Fifty Plus (50+) - Is this the "one foot in the grave" forum or the whiners forum?

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Its one of the minor pleasures and perks of approaching elderhood to be able to readily match one's aches, pains and illnesses with one's peers

Suddenly WE are the aunts and uncles who, when we were kids would tell of their bladder probs, or denture aches, or rheumytize.

I tune out the threads concerned with it all and go on to other more pertinent threads.

With the elderly one can't blank them out completely for sev reasons...they have GREAT bilt in appitudes for child caring when one wants to get away from the li'l B-------ds for some personal R&R, and to be quite frank the oldsters here have had some experiences that are funny or informative

I mean the jokes they can pass one to us while heard undergoing a hip replacement, or cataract removal are priceless, and weight problems, why my gracious Miz Molly, they are endless, and hilarious, why just the other day in the supermercado I saw a patron in one of the electric shopping carts, at least 2 axe handles wide in the bottom, loading the basket with fritos,REAL ice cream, not the lo-cal, no sugar kind, loaves of WHITE bread,gosh was I jealous

In a decade or two, Ron, quess what?, YOU are going to be the enemy

If it gets too distressing just press delete and go on to another thread.
Let the elders have their time on the porch with their friends

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Good morning, RonH!

Having a great day?

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.


You might be Ron out of town on this one.

I have a friend with whom I used to go riding at least once a week. Lately, I have kinda been avoiding riding with him. Every ride involves long, detailed discussions of his various ailments. And, detailed stories of his visits to the doctor, and what happened at the pharmacy. This treatment versus that treatment. Boring at best. Depressing at worst.

And, on the whole, his health is as good as most guys born during the Truman era. His health allowed him to ride his bike more than 300 days last year. Lots of teen-agers would be be happy to be as healthy or as fit as this guy.

It is productive to ask: "how can I set up my bike to reduce stress on my hands and wrists?" It is NOT productive to endlessly complain about the pain, while not really seeking any solutions.

I have been VERY lucky with my health. My only good opportunity to "whine" came after an auto accident damaged my back. Terrible pain. Could not use one arm. Could not use one leg. I quickly discovered none of my friends wanted to hear about it. I was a bit stung by their intense lack of interest in my suffering...but...I have never been much interested in hearing about THEIR suffering either.

So, I would hope people feel free to ask "Does treatment A seem to help a swollen knee better than treatment B?" But, I suspect there is not a lot of interest in just hearing complaints about swollen knees, unrelated to a search for solutions.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Don't read them ...

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Then don't visit this section of the forum...
Oh, and by the way......
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON YOUR WAY OUT.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.


Awww, c'mon Ron. Give it a rest. You're giving me a headache...you know, the kind that kinda circles around the top of your head and goes down the back of your neck. It makes my eyes hurt, too. Have you ever had one of those? Sometimes they last for days. What do you take for yours, Ron? I used to take aspirin, but now I take ibuprofen. Tylenol doesn't do it for me but I have a sister that really swears by it. She has a knee that got banged up in an accident once. She can tell when a storm's brewing just by the way her knee starts aching. My back's thataway too. The last big summer storm that rolled through here--well, I couldn't hardly get out of bed. Mama and I kinda laid there all morning all snuggled up and...well, the rest of it ain't none of your doggone business...

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Before we actually return to the pure topic of cycling; are there any other topics on your list that should be banned? While you are at it, maybe you could post a list of banned subjects in each area of the forum.

Can't you guys take anything seriously? I vote for "One foot in the grave." It sounds cooler. Or even better, "Un pie en el sepelcro."

Terex

El silbar más allá del cementerio.

It isn't about being old. People of all ages whine--only the content changes.
A lot of ailments are helped by exercize and weight reduction--many are not. I doubt if you know the difference.
Try to distinguish between those who are merely "whining" and the majority who are seeking a solution to their aches and pains.
Hope that you live long enough to have these aches and pains.
Lighten up.
As someone else said: Don't let the door hit you...

As you get older, you run into physical and medical problems. 2 of which are heart problems and Cancer. I know that when I had my bypass, I had no one to turn to for advice. My surgeon had no experience of any one wanting to return to a drastic physical exercise so soon after a bypass. It was suck and see time and I learnt a lot. If I can pass my experience's on to anyone that is coming up for the op, or has just had one, I will.

