Living Car Free - Backpacks & "Store Policy."

Although this subject has been hashed-out here in LCFland, I wish to address the issue of policy enforcement and inconsistency.

I buy food-stuffs at the local-family-owned Grocery Outlet. I arrive by bike for 19/20 times I buy here. Winter means me a well wrapped-up mess, the summer a sweaty mess--both messes include a CamelBak. Hey, one needs water, no?

They have a "no backpack" policy. Good. I know this and have no qualms.

Through all the years of my buying here, and the majority of staff here being longterm, it's a great local "institution." I like it alot.

To the purpose--I've only once been asked to surrender the backpack, this being a few summers ago.

Today, a gal who has been clerking here for some few years, and to whom I've paid for my chosen goods from within my backpack on many an occasion, today implements the backpack policy. I was almost 10 seconds towards the produce area after her "how-are-you-doing-customer?" greeting when she started in on the implementation. So I ask:

*paraphrase* Considering my longish-term relationship with this store, why today with me do you choose enforcing this policy. I, for my wondering, get palms-up blandishments: "store policy," "I'm sorry," "store policy," more "I'm sorry, store policy...." I was attempting, via my asking, to make plain to her (she's a very pleasant earthy gal) the inconsistent--and therefore I feel officious--nature of this situation. I, however, tasting my foot and suddenly lamenting I'd not just stfu from the outset, gave over to her my pack, kindly (hopefully) telling her to avoid "this part of the pack as it is very wet due to the hot day (it is finally over 100 degrees here in Redding)."

It's like her "programming" suddenly kicked-in and over-rode her abilty to reason & my asking "are you serious" utterly boorish, causing her to become out of countenance. Before today I would not have thought her like this. I felt a tool, but at the same time I felt undeserving this shame. I was merely there for a mid-ride two banana refresher, and now I'm boo-hooing to y'all (thanks y'all fer being y'all).

I'll of my own volition in future adhere to the policy, but dangalang, why do people, especially those with whom one correctly presumes a "familiarity", affect in ways such as this?

Wait, don't answer that:D

Safeway likes to pick and choose when their imaginary policy needs to be enforced. I've asked for a claim ticket but their policy doesn't include safe guarding your property they think they can seize. so I tell them it's my policy to not abandon my backpack without a claim check.
the funny thing is the thieves are the ones pushing baby carriages around with a blanket tossed over the top. I try to explain I use my bag as shopping cart, so I'll fit it all in, nope.
a store's rules can not defy a state's or fed's laws.

A long time ago I got hit with the no-backpacks thing. After that I'd ask a clerk to watch my bag. None of that was any fun.

Since then I found a backpack made of thin polyester that can fold up so small as to put in a pocket when not in use.
Problem gone

I wrassled for a long time with Kroger and their backpack policies and on-again off-again enforcement.

Finally I got a rack and two Sunlite Grocery Getter panniers. They hold more than twice as much as my biggest backpack and they just sweep right into Kroger. Any challenges from the guards and I just show them that they are shopping bags and breeze right in. I've grown to like them so much that I rarely use the backpack anymore unless I'm carrying a laptop.

http://di1-1.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/51/d2/2a/99297088-260x260-0-0_Sunlite+Sunlite+Grocery+Getter+Bike+Pannier+Bag+1+.jpg

1. "Oh really? Well my policy is to not do business w/ companies that dick w/ me. You might want to let your management structure know that as long as they hassle me about my backpack while turning a blind eye to some of the enormous purses being toted around here they'll not see another dime from me."

2. There's a local electronics outlet here that makes a show of checking receipts against the contents of shopping bags as the customers leave the store. Bear in mind that customers are funneled into a checkout line and from there straight out the door. As you leave an employee walks up to you and says "Can I see your receipt?" Then they want to look in your bags to make sure you're not toting any other goods out of the store.

I do one of two things. First I simply say "No" as I breeze by them. Second, I'll hand them my receipt and keep walking, saying "and you can throw it out for me as well" as I breeze by.

