Bicycle Mechanics - Do those self sealing inner tubes work?

I need new inner tubes... 26 x 1 3/8.
I see them at Walmart. I think Bell was the brand.
Do they really seal themselves if I get a small hole... like from a thorn?

OR...What tube would you recommend ? Something punchure resistant, if there is such a thing ??

You talking about the ones with some sort of "Slime" inside? They seem to great slow down the air loss when a thorn goes in. But not always. They do well for small holes, but not so for larger punctures (greater than 0.2mm diameter) and then the goop inside seems to sputter out and release air, never really sealing. And the slime makes patching the tube more messy. Are they worth it? Not sure. I fix so many flats all the time (not necessarily for myself) that patching a flat isn't a big deal or a long ordeal. But, knock on wood, I haven't had anymore flats since the 3-in-one-day I got after forgetting about my wife on mother's day last month. I'm almost 4 weeks out of the dog house on flats which is good Karma.

Just renewed my emergency bags on my bikes today. Nothing worse than having glue thats too old or patches are that dried out. With QR wheels and the sheer modular nature of bikes these days fixing a flat is super easy.

I had the Slime spit back into my "household" tire pump.
A pump that was good for 50-55 PSI is good for about 30 PSI now.

So much for pumping a friends tire!

It also settles to the bottom while the bike sits and takes a few miles to redistribute itself.

My main road bike has Gatorskin tires, which are puncture resistant.
On my other bikes, I use tire liners, and have not had a puncture while using them.
I have heard that Gorilla Tape works as a tire liner. I have some, and it seems tough enough, but haven't used it for tires yet.
In the Denver area we have these awful goathead thorns, so some sort of protection is needed.

A point nobody's seemingly mentioned is that the slime gets on the outside of the tube if you do get a puncture big enough, and it then makes patching the tube even harder. Don't bother with them, mechanics also don't like it when they let down a tyre for whatever reason and it blasts slime out of the valve. I've had bikes at my local co-op do that. Not pretty.

you can try tire liners instead
http://mrtuffy.com/ultraLite.php

thanks for the input.
Walmart has tire liners. Bell Brand I think.
Regarding Gorilla tape, how do you install it?

I personally use slime tubes on my mtb and have had great luck with them. Being in Denver I used to get goatheads stuck in my tires all the time but the slime tubes took care of it. Now as far as patching the tube I would never try to patch a slime tube if it didn't "heal" itself I would just buy another one. As for the slime leaking out of the valve into a pump I can see that being a problem but in the mtb I usually just pump it up with a compressor since its a schrader valve, but the few times I did use my hand pump I didn't have a problem.

The Bell or the Slime does not work with high pressure road tires, but do work great with lower pressure mtb tires. Once a thorn or whatever enters a high pressure road tire with Slime it deflates instantly, so you try pumping it up and it holds till you get between 65 to 70psi then it's flat again. This is because Slime cannot hold high pressure, and while it's leaking its turning your rim tape into a green mess.

you can try tire liners instead
http://mrtuffy.com/ultraLite.php

:thumb: to Mr Tuffy!
Or you could get some tires with a kevlar belt built into it. Schwalbe makes a great one.

If thorns like the goathead are the problem then Mt Tuffy and kevlar belts fail. Kevlar belts do not take to stabbing type of puncture well, slashing type of punctures works great though. Its the same principle of a knife being able to kill a person wearing a kevlar vest, the knife blades separate and cut the fibers. Mr Tuffy you would think would be great, and for the most part they are, but for some reason Goatheads penetrate those liners with very little difficulty. I've had goatheads penetrate a Gatorskin tire with a Mr Tuffy! But I never had a goathead penetrate a Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire without a Mr Tuffy.

Tire liners and slime tubes are only stopgap measures to combat tire failure. If you upgrade your tires, not only will a tire liner be unnecessary, but slime tubes will not be needed because of the much higher protection afforded by a high quality tire. Also, tire liners can cause flats if installed improperly, chafing or pinching the tube as they move around within the tire.

