Fifty Plus (50+) - Article: Excess exercise hurts the heart

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2154267/Excess-exercise-hurts-heart-cause-dangerous-long-term-harm-say-scientists.html

Most of us aren't professional cyclists who ride day after day in the mountains. However, many of us do ride for hours at a time.

Even if exercise does hurt the heart, not exercising hurts the soul, which is much much more painful.

I doubt that the typical cyclist who rides 100 miles a week is incurring the kinds of risks described in the article. When in doubt, ask your MD. I'm happy with my 10 days a month of riding, but I like two to three hours of cycling at time, thirty minutes is a warm-up for me.

Don't care. I'm just glad to have lost some 60lb and I don't think I would have done that with a simple 30-60 min a day a few days a week. Riding my bike excessively is far, far from the most dangerous things I've done, and living the longest life possible is not my most important goals in life. Enjoying whatever time I have is my goal and riding my bike is, for now, a major part of that enjoyment.

This report on TV caused my wife to give me a "look" maybe not "the" Look but a questioning one. when they made the statements about people running multipal Marathons she said out loud, what about Centuries? Then they said the same thing about centuries. Even my doctor has raised his eye brows about my zone 4 climbing HR. But I have been through the coffee is bad for you and then coffee is good for you several times. Eat more carbs or eat less carbs, eat meat or don't eat meat all as if one brush will cover all of us in one pass. I have lost between 50 and 60 pounds in 4 years because of cycling and zone 4 or not that has to be better for me than not cycing more than a hour a day. Maybe I can be called a skeptic?

Anything in excess can be bad for you, even exercise, but they are talking about extreme/excessive exercise--not what most of us do here.

Between walking initially(and eating less and eating better) and cycling, I'm 106 lbs less than I was in Sept. '10. The exercise and weight loss has improved my health greatly.

Interesting. In my youth I used to do a lot of long and strenuous cycling, albeit not competitive, so it may not be coincidence that I have some cardiomyopathy and a-fib. The a-fib seems to have been fixed by an ablation last November and the myopathy doesn't bother me at all. Keep riding!

This is a fascinating article that I noticed in my early hours coffee and wake up session. I went to the Mayo Clinic Proceedings to pull the full article, but as it's in "pre-publication" status, I had to pony up $31 for it. I'll just wait until they formally publish it and try to get it for free. The author is well-respected and the results are provocative, and I'm sure they will be hashing this out for years to come.

I've always been uneasy about the "central governor theory", in that, if such a mechanism exists, it's there to keep us from killing ourselves, and we exceed it at great peril.

Those who feel "we can be anything we want if we try hard enough" are just wrong, IMNSHO.

I've never run with a heart rate monitor or anything like that, but I do feel a certain internal "governor" when riding, especially riding fast with others. I can do it for a while, but there comes a point where it's just time to back off. I've heard that a key element of bicycle racing is dealing with the pain of exertion. I guess when I feel that pain beyond a certain threshold, I back off. I suspect the harm comes from habitually pushing beyond that point.

The article makes sense, to me, and also correlates to the tragic death in the link below.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_20575703/autopsy-micah-true-boulder-ultrarunner-died-heart-disease (http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_20575703/autopsy-micah-true-boulder-ultrarunner-died-heart-disease)


Jack LaLanne had it right; a healthy life balances nutrition and exercise.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/what-should-we-learn-from_b_815943.html

I only wish I could live up to Jack's example. I love a good burger to ever eat healthy enough.

In other news, scientists have discovered that breathing can be harmful to your health...

1999 and I was intraining for my long hard ride. One weekend and we did a 40 mile offroad and I then did an extra 20 on the road complete with knobblies and a few lbs of Mud on the bike. Next weekend and a metric on the road. My co-rider- who was fit and was also intraining for the ride- asked me to take a couple of MPH out after 55 miles and just before the Long hill. next weekend and a 65 mile out and back on the last part of the hard ride. Went out hard- stopped for lunch and leisurely cruise back taking in the 3 hardest hills of the 100 mile route. Found we still had a bit of time on our hands so suggested we do one last hill. My co-rider groaned but did it with me.

That was on a Sunday- Wednesday going into work and I got indigestion. 1 hour later I was in the cardiac unit with blocked arteries. Angiogram and the Doc doing it asked if it was cycling or swimming? "Pardon"--he said that the way my Aorta was so clear- it was either swimming or Cycling as those are the two sports he knew of that would keep it that clear. My heart was pumping so strong that it forced the blood through the blocked arteries and saved my life.