Now about that tiredness that I get after a 65 mile ride, Anyone got any cures?

Hope that you live long enough to have these aches and pains.
I'm already there. I'm 60 years old but would rather discuss cycling. If I want to read about medical problems I'll stop by WebMD.

I don't mind real bike-related medical discussions like, "I'm having knee surgery. How long will I be off the bike?" or "How much has your cholesterol level or BP dropped since you started riding?" or "I'm XX years old and training for my first century. What should I be doing to get ready?"




I know that when I had my bypass, I had no one to turn to for advice. My surgeon had no experience of any one wanting to return to a drastic physical exercise so soon after a bypass.
You would have been asking the kind of questions I don't mind reading. We're all here to help people with questions.
I don't like the complainers who start off with "I can't..." or "I'm too old...".

When I have one foot in the grave, I'll be shouting "Woo Hoo! What a ride!"

Gee, I'm kind of with Ron on this one. I get pretty depressed reading this forum sometimes. :)

Okay - I guess I am one of the guilty ones on this topic.

So I thought I was invincible 4 months ago, that I was in great shape, but I got hit by something that stopped my bicycling cold. And I discussed it on this forum, because it DID stop or slow down my bicycling, and because, honestly, I was scared s*****ss.

And the funny thing is that it can happen to any of us.

Through this group, I have found, both through posting and by private mail, a number of folks who have or are going through the same thing, and they are all wondering the same thing: "How does this affect my life and my exercising (read bicycling)."

And it has been of tremendous help to me to correspond with others about these issues, and to be able to be reassured that I can cycle and other things.

Every single one of us - every one - can get hit with a problem that throws us for a loop. And, sadly, the chances that will happen increase greatly as we add more years to our lives. And it all affects our cycling and our health, and it helps to have other bicyclists with whom to discuss these issues.

What seems strange to me is that is that the thread I have been posting to is entitled

"Harrowing Experience - Update On Palpitations"

which is easily recognized, and which a person must make a conscious choice to read, because they KNOW what it will be about.

If it bothers you, then why read it?

Anyway, I am going to keep posting despite Ron's and other's wishes because I have encountered so many folks going through the same thing, and I have received so much good advice and support from many in this group. and, yes, it IS bicycling related.

So, put me on your "ignore" list, avoid any threads where the title makes it clear, and lighten up a bit!

Okay - I guess I am one of the guilty ones on this topic.

So I thought I was invincible 4 months ago, that I was in great shape, but I got hit by something that stopped my bicycling cold. And I discussed it on this forum, because it DID stop or slow down my bicycling, and because, honestly, I was scared s*****ss.

And the funny thig is that can happen to any of us. . . .



Aaaahh, yer not guilty! It is good to share a scary thing with others, the problem here is most everyone is to the age when scary things start happening more frequently and so you need to talk more about them.

I'd like Ron to post the same thing in the road forum, or in mountain biking or even on the General discussion and see how far it gets him.

He's complaining as if there are no other complaints about crashes, bodily injury, sickness, disease, etc anywhere else on bike forums. Give me a break--and some of those posts elsewhere are bragging
about the injuries they recieve, as if it makes the size of their testicles increase when they get hurt. . .

...I don't like the complainers who start off with "I can't..." or "I'm too old...".
Sorry. I guess I haven't been reading the forum long enough to run across many of those. Or I just zoned them out.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Yeah, I know just how you feel. I get tired of reading posts that tell everybody else what to post about and what to reply to.

DnvrFox, you realise I have had to resist a rather pointed post about old people's homes and cranky residents.

Give 'em helll, Ron............I am with you all the way

DnvrFox, you realise I have had to resist a rather pointed post about old people's homes and cranky residents.

Congratulations on your self-discipline!

With Sleep Apnea, Atrial Fibrillation and strange hypertension, I still managed to get in 4,000+ miles last year, which I bet beat about 90% of the posters in the 50+ forum. It was a bit difficult keeping my bike at the nursing home (a whole other thread - how do you store bicycles in a nursing home?), but the other ancient and debilitated residents still consider me a real jokester! Not cranky at all.

But the nice thing is the food is so lousy there that I have managed to lose about 32 pounds since a couple of years back.

