, I bought them because I wanted to see how they worked.