So Like Mobile- Until I die of it- I won't believe it.

In other news, scientists have discovered that breathing can be harmful to your health...
Depends what you're breathing ;)

We all gotta go sometime. I'll take the chances on maintaining my ability to stay active as long as possible.

The Buddhists had it right; All things in moderation. In excess, even things that are required to keep on living, like oxygen and water, can actually kill you. In fact, I seem to remember that there have been several deaths in Fraternities from excessive water consumption during hazing.

Don't care. I'm just glad to have lost some 60lb and I don't think I would have done that with a simple 30-60 min a day a few days a week. Riding my bike excessively is far, far from the most dangerous things I've done, and living the longest life possible is not my most important goals in life. Enjoying whatever time I have is my goal and riding my bike is, for now, a major part of that enjoyment.

I agree almost 100% I do not have the time to ride 60 minutes per day. I have lost 10 pounds in a month, I realize that is not alot but it is weight loss and I am not in any hurry to get down to 170 to 175 from my current weight of 183. However, I do agree that bicycling is part of my enjoyment of a good life. It makes me happy and it just has to be healthy for me.

Common sense, pay attention to what your body tells you, and get regular physicals... I had a heart stress test and sonogram done a few years back when I was horribly out of shape, and the doctor said I had a really strong heart. I used to run long distance, and hiked whenever I could. Maybe not as out of shape as I thought.... but cycling gave me an even better heart and some great gams as a bonus.

The article makes sense, to me, and also correlates to the tragic death in the link below.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_20575703/autopsy-micah-true-boulder-ultrarunner-died-heart-disease (http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_20575703/autopsy-micah-true-boulder-ultrarunner-died-heart-disease)


Jack LaLanne had it right; a healthy life balances nutrition and exercise.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/what-should-we-learn-from_b_815943.html

I only wish I could live up to Jack's example. I love a good burger to ever eat healthy enough.


That Micah True story scared the poo poo out of me. I had some of his prodromal symptoms, which sent me to the cardiologist a month ago. Echo stress test said good muscle, bad valve. Still not sure how much I should be riding. Maybe I'll just go home and have a beer.

From the article and a similar one at Harvard Health Blog it sounds like regular marathons are potentially bad. I guess double centuries and back to back centuries might also qualify -- especially if you push the pace throughout. But 100 - 150 miles a week over several days doesn't sound like it qualifies for this caution.

In other news, scientists have discovered that breathing can be harmful to your health...

It is my understanding that everyone who breathes dies.

There is a scientific study, statistically proven, that all bank robbers, swindlers and other criminals drank milk as infants. Therefore, milk causes crime. Yeah, right. You don't think statistics can lie, do ya?

I'll think about this while I am riding 8+ hours in the mountains this Saturday.

In our society, too little exercise is a far more pervasive problem than too much.

Just live you life and ignore this kind of nonsense. I'll lump this in the same file (13) as the new reports that say too little salt is bad you. "No one gets out alive".

It is my understanding that everyone who breathes dies.
Life had been found to be a sexually transmitted disease and is in all cases fatal! :p

It is my understanding that everyone who breathes dies.

That does it. I'm quitting.




Tomorrow.

Dr O’Keefe said lifelong vigorous exercisers generally have lower death and disability rates compared with non-exercisers, but it was becoming important to detect intense exercisers whose regime might put them at risk...

I seriously doubt that any of us in the 50+ forum is cycling long enough, and at such a high intensity, as to be suffering the physical damage described in this study.

Having said that, I intend to keep training with the intent to complete a century ride this fall.
I note that during my recent first metric century, I played it conservative and formally stopped three times (two bathroom breaks and a food stop) and informally several more when I got lost. And I was not riding anywhere near "race" pace, just nice and steady and enjoying the ride.

I do wonder if those participating in randonneuring are putting themselves at risk, although from what I understand, randonneuring events are not races.

