Advocacy & Safety - no passing zones and passing traffic on empty two lane highways

Some observations from my ride today got me wondering about how other riders are treated by traffic when people are riding in a no passing zone and it's clear for the motorists to pass.


What's everyone's experience with traffic and solid double yellow lines? Anyone have much success preventing high speed traffic from passing in a no passing zone when the road is clear?

Depends on the state..

Some states allow crossing a double yellow line when passing slower moving traffic.
(believe it or not)

HOWEVER, if it's posted as a "No passing zone" (or equivalent) you can't.

In my state (CO) it is legal to pass cyclists in "no passing" zones.

...Anyone have much success preventing high speed traffic from passing in a no passing zone when the road is clear?

I'm not sure why I would want to prevent someone from passing me when the road is clear.

Anyway, I believe it is legal to drive to the left of a double-yellow in OR to pass a bike, or at least that bike-lawyer Thomas in PDX has published opinions to that effect. Now if only a few more of the cagers would just wait until it is clear to attempt to pass, life would be so much better.

I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. Though I can imagine the cager trying to blame you.

All in all, though, it's best for them to make their pass and get on by us as quickly as possible.

The sooner a car safely passes you the safer you will be. If you can do anything to make it easier for them the pass, without endangering yourself, so much the better.

I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. ...

I'm not trying to stop traffic! Today I was out for a few hours and noticed no motorists even hesitating to cross a double yellow line if it was clear for them to do so, despite it being technically illegal. Which is pretty common anytime I ride, just noticed it today particularly (maybe because of light Sat morning traffic & light oncoming traffic made it especially noticeable.)

My guess is this is an attempted jab in the ribs of those cyclist who would prefer to see FRAP go away in favor of SMV laws (carry over from other thread in which almost no one agrees with Bek). In Florida and likely other states, under SMV law, when clear and safe it is legal to cross the double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle regardless of the lane position of the SMV. Certainly if done safely, the cops are not going to bother the passing motorist. I am sure it happens frequently in states with lots of horse drawn buggies.

I'm not sure why I would want to prevent someone from passing me when the road is clear.

Anyway, I believe it is legal to drive to the left of a double-yellow in OR to pass a bike, or at least that bike-lawyer Thomas in PDX has published opinions to that effect. Now if only a few more of the cagers would just wait until it is clear to attempt to pass, life would be so much better.

Uh, because presumably there is (or was) some reason why the city, county or state has designated a particular area of a particular street as a no passing zone.

On one of the stretches of the roads that I ride on a regular basis, there are not only the double yellow lines, BUT those black and white "no passing zone" signs AND sharrows painted on the road about mid-lane. And I have been passed in that zone.

It's a slight downhill grade and it isn't very hard for me to get within 5 or so MPH of the posted speed limit of 35MPH. And no I haven't been passed at that speed, but if I'm within 10MPH of the posted limit I have been passed.

I'd also wager that this stretch of road is no wider than 20' from edge-to-edge.

around here, they have been driving around putting double yellow lines everywhere. Fortunately, the new cyclist passing law makes it legal to pass if it's safe even if there are double yellow lines

I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. Though I can imagine the cager trying to blame you.

All in all, though, it's best for them to make their pass and get on by us as quickly as possible.

In Maryland, the Annotated Code says in:

Title 21
Subtitle 3
Section 307

§ 21-307. No-passing zones


(a) Establishment of zones; signs and markings. -- The State Highway Administration may determine those parts of any highway in its jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving on the left of the roadway would be especially dangerous and, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, may indicate the beginning and end of these zones. Where the signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant individual, every driver of a vehicle shall obey their directions.

(b) Driving on left prohibited -- In general. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of the roadway within the no-passing zone.

(c) Driving on left prohibited -- Left side of pavement striping designed to mark no-passing zones. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark the no-passing zone throughout its length.

(d) Left turns. -- The driver of a vehicle may drive across the left side of the roadway in a no-passing zone while making a left turn, but only if it is safe to do so.

The gibberish is saying that anyone can pass whenever and whereever they darn well want to. Because I have yet to see a 'No Passing Zone' sign anywhere in the county.