Ron - There are 2 sides to every argument, we just don't have time to listen to yours!!!

DnvrFox, I don't consider myself a whiner listener and don't consider you a whiner. I've found this post to be very interesting, especially from the perspective of what a pain in the ass it is to have health problems and how we should all appreciate life more when we don't have them. Your tales of the tests will have me prepared if I ever have similar problems. Thanks!

I'm already there. I'm 60 years old but would rather discuss cycling. If I want to read about medical problems I'll stop by WebMD.

I don't mind real bike-related medical discussions like, "I'm having knee surgery. How long will I be off the bike?" or "How much has your cholesterol level or BP dropped since you started riding?" or "I'm XX years old and training for my first century. What should I be doing to get ready?"




You would have been asking the kind of questions I don't mind reading. We're all here to help people with questions.
I don't like the complainers who start off with "I can't..." or "I'm too old...".
Just a simple observation-I think you (Ron) are whining about the posts here!

Fine whiners improve with age.

DnvrFox, I don't consider myself a whiner listener and don't consider you a whiner. I've found this post to be very interesting, especially from the perspective of what a pain in the ass it is to have health problems and how we should all appreciate life more when we don't have them. Your tales of the tests will have me prepared if I ever have similar problems. Thanks!



You are welcome. Thanks for the very positive note.

Fine whiners improve with age.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

As does the "Bouquet."

Well why not!
"I'm 57 years old and am starting training for my first century." Actually the goal is 3 centuries this spring/summer. Mar 6 (a flat one) Ap 24 (4300'gain) and July 25 (5000'gain). I rode about 50 mi per week for the last 9 months and probably have a good base.
"What do I need to do to get ready?"
Thanks.
John

Just today, a new member has posted in the thread "Harrowing . . . " that "Interestingly, long-distance cyclist and marthoners are four times more likely to develop afib."

Seems to me this is pretty bicycle specific, and important info for us all to know!

DnvrFox- glad your back - Can't keep and old broken down 'POSITIVE thinking' 50+ year old down can ya!!!!!!! Reading this forum keeps me positive about biking till my 90's and beyond (god willing)!
Yea Ha - Off to an afternoon Ride!

Well why not!
"I'm 57 years old and am starting training for my first century." Actually the goal is 3 centuries this spring/summer. Mar 6 (a flat one) Ap 24 (4300'gain) and July 25 (5000'gain). I rode about 50 mi per week for the last 9 months and probably have a good base.
"What do I need to do to get ready?"
Thanks.
John

The base is there. If you do much more than 50 at a stint, then you'll be up to a hundred. Incidentally do you mean the Metric which is 65 miles or the true 100 miles?

A flat 100 will give you a bit of training for the next one that will take in a few slopes. Hills are not a problem providing you do not race them. Take then steady, change down to keep the cadence up, and if you run out of gears slow down.

Before the ride- Carbo load for at least a week before the event. plenty of pasta, rice, sticky buns and also don't cut out the fat content. On the ride, try to have a good breakfast a couple of hours before the start, and munch on your favourite cereal bar/energy food as you go along. Main point is keep up the fluid intake. Personally I would say this is the most important part of the preparation. I take in at least 1 litre per hour and Comfort stops are not taken that often.

Main point is to go out and enjoy the ride. Don't take the first one too fast, and start slowly to work your way in.

I wish people wouldn't whine about what others want to talk about.

I believe that knowing how others are dealing with medical problems or aging while still getting out on their bicycle is most useful. Yes, this is not a forum about medical issues, however, their relationship or impact on our bicycling ability is very much an appropriate topic for this forum.

I am very motivated when I see or hear about people whoe are either much older than I am, or who have significant injuries or other medical problems, bicycling frequently and over long distances. At 59 years of age, I now expect to be biking well into my 70s. I would have not believed this even five years ago.

No, no, this IS the the over 50 whiner forums, please keep all the ****** comments right here. Don't let them spill out to other forums.....

Now lets hear about your latest colo-rectal exam. Especially any details about your doctors' quirky anal-side humor.....

This forum is for all the old guys over 50, who want to act like it.....

Wow, the asterisks above represent the word "tanker" only spelled with a "w".....I had not known it was such a strong word......