A few good choices are the Vittoria Randonneur, the Continental Touring Plus, and the Schwalbe Marathon Plus. These are heavier tires, and not suitable for a racing bike. However, they have a very thick anti-puncture strip that will stop pretty much anything that isn't a roofing nail or a pinch flat. They are also extremely durable.

Buying cheaper tires and trying to "improve" them using anti flat strips or slime tubes is false economy -- by the time you are done messing around with that and have worn your tire out, you are likely to have spent more money than the price of a higher quality tire.

So... upgrade your tires.

The slim works well... if your not buying the tires that cost twice what they should. Often there the difference of getting home for the fix.. vs on the road or getting the ride to the home base.

Again, Slime does nothing to help road tires, unless your willing to limp home with about 60 psi in the tire after a flat. Like I said before, the high pressure of road tires prevents the Slime from sealing even the smallest pin hole once pressure exceeds 65 to 70psi.

Also Slime tubes use the worst presta valves I've had the misery of using, they lasted about 6 or so attempts to pump before the valve would fail...and I don't mean clogging, although they would do that, but I mean the valve would actually break. I've never had this problem with any other presta valve.

Buy your tubes of choice, then add slime. Slime has gotten me home on several occasions, I ride on a TERRIBLE road strewn with all kind of flat inducing debris. As far as I'm concerned, flat tires are unacceptable at any time - this is the 21st century. Combination of slime filled tubes and Marathon tires is what works for me...

I've run Stan's Notubes sealant in tubeless tires for years with great results, and have even gone to road tubeless in recent months. As far as inner tubes with sealant in them, I haven't done that on any of my own bikes.

We do some "product experimentation" here at the shop sometimes, and I did a little R and D the other day with a cheap tire. I removed the valve core from the inner tube, injected a couple of ounces of Stan's sealant into it, sealed it back up, aired the tire up, and put the wheel on my truing stand and started poking holes in the tire with a thumbtack. As I would puncture the tire I'd hear some air escape, I'd spin the wheel on the stand, and the leak would instantly seal. I probably punctured it twenty times with the tack before I got bored with it, and it was still holding air at that point. Later, I mentioned it to one of my co-workers, and he slashed it with a utility knife a little more severely than the sealant could handle.

Bottom line: IMO, there's value to Stan's sealant in an inner tube, but there are limits to what it will seal.

thanks for the input.
Walmart has tire liners. Bell Brand I think.
Regarding Gorilla tape, how do you install it?

Note that I have not used it yet. I'd say to clean the inside of the tire and measure how wide the tape needs to be, Cut the tape down to width and just apply it as evenly as possible, overlapping the ends by an inch or two.

Again, Slime does nothing to help road tires, unless your willing to limp home with about 60 psi in the tire after a flat. Like I said before, the high pressure of road tires prevents the Slime from sealing even the smallest pin hole once pressure exceeds 65 to 70psi.

Also Slime tubes use the worst presta valves I've had the misery of using, they lasted about 6 or so attempts to pump before the valve would fail...and I don't mean clogging, although they would do that, but I mean the valve would actually break. I've never had this problem with any other presta valve.

Slime works relatively well for me in road tires at 95 psi. I'm in goathead territory (NM) and after trying thick tubes, liners, kevlar tires, etc., I settled on cheap presta tubes, cheap tires, and slime. Of course, the slime still fails with anything bigger than a pin-prick and that happens once or twice a year. Now I simply replace tubes every two months, or as needed if sooner, rather than gluing on 4 or 5 patches per week.

I'm good at patching tubes, but after a while it gets ridiculous, and the downsides of sealant become a non-issue. YMMV.