I was on a two-lane blacktop earlier today. I was 'taking the lane', basically making the traffic behind me, cross over the double-yellow line to pass. While that may sound insane, by the motorist behind me having to cope with passing in front of oncoming traffic, means they will pass faster. Not only avoiding a collision with the oncoming traffic. But also, getting off my tail faster.

I dont care what the cagers do while Im riding so long they dont hit me, force me off the road, throw stuff at me, or hinder my enjoyment in any other way.

.... In Florida and likely other states, under SMV law, when clear and safe it is legal to cross the double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle regardless of the lane position of the SMV. Certainly if done safely, the cops are not going to bother the passing motorist. I am sure it happens frequently in states with lots of horse drawn buggies.


?????

Florida law doesn't allow passing in no passing zones. However, cyclists are frequently, even consistently passed across double yellows in Florida.

This is the common, default motorist behavior everywhere despite the law - if the road is clear, motorists pass bicyclists in no passing zones.


Every state prohibits passing in no passing zones. A few states allow it to pass bicyclists.

In Maryland, the Annotated Code says in:

Title 21
Subtitle 3
Section 307

§ 21-307. No-passing zones


(a) Establishment of zones; signs and markings. -- The State Highway Administration may determine those parts of any highway in its jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving on the left of the roadway would be especially dangerous and, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, may indicate the beginning and end of these zones. Where the signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant individual, every driver of a vehicle shall obey their directions.

(b) Driving on left prohibited -- In general. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of the roadway within the no-passing zone.

(c) Driving on left prohibited -- Left side of pavement striping designed to mark no-passing zones. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark the no-passing zone throughout its length.

(d) Left turns. -- The driver of a vehicle may drive across the left side of the roadway in a no-passing zone while making a left turn, but only if it is safe to do so.

The gibberish is saying that anyone can pass whenever and whereever they darn well want to. Because I have yet to see a 'No Passing Zone' sign anywhere in the county.

I was on a two-lane blacktop earlier today. I was 'taking the lane', basically making the traffic behind me, cross over the double-yellow line to pass. While that may sound insane, by the motorist behind me having to cope with passing in front of oncoming traffic, means they will pass faster. Not only avoiding a collision with the oncoming traffic. But also, getting off my tail faster.

I'm not sure how forcing motorists to break the law and cope with oncoming traffic translates into getting off your tail faster.

its more commonly recognized sharing the road by riding safely right equates with smoother, faster passing.

what does "safely right" mean in a substandard lane? Most rural roads have substandard lanes and there is no such thing as "safely right." They have been painting double yellows on rural roads because motorists are too willing to risk their lives and the lives of others when they can't see if a pass is safe. For some reason, we managed to dive on these same roads without double yellows for decades. In the same situation, it's safe to pass a cyclist much more often than it is another car. This whole double yellow conundrum is of recent vintage and predicated on the only road users being motorists. It really shouldn't concern us much if motorists pass us on a double yellow, I encourage it.

what does "safely right" mean in a substandard lane? Most rural roads have substandard lanes and there is no such thing as "safely right." They have been painting double yellows on rural roads because motorists are too willing to risk their lives and the lives of others when they can't see if a pass is safe. For some reason, we managed to dive on these same roads without double yellows for decades. In the same situation, it's safe to pass a cyclist much more often than it is another car. This whole double yellow conundrum is of recent vintage and predicated on the only road users being motorists. It really shouldn't concern us much if motorists pass us on a double yellow, I encourage it.


bicyclists excepted from sharing 'substandard width lane' doesn't mean there's no position safely right, or that roads with narrow lanes can't and shouldn't be shared, unterhausen...... substandard width provisions are legal allowances for bicyclists to take and control narrow lanes if necessary for their safety. Bicyclist specific substandard width provisions codify a bicyclist is legally allowed to control a narrow lane if reasonably necessary for safety.

"BIKES need not FRAP in a narrow lane" doesn't equate to a riding style where bicyclists unremittingly ride the center stripe on every rural highway, and I'm sure you recognize that, unterhausen.

There's no encouragement needed about passing bicyclists on solid double yellows, it's the default behavior of motorists everywhere regardless of state laws allowing or prohibiting it.

I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass?
More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass.
Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass.
People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down.

VCers always assume the best of drivers??
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull?
And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane??
How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM!
Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes.

I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass?
More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass.
Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass.
People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down.