I know it's not the employees fault. They're simply doing what they've been told by their bosses - who in turn are only passing along what some suit who never has to implement policy thinks should be done. It's easy to make policies when sitting on your rear end in an office. It's a bit more of a PITA to have to implement policies put forth by a bunch of suits all eager to seem more enthusiastic than the next suit. However, all this loss prevention store policy nonsense seems to lose sight of the fact that they wouldn't be in business were it not for people like me spending money at their locations. Hassling customers is not good policy.

That might sound a bit harsh, but you gotta remember I was raised around a bunch of World War II vets. Tacit accusations of potential thievery was a good way to wind up w/ a fattened lip. I'm pretty squishy compared to those guys.

so I tell them it's my policy to not abandon my backpack without a claim check.
nice. i'll have to put that line in rotation with, "if you can't keep people from stealing your merchandise, how are you going to keep someone from stealing my bag?" that's for a local shop that has big (unlocked, unsupervised) cabinets where they expect people to leave their bags. the one time someone asked me to leave my pannier bags there (at the time i was pretty rough looking, recovering from a nasty concussion and it would have been reasonable if someone thought i was a drunken bum) i asked who was going to be responsible for my bags. a manager accepted responsibility for them, so i left them with him.

that said, there are other times when i'll be asked to leave my bags at the desk, and i just say "thank you" as i hand the bags over. carrying them can be the PITS (pain in the shoulders).

when i worked in retail, i was taught that there are two ways to discourage "loss". the second best way is to have "security" such as bag checks, receipt checks, RFID tags, etc. the best way is to provide good customer service! the first step in that is being aware of everyone in the store, and being nearby in case they need help! so the big-box stores that cut costs by cutting staff are really shooting themselves in the foot... the best/easiest stores to steal from are the stores where you're left alone to do your shopping. the "greeter" is meant to instil a sense of being watched, but it only works (at a subconscious level) to keep honest people honest; the bad guys know that no one noticed them walk in, no one is paying any attention to them, and no one will notice them leaving.

I very occasionally shop at a near by Walmart, prefer not to for a variety of reasons. I am headed out the door one day with a couple of cases of water, "greeter" stops me and wants to see my receipt... in the meantime several less than desirable appearing characters in overcoats speed past us and out the doors setting of the alarms. Idiot greeter keeps checking my receipt for the $7 worth of water I have. :rolleyes: I am sure several hundred dollars worth of products left the store while making sure I wasn't stealing $7 worth of water. Typical...

Aaron :)

Hmm, I've never had my backpack cause any trouble at a grocery store. Bars and clothing stores yes, but never grocery stores.

The folks at Wrigley Field always hated my bag. I'd go to the games after work, so my bag was full of clothes and half eaten lunches. But they still let me in and didn't make me check the bag.

Yesterday I learned that my company wants me to drive the school bus at five miles per hour around all corners. Get on your bicycle and pedal at that speed and see just how slow that is. Imagine a forty foot bus going around all corners at that speed. Pulling into traffic is going to take a long time and in my opinion will be dangerous for the traffic around me. There are seventy buses in our fleet.

People in corporate offices just don't have a clue about what makes sense in the real world. So when security people approach me wanting me to leave my back pack, while they don't ask for women's purses, it makes no sense at all and is insulting. That hasn't happened to me for a few years.

Yesterday I learned that my company wants me to drive the school bus at five miles per hour around all corners. Get on your bicycle and pedal at that speed and see just how slow that is. Imagine a forty foot bus going around all corners at that speed. Pulling into traffic is going to take a long time and in my opinion will be dangerous for the traffic around me.

