Fifty Plus (50+) - Internet Speed Inflation??

I'm just curious. I'm in my early 50s, as is a longtime friend of mine. Both HS athletes and both kept fit all our lives. For years we have both worked out, are trim and stay in shape. He's a HARD rider and I ride hard for fitness. He lives in MN and commutes (weather permitting) often, 20 mile round trip and I ride about 12 miles daily for fitness. MN has a huge bike community and he is RARELY passed (riding alone on his mountain bike no less) at average speeds of 17 mph or so. He passes the vast majority of riders he sees (and he sees a lot) including almost all folks on higher end road bikes. I ride (alone mostly) on a designated bike road near Dallas, and am RARELY passed, but pass most folks I see, including folks on road bikes, at my average speeds of 17-18 mph plus (average for the whole ride) on my Surly Crosscheck.

For all this, all over the internet, it appears people are routinely riding 20-25 mph for LONG distances. Where are these folks? A good friend of mine, age 30, just completed an Ironman in Houston. He is far and away the fastest rider I know or have seen - in amazing shape, routinely rides centuries on weekends and his avg. speed for the 112 mile riding portion of the Ironman was 21.75 mph.

What gives? Are people just reporting the fast speeds they ride when with the wind on flat ground or am I just really slow even though I think I am in good shape? Overall usually get in a couple thousand miles per year now.

LOL.

Dont believe much of what you read on the internet, it's full of people who are unable to distinguish between reality and their dreams of winning the TdF.

I'm 57. I ride about five times your annual mileage. It is very unusual for me to cover more than twenty miles in an hour. Mostly, on a training ride with a decent amount of climbing, I might ride at 15-16mph. I don't think I'm slow. Not in the real world, anyway.

Perhaps you need to test a hypothesis? Ask NOS88 about that.

You are never passed by anyone if you don't ride a bike :)

On the internet, especially on these forums, it is required, ;-) to add 5 mph to your actual speed. It's the internet, it must be true.

"You can't always believe everything you read on the internet" ​Abraham Lincoln :innocent:

I'm much slower in person.:(

"You can't always believe everything you read on the internet" ​Abraham Lincoln :innocent:
...Vampire Hunter.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1611224/

There is a lot of embellishment on the internet. But with that said, there are some very fast riders out there that can do a century in less than 5 hours, I am not one - got close a few years back when I was drafting a paceline machine on a pancake flat century, they spit me out after about 60 miles. I would suggest you find a bike club in your area, ride with the A group and then if you can keep your tongue out of your spokes you can post what ever speed you like. I have never been able to keep up with that group in our area - they are aliens.

When it comes to cycling, you can't trust anyone about anything, except me.

A pointless, story, but what the hey. I was cycling along a road when I was overtaken by a roadie. He was a nice chap and we rode together for maybe ten miles or so. He said it was his slow and easy riding day. He didn't have any trouble overtaking me, so I believed him.

When I got home I downloaded my Garmin to Strava. Strava gave me an "extreme" score because I had pegged out my heart rate for so long.

The problem was I wasn't wearing a heart rate monitor. My Garmin had picked the other guy as he was pegging his heart rate out on his slow and easy ride. We were roughly the same age, BTW. The liar.

For what it's worth:
The DC Randonneurs website has a page (http://dcrand.org/dcr/randostats.php) that says that less than 1% of all official RUSA 200km brevet finishers finish under 7 hours = which is 17.8mph or less.
http://dcrand.org/dcr/randoinfo/A9020/graph1.png

I assume that the fast riders can go faster over shorter distances, but being human, woould eventually slow down.

So, over what distance are you figuring that people might be inflating their reported speeds or comparing your own speed to? It could be an apples and oranges thing - he's reported a half mile distance and you're thinking over 20 miles....

Other considerations, drafting or not, faired or not, recumbent or DF, flat terrain or hilly... and on and on.... Like I said, apples and oranges, maybe?????

