Mountain Biking - Hard tail vs Full suspension

The MTB forum seems far too quiet...
Hard Tail vs Full Suspension, and dont sit on the fence, pick a damn side.
Have fun

And a steel one at that.

Hardtail :)

You answered the question correctly :)

What are the vs...?
What do you ride...?
What's better for dropping off a cliff...?
Prefer...?

I do almost all my riding on ht bikes.

ht baby

Hardtail!

Hardtail.

HT, BUT I am looking to get a FR FS in the next few years.

Had to vote for FS......nobody else has. more traction, less bouncing.

Full Squishy. What can I say, I'm getting older and the HT is starting to hurt.

well i think that fot people on a budget or something like that (as me) is better to get a good ht rather than a cheap fs bike... i was looking at cross country fs and they look nice.. specialy the fsr from specialized... and the sugar i believe from gary fisher... tell me if im wrong at this point...
see ya

I don't like the Sugar, nor hardly ANY Gary Fisher. The geometries just never felt good for me and my body dimensions. Plus, I think GF suspension design is poor. Also never felt right.

this should be a sticky

Had to vote for FS......nobody else has. more traction, less bouncing.
Think you got it backwards, mate. Too much bouncing with the FS. I have these things halfway down my legs, big joints called knees. They do a pretty good job of soaking up what the front suspension doesn't. I'll take a properly tuned front suspension over a full squishy any day. Gave the FS to my wife.

this should be a sticky


Not yet. We'll let it run it's course and die it's course.

Polls eventually wear out of interest.

I don't like the Sugar, nor hardly ANY Gary Fisher. The geometries just never felt good for me and my body dimensions. Plus, I think GF suspension design is poor. Also never felt right.
why? would you give me a more deep explanation?

Each manufacturer builds their bikes to what they feel is the "optimum" design to fit what they consider to be the "average" size rider. Gary Fisher's idea of "average" and my "actual" body dimensions are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Thus, their bikes always felt horrible when I rode them. I also have distain for Genesis Geometry.

Specialize bikes however always felt "Right" to me. So, I buy them!

Also the suspension on the Fisher's is pretty poor. I'm a big fan of a Horst four bar or modified Horst (like Kona's Rocker arm, with Horst chainstay pivots) vs. a carbon seat stay that flexes in lieu of a pivot.

I'm a big fan of a Horst four bar or modified Horst (like Kona's Rocker arm, with Horst chainstay pivots) vs. a carbon seat stay that flexes in lieu of a pivot.
The frame I gave my wife has a Horst linkage. Doesn't seem to need some newfangled shock to work properly either.

Specialized bikes however always felt "Right" to me. So, I buy them!
.Same here.
I voted Dual squish because while you should learn your skills on a hardtail after enough time HT's just start to beat you up too badly.

Not this again.

And to be totaly honest. I want to edit the pole. Neither one is best overall.

For djing - ht
normal xc - ht
some fr type trails - either depending on my goal
dh and fr - dually
street - either depending on the size of my gonads that day :)

Think you got it backwards, mate. Too much bouncing with the FS. I have these things halfway down my legs, big joints called knees. They do a pretty good job of soaking up what the front suspension doesn't. I'll take a properly tuned front suspension over a full squishy any day. Gave the FS to my wife.

I think he means in truly rough situations (I can think of a couple of trails where only the best ht riders could survive without getting bounced)...when the going gets rough you CAN'T move your legs fast enough in a suspension motion so you can get stuck with chatter. Good duallies eliminate this WITH the use of your knees and suspension. Why is it that the biggest defence of ht lovers is this sudden lack of leg bending when you start riding a dually. hahaha

I think he means in truly rough situations (I can think of a couple of trails where only the best ht riders could survive without getting bounced)...when the going gets rough you CAN'T move your legs fast enough in a suspension motion so you can get stuck with chatter. Good duallies eliminate this WITH the use of your knees and suspension. Why is it that the biggest defence of ht lovers is this sudden lack of leg bending when you start riding a dually. hahaha

Actually I have no problem riding the extremly rough stuff on a hardtail. Do I wind up feeling it later, yes but no pain, no game. Skeetball on the otherhand I have problems with.

Like I said. There are definately people that have the reaction time to handle it at speed. But I can't tell you how many times I saw guys on a ht on schelyer getting the ass kicked because they didn't have a little suspension to help them out. Not saying suspension is required, but it helps most riders go faster through really rough stuff (speed bumps are the worst on a ht)

Our tandem is a hardtail with a DH fork up front. I am far removed from what happens back there, but my wife never complains. Not everyone rides rough downhill stuff, and I'm sure there's plenty of guys that would buy a FS if the price was right, but really don't need it for most of their riding. My Cannondale has about 3 inches up front, and I really enjoy that ragged edge feeling I get when I push it in the rough. That's just me though.

Thats cool. What fork is up front and do you have a pic?



but really don't need it for most of their riding


Agreed 100%. Same with disc brakes imo :)

Thats cool. What fork is up front and do you have a pic?

Agreed 100%. Same with disc brakes imo :)
You've seen it before. Dean at ATC Racing custom built the fork for us.

http://www.ozbikesports.com/images/tandem2.jpg

Nice setup. Yeah I remember asking for a pic before. :)

We've got Magura Hydraulics for it, I've just got to order the stainless braided lines, and then we need to swap the fork for a Marzocchi DJ when we travel. Oh, I also got some SRAM 9 speed for it too. The very long wheelbase makes it heaps fun to bomb down trails. The tracks we ride on our single bikes are much more fun on the tandem. Faster too, most of the time.