If the Clark County School District had had that policy, my step-brother might still be alive.

http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2010/05/03/0503fatal05_t653.JPG?214bc4f9d9bd7c08c7d0f6599bb3328710e01e7b

Motorcyclist dies in collision with school bus (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/03/motorcyclist-dies-collision-school-bus-sahara/)

I had a very positive experience with a Trader Joes (http://www.traderjoes.com/) in Chicago a month ago. The GF and I met her college age daughter for dinner by the store, and all three of us had backpacks. Trader Joes is the one grocery store i actually enjoy shopping in, besides healthy food the corporate mindset is pretty refreshing - but I was afraid we weren't going to be able to bring our backpacks in with us. The store customers are typically younger, more active and health conscious, but this store was downtown and most stores there won't let you bring in your backpack. Most people in the store had them, including the couple of bike commuters I saw, and it seemed to be a typical experience there.

I haven't had troubles with bringing a backpack in other grocery stores out in the suburbs, and haven't been asked about the items I put in there (while the backpack is in the cart) before checking out. It's the best way I've found to avoid buying more than I can carry, and figure my past purchases with the store would make me look like less of a risk if anyone asked why I was putting merchandise in my bag before paying for it.

If the Clark County School District had had that policy, my step-brother might still be alive.

http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2010/05/03/0503fatal05_t653.JPG?214bc4f9d9bd7c08c7d0f6599bb3328710e01e7b

Motorcyclist dies in collision with school bus (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/03/motorcyclist-dies-collision-school-bus-sahara/)

Sorry to read of your loss.

I don't wear a packpack but if I did,I would give to them to put next to all of the purses that the ladies have given up upon entry......With a claim check.......and one of us is going to be responsible for it......so take your pick......

It's the best way I've found to avoid buying more than I can carry

My trick for that is to just use the hand baskets and not push a cart. I know once the hand basket is full, it's time to go.

I hate backpacks, so I haven't had an issue. I *have* pushed my bike into a store three times (three different stores) and used it as a shopping cart. I only got asked to not do it again once.

Yesterday I learned that my company wants me to drive the school bus at five miles per hour around all corners. .

As a former bus driver, I think this is a sane policy. Luckily, a bus is much more visible than a bike.

My trick for that is to just use the hand baskets and not push a cart. I know once the hand basket is full, it's time to go.

I use the kiddy seat to measure my capacity. When it's full, my two panniers will be too. And the front basket of the cart makes a great place to load the panniers after I have made my purchases.

It's the best way I've found to avoid buying more than I can carry,

I don't use a backpack when grocery shopping, I use panniers, and the panniers can be hooked onto the sides of a shopping cart - it makes for a good visual comparison to make sure that everything will fit.

I hate backpacks, so I haven't had an issue. I *have* pushed my bike into a store three times (three different stores) and used it as a shopping cart. I only got asked to not do it again once.
I've heard of people doing this, but I've never seen it done anywhere except in a bike store.

I never give up my backpack when entering a store and I have never been refused access or service. I simply tell them that I have a corporate laptop in my bag and that it contains client IHI data that I use in my work, and that it would be a criminal violation of HIPPA rules for me to hand over the backpack. Never fails.

I haven't had troubles with bringing a backpack in other grocery stores out in the suburbs, and haven't been asked about the items I put in there (while the backpack is in the cart) before checking out. It's the best way I've found to avoid buying more than I can carry, and figure my past purchases with the store would make me look like less of a risk if anyone asked why I was putting merchandise in my bag before paying for it.
i wouldn't do that, unless i first talk to the manager. in most/all states the legal definition of shoplifting includes "wilful concealment of merchandise". that means putting merchandise where it can't be seen.

just imagine yourself trying to explain to the judge why you were filling your backpack with merchandise, and from the judge's experience, would s/he believe that you really intended to pay for it? what happens if the judge doesn't believe you?

not a bad idea to do it that way, but make sure it's ok with the manager, first.

I imagine that when they ask a respectable looking bike rider to check his/her backpack, it's because they ARE trying to be consistent. They probably don't suspect the rider, but they have experienced students who rob them blind with their backpacks. It isn't vvery fair to tell students they can't wear backpacks, but let a bike rider do it.

On a practical level, I've found that the issue can often be avoided by putting the pack in a shopping cart before entering the store. Evidently it doesn't register as a BACKpack unless it's being worn on the back! I know that's stupid, but it's kind of the way the human mind works.