Then again, your Ironman friend would be in the 1% of the RUSA finishers time-wise. Can you keep up with him riding an "equal" bike?

the problem was i wasn't wearing a heart rate monitor. My garmin had picked the other guy as he was pegging his heart rate out on his slow and easy ride. We were roughly the same age, btw. The liar.

rotflmao!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Okay, I challenge anybody out there to a 'virtual' race. I'll spot you 4 mph and still beat you by 1.

Drmweaver2's RUSA 200km brevet finishers chart is more in line with my thinking. As for distance, I'm assuming moderate distances of 10-20 miles. I do understand Class A rider peleton's will go very fast indeed, both because the riders are almost universally young and exceptionally experienced, fit riders. further, they have the advantage of riding effectively and efficiently in a peleton. The riding results of folks like Chasm54 and Cyclinfool are both believable and incredibly impressive. Pretty rare overall as well - skilled enthusiasts. On the flatter parts of my ride (if the wind is with me) I can sometimes go at 22-25 mph for a couple miles, on a great day, but always end up heading back into the wind and killing my giddy (temporary) average speed gains.

"84.7% of internet statistics are made up on the spot" ​ Hedy Lamarr :p

There is an oft quoted saying among old sports car drivers: "The older we get, the faster we were!" ;)

Go to Strava and see what kind of numbers people are putting up.

I just checked 10 random rides in the 50+ club section of strava. Not one was over 16.6 average mph and a couple were below 12.

When I got home I downloaded my Garmin to Strava. Strava gave me an "extreme" score because I had pegged out my heart rate for so long.

The problem was I wasn't wearing a heart rate monitor. My Garmin had picked the other guy as he was pegging his heart rate out on his slow and easy ride. We were roughly the same age, BTW. The liar.

So what was his max heart rate? He could have been no where near his max. My max HR is scary high, when I have done a stress test they won't even let me get above Z2.

I don't know. I mean there's definitely internet embellishment, but even so, it depends a lot on the kinds of cyclists you're encountering. On the trail here, I pass lots of riders when I'm "strolling" at 15-16, but I guarantee you none of them are the kind of riders who are serious enough to post on a cycling message board. I'd guess that the same applies in your area.

On the other hand, at the twice-weekly shop rides I frequent, I ride with the second-slowest group, and when I can stay with them, my average on those rides is in the 18-19 mph range (non-embellished numbers, I promise you). The 3 faster groups average 21 to 25+ (most of them are racers). Granted, those are group rides and they include drafting. Solo rides are something else, and I can manage in the 17s for up to 50 miles (with a couple of rest stops), but I don't think I'm particularly fast by any means. On those occasions when I'm alone on the road and encounter one of the faster riders from the club who is also riding solo, they're always riding at speeds I can't even hope to keep up with.

So maybe it's exaggeration. Maybe it's conditions. Maybe it's the people in your area.

Your Ironman friend first swam for an hour, then had to run a marathon after his ride. I bet he's significantly faster when he's just going for a ride.

I think a lot of people on this site are using a different definition of "average"... one that doesn't count stop lights or climbs, just the speed they see on the bike computer when they are cruising along on flat ground. In a paceline.

I'm wondering if most of those riders have the same or similar syndrome that fishermen have, you know the one that kicks in when they are describing the last fish they caught. :innocent::roflmao2::

I just checked 10 random rides in the 50+ club section of strava. Not one was over 16.6 average mph and a couple were below 12.

That is a true test. And for this forum it is all Dudelsack's fault. However what are the segment speeds? What are the KOM speeds? And do we have the garmin speeds of the MTB riders dropping cat3 rodies available, another internet urban legend like touring bikes with paniers passing a pace line, even dropping the local weekend club riders? My last century turned in a 16 mph average. Our A group, not my group by the way, turned in a five hour century. I did a windy 40 with some climbing and was lucky to get 13.5 or 14. So yes some do inflate their average I guess. We had a guy that used to ride with us that never set his computer till we were in a pace line and out of town where we would have at least a ten mile run with no stop lights. His averages are always close to 19 or 20. So sites like Strava can answer a lot of the questions some have. And we can continue to look for the fast MTB and Touring bike rider that hunts down and passes evey highend road bike they see, plus search them for any Snipe thay may have captured while training for the bandini Olympics.