Slime works relatively well for me in road tires at 95 psi. I'm in goathead territory (NM) and after trying thick tubes, liners, kevlar tires, etc., I settled on cheap presta tubes, cheap tires, and slime. Of course, the slime still fails with anything bigger than a pin-prick and that happens once or twice a year. Now I simply replace tubes every two months, or as needed if sooner, rather than gluing on 4 or 5 patches per week.

I'm good at patching tubes, but after a while it gets ridiculous, and the downsides of sealant become a non-issue. YMMV.

I'm not going argue anymore about the Slime, they didn't work for me on road bikes but did just fine on the MTB's. Anyway enough of that. Why replace tubes every 2 months? Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires will stop all goatheads, and the tires are about $45 and will last about 5,800 to 6,000 miles depending on rider weight and road conditions; then combine that with a normal tube and you would be good to go. All you have to do, if you want, is to buy one and put it on the rear (that's where most flats occur) and ride and compare flats frequency between the Specialized and your combo of tire and Slime. If you like the results of the Specialized then you know what to do. But buying tubes every 2 months is rather expensive and you'll easily exceed the cost of Specialized tire in about 10 months.

I too got good at fixing flats due to goatheads, but as you say it got to be ridiculous, and add to that the cost of tubes and tires and it became more insane then ridiculous

Don't forget I use to live in the Mojave Desert of California and Goatheads flourished like a wild fire on a hot dry windy day...which is the conditions of the Mojave Desert most of time!

I'm not going argue anymore about the Slime...

:) I have contemplated getting the Armadillo's, they seem to get a lot of praise. I'm going to call around right now and see If I get them. If they don't work I'll send them to you and expect a full refund. :D I would love to be able to ditch the sealant.

I guess after trying various Continentals, Panaracers, and Schwalbes, with and without an added liner, without success, I don't have faith in any tire being able to stop those pointy little bastards. And it's not so much about the money, it's about being able to ride my bike as much as possible with the least amount of hassle.

Im using HD thorn resistant tubes in 406-47 Schwalbe marathon plus, tires
on my BikeFriday, which I commute on...

:) I have contemplated getting the Armadillo's, they seem to get a lot of praise. I'm going to call around right now and see If I get them. If they don't work I'll send them to you and expect a full refund. :D I would love to be able to ditch the sealant.

I guess after trying various Continentals, Panaracers, and Schwalbes, with and without an added liner, without success, I don't have faith in any tire being able to stop those pointy little bastards. And it's not so much about the money, it's about being able to ride my bike as much as possible with the least amount of hassle.

HAHAHAHA. Well that's why I suggested just getting just one so I'm not on the hook for a couple of dozen or however many bikes you have!!

Schwalbes are another great tire against goatheads, but they weren't out when I had my problems so I never got to use them. But I think the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires are a bit lighter in weight.

Self sealing tubes are like tires - there are different qualities, the better ones cost more, abd the cheaper ones are much less effective. Stans Tire Sealant and Zefal Z-Sealant can be added to any tube with a Schrader valve. Some brands of tubes with Presta valves make a two piece valve with a removable core that will let you also load a flat preventative liquid.

Do they work? Yup! The electric bicycles we sell in the shop come equipped with Schwalbe Marathon Suprwme tires. But changing a flat pn an e-bike is expensive due to the added complexity of having to disconnect a hub motor - so to further reduce the possibilities of flats - the Schwalbies are backed up with self-sealing tubes.

I once got a random flat tire on the inside (rim side) of my rim and my tube had slime in it. I couldn't patch it, and it was before I used to carry tubes with me (but now do as a result), so I had to limp it to the bike shop to get a new tube.

Self sealing tubes are like tires - there are different qualities, the better ones cost more, abd the cheaper ones are much less effective. Stans Tire Sealant and Zefal Z-Sealant can be added to any tube with a Schrader valve. Some brands of tubes with Presta valves make a two piece valve with a removable core that will let you also load a flat preventative liquid.