I agree that you shouldn't be asked to leave your pack out in the open. A couple clerks recently told me that I could just leave my pack on the floor behind the cash register and they would "keep an eye on it." I said that I knew they worked hard to help the customers, so it wasn't fair to ask them to watch my pack also. I asked to put it behind the manager's "cage" and they let me.

I never give up my backpack when entering a store and I have never been refused access or service. I simply tell them that I have a corporate laptop in my bag and that it contains client IHI data that I use in my work, and that it would be a criminal violation of HIPPA rules for me to hand over the backpack. Never fails.

Man... I'd let you in too.. I'd be worried you might stop to translate it for me.

On a practical level, I've found that the issue can often be avoided by putting the pack in a shopping cart before entering the store. Evidently it doesn't register as a BACKpack unless it's being worn on the back! I know that's stupid, but it's kind of the way the human mind works.

You'd think they would see that as a bigger security issue than a pack on your back. After all, how are you going to stuff items in your bag if it's on your back?

And, as well, do they stop ladies who wander into the store with purses?

man... I'd let you in too.. I'd be worried you might stop to translate it for me.

... :innocent:

I simply refuse to shop in a place that won't let me carry a backpack. The stuff I carry would cost me several hundred dollars to replace, but it's more the principle of the thing. If there's a sign, I just ignore it, and most of the time no one says anything. If they do challenge me, I leave without buying anything, and let them know why. However, I never put anything into my pack or my panniers until I'm in the checkout line and it's already been rung up.

I just ignore the signs and keep my pack on both shoulders the whole time. Never been stopped.

I'm pleased to note a significant number of people posting in this tread have noted the persistent discrimination against men. For years I've observed how special provisions are made for women's purses, bags and crepe. Notice how when you take a plane flight, aerosols are banned, except for small quantities for personal use (i.e. a woman's hairspray). WTF! If something is dangerous then don't allow it on the plane - end of story. I'm sick of special rules for women. Acetone is listed amongst the items banned from a plane flight, but how many women carry nail polish remover in their bags?? Double standard.

Years ago I was stopped on my way out of a grocery store while wearing my back pack. I did put my groceries into it after I paid for all of it. I never took it off while in the store and it was a store that charged for bags so nearly everyone brought bags or picked up boxes. As I left, an employee stopped me and demanded I open up my bag for her. This never happened before, the receipt was still in my hand, and I was cranky after a long day at work. Told her no, I'm in a rush to get home, and she told me to stay put while she called the police. I snickered and left. Shopped there again a few days later, carrying the same back pack, and no one said a thing. I'll guess and say she was nabbing the wrong miscreant.

I just ignore the signs and keep my pack on both shoulders the whole time. Never been stopped.

I have, and the local Krogers hire off-duty city police as security guards. All I did was walk in and begin my shopping and got informed that I could either surrender the backpack or leave. That kind of thing happened frequently. Shopping panniers are a wonderful solution to the situation. It's a stupid game, but the panniers make it win-win.

I'm pleased to note a significant number of people posting in this tread have noted the persistent discrimination against men. For years I've observed how special provisions are made for women's purses, bags and crepe. Notice how when you take a plane flight, aerosols are banned, except for small quantities for personal use (i.e. a woman's hairspray). WTF! If something is dangerous then don't allow it on the plane - end of story. I'm sick of special rules for women. Acetone is listed amongst the items banned from a plane flight, but how many women carry nail polish remover in their bags?? Double standard.

Probably some truth in what you say, but I gotta say... this is really a switch. For the last 300,000 years, the shoe was on the other foot. It was always the women who were discriminated against.

Ain't it wonderful? :)

I don't know what the hell is wrong with all those that complain about leaving their backpacks at the door or outside.

Did all of you forget that there is a terror war still going on?

Backpacks are ideal means to get an explosive device into a public place and kill lots of people.

Shakes head in utter disgust at the spoiled narrow minded public...........