That is a true test. And for this forum it is all Dudelsack's fault.
Hey, don't hate the player, hate the game :innocent:

I just checked 10 random rides in the 50+ club section of strava. Not one was over 16.6 average mph and a couple were below 12.

I don't use Strava. I'd say terrain makes a huge difference, and also, well, there are stronger riders out there.

"You can't always believe everything you read on the internet" ​Abraham Lincoln :innocent:
:lol::lol: :lol:

There are a lot of fast riders out there but I'm not one of them. I reallt think we don't get as much embellishment in this forum. We're mostly old enough to know that when we try and decieve others we really are just fooling ourselves.

I know the exaggeration happens all the time. What I cannot figure out is besides trying to impress people you will most likely never meet what this accomplishes. In our sport if you do meet up with others these false claims are going to bite you in the ass:notamused:. You will get dropped like a stone and look like an idiot to boot:mad:. I admit a fast ride for me is an average of 15 mph. According to my computer I have hit 18 mph a few times but whoopee, so I had a tail wind or our pancake terrain had a false flat:roflmao2:. What ye sow so shall ye reap, Karma will win out etc.

Bill

I know the exaggeration happens all the time. What I cannot figure out is besides trying to impress people you will most likely never meet what this accomplishes. In our sport if you do meet up with others these false claims are going to bite you in the ass:notamused:. You will get dropped like a stone and look like an idiot to boot:mad:. I admit a fast ride for me is an average of 15 mph. According to my computer I have hit 18 mph a few times but whoopee, so I had a tail wind or our pancake terrain had a false flat:roflmao2:. What ye sow so shall ye reap, Karma will win out etc.

Bill

Good point. I'd much rather be a sandbagger.

There are plenty of club rides around here and if you're going to ride with an A group, you'd better plan on riding at 20 MPH average, minimum. Some of the clubs have 23MPH + groups. Last year, at the MS 150, I rode with a 20MPH average speed group for 72 miles......
then crawled in the last 28.
Some of the folks in these fast groups are in their 50's, a few are card carrying medicare recipients, i.e. over 65. Yup it can be done.

Hey, don't hate the player, hate the game :innocent:

But you did make us show our cards so to speak. I for one have enjoyed learning more about the real life of some of the people we talk to in these forums. And some of you impress me a lot.

Uh, so you're in your 50s and just now figuring out you can't believe forum postings on the internet?

I am slow and make no bones about it. I rarely get above 18mph on the flat and hills are taken slow. I occasionally get new riders come out with me and I warn them I am slow and they have to admit---I am slow. But with the group I ride with we occasionally do a metric. From the start most of the others disappear into the distance very quickly. I have them back in sight by 10 miles and by 20 we are all riding together. At around 30 I find myself in the lead and by 40 I am definitely towing some of them. 45 to 50 miles we take a break to let the group reform and from then on we ride individually. I do a metric in around 4 hours but some of those "Fit" riders take a long time for the last 1/4 of the ride.

So no internet B.S for me. I am slow and I know it----But there are some that are slower than me. Just wish I could break 15mph average on a 20 to 30 miler.

You start the computer for time and distance when you start the ride and stop it at the finish. Averages for any ride are based on elapsed riding time.

Here are a few things riders do:

1. Take snapshots of their ride when their average speed is what they say when their overall average is much lower.

2. Fail to change the setting on their computers from km/h to mph (and yes, it does happen as one poster recently admitted on another thread).

3. Take the average reading from their computer for the ride, when the computer stops time when the bike stops moving. Related to this, it takes two or three seconds for the computer to get up to speed again after stopping. Do that 20 or 30 times on a ride and you've saved up to 60 seconds.

4. Have a burning desire to fit in with others who may or may not be averaging the speed they quote.

5. Always ride within the peloton on a group ride and never take a pull. They are always riding easy, being dragged along by the guys actually doing the work.