VCers always assume the best of drivers??
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull?
And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane??
How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM!
Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes.

When a cyclist stays far right in the typical outside lane, too many motorists feel that they can dangerously and unlawfully squeeze through the too narrow gap between the cyclist and whatever traffic may be in the adjacent lane. If the cyclist occupies a position elsewhere in the outside lane, the motorist has to see that he has to use the adjacent lane, which he may do only when that lane is clear of traffic. With that condition present, there is no need to squeeze by the cyclist, for there is a full lane available.

I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Because we tried it and it does. Empirical results trump all theories.


We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull?
I live in a suburb of Albany, NY with 0 bike lanes.

bicyclists excepted from sharing ‘substandard width lane’ doesn’t mean there’s no position safely right, or that roads with narrow lanes can’t and shouldn’t be shared, unterhausen...... substandard width provisions are legal allowances for bicyclists to take and control narrow lanes if necessary for their safety. Bicyclist specific substandard width provisions codify a bicyclist is legally allowed to control a narrow lane if reasonably necessary for safety.

Bek, how do you figure that? IF there is a position that is “safely right” then doesn’t it stand to reason that the road in question isn’t of substandard width? How do you figure that a road with substandard width lanes is safe for a car and bicycle to safely share?


”BIKES need not FRAP in a narrow lane” doesn’t equate to a riding style where bicyclists unremittingly ride the center stripe on every rural highway, and I’m sure you recognize that, unterhausen.

Where do you get that “take the lane” equates with riding on the center stripe? That is NOT taking the lane. That is “hogging the road.”


There’s no encouragement needed about passing bicyclists on solid double yellows, it’s the default behavior of motorists everywhere regardless of state laws allowing or prohibiting it.

Just because it’s the “default” behavior of “motorists everywhere” does NOT mean that it is right or safe.

I’ve never understood why VCers think “taking a lane” will earn them a wider pass?
Uh, because experience has taught us that the more room that we leave between ourselves and the right side of the road the more space that motorists are likely to leave when they pass us on the left. I’ve personally conducted this “little experiment” myself, and the closer I ride to the ride side of the road the closer motorists will pass me. The further out into the lane I ride the more space they give me when passing. How do you explain not only mine but the findings of others in this regard? I suggest that you give it a try some time. You just might be surprised.
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass? Really, how do you figure that? If one is riding down a multi-laned road and the lane to the left is void of cars and the cyclist is taking the lane in the right hand lane how is there “less room” to pass? Or even on a standard two-lane road if the lane for the opposite direction is empty how is there “less room” to pass?
More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass. Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass. People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down. VCers always assume the best of drivers?? That hasn’t been my overall experience. Yes, sadly there are some who will do as you describe, but they’d do that no matter where we ride. Then as (if I’m not mistaken) even the AAA and other car related agency’s have said they shouldn’t be driving at that moment. Now who is thinking the worst of drivers?
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull? And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane?? How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won’t even see you-and you’ll be where they are “steering”-BAM! Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren’t where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes. As is seen by glancing to the left I live in the Tampa/St. Pete area. We have a number of colleges as well as a military (Air Force) base. I have a number of roads that I ride on that are two-lane (one each direction of travel) that the entire road is probably barely 20’ wide from side-to-side. Given that distracted drivers are likely to be swerving all over the road does it not make sense to be riding even more not less defensively? And taking the lane IS riding defensively. Do you have any stats to prove your conclusion that texters are “steering” their cars or that they’re more not less likely to hit a VCer who is taking the lane as opposed to riding FRAP?

?????

Florida law doesn't allow passing in no passing zones. However, cyclists are frequently, even consistently passed across double yellows in Florida.




316.0875 No-passing zones.—(1) The Department of Transportation and local authorities are authorized to determine those portions of any highway under their respective jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving to the left of the roadway would be especially hazardous and may, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, indicate the beginning and end of such zones, and when such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant person, every driver of a vehicle shall obey the directions thereof.
(2) Where signs or markings are in place to define a no-passing zone as set forth in subsection (1), no driver shall at any time drive on the left side of the roadway with such no-passing zone or on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark such no-passing zone throughout its length.
(3) This section does not apply when an obstruction exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the highway, nor to the driver of a vehicle turning left into or from an alley, private road or driveway.
(4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 1, ch. 76-31; s. 111, ch. 99-248.
Note.—Former s. 316.086.