I don't know what the hell is wrong with all those that complain about leaving their backpacks at the door or outside.

Did all of you forget that there is a terror war still going on?

Backpacks are ideal means to get an explosive device into a public place and kill lots of people.

Shakes head in utter disgust at the spoiled narrow minded public...........

Most of the devices I have seen would fit just fine in a vest under a coat...ever heard of suicide bombers? They don't need no stinking backpack.

And I would be willing to wager the reason that the stores don't want backpacks has nothing to do with terrorism and much to do with shrinkage.

Aaron:

When I started shopping at my local Kroger's I checked in at the customer desk before shopping and haven't had a problem. While living in Arizona I use to go shopping w/ my motorcycle and having a helmet w/ a backpack was never questioned.

I don't use a backpack when grocery shopping, I use panniers, and the panniers can be hooked onto the sides of a shopping cart - it makes for a good visual comparison to make sure that everything will fit. I've done that too, but usually walk to the store.


i wouldn't do that, unless i first talk to the manager. in most/all states the legal definition of shoplifting includes "wilful concealment of merchandise". that means putting merchandise where it can't be seen.

just imagine yourself trying to explain to the judge why you were filling your backpack with merchandise, and from the judge's experience, would s/he believe that you really intended to pay for it? what happens if the judge doesn't believe you?

not a bad idea to do it that way, but make sure it's ok with the manager, first.

I've wondered about that too, but haven't even had many strange looks when putting things in my backpack while the backpack is in the cart while shopping. One store I shop at (Aldis) has a long shelf set up for people to transfer their groceries to their bags, and they've never said anything about my backpack in the cart. I think they expect it there. They did say not to worry about it when I found out they'd undercharged me one day, and wouldn't let me pay for the extra can of tuna I got for free.

Part of my not having any problems doing this may come from the fact that people have been telling me I look like a FBI agent for years. Who knows what would have happened if I looked differently?
d

I think we all realize that most of these backpack rules are made for "younger" shoppers. Most every place I have ever seen a sign about backpacks has had a school close by on is on the main path between a school and housing tract. I have a seperate bike for shopping and I tend to take a trailer. But on those times when I do use my back pack, So far, I have not been challenged.

I think we all realize that most of these backpack rules are made for "younger" shoppers. Most every place I have ever seen a sign about backpacks has had a school close by on is on the main path between a school and housing tract. I have a seperate bike for shopping and I tend to take a trailer. But on those times when I do use my back pack, So far, I have not been challenged.

I think you're absolutely correct. I think it would really be unfair if stores let people over 25 use backpacks, but banned student age groups. Also, a new employee will be all gung-ho on enforcing a policy that more senior workers wink at. And a store might suddenly tighten down if they've had a string of shoplifting events that involved backpacks.

I think you're absolutely correct. I think it would really be unfair if stores let people over 25 use backpacks, but banned student age groups. Also, a new employee will be all gung-ho on enforcing a policy that more senior workers wink at. And a store might suddenly tighten down if they've had a string of shoplifting events that involved backpacks.

Dunno...our local mall started a no one under 18 unless accompanied by a parent on Friday and Saturday night policy. Starts at 6 pm until close. They will issue ID's to the under 18's that work there.

Aaron :)

I've seen the signs quite a few times. I just ignore them. So far no problems. I carry perhaps around a thousand dollars of equipment with me, so I'm not just going to leave my bag to anyone. I've never put anything in my backpack before buying it. That would just really look suspicious.


On a practical level, I've found that the issue can often be avoided by putting the pack in a shopping cart before entering the store. Evidently it doesn't register as a BACKpack unless it's being worn on the back! I know that's stupid, but it's kind of the way the human mind works.

Not a bad idea.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with all those that complain about leaving their backpacks at the door or outside.

Did all of you forget that there is a terror war still going on?

Backpacks are ideal means to get an explosive device into a public place and kill lots of people.

But the stores are demanding that we leave the packs in their customer service areas, usually. Does that sound like they are worried about terrorism or shrinkage?

I don't know what the hell is wrong with all those that complain about leaving their backpacks at the door or outside.

Did all of you forget that there is a terror war still going on?

Backpacks are ideal means to get an explosive device into a public place and kill lots of people.

Shakes head in utter disgust at the spoiled narrow minded public...........

You're kidding me, right?

How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since....say.....1950?

You have a better chance of being killed by lightening than you have of being killed by a terrorist.

God save us from those that would "protect" us from every imaginable threat.

You want to save lives? Demand that it become illegal for people to text & drive. If you have a cell phone in your hand or next to your head when behind the wheel - immediate $500 fine. You'll save alot more lives per year than any kind of TSA nonsense has.

Few random comments from me.

The last time I was asked to hand over my bag to customer service due to the no backpacks rule was a second hand thrift store in Cleveland. Used clothing store. Everything was under 10 bucks. Junk store. I don't understand.

Same day, I walked into a nice grocery store also in Cleveland with my backpack on. This place also had a no backpack rule. I proceed to use my backpack as a grocery bag before paying for items. Armed real deal police were in the stores as security guards watching me. No issues. I don't understand.

As a former bus driver, I think this is a sane policy. Luckily, a bus is much more visible than a bike.As a trucker, I know just how invisible large vehicles can be. Yes, invisible. It's amazing how people can fail to see that 65'-long, 8'-wide, 10'-high tanker truck!!!

I really don't mind checking my bag when entering a store as I am usually glad to get the weight off my back. However I get really really angry when a security guard comes over demanding to search my bag when nobody told me bags are not allowed. I would have checked it had i been told about this policy so no you cant search my bag. This happened at some party store before Halloween.

Few random comments from me.

The last time I was asked to hand over my bag to customer service due to the no backpacks rule was a second hand thrift store in Cleveland. Used clothing store. Everything was under 10 bucks. Junk store. I don't understand.

Same day, I walked into a nice grocery store also in Cleveland with my backpack on. This place also had a no backpack rule. I proceed to use my backpack as a grocery bag before paying for items. Armed real deal police were in the stores as security guards watching me. No issues. I don't understand.

The upscale grocery store could afford security, the thrift store couldn't. Retail security is trained to watch people with backpacks like a hawk. As are everyone from the store manager to stockers.

Roll the empty packpack up, or fold it, and put it in the cart when you're still outside of the entry. Don't put anything in it while you're shopping. I've never had any grocery store pay any attention when I do it that way.

I've had a mall music/video store demand I check in a backpack - and I will no longer grace their establishment with my patronage. Life is too short to waste time dealing with insulting store policies.

I never give up my panniers even when asked. I went into wal mart once and the lady started giving me a hard time about leaving my bags up front. I told her that I'm not gonna do that and that I was gonna go shopping, she could kick me out if she wanted to. never got told to leave my bags up front again. I never put anything in my bags until I leave the store. But I won't leave my 200 dollar panniers and the hundred's of dollars worth of stuff to some strangers. I've even wheeled my bike into a few stores and only got told not to once, I still do it though!

Kroger, UGO, Walmart:

Never been even looked at twice with my backpack (small GoLite Vo24).

Sounds like a store that's not too eager to have your business. Reward them by shopping elsewhere.

I think we all realize that most of these backpack rules are made for "younger" shoppers.
Yep, sometimes there are advantages to being a "grown up". I also think it's easier now that many people are bringing their own bags to the store with them, and the backpack in the shopping cart doesn't look much different than the shopping bags in the grocery cart.

Yep, sometimes there are advantages to being a "grown up". I also think it's easier now that many people are bringing their own bags to the store with them, and the backpack in the shopping cart doesn't look much different than the shopping bags in the grocery cart.

So true. I haven't used plastic bags for a very long time and now several cities have banned them so lots of people are bringing their own bags. When I go shopping I have a bag full of bags with me. However when I go to the small pharmacy close to my house they have the check your backpack sign so I bring one of those small folding bags made from nylon and fold it up and put in in my back pocket.