6. Ride on the flats all the time and often with a tailwind.

7. Are just plain liars.

There definitely are guys who can average the fast speeds. In the over-50 groups, they usually have been through the mill as racers, are very lean, and ride often. They know how to pace themselves, know the hydration and nutrition drills, and have superb roadcraft.

If you want to use averages as a guide to fitness, you should do a series of time trials of between 8 and 10 miles, on a flat route, in as close to identical conditions on a bike as close as identical each time, and at the hardest you can ride. But then, of course, unless your peers do the same route in the same conditions, the result is irrelevant, except as a measure of your fitness and speed.

And that's the crux of the whole thing... in the end, averages are comparatively meaningless because there are so many variables in ride conditions.

One other thought. The exaggeration has a very negative impact on some people who really ought to be enjoying their cycling. In the Clydesdales/Athenas forum recently there was a thread in which people were bemoaning how slow they were, and asking why they couldn't get their average speed up towards 20mph. Some of them were quite discouraged. They read absurd claims about average speeds and felt, as relatively new cyclists some of whom weigh 300lbs, that if they couldn't ride at >18mph they must be doing something wrong.

I just finished a tour with maybe thirty pounds of gear on an admittedly heavy bike. That stops one pretty effectively on the hills. I was averaging around 11-12 mph overall, and not dawdling. If I were 100lbs overweight I'd be proud to be able to get up any hills at all, let alone average more than 15mph for a two-hour ride.

One other thought. The exaggeration has a very negative impact on some people who really ought to be enjoying their cycling. In the Clydesdales/Athenas forum recently there was a thread in which people were bemoaning how slow they were, and asking why they couldn't get their average speed up towards 20mph. Some of them were quite discouraged. They read absurd claims about average speeds and felt, as relatively new cyclists some of whom weigh 300lbs, that if they couldn't ride at >18mph they must be doing something wrong.

I thoroughly agree.

People who inflate their numbers, are just insecure.

Oh, and the same thing happens with percentage inclines on hills.

I'm slow. I'm not ashamed of it. It's just a fact. One of the reasons I'm slow is that I like to ride a lot and I've found the faster I ride the less often can I ride. I dream of being mediocre.

OMG, I hit 18 mph the other night and thought it was way too fast (note to self, there probably will be a day that that speed won't scare me) but that was only because I was going down a slight decline. Probably scared me because I was out earlier than usual, the street had many patches which makes it rougher, and there was actually traffic. OK, my logical mind at work here. The more I ride, there is an increase in my averages. I thought I was doing great at 8.8 - 10 mph on flats and slight inclines. Guess I'm just a slow rider.

My sense of it is that most of the people in this forum are beyond the need to embellish their accomplishments. And it's virtually impossible to compare yourself to other riders here because there are so many variables on any ride. Yesterday my gf and I did a fundraiser ride for our club in northeastern CT. She is 58 and I am 66 next week. The ride was 38 mi. with 2550 ft. of climbing. I have no idea if 2550 ft is a lot for that distance or nothing to write home about. We were not stressing ourselves with the pace but we were not just putting along either. On the one big hill we were around 6-7 mph and on our best flats we were usually in the mid-20's. Overall we average 15 mph for the ride and had a great time. And that's the truth.

Oh, I forgot. There was that one stretch were we ran into Bradley Wiggins but we cranked it up and dropped him.

If I were 100lbs overweight I'd be proud to be able to get up any hills at all, let alone average more than 15mph for a two-hour ride.

Another good point. Last year I was on a ride with 4 other guys. They were all at least 10 yrs. younger than me. I was fine until we hit any inclines. Then I would gradually fall behind. The guy who was closest to me in age is around 55 and an ex track racer. I've known this guy for years and he's a very nice guy who is not out to crush anyone on a ride. I started asking his advice about riding hills and he was giving me all the advice you read in books and on the internet. I kept thinking "...but I do all that stuff." Then I asked him how much he weighed. I was stunned when he said "150 lbs." He just doesn't look that lean. And there I was riding at close to 195 lbs and staying relatively close to him. I felt better about myself and determined to get my weight down to see just how good I can be.