Steel Hardtails rule!

Steel Hardtails rule!
Definitely. Right after titanium. Now go edit the link in your thread so we can see your photo.

[QUOTE=Expatriate]You've seen it before. Dean at ATC Racing custom built the fork for us.




Yet another tandem and this one will walk all over solos on any downhill (Except for D.H. Bikes on D.H.courses) whether it be in sheer speed, or handling over rough ground. Concession made to stoker though in a suspension post fitted.

Incidentally-- Dale Mt2000 frame Boxer Race forks with heavier springs and a bit of setting up for the tandem, Hope M4 Mono brakes with 200mm discs, and Hope big un hubs with mavic EX729 rims and 36 spokes, Mainly XT, and downhill specific bars and other fitments

I still ride solo, and its Hardtail for me with an "older Bianchi"

Definitely. Right after titanium. Now go edit the link in your thread so we can see your photo.

Here we go, you asked for a pic..... Its in my Sig under Feel the Rhythm

HT, mainly because I ride street and a DJ whenever I get the chance and love the fact that I go bigger on my HT then most of the squissy I ride with, unless Im doing seriouse DH then I have no use for FS, besides if I was going to race DH I'd probably just throw a boxxer on my HT.

Iride full squish on trails and hartail on street. My somewhat bad back will talk to me when I'm riding street. We rode street for about 3 hours last night and my back was really starting to hurt at the end. I'll ride trails today on my 5&5 rig.I'm 38 man,got to take it easy on the joints when I can. Street riding on a small HT frame is a blast but I pay for it. :D

hardtail expect for 35 foot drops

You've seen it before. Dean at ATC Racing custom built the fork for us.

http://www.ozbikesports.com/images/tandem2.jpg
That is a beasty machine, i like it.

i like the clip-ins in the front for trial riding and platforms on the back for downhilling and hucking. nice setup

i like the clip-ins in the front for trial riding and platforms on the back for downhilling and hucking. nice setup
I have little Shimanos up front for me, and my wife has the 636's (DH clip-ins) in back. Gives her a bit more room to "dance" back there, while I'm either in our out. And as Stapfam stated, we do have certain advantages on a tandem, in dirt or on the road. Plus, my wife always rides with me. Oh yeah, I just added a suspension post for her too. We were going to get the Cannondale tandem, but they were spec'd pretty crappy for AU$5k. I figured we could build a better tandem for that much. Once I factored in the 100% error rate for my estimate, we were right on target. I don't have anything against the Cannondale, but we need the S&S couplers for travel. Titanium was just a bonus.

heh, i didnt even notice the pedal setup. How much does that monster weigh?

I would have to go with hardtail for everything except for the big drops. I like the feeling of pushing the pedal and the bike going forward and not down because of the suspension. Nothing beats the acceleration of a hardtail, especially when you are in the middle of a race and can't stand any lost power. I have to admit the a FR FS has saved a few of my bones for hard landings but I will still take a ht over it. Cornering on an ht just gives the feeling of more control. I can't say how many times I hit the brakes on a corner because I though I was going sideways or had a flat in the rear.

I have both :p :D

heh, i didnt even notice the pedal setup. How much does that monster weigh?
I haven't had a chance to actually weigh it, but it's pretty light for a tandem. The frame weighs 3.7kg, which was a good start. Weight wasn't the primary concern, a compliant ride was. Since we import a lot of stuff to Australia, I've been replacing bits and pieces as we go. Nearly every nut, bolt or fastener is titanium as well. Currently looking for a 100-110mm ti stem. 90 was too short, 120 creates a bit more excitement than I'd like. In a previous thread I explained why titanium rotors are a bad idea. I had some custom ones made up, and they lasted 220km before they wore and destroyed two sets of pads. The front ones actually seized up, and shot out during a group ride. We rode home on a single weak rear brake. When we win the lottery (I can only justify this expense once) we'll get another one with the independent pedalling system, titanium full suspension frame, and a Rohloff rear hub. It's not that I feel we need the suspension, I just think my wife deserves a smoother ride back there. Not that she's ever complained. We'll find someone to ride with us so we can get some action shots some day.

I'll say Hardtail just because, from what I've seen and done, hardtail is better at street and dirt jumping, as well as overall not so rough trails. However, hardtails can downhill and freeride as well, just requiring more skills.


Generally, I think in Downhill and Freeride, hardtails are acceptable, but Duallies are preferred. On most trails, they usually break even, with hardtails pedalling slightly (or much) better. On street and dirtjump, hardtails are usually the preference, I'm guessing weight, suspension and control play a factor with duallies not doing so well.

I think hardtails can have more use than an FS. Just my 0.02

FS for me, i used to ride a hardtail, but as soon as i went to my fs i hardly ever rode hardtail again

Hardtail for me too and soon to be a steel one.

Yay my post was revived :)

Damn I sorrounded by you hardtaillers. Those are the fastest XC bikes out there, and I came close to buying one myself, but your ass just turns to jelly after a while, and the best bikes are full, and you can't deny that...

They each serve their purposes.

Hardtails- XC, DJ, mountain-cross, getting across town

Full- Hardcore XC, Hardcore freeride, and Downhill

yea but your legs are the most sophisticated suspension out there. even compared to a 5th element

True, but whenever I ride my brother HT ('04 Hardrock) I just feel so nervous riding it too hard, the back feels like it's going to snap over every little rock.