When I returned to bicycling, the fellows at the lbs told me I would have a learning curve, and some of it, the things having to do with my age, they couldn't help me with those because they hadn't lived that long.

I don't mind a learning curve.
I see it as part of the fun.

Some things cost money, though, and I don't mind some timely advice if it will save me money.
Some other things just take an older rider in the wrong direction, health wise.
Who needs that?

I can't say I have learned much from this forum, because I came to it rather late in my learning process.
However, early in my process this forum would have helped.

I sold my car so it wouldn't tempt me.
I now bike about a hundred miles a week, through the rain and the snow, and this spring I hope to get a fixed gear bike and ride it one day a week.

This forum and the experiences of others in my age group encourages me to set goals for myself and to take pleasure in finding ways around the little (and sometimes big) obstacles that aging has placed before me.
Thanks to whoever started this forum.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Gee Ron, you mean like this one?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=63378

Scroll down to post #24......it says...

"I have BAD v veins in my left leg. No pain or discomfort, just looks bad. Talked to a vascular surgeon about it two years ago. He said it would require surgery (stripping the veins) and they could come back in another area of the leg. Told him no thanks. Last month I talked to another doc about laser treatment for them. He said the right leg was a candidate but the left leg would require surgery. Same story, same answer.
So I'm still taking the horse chestnut hoping it will stop the spread and keep the vein size and appearance under control.
If you're interested here is link to a picture (not me - found on the web) of what my left leg kinda looks like. http://www.cosmetic-lasersurg.com/_...varicose1_1.jpg"


By guess who? RonH

People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

:D Ouch!

Am 72 and rode only 5600 miles in 2004. Kwitcherbellyachin and go ride!

**** off ron

go start your own thread

bob

Hey,

Gotta agree. I'll be 58 this year and am still racing - ACA and USCF. Last year I did about 25 races including a 66 miler in the mountains. That one was part of a three event stage race. Did ok. Yeah, aches and pains, but suck it up and enjoy the ride. We have a guy around here who is about 65 or 90 or something like that and he manages time in TT's that would be top 10 in pro 1-2.

If you start doing old people stuff, you'll BE old.

Bikes: Trek 950 frame with Suntour Superbe Pro (100k + miles)
Masi 3V with Campy and Mavic components 75k+ miles)
1986 Stumpjumper (nice leather saddle with springs - don't need no stinkin shocks!)
Schwinn Letour - about 1990 to take toursw on when I quit racing.
All have Brooks saddles and 6 - speed regina fw's - you guy remember those?

Seven Odonata - all dura ace 7800 (new) - Retired the Masi from racing after 2004 season

sun

ps: Whining is a trait of all cyclists of all ages.

Gee Ron, you mean like this one?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=63378

By guess who? RonH

People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....
I wasn't whining or complaining. I was merely stating that I have varicose veins that look bad and commenting on surgery options, meds, and supplements.
Now, WTF is your problem?

Gee Ron, maybe you're not [Moderator Removed: Personal attack]? Do you think? You still haven't gotten the message and can't let it go can you?

It's obvious people [Moderator Removed: Unkind]are that of a whiny old man and you just can't stand it.

[Moderator Removed: Unkind] Ron...

Relax Ron. Use a laxative if necessary, but let it go.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.
If you have "legitimate" back problems - that's allowable. But how many have back problems because of an oversized gut? Get rid of the gut and the back problems will probably go away.
Exercise and weight loss may reduce or eliminate prescribed meds so we can end that discussion.
How do you know you can't ride a road bike or a mountain bike. Bend over and try it.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Well, as my dad always used to say....

Um...

As my dad always used to say...

Shoot... I can't remember.

I'm too old.

Steve

It seems to me that most threads have a natural "life."

The last previous post prior to today's resurrection was:

03-28-05, 09:14 PM

Do folks go searching through old posts in the hope of finding something to respond to?

I don't understand why resurrect after 8 months.

I get so tired of reading posts that discuss aches and pains and surgery complications and all the meds being taken and "I can't this" or "I can't that"! :crash: This is a bicycle discussion forum.
If you're going to ride a bike, there will be soreness and aches and pains in the beginning but it will go away.

Now let's get back to the bike discussions.