There are plenty of club rides around here and if you're going to ride with an A group, you'd better plan on riding at 20 MPH average, minimum. Some of the clubs have 23MPH + groups. Last year, at the MS 150, I rode with a 20MPH average speed group for 72 miles......
then crawled in the last 28.
Some of the folks in these fast groups are in their 50's, a few are card carrying medicare recipients, i.e. over 65. Yup it can be done.

I agree. Find a club and "ride up" as often as you can. Get dropped. Do wind sprint intervals. Ride hard with a purpose 3 - 5 days a week. You will improve, but it takes time. It's work. I get up at 4:30am or earlier 2 or 3 days a week to improve. I enjoy it.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with riding for fun and not wanting to "work hard" to improve. In that case, take it from Stepfam and others who eschew worrying about the speed and just ENJOY THE RIDE!

That's the point, isn't it?

I agree. Find a club and "ride up" as often as you can. Get dropped. Do wind sprint intervals. Ride hard with a purpose 3 - 5 days a week. You will improve, but it takes time. It's work. I get up at 4:30am or earlier 2 or 3 days a week to improve. I enjoy it.

Aye, there's the rub.

Strava is the one of those places where it's hard to dodge the truth, although people have accused others of using motor power to fudge some of the KOMs.

There are riders in my area who routinely pull speeds at least 50% faster that I do over the same roads, and sustain it at distances that I can't do. I follow them and note that they train six days a week and often get up for group! rides at 0430, when there is no traffic and they don't sweat little old farts camped out at stop signs yelling at cyclists who don't come to full foot down stops.

At my age I'm not sure I could tolerate that kind of training, but even if I could, it seems too much like work to me, and I'm pretty lazy. If there wasn't an element of joy in cycling I'd be too lazy to do it at all.

Its much easier to embellish, exaggerate, and flat out prevaricate. I assume people here realize they're not really scrambling military jets because my average speed is so high :lol:

There are plenty of club rides around here and if you're going to ride with an A group, you'd better plan on riding at 20 MPH average, minimum. Some of the clubs have 23MPH + groups. Last year, at the MS 150, I rode with a 20MPH average speed group for 72 miles......
then crawled in the last 28.
Some of the folks in these fast groups are in their 50's, a few are card carrying medicare recipients, i.e. over 65. Yup it can be done.

Yes, of course it can be done. I can do it. Sitting in a group, I can hold a wheel at more than 20mph. I daresay you can, too. But quoting figures from group rides, where everyone is drafting most of the time, is a big part of the problem. Ask the guys from the fast group to average over 20mph riding solo. That's a very different story.

Whenever I'm passed it is always by someone going faster than I am.

I'm going to get one of those fancy computers where I can set the minimum speed below which it doesn't count toward the average. Then I'll set the minimum to 20mph.

The concept of comparing my times and/or distances to other riders has become a foreign one to me. The days of my worrying about how fast others are have mercifully passed. There will always be someone faster, stronger, with more endurance, etc. But, there will never be another person living my life, in my body, riding my bikes, on my routes, and with my goals (none of which have to do with speed). So, “inflation” of speeds may exist, but I know when I’ve worked hard and when I haven’t regardless of what my computer says.

The problem was I wasn't wearing a heart rate monitor. My Garmin had picked the other guy as he was pegging his heart rate out on his slow and easy ride. We were roughly the same age, BTW. The liar.

My heart rarely goes above 150bpm and I have a friend who can do the same climb at 185bpm. This guy can drop me on any hill and I'd venture to say his hr will be quite a bit higher than mine when just cruising along.

I agree. Find a club and "ride up" as often as you can. Get dropped. Do wind sprint intervals. Ride hard with a purpose 3 - 5 days a week. You will improve, but it takes time. It's work. I get up at 4:30am or earlier 2 or 3 days a week to improve. I enjoy it.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with riding for fun and not wanting to "work hard" to improve. In that case, take it from Stepfam and others who eschew worrying about the speed and just ENJOY THE RIDE!