Florida courts have decided that SMVs are obstructions which may be passed in a no passing zone, provided it is done safely. Of note, in Florida the term has been changed to low-speed vehicles (LSV) when they started allowing the old folk to drive their golf carts on the roads.

I'm not convinced I see a reason for this thread. Maybe I should add a poll to see how many people like to bottle traffic up behind them on "empty two lane highways"


Uh, because presumably there is (or was) some reason why the city, county or state has designated a particular area of a particular street as a no passing zone.they do this for motorists passing motorists. If the design goal was safe passing for a motorist passing a cyclist going 15 mph, the lines would be totally different.

Digital said -"Do you have any stats to prove your conclusion that texters are “steering” their cars or that they’re more not less likely to hit a VCer who is taking the lane as opposed to riding FRAP?"
Good point- -I have as much hard data as you do-ZERO !

John Forester- I get the point-take the lane and they won't make the usual close shave 3 abreast pass.

You VCers are petrified of the 3 wide pass!
The whole point of "Taking a Lane" is to prevent the 3 wide shave.

So,just how deadly is the 3 wide pass ?
Heck just 700 riders a year die-(300,000,000 people) -I wonder how many die because of the 3 wide pass??
How many injured?

Anyone have any numbers? Guesses? Plausible lies?

I'm not sure how forcing motorists to break the law and cope with oncoming traffic translates into getting off your tail faster.

its more commonly recognized sharing the road by riding safely right equates with smoother, faster passing.

My experience(at least in the D.C.-Metro region) is that it doesn't matter what a cyclist's road position is. There is still hostility towards cyclists' who 'hug the curb'. The only time I have noticed a driver really paying attention to how they pass a cyclist, is when the driver is 'forced' to cross over the double-yellow line to pass a cyclist. They will have to pass faster, for their own safety.

Depends on the state..

Some states allow crossing a double yellow line when passing slower moving traffic.
(believe it or not)
I can believe it. The Canadian Province of Alberta (and un-officially BC) requires motorists to "give one full lane" when overtaking slow moving vehicles and cyclists when possible.

I'm not convinced I see a reason for this thread. Maybe I should add a poll to see how many people like to bottle traffic up behind them on "empty two lane highways"

they do this for motorists passing motorists. If the design goal was safe passing for a motorist passing a cyclist going 15 mph, the lines would be totally different.

That implies outright premeditation. I DON'T intend to bottle up traffic, but if they don't like waiting, oh well. But my experience has been, that motorists' hate to be 'delayed' by the mere existence of a cyclist in front of them. My response to that hostility and urgency, is to 'take the lane'. I have been run off the road by my stupidly giving a motorist a chance to running me off the road. By 'taking the lane' it is experience, not premeditation that dictates my road position.

I'm not convinced I see a reason for this thread. Maybe I should add a poll to see how many people like to bottle traffic up behind them on "empty two lane highways"

By "empty two-lane highways" do you mean roads with two (or more) lanes for each direction, or "traditional" two-lane roads? If it's a road with two or more lanes per direction of travel then how is a cyclist taking the lane in the outside lane "bottling" traffic up behind them?


they do this for motorists passing motorists. If the design goal was safe passing for a motorist passing a cyclist going 15 mph, the lines would be totally different.

Then as some states have apparently done more states need to make it clear in their laws that it is legal for a motorist to pass a cyclist in a no passing zone if it is safe to do so.

I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass?
More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass.
Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass.
People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down.

VCers always assume the best of drivers??
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull?
And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane??
How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM!
Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes.

I don't assume the best of drivers. I default to all motorists' being idiots. So I am constantly looking around me, and listening for traffic behind me. That is why I 'take the lane'. Unless the motorist is a homicidal maniac, I 'force' the motorist completely into the passing lane/cross the double-yellow line. When I repeatedly look behind me, once I hear a motorist, I am looking to see what they are doing. So I am not ignorant to the potential of motorists' stupidity.

My guess is this is an attempted jab in the ribs of those cyclist who would prefer to see FRAP go away in favor of SMV laws (carry over from other thread in which almost no one agrees with Bek).


This. Classic Bek troll post.

But but-they can still shave you as close as they want?
Heck get far enough left-and they will pass you on the right-
Cars+ mirror- "just" 7.5' wide- if you are at the 10 ft mark of a 15' lane-they can-and will-blow by on the right-miss you by several inches.

In a car(small Toyota pickup)-I was passed on the right on a 2 lane road.
I passed a slow 18 wheeler-as I was pulling ahead of him before pulling back into the lane-another car passed him-gunned it to my bumper-pulled sharply right-and blew by me leaving me hanging in the left lane.
This has happened more than once-faster impatient car- long wait to get passed a slow moving vehicle-the higher performance car will hang you out in the left lane .
This usually happens in hilly areas with limited visibility-adds to the fun factor.

Some drivers are very impatient-pissed off-drunk-drugged . Taking a lane is guaranteed to piss them off- keep that head on a swivel.
You trust drivers-and your judgement- more than I would.

And most places- you have to deal with the cops-not up for that.

No #'s on 3 abreast pass deaths-injuries???

And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane??
How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM!
Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes.

Exactly. And that goes for most distracted drivers, be they texting, drunk, or otherwise impaired. Combine that with the evident fact that most bike/car accidents happen due to somehow distracted drivers...

Exactly. And that goes for most distracted drivers, be they texting, drunk, or otherwise impaired. Combine that with the evident fact that most bike/car accidents happen due to somehow distracted drivers...

That was not correct at the time of the Cross survey. I know of no survey done since with as much care. Of course, texting is something that has started since then. I suggest that there is no evidence to support the notion that "most bike/car accidents happen to somehow distracted drivers..."

Here's a question out of this:

Would knowing it's legal to pass a bicyclist in a no-passing zone make motorists more accepting of bicyclists on rural two lane highways?

. . . What's everyone's experience with traffic and solid double yellow lines? Anyone have much success preventing high speed traffic from passing in a no passing zone when the road is clear?

As a cyclist I've never tried. On uphill grinds I've been tempted to wave timid drivers past but, in light of potential unpleasant results, have restrained the impulse.

As a driver I have used the other lane to pass slow traffic when doing so is safe albeit potentially unlawful. Even when a rider is positioned far right in a sub-standard lane I do not use the same lane to pass.

Here's a question out of this:

Would knowing it's legal to pass a bicyclist in a no-passing zone make motorists more accepting of bicyclists on rural two lane highways?
That's a good question. I suspect that there do exist a substantial number of motorists who would pass better if they knew there was nothing illegal about going over the double yellow (when clear). I also suspect that there are many motorists who would be much safer if they were required to know more than how to start a car and which pedal is the brake and which is the accelerator in order to get a license.

Here's a question out of this:

Would knowing it's legal to pass a bicyclist in a no-passing zone make motorists more accepting of bicyclists on rural two lane highways?

I think it would, a little.

Here's a question out of this:

Would knowing it's legal to pass a bicyclist in a no-passing zone make motorists more accepting of bicyclists on rural two lane highways?

Excuse me for asking this question so late: How come one will find no-passing zones on American roads in places where it may actually be safe to pass? In Scandinavian countries (and, I believe, most of Europe), you'll find no-passing zones only where passing will pose considerable risk - in curves, or ascending the last 3-500 m of a hill etc.

hagen

Good point-there are lots of double yellow where there really doesn't need to be double yellow.
Of course when I used to be in more of a hurry-driving- I never paid much attention to the double yellow lines-especially in rural areas-little traffic -little chance of being caught. I would make sure I had good long clear run-drop back- hit accel-get some speed up-then swing out once I was VERY CLOSE to the car I was going to pass- blow by.

Most drivers will swing wide and blow right past a bike- vety few are so literal as to think it is OK to pass a bike as long as you don't cross the line
They won't give it a moments thought- swing out- hit gas- blow by! Actually it is hit gas-swing out-pass.
I don't think drivers will be reluctant to cross the double yellow- but there is always one really literal person-so maybe.

hagen

Good point-there are lots of double yellow where there really doesn't need to be double yellow.
Of course when I used to be in more of a hurry-driving- I never paid much attention to the double yellow lines-especially in rural areas-little traffic -little chance of being caught. I would make sure I had good long clear run-drop back- hit accel-get some speed up-then swing out once I was VERY CLOSE to the car I was going to pass- blow by.