Do they work? Yup! The electric bicycles we sell in the shop come equipped with Schwalbe Marathon Suprwme tires. But changing a flat pn an e-bike is expensive due to the added complexity of having to disconnect a hub motor - so to further reduce the possibilities of flats - the Schwalbies are backed up with self-sealing tubes.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that. How fast does the new goo work? I mean is it instant or does the tire go flat but seals upon airing back up? From the way you worded it I assume you don't need to switch to tubeless rims or use a conversion kit to go tubeless to use the stuff, because Stans is noted for their no tubes and the sealant used for that. If your speaking of the Stans tubeless conversion the kits are expensive at almost $70 but it does around 16 tires so I guess that's not too bad. But there's been pros and cons in the reviews on this stuff.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that. How fast does the new goo work? I mean is it instant or does the tire go flat but seals upon airing back up? From the way you worded it I assume you don't need to switch to tubeless rims or use a conversion kit to go tubeless to use the stuff, because Stans is noted for their no tubes and the sealant used for that. If your speaking of the Stans tubeless conversion the kits are expensive at almost $70 but it does around 16 tires so I guess that's not too bad. But there's been pros and cons in the reviews on this stuff.

You can inject Stan's sealant into an inner tube and get pretty good results, as already noted. I'm not convinced it works quite as well as as it does in a tubeless tire, but it does.work. See my earlier post in the thread where I describe a little test I recently did.

Side note: first time in 6100 posts I've used a smart phone to post.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that. How fast does the new goo work? I mean is it instant or does the tire go flat but seals upon airing back up? From the way you worded it I assume you don't need to switch to tubeless rims or use a conversion kit to go tubeless to use the stuff, because Stans is noted for their no tubes and the sealant used for that. If your speaking of the Stans tubeless conversion the kits are expensive at almost $70 but it does around 16 tires so I guess that's not too bad. But there's been pros and cons in the reviews on this stuff.

The Stans is available in a single treatment bottle meant to pretreat one tube and retails in Canada for about $4.00. The idea is to install the latex liquid in a tube BEFORE you have a flat and then just ..... enjoy riding. Any punctures less than 1/8in are sealed instantly - you'll never notice them.

The Zefal is available in a similar format for about the same price and also in an aerosol format that will both seal holes in a punctured tube AND inflate the tube to 35 PSI - suitable for mtb and wider hybrid tires. The aerosol retails for about $16 - pretty much the cost of repairing a flat in a bikeshop. Intended for on the road repairs and saves the trouble of replacing an inner tube. The tire pressure can be topped up with a hand pump.

The aerosol retails for about $16 - pretty much the cost of repairing a flat in a bikeshop. Intended for on the road repairs and saves the trouble of replacing an inner tube. The tire pressure can be topped up with a hand pump.

Who takes a bike into a bike shop for a flat repair? Oh that's right, there are people who do that. I've seen guys riding on expensive bikes with no seat bag for a flat repair kit nor noting in their rear jersey pocket, and no pump. I've had to helps some on the road over the years, I saw a guy in his late 50's maybe early 60's with a expensive bike outfit on, rolled his $8,000 bike into the shop to have a flat fix after his mommie...er I mean wife had to pick him up. I understand that there are people who don't have mechanical abilities, but I learned to fix a flat when I was 8 years old, my 11 year old brother taught me, but if an all thumbs 8 year old can learn to fix a flat I think anyone can.

Tire liners and slime tubes are only stopgap measures to combat tire failure. If you upgrade your tires, not only will a tire liner be unnecessary, but slime tubes will not be needed because of the much higher protection afforded by a high quality tire. Also, tire liners can cause flats if installed improperly, chafing or pinching the tube as they move around within the tire.

A few good choices are the Vittoria Randonneur, the Continental Touring Plus, and the Schwalbe Marathon Plus. These are heavier tires, and not suitable for a racing bike. However, they have a very thick anti-puncture strip that will stop pretty much anything that isn't a roofing nail or a pinch flat. They are also extremely durable.