That's the point, isn't it?

I too get up at 5AM 2 times a week (during the work week) to ride 18 miles as hard as I can. I do this early in the year when the Ice is gone off the roads and late into the fall until the ice returns. Some mornings the sun doesn't come up until we are just about done, we are wearing two or three layers to stay warm. These are not fun rides, this is like going to the gym. However these rides make the club rides and the distance rides fun because I am not getting killed and dropped at every hill, struggling to keep up with the group. I can cruise along with the others, have a conversation and arrive at the end not wasted for the rest of the day.

3. Take the average reading from their computer for the ride, when the computer stops time when the bike stops moving. Related to this, it takes two or three seconds for the computer to get up to speed again after stopping. Do that 20 or 30 times on a ride and you've saved up to 60 seconds.

I would say that this method is not unfair on most rides.

1. Sixty seconds off of a ride of 20 to 30 miles is not more than a few tenths of a mph. It is not the difference between 15 and 18 mph. To really have this make a significant difference one would have to pretty much do sprints separated by long periods of rest sitting by the side of the road.

2. For urban cyclists, having to stop for traffic signals and such can ruin the measurement of how much and what level of exercise one is getting. For my own records the difference of .2-.4 mph can tell me about the quality of the ride but it does not mean much in terms of bragging rights.

3. On rural rides I don't generally take breaks except maybe on long rides and my water bottle needs refilling.

All of that said, I don't generally publish my averages. They are for my own use and for measuring myself against my only meaningful yardstick. Myself! If I do report averages it is not a mph figure but the fact that I raised my average or have been slacking off lately.

I never doubt that a 20mph+ average can be held by one of us. We have a lot of really fit members here with several pretty dog gone good racers like Hermes, AZtallRdr, Ex Racer, Velodiva, Allegheny Jet, etc., it is just the fact that people think they have to exaggerate about this. I knew this happened from all my years as a mod on a dirt bike site and the "Bench Racing" done anytime a bunch of riders get together. What does lying about an accomplishment get you? I am sure the insecurity comes into play but what do you gain when you get found out? As Dudelsack said, Strava and other ride with GPS sites can cure this or at least stop some from doing it. I am just at a loss to understand the mindset.

I am too much like Stapfam, I admit I am slow, I am not as fit as I could be or as some others are. Play the Hand You are Dealt and just enjoy all there is about your life.

End rant, I really want to go riding today.

Bill

I think strava can sort this out best.

As terrain and conditions can have a huge impact making it hard to say that which claims are embellished while I suspect some are

I was stoked to get in the top 25 (first page) on Strava on a part of my training ride that is meaningful to me so I know I am not one of the fastest out there http://app.strava.com/rides/9389486

I had a few things going for me. One I took it is on easy the first part of my ride as I was going for a PR. Two I had a tailwind. Three I got lucky on a light and was able to keep my momentum.

So should I use 18 as my average speed for this section? For me no it is my best speed so far my average speed is about 16 on this portion.

And for honesty sake I am not 50+ but I will be next year.

What is important to me is not others claims but my own fitness and accomplishments. In my area there is a large community of elite cyclist's of my age and older that can drop me like a rock off a cliff.

I am trying to close the gap as it is fun.

I never doubt that a 20mph+ average can be held by one of us. We have a lot of really fit members here with several pretty dog gone good racers like Hermes, AZtallRdr, Ex Racer, Velodiva, Allegheny Jet, etc., it is just the fact that people think they have to exaggerate about this. I knew this happened from all my years as a mod on a dirt bike site and the "Bench Racing" done anytime a bunch of riders get together. What does lying about an accomplishment get you? I am sure the insecurity comes into play but what do you gain when you get found out? As Dudelsack said, Strava and other ride with GPS sites can cure this or at least stop some from doing it. I am just at a loss to understand the mindset.

I am too much like Stapfam, I admit I am slow, I am not as fit as I could be or as some others are. Play the Hand You are Dealt and just enjoy all there is about your life.

End rant, I really want to go riding today.

Bill

There, my friends, is the bottom line.