I often wonder if I'm doing any damage when my HR reaches near-max during a steep climb, and we have a few climbs like that on our regular mid-week rides. It recovers very quickly, 30+ beats in 20-30 seconds, but the rate is disconcerting. Saturday rides are long endurance rides and if the day turns hot and I'm hurrying to catch up with the group, my heart rate rises fast. And then there's the spin class... :eek:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
T Roosevelt


Anything worth doing is worth overdoing- Racer Ex

When I was young (a lot younger), I ran competitively. During an eight year period I ran 22-marathons, 4- 50 km races, and 1- 50 miler. We would train hard peaking at about 70 miles a week, 2 or three times a year. I would start getting stress injuries if I exceeded the 70 mile threshold so I'd supplement with swimming, weight work and cycling. We would run at least one 20+ mile run weekly. One training run that I'd do about once a month, when daylight permitted, was to run the 25 miles home from work in the evening, and ride my bike back to work the next day. I continued to run recreationally for fitness, and ran my age annually until an accident stopped me at 49 years old. Luckily, it got me back full time on my bike. My point is that it does happen, but it takes a lot of work to do damage. Two other distance runners in the club and I have had heart rhythm problems. That is more than just a coincidence. I've seen other studies that have come to the same conclusion. It is discouraging to think that doing something we thought was good for us would come back to haunt us later in life.

Ironically, I started out bike racing, and found out I was a better runner than a biker. The results would probably been about the same, mediocre athlete with heart rhythm problems:)

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
T Roosevelt

What does T. Roosevelt have to do with any of this? He was a politician. Politicians will say anything that sounds good.

Tell me that he had a degree in exercise physiology or cardiac electrophysiology and then I'll think whatever he said might be even vaguely relevant to the ongoing discussion.

How many think salt is bad for you? And how long has this idea been around and supported by government? Well, think again. Here is an article from the NYT that puts a different light on salt. Which one is right? You make the call!

Salt, we misjudged you. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

"WHY have we been told that salt is so deadly? Well, the advice has always sounded reasonable. It has what nutritionists like to call “biological plausibility.” Eat more salt and your body retains water to maintain a stable concentration of sodium in your blood. This is why eating salty food tends to make us thirsty: we drink more; we retain water. The result can be a temporary increase in blood pressure, which will persist until our kidneys eliminate both salt and water."

Depends what you're breathing ;)

I dunno, breathe pure air for long enough and you'll still die.

[/RIGHT]
What does T. Roosevelt have to do with any of this? He was a politician. Politicians will say anything that sounds good.

Tell me that he had a degree in exercise physiology or cardiac electrophysiology and then I'll think whatever he said might be even vaguely relevant to the ongoing discussion.

When it comes to living life I find TR to be much more of an ispiration than a hand wringing cardiac electrophysiologist so I'd say it's relevant. Then again, my goal in life is to live it not survive it.

[/RIGHT]
What does T. Roosevelt have to do with any of this? He was a politician. Politicians will say anything that sounds good.

Tell me that he had a degree in exercise physiology or cardiac electrophysiology and then I'll think whatever he said might be even vaguely relevant to the ongoing discussion.

The message is quite clear.

Coincidentally, this morning I read a line by Mike Ferrintino in "Bike"; "Riding until I turned myself inside-out was the only way I could get tired enough to not be a self destructive ass hole."

When it comes to living life I find TR to be much more of an ispiration than a hand wringing cardiac electrophysiologist so I'd say it's relevant. Then again, my goal in life is to live it not survive it.

Amen to that! Teddy Roosevelt had bigger testacles than most prominent men of his generation.

Everyones got to go some time, and when you never know so if you like riding ride!
Everyones different nothing or no one can guarantee your health.
Some of the healthiest people or at least we thought die from heart attacks early and some who seemed to live the life smoking and drinking live to be ripe old ages.
Thats life live it to the fullest we are only here once!

All that I could find on the study were their conclusions and a bit on the methodology. It seems as if they took competitive professional aerobic atheletes as their test group. They did not seem to mention any control group. Also given the activities of elite atheletes, some things or a combination of things could have produced the effect. For example, elite aerobic atheletes tend to be really skinny. Maybe being skinny and exercising at the highest exertion levels for extended periods of time can cause the body to catabolise heart muscle. That is just a guess by the way. But in saying this, I would think that the study's results have to be considered tentative.

The problem I find with the study is that they do not give a mechanism. They do not have any real notion of how much aerobic exercise and at what intensity is dangerous. They did seem to suggest that low intensity aerobic activity is fine.

Even in their study group, they had only a relatively small percentage of problems (20% I think). I would think that recreational atheletes and even low level competitive atheletes would be pretty safe. I do centuries several times a year (less than I would like).