Buying cheaper tires and trying to "improve" them using anti flat strips or slime tubes is false economy -- by the time you are done messing around with that and have worn your tire out, you are likely to have spent more money than the price of a higher quality tire.

So... upgrade your tires.

Since you live in the land of soft plants, I can forgive your ignorance. If you go just a little further south and/or east...say, central Washington or southern Alberta or down to the California/Oregon border where stevekk lives... I bet you'll find the dreaded Tribulus terrestris aka puncture vine, goat heads, tackburs, stickers or !@&#$(%^&#%$*+$%^^*#@ thorns. Good tires won't make a difference. Slime won't make a difference. Tire liners won't make a difference. Steel tires may not make a difference. The best you can do is avoid them by moving to places where they don't grow...yet:eek:

stevekk, I'm not a fan of them for the various reasons given above. The sealant tends to clog the valve and they are messy. You have to be very careful releasing pressure and never release pressure when the stem is at the bottom of the wheel. You'll look like a Vulcan crime scene! And, like I said above, I don't think they are all that effective. I've tried them on a goathead infested mountain bike ride and they didn't do any better than liners.

For the past five months I've been riding on Joe's No Flat tubes, pre-filled with liquid, but as of recently I've changed to a new self-repair tube by Michelin called Protek Max which doesn't have liquid in it (you'll have to read about how it works since it's a radically new design).

While riding on Joe's No Flat tubes, I never had a flat, but there was a couple of issues which made me change to "dry" tubes. One of the issues was the liquid getting into the pump nozzle and mucking everything up; as well as the added, noticeable weight, especially if the bike wasn't ridden for a few days where the liquid would gather on the bottom of the tube and solidify making the wheels wobble for a few hundred yards until it re-liquefied and spread out.

Its been about 100+ miles on the new Michelin tubes, and so far no flats, less weight and because of the square tube design, I've noticed that the sidewalls don't pinch as much as before, which really helps at my current weight (270 lbs) .

http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/michelinbicycle/index.cfm?event=protekmax.view

Since you live in the land of soft plants, I can forgive your ignorance. If you go just a little further south and/or east...say, central Washington or southern Alberta or down to the California/Oregon border where stevekk lives... I bet you'll find the dreaded Tribulus terrestris aka puncture vine, goat heads, tackburs, stickers or !@&#$(%^&#%$*+$%^^*#@ thorns. Good tires won't make a difference. Slime won't make a difference. Tire liners won't make a difference. Steel tires may not make a difference. The best you can do is avoid them by moving to places where they don't grow...yet:eek:

.

Having lived in the Mojave Desert where all those various thorns lived and breed I would have to disagree with the comments made in the above paragraph. While it was true I got flats galore for awhile before I ran into a bicycle shop screaming bloody bastard thorns are killing me...HEEEEELLLPPP! Finally one bicycle shop did help and sold me a pair of Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires, then they sold me a pair of Specialized ultralight tubes? Yes, ultralight tubes, the type used in racing. And told me to throw out the liners because I won't be needing them. I thought they were nuts but I had tried everything else so what the hay. In about the 10 years of riding on the Armadillos and around 40,000 miles in that area on those tires (obviously not 40,000 miles on one set of tires!), I only had one flat, and that was due to riding on a rear tire that had worn to the cords in spots.

One flat in 50,000 miles, whereas before the Armadillos I was averaging 2 to 3 flats a week with the second best set up which included the Conti Gatorskin tires, Mr. Tuffy liners, and thick thorn tubes; anything less then that including Slime tubes got me far more flats to the tune of 5 to 6 a week.

The one thing about getting all those flats...it sure made me very proficient a fixing them, that's why I went glueless patches to prevent waiting for the glue to dry on all those patches I was using. I know a lot of people hate glueless patches but they work for me fantastically...except on latex, but glueless patches are another story for another time.

Since 2007, I've been using Stan's sealant to my tubular tires with a great result. I don't use it on clinchers though.

Who takes a bike into a bike shop for a flat repair? Oh that's right, there are people who do that. I've seen guys riding on expensive bikes with no seat bag for a flat repair kit nor noting in their rear jersey pocket, and no pump. I've had to helps some on the road over the years, I saw a guy in his late 50's maybe early 60's with a expensive bike outfit on, rolled his $8,000 bike into the shop to have a flat fix after his mommie...er I mean wife had to pick him up. I understand that there are people who don't have mechanical abilities, but I learned to fix a flat when I was 8 years old, my 11 year old brother taught me, but if an all thumbs 8 year old can learn to fix a flat I think anyone can.

Pretty much anyone can learn to fix a flat, but that doesn't mean everyone is interested in doing it. Even people that fix their own flats still need to buy inner tubes. So we offer to install them while you wait. Why make a drama out of it? Not everyone wants to get their hands dirty. Today was nothing special and about 25 people showed up to have flats fixed. Most live locally so its clearly a choice.

Since you live in the land of soft plants, I can forgive your ignorance. If you go just a little further south and/or east...say, central Washington or southern Alberta or down to the California/Oregon border where stevekk lives... I bet you'll find the dreaded Tribulus terrestris aka puncture vine, goat heads, tackburs, stickers or !@&#$(%^&#%$*+$%^^*#@ thorns. Good tires won't make a difference. Slime won't make a difference. Tire liners won't make a difference. Steel tires may not make a difference. The best you can do is avoid them by moving to places where they don't grow...yet:eek:

stevekk, I'm not a fan of them for the various reasons given above. The sealant tends to clog the valve and they are messy. You have to be very careful releasing pressure and never release pressure when the stem is at the bottom of the wheel. You'll look like a Vulcan crime scene! And, like I said above, I don't think they are all that effective. I've tried them on a goathead infested mountain bike ride and they didn't do any better than liners.

Sharing your own personal experience (failures) isn't quite the same as sharing expertise.

Sharing your own personal experience (failures) isn't quite the same as sharing expertise.

So where is your expertise? Do you have any experience with goat heads in Montreal? I have a life time of experience with them having grown up in the middle of the infestation. I've tried every product used as an attempt to mitigate the problem. I've tried tire savers (loops of wires that scraped against the tire), 'thorn proof' tubes, Slime, tire liners, built in liners, Kevlar belts, etc. Most of them don't work. Those that do, like tire belts and built in liners, are expensive and wear out when the tire wears out. Some of the tires with built in liners like the Continental Contacts have even delaminated on me after only about 200 miles. Tire liners work as well as any other system and they are far less messy than the Slimed tubes and can outlast dozens of tires.

And at least I shared something rather than just a personal dig.

Thanks everyone.
I am a newbie and sure learned a lot !!

Pretty much anyone can learn to fix a flat, but that doesn't mean everyone is interested in doing it. Even people that fix their own flats still need to buy inner tubes. So we offer to install them while you wait. Why make a drama out of it? Not everyone wants to get their hands dirty. Today was nothing special and about 25 people showed up to have flats fixed. Most live locally so its clearly a choice.

So you install the inner tube for free while they wait? I didn't think so.

Drama or not, if your out riding a bicycle on the asphalt jungle you should know how to fix a flat. A car flat is a different story, sort of, but some people don't want to get their hands dirty as you mentioned, so they call AAA club or whatever club they might have, cyclists don't have that option. Fixing a bicycle tire flat is way easier then a car flat. If I see person on the side of the road with a flat bicycle tire I actually stop to help...help them by giving them the tools, explaining what each tool does and how to use it, by they time their done they sort of know how to fix a flat and what to buy. I don't do it for them, just talk them through it. Hopefully that person will be one less person spending money at an LBS to have a flat fixed.