Seriously, Ron... what's next? A person can't whine about mechanical problems in the Bike Mechanics forum? Road rash off topic in the Road Bikes forum? What about bad experiences with a LBS? Take it the the BBB! It's not really a biking issue, right? What about all of the discussions that break out here that may not be unique to the over 50 crowd? Should they be allowed? Happy birthday wishes? Out of the question!

C'mon Ron... mellow out. We're over 50. As a result, we have some unique issues that we're faced with and not all pertain to cycling. What's the harm in discussing them? Most, if not all are identified by the subject. Those that are not of issue to you are easily enough passed by.

Take care,

Steve

It seems to me that most threads have a natural "life."

The last previous post prior to today's resurrection was:

03-28-05, 09:14 PM

Do folks go searching through old posts in the hope of finding something to respond to?

I don't understand why resurrect after 8 months.

Drats!... guilty as charged. The topic was highlighted as new, and I just started reading and responding.

Can't tell you how many times I've advised others to read thoroughly before replying :(

Nevermind, Ron :)

Steve

Drats!... guilty as charged. The topic was highlighted as new, and I just started reading and responding.

Can't tell you how many times I've advised others to read thoroughly before replying :(

Nevermind, Ron :)

Steve

You weren't the one doing the resurrecting. You just appropriately responded.

I know this thread is supposed to be dead, but I wasn't a member when it died and wanted to make a comment or two.

First off, what was referred to as whining, I call sharing. As we get older, we face different obstacles. I personally get a lot out of this even if it's something different from what I might be going through at the time. It's how we face what's in our way, not what we face. When I was a kid, I thought 40 was over the hill and 50+ pretty grandparently. I feel proud that we can keep up with the young 'uns, even if we "share" our aches and pains a bit more...heck, we have more of them!!! I feel blessed when my youngest daughter says,
"Dad, you're cool, because you do a lot of stuff."

Secondly, hey, the 50+ers are a more select group. We rock, because we were around when Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Everly Brothers, Sam Cooke rocked. We saw the Beatles and Hendrix and the Stones take flight. We saw the first landing on the moon. We got history.

First off, what was referred to as whining, I call sharing. As we get older, we face different obstacles.



Okay, if it's going to be revived, Vive' the revival. I'm going to take part also.

One thing I have learned is that MOST of us are going to hit some pretty rocky roads along the way.

Those folks who haven't hit them yet tend to think that they are invulnerable and it is because of their life style or their philosophy or their eating habits or whatever that has protected them so far. And they tend to think that those of us who have hit those rocks pretty damned hard have failed to follow whatever magical prescription they have invented and/or practiced, and therefore, it is in some way our fault that we have hit those bumps and they haven't, and they will be protected from those hard bumps because of what they do that they think is different from what we do. (whew, that is one LONG sentence).

I've got news for them.

Their time is coming. Absolutely guaranteed. And when they get there and hit those rocks pretty damned hard, they will want someone to discuss these things with, and if it is bicycling related (as it likely will be) then the discussion may appropriately take place in this group.

And that is GOOD.

It is not the problems we have, but how we face them and either overcome them or adjust to them that is the key. There are some you can not overcome, there are some you can. But how and what you do in those situations is the important factor.

=========================================================================
End of general statement, start of personal example. Those not interested may stop reading here.
=========================================================================
I will just cite briefly my own son, Tim.

On his 21st birthday, almost 20 years ago, Tim was paralyzed from the neck down. No amount of therapy, none of the "miracle" cures that people foisted on us, etc., could get his arms and legs moving again.

Today, without his arms and legs, Tim is a nationally known attorney, fighting for the civil rights of folks with disabilities. He is a Stanford Law School graduate, married to a Yale Law School graduate. A formidable team. (http://www.foxrob.com/attorneys.htm)

On Monday, he and his wife are flying to New York City to work on a settlement on a disability access case with a nationally known company each of you would recognize. As a result of his and his wife's efforts, thousands and thousands of folks with disabilities will be able to access retail stores across the country, get through their aisles in wheel chairs, etc.

When we flew to Baton Rouge after the accident, as Tim was lying there in the constantly rotating bed, his first words to me were, "Well, dad, I guess I have a few more challenges in my life to overcome."

He never looked back.

It is not the problems we will all have in life, it is how we deal with them. That it the great discussion we can have here.