Most drivers will swing wide and blow right past a bike- vety few are so literal as to think it is OK to pass a bike as long as you don't cross the line
They won't give it a moments thought- swing out- hit gas- blow by! Actually it is hit gas-swing out-pass.
I don't think drivers will be reluctant to cross the double yellow- but there is always one really literal person-so maybe.

Thanks for your answer. My guess is that having "too many" no passing zones will make drivers tend to ignore them. Like the "too many" stop signs I've read about here, too. I wonder what makes traffic planners implement "too many" whatever.

Thanks for your answer. My guess is that having "too many" no passing zones will make drivers tend to ignore them. Like the "too many" stop signs I've read about here, too. I wonder what makes traffic planners implement "too many" whatever.

I've noticed that, in the USA anyway, some states are better or worse than others about unnecessary double-yellow lines, low speed limits (though that seems to be more on the municipal level), construction zones that hamper traffic more than they might have, etc.

My own feeling is that it's mostly the fault of the various state Departments of Transportation. Some seem to make some effort to accommodate traffic. Others, I think, are just a bit lazy and inconsiderate.

My guess is this is an attempted jab in the ribs of those cyclist who would prefer to see FRAP go away in favor of SMV laws (carry over from other thread in which almost no one agrees with Bek). In Florida and likely other states, under SMV law, when clear and safe it is legal to cross the double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle regardless of the lane position of the SMV. Certainly if done safely, the cops are not going to bother the passing motorist. I am sure it happens frequently in states with lots of horse drawn buggies.

In PA I see people passing Amish buggies all the time regardless of whether there's a double-yellow down the middle of the road. As far as I can tell (I'm usually there for only a few weeks each year so don't know every nuance of the local laws) it's considered a perfectly acceptable thing to do when faced with such a slow-moving vehicle.

I imagine it's either technically illegal but never enforced, or there's some threshold below which a vehicle is deemed sufficiently slow-moving that passing across a double-yellow is legal.

Excuse me for asking this question so late: How come one will find no-passing zones on American roads in places where it may actually be safe to pass? In Scandinavian countries (and, I believe, most of Europe), you'll find no-passing zones only where passing will pose considerable risk - in curves, or ascending the last 3-500 m of a hill etc.

For the same reason countries post speed limits that are way lower than is necessary. In the UK I've seen speed limits on roads drop from 60 to 50 to 40 while the road itself hasn't changed at all. Then I see speed limits of 30mph extending way out of town and onto the approach to a dual carriageway. Sometimes the powers that be are kind enough to post a speed camera to catch the people accelerating towards the 70mph limit sign on the dual carriageway despite the fact such a manouevre is about as safe as it's possible to be when driving.

In the US there are vast numbers of stop signs where it's really not necessary to come to a complete stop. The overwhelming majority of stop signs I've seen in the US could easily be replaced by yield signs. When you can clearly see half a mile up and down the road it's really not necessary to stop unless you are yielding priority.

Here's a question out of this:

Would knowing it's legal to pass a bicyclist in a no-passing zone make motorists more accepting of bicyclists on rural two lane highways?
It would probably help to a degree, unless it's on a curve where visibility of oncoming traffic is limited.

So in states where it is legal to pass bikes with a double yellow-
are drivers required to not cross double yellow??
I suspect it is moot, since most drivers will just look to see if it is clear-hit gas swing by.
This is how cars pass me now-and the first and last part of my daily ride is on 1/2 mile of double yellow.
They swing fairly wide-blow by with the body of the car at least 6 feet from me- mirrors maybe 5 feet.

BIG ASIDE-
Of course I get plenty of close passes-ESPECIALLY bigger vehicles-buses trucks and 3/4 1 ton diesel pickups with the scary old fashioned tow mirrors.
Anyone else notice that older work pickups have those HARD MOUNTED tow mirrors. New ones have spring loaded wide tow mirrors
Old ones have those hard mounted wide -aftermarket looking with what looks like bracing above and below.
Work vehicles -buses- are driven by professional drivers-so they are a bit more adept-but they will shave you close.
Many 3/4 1 ton diesel pickups are driven by folks in a hurry-and they aren't pro drivers-shave you close-accidently probably-


Yeah- I'll be FRAPing- hear that older pickup diesel clatter-see a vehicle in the oncoming lane-and just know I'm going to get a close pass-maybe by a dual rear wheel pickup- hard to say-but a 1 foot mirrow pass feels very very close!
I am ready to bail off the road-and I sometimes do bail off the road(MTB style rigid-2" tires-slight lateral lugs)- but my hearing really isn't great-so...
Yes you VCers say taking a lane will eliminate close passes
1) Maybe-retaliation here would happen-100%-reasonable drivers,yeah work on them- jerks, not one bit.
2) 100% Cops would stop me-and I'm just not up to trying to educate NOLA metra area cops-too old for that battle
3) And not sure just how likely I am to be hit-injured-by a 3 wide shave(or a regular close pass which are common enough)

I crudely calculated spring loaded mirrors will give a 25 lb(100 newton) average push for maybe .1-.2 second-nasty push but probably won't break my ribs.Wreck me-probably- but blow won't break my ribs(peak force would be higher than 25 lbs not sure how much higher)
Mirrors not spring loaded-the blow would be roughly like getting hit pushed by the entire vehicle(until mirrow mounting broke )-break my 61 yo ribs.

I love to ride bicycles- but if living as long as possible was my goal-I wouldn't ride a bike on streets. I would exercise some other way-drive to levee- unload bike-ride on levee-waste fuel and $$.
On the bright side it is safer than 1968 when I started city street riding a lot.
Charlie

?????

Florida law doesn't allow passing in no passing zones. However, cyclists are frequently, even consistently passed across double yellows in Florida.

This is the common, default motorist behavior everywhere despite the law - if the road is clear, motorists pass bicyclists in no passing zones.


Every state prohibits passing in no passing zones. A few states allow it to pass bicyclists.

I am happy to see that some people are capable of applying common sense to traffic laws that were developed around passenger cars as a standard.

Paul
right-no one pays much attention to double yellow-especially in respect to not passing bikes- very narrow very short very slow- very easy/quick TO PASS
Wide long slightly 18 wheelers-different story
Drivers substitute their own judgement.
It isn't easy-lucrative- to set up cameras to catch double yellow line passes-so we do it.

Thanks for your answer. My guess is that having "too many" no passing zones will make drivers tend to ignore them. Like the "too many" stop signs I've read about here, too. I wonder what makes traffic planners implement "too many" whatever.

Pressure.

Either pressure from local elected officials trying to appease those who elected them to office. Or the locals who think that there is something either dangerous or unsafe about a given road or intersection.

Yield signs are another sign that are ignored on a regular basis. So much so that stop signs are used instead of yield signs. Such as there is a roundabout that I ride through on a daily basis. It has signs that make it VERY clear that people are to yield to traffic already in the circle.

They don't they don't slow down in the slightest. They just go through at the posted speed before and after the circle.

I think that sadly, that it comes down to the fact that most American's are ni a "hurry to get nowhere fast." And that when they have to be somewhere at a certain time that they wait until the last minute before leaving. And then get impatient with those who are trying to actually drive the speed limit.

I've noticed that, in the USA anyway, some states are better or worse than others about unnecessary double-yellow lines, low speed limits (though that seems to be more on the municipal level), construction zones that hamper traffic more than they might have, etc.

My own feeling is that it's mostly the fault of the various state Departments of Transportation. Some seem to make some effort to accommodate traffic. Others, I think, are just a bit lazy and inconsiderate.

Uh, why are slow speed limits a "bad thing?" What is the "need" to be able to travel at a high rate of speed within a town/city?

For the same reason countries post speed limits that are way lower than is necessary. In the UK I've seen speed limits on roads drop from 60 to 50 to 40 while the road itself hasn't changed at all. Then I see speed limits of 30mph extending way out of town and onto the approach to a dual carriageway. Sometimes the powers that be are kind enough to post a speed camera to catch the people accelerating towards the 70mph limit sign on the dual carriageway despite the fact such a manouevre is about as safe as it's possible to be when driving.

In the US there are vast numbers of stop signs where it's really not necessary to come to a complete stop. The overwhelming majority of stop signs I've seen in the US could easily be replaced by yield signs. When you can clearly see half a mile up and down the road it's really not necessary to stop unless you are yielding priority.

But sadly as has been said before too many people ignore even the yield signs. Not even bothering to slow down in the least little bit.