Another thing is the study was essentially a correlation. Inferring causality from a correlation can sometimes be right but it can just as often be wrong. I knew a distinguished professor who said that every medical study ever performed proved what it set out to prove. Obviously, this scientist had a less than exalted opinion of medical researchers.

So what to take from it? It makes sense to not ride as hard as one can for long rides and not to do extended hard rides day after day. I would think that if you ride most of the time at moderate intensity and only ride hard for short intervals, you are probably going to be OK.

In other news, scientists have discovered that breathing can be harmful to your health...

+ this pretty much sums it up. My doc is totally o.k with my ~100 mi/week. Articles come out like this where a factoid, that may or may not be good science, is taken way out of context, and then sensationalized.

Also 67% of all statistics quoted on the internet are 95% B.S. :p

This is a fascinating article that I noticed in my early hours coffee and wake up session. I went to the Mayo Clinic Proceedings to pull the full article, but as it's in "pre-publication" status, I had to pony up $31 for it. I'll just wait until they formally publish it and try to get it for free. It's available here for free: http://cardionutrition.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/too-much-exercise-can-be-a-bad-thing.pdf

As one would expect, the actual article isn't nearly as sensational or conclusive as the headlines.

It's available here for free: http://cardionutrition.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/too-much-exercise-can-be-a-bad-thing.pdf

As one would expect, the actual article isn't nearly as sensational or conclusive as the headlines.

Cool! Thanks. I'm glad I didn't spend $31 for it.

@PatW - exactly. As I said, people are going to be hashing this out for years.

@everyone else - yeah, yeah, I read Theodore Rex, too. He was a great man and a brilliant leader. I just don't want him as my cardiologist :p

The abstract of the report states that lifelong vigorous exercisers tend to have low mortality rates and high functional capacity. So what this amounts to is a statement that for most people, vigorous exercise is beneficial. But for some people, prolonged exercise at high (but unspecified) intensity may cause problems.

Anyone surprised?

Another article about more of a good thing not necessarily being more better.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/moderation-as-the-sweet-spot-for-exercise/?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

Yen, I appreciate the heads up.

This section of the article is the one about which I'm thinking.

"But for some individuals, over months and years of repetitive injury, this process can lead to the development of patchy scarring of certain areas of the heart, and abnormal heart rhythms.
In one study, approximately 12 per cent of apparently healthy marathon runners showed evidence for patchy myocardial scarring..."

Unless they can tell us what makes the 12 percent more likely to have the scarring, I think I’ll gamble on being part of the 88% that it doesn’t impact on in the same manner. Like many things, I am, however, open to a revision in my thinking.

There are a lot of bad ways to die. Dropping dead of a heart attack while excercising isn't one of them.

Article: Excess exercise hurts the heart
BS... Use it or loose it

There are a lot of bad ways to die. Dropping dead of a heart attack while excercising isn't one of them.

+1 I've seen family and friends fade away, hooked up to machines and suffering other such indignities. Every time some one says I should really try the 2 Lb Monster Chili Cheese Bacon Burger, because "you gotta live a little", I shake my head.

Another article about more of a good thing not necessarily being more better.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/moderation-as-the-sweet-spot-for-exercise/?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

That was another good article.

We could learn something from the horse trainers down the road. A racehorse can be trained to ignore the "central governor" and, when the "bleed" they are really going into high output cardiac failure. That's why routine Lasix use is so controversial in that industry.

These horses need to be read Teddy Roosevelt quotes. They probably wouldn't need Lasix ;)

I wonder if sometimes we're not putting ourselves into right heart failure with transient pulmonary hypertension. Maybe someone else will chime in.

I'm glad to hear that moderate exercise has as much benefit as more extreme exercise.

Some months I'm unable to ride as often, or as long or as hard as I would like. It's important to remember that in less than an hour a person can get substantial health benefits.

This motivates me to go out for a 15 mile ride without any guilt over the lack of challenge.

Gain without extreme pain.

In the last two months we have received a new message from the news media with their take on what the medical profession is thinking. It breaks down to, exercise less and eat more chocolate. As Jay Leno said the other night, "Think how easy this makes new years resolutions. I'll sit on the sofa more and eat more chocolate.":lol:
What happens when we see these raw studies is jump to conclusions that fit some of our preconceived ideas. But it also paints too many with a far too big brush. :innocent: