Bicycle Mechanics - Proving my manhood by improving my girlfriend's bike brakes

So my girlfriend has a crappy Huffy that she got second-hand for $25 a long time ago, and the brakes are working terribly. The pads hit the rims, but the braking action is extremely weak -- you can jam on the brakes hard and it still takes a long way to stop. We wanted to improve it, but she knows nothing about how bikes work, and I'm still a beginner at bike maintenance!

The bike has some sort of caliper brakes. From what I've been reading, those sometimes have an inherently lower mechanical advantage, so I suspect that's part of the issue. That notwithstanding, here was my beginner's plan to trying to improve them. Does it make sense?...

1.) Clean the rims. So the pads hopefully grab the rim better. I see some people saying use isopropyl alcohol, others saying to use a degreasing agent. I have some crap called "degreaser concentrate" for washing hands - is that OK to use, or should I use something else? Any recommendations?

2.) Install new brake pads. Not that hers are worn out, but I'm sure they're crappy nonetheless, surely old and brittle. Her current ones are shaped like these Grey Matter pads (http://www.amazon.com/Dia-Compe-Grey-Matter-Brake/dp/B001CJZ2S8/), but I'd rather use these Aztec pads (http://www.amazon.com/Aztec-Aztec2-Bicycle-Brake-Threaded/dp/B000FSSMNE/) if I can. Will it be possible to install the Aztecs on her caliper brakes? I just want to check to make sure there's no incompatibility.

3.) Adjust the pad position correctly. Goes without saying, but at least one of her current brake pads is hitting the rim at some crazy angle and not getting much surface area contact on the rim.

Does this plan make sense? Any feedback or other easy tips I can do? Remember, I'm a beginner, so I'm not ready for something like "rip out the brakes and install new V-brakes" yet...

Before trying to prove your manhood on a potentially self-defeating task, you need to assess the following:

a) do you have steel or alloy rims? Steel rims on old Huffy bikes might not get good grip at all. All the cleaning in the world may do no good. Also check that the wheels are true. If not, that can prevent moving the pads closer together.

b) installing new brake pads is also not a guarantee to work. It may not be the pads themselves. It may be the brake surface being steel/chrome and very slippery. It may also be really flexible brake arches or compressive cable housing.

c) be careful that your brake pad adjust doesn't result in massive brake squeal. That might not be a good proof of manhood.

V-brakes require cantilever bosses soldered/brazed a priori to the fork and seat stays, or some bolt-on equivalent. Probably not an option unless those bosses are already there. Don't be too disappointed if there is no help for bad huffy brakes.

Typical box store Huffy's have horrible brakes. The calipers are too thin and flex way too much when under load.

The main thing is true the wheels so you can get the pads as close as possible and get maximum lever travel before the handle bottoms out.

Huffy's were a convincing factor for me to buy a truing stand!

The bike has some sort of caliper brakes.

install new V-brakes

Which is it? caliper brakes or V brakes?

You can make just about any crappy V brakes work well, but not with a steel rim.

Caliper brakes (always cheap and nasty ones) or steel rims on something masquerading as a MTB invariably means it's a BSO*.

If you have a BSO and you develop the slightest interest in cycling, you should turf it and get a real bike.



*If it's old, it might be a piece of crap yet also a real bike that works... but that market sector doesn't really exist anymore. The TLA means bike-shaped object.

First off, I will warn that this is a lost cause
its a huffy, meaning you have many issues going against you:
the rims are steel, which have poor braking ability
the calipers are stamped steel -far too flexible for good power


However, seeing as how this is a GF/manhood issue, spending money is possibly a good investment in the larger scheme of things.
two approaches,
1. go to a real LBS and buy an entry level hybrid for 3-400$ (do, not buy a walmart bike) she will be amazed by the difference
2. upgrade parts on the huffy

upgrade path as follows: (ordered to mnimize cost)

better brake pads
these are your best bet:
http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-continental-salmon-brake-479.htm

stiffer brakes:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ESFAXA/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0041X5XR2&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1TSEHWBT2WMRZ6AN4KQR
double check the distance from mount bolt to pads on your old ones 79-99mm is the range for these, good odds it will work with the huffy mtb tires....

aluminum rims
replace the wheels with modern-er ones with aluminum rims; new ones cost more than the bike is worth; so only do this by transplantation from a cheap donor bike
make sure the number of cogs on the rear wheel matches
if you can find a dead walmart bike, say a NEXT or a Magna and its new enough to be aluminum wheels, and you only pay 10$ at a garage sale for it; then as bad as it is the wheels would be an upgrade....

really, just buy her a better bike

First off, I will warn that this is a lost cause
its a huffy, meaning you have many issues going against you:
the rims are steel, which have poor braking ability
the calipers are stamped steel -far too flexible for good power

really, just buy her a better bike

There's your only real hope.

I'm thinking she probably has some emotional attachment to that Huffy. Anything that you do to that bike is going to affect that. You will have cobbled up the old bike that she loves and it's still not going to work very well. Making a bad situation worse is not going to boost your manhood score.

New pads, properly adjusted, will probably make a noticeable improvement over the stock pads. Kool Stop's Salmon pads are the gold standard. The Salmon-colored compound has great friction. However, I usually buy Jagwire Basics because they cost less and work well-enough.

When working on Huffys, I usually replace cables and housing at the same time as pads.

Get a shop to do the work if you want to impress your girlfriend.

Be prepared to spend more than the bike cost.

Clean rims, new pads and proper adjustment will give you as much braking power as is possible with that bike. If they are steel rims try to find some alloy rims with a machined braking surface that would fit the bike. Go used as there is no way it is worth getting even a low end wheelset for a $25 Huffy. If you hit a bike co-op for the wheels, look for better brakes as well, even something off an old Schwinn road bike is better than the stamped steel on most Huffy's. If you can find a set of calipers off of a brand name bike like a Trek, Giant, Specialized, Raleigh, Cannondale, etc. so much the better.

Don't overlook cables. The cheap universal cables and poor routing common on department store bikes adds to the mushy feeling of the brakes.

You have been warned above, but you could very easily get way more into this project than the bike is worth. Instead of putting any real money into this bike, you can prove your manhood by finding her a better used bike. Old chrome-moly MTBs are plentiful and inexpensive. They also come with cantilever or v-brakes which inherently provide much better braking.

BTW, you can't just switch caliper brakes for v-brakes, it would require extensive modification to the bike including adding mounts to the frame, new brakes, possibly new levers, and rerouting of the cables.

Lots of good advice has been posted above. Is it possible to attach pictures of the brakes? It might be helpful to see what you have and how it is set up.

Simple green on the rims and sanding off the glaze on the face of the pads can make a big difference without spending a thing. So can toeing in the brakes, on calipers like these you just bend the stamped steel...

Kool Stop claims to have brake pads that will work on any rim material. They have dozens of pad types. There's gotta be one that can work for the newbie.

Thank you all for the outstanding responses. The "proving manhood" thing was mostly a joke, and neither she nor I are taking this that seriously. :lol: I just wanted to do what I could with it for the short-term.

Appreciate the warnings about not expecting too much from the final product - it'll help me feel less bad when the final product isn't stopping on a dime. I know you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. And I do think it's smarter not to try to invest serious money on this junker. We'll start thinking more seriously about just replacing it. But for now, I'm sorta looking forward to messing with it, for experience and fun if nothing else.



Which is it? caliper brakes or V brakes?
Sorry I wasn't completely clear -- they're some sort of caliper brakes.


Is it possible to attach pictures of the brakes?
I'll see if I can take a photo of them today.


do you have steel or alloy rims?
From the sound of it, they're probably uber crappy steel, but I actually am not completely certain. Is there an easy way to tell? Is it on the rim somewhere? I couldn't find the answer in 15 seconds on Google and I have to run in a sec...

If they are "chrome plated"- steel.
If a refrigerator magnet sticks to them- steel

really, just buy her a better bike


There's your only real hope.
Making a bad situation worse is not going to boost your manhood score.

+2.....I work on more Huffys than most people (along with
the other various ___Mart bikes).

If you really love your girlfriend, unless this is one of the
old coaster brake "Leave it to Beaver" Huffys, do everyone
a favor and find her a real bicycle.

Of course, Mel, one of the other mechs at the bike coop here, says,

Anyone can work on that high end Campy and Dura Ace crap.
It takes a real mechanic to tune up a Roadmaster.

I was gonna make that my sig line, once upon a time.:love:

That's a good call, that quote.

Tuning BSOs is a PITA, but the biggest problem with it is they tend to start going out of tune again straight away...

Part of the joy of working on Campy or DA/Ultegra/105 is seeing and feeling in the gear that it'll retain your settings because everything is well-designed and strong enough.

Alright... here's what I'm up against! (Photo should hopefully be clickable)

257187

To my untrained eye, it looks like the brake pad visible in the photo is aligned too low. So if I'm understanding right, that means the bike is losing braking power there, because less surface area of the pad is connecting with the rim. And the lip underneath is not only potentially dangerous but makes proper pad adjustments difficult to impossible without some pad surgery. Am I correct about all this?

I didn't even notice it at the time, just randomly snapped a photo of the bike and only saw it when examining the photo. The funny thing is that that particular pad is far from the worst of the set. :lol: But in a way, it's kind of a good thing, because it makes me feel like there's a lot of obvious room for improvement.

So I decided to order new high-quality brake pads after all, because I wanted a "clean slate" as a newbie pad adjustor, and their grip ability can't be any worse than the ones she's got on there now. When we replace this bike and get her a nice one, which is just a matter of time at this point, I hope to be able to take the nice new brake pads off and transplant them to a new bike, assuming they're still in decent condition.

I won't be able to work on this thing for a couple weeks, but for laughs, I'll come back and report on how it goes.

1. The back brakes don't matter much. A lot of the time you'll want more braking than it takes to lock up the back wheel anyway. If the bike doesn't have front brakes, OMG.

2. Those brake calipers are junk; I'd replace them before I bothered with the pads. They're so crap, you might have a hard time tuning them to be good enough to lock up the back wheel; they're woefully inadequate for the front.

Put one of these (http://harriscyclery.net/product/tektro-r539-47-57mm-reach-dual-pivot-brake-caliper-front-std.-nutted-version-3079.htm) on the front.

If the bike doesn't have front brakes, OMG.
It does.


Those brake calipers are junk
How can you tell at a glance? Is it just because single-pivot calipers are especially weak in general?

They're the ones made out of bent steel plate. They're brake-shaped objects.

And the vast majority of single-pivot brakes don't cut it on the front, although they're generally perfect for the back.

It does.


How can you tell at a glance? Is it just because single-pivot calipers are especially weak in general?Not really. It's that the thin steel arms are very long and flexible. This causes a lot of the lever-force to get lost AND the long arms reduce leverage. Cantilevers or V-brakes would be a better choice for a bike like this. Not easy to upgrade to that, so dual-pivot calipers would be the only choice. However, that's not needed to get decent braking-performance.

Go here and learn to adjust the brake optimally: Park Tool - Sidepull Brake Service (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/sidepull-brake-service)

That said, I have gotten quite good performance out of bikes like that. Easiest and cheapest route is teflon-lined cables and pads made for chrome-plated rims. Then teach your girlfriend how to brake quickly (straighten arms, push back all the way with butt hanging off the back of seat, belly on the seat). Due to the physics involved, the faster you want to brake, the more and more weight is transfered to the front-wheel. Meaning very little weight remains on the rear for traction. Maximum-braking occurs at about 0.83-0.88g with the rear-wheel skimming the surface or slightly off teh ground with 100% of traction & braking coming from the front-tyre. I saw this 12-year old girl at Sears Point and she was out-braking everyone!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/Motorcycles/ElenaMyers2.jpg

Thanks for the replies and links, very helpful.

I'm having mixed results so far. The back brakes seem to be somewhat improved. They feel decently responsive now, and I can actually get the wheel to lock if I brake hard enough.

The front brakes are another story. I try to make sure I'm getting good, solid pad contact, but they just feel weak, even weaker than the back brakes. That surprised me, because I thought the front brakes were supposed to have more stopping power when properly set up. Am I doing something wrong with my adjustments? Shouldn't I expect to be able to get the front brakes stronger than the back ones if I've properly set this up, even with my crummy equipment?

Random other issue, I'm having trouble getting the brake pads tightened into place where I want them. My method is to start with them somewhat snug but slightly movable, close the brakes, wiggle them into position, and then tighten the pad. Problem is, when I go to tighten and the torque resistance starts ramping up, turning my allen wrench tends to make the whole pad tilt. So it's hard to get the pad to stick perfectly in place while I'm tightening with the allen wrench AND one hand is already tied down in clamping down on the brake as hard as I can. Any tips would be super appreciated.

Once you have it snug, hold the pad with a shifting spanner to tighten it.

And your front brakes may well be slowing you down more effectively than the rear, but still be miles off being able to lock the wheel... at a rough guess I'd say it takes something like 1/10th the force to lock the rear.

Thanks for the replies and links, very helpful.

I'm having mixed results so far. The back brakes seem to be somewhat improved. They feel decently responsive now, and I can actually get the wheel to lock if I brake hard enough.

The front brakes are another story. I try to make sure I'm getting good, solid pad contact, but they just feel weak, even weaker than the back brakes. That surprised me, because I thought the front brakes were supposed to have more stopping power when properly set up. Am I doing something wrong with my adjustments? Shouldn't I expect to be able to get the front brakes stronger than the back ones if I've properly set this up, even with my crummy equipment?

Random other issue, I'm having trouble getting the brake pads tightened into place where I want them. My method is to start with them somewhat snug but slightly movable, close the brakes, wiggle them into position, and then tighten the pad. Problem is, when I go to tighten and the torque resistance starts ramping up, turning my allen wrench tends to make the whole pad tilt. So it's hard to get the pad to stick perfectly in place while I'm tightening with the allen wrench AND one hand is already tied down in clamping down on the brake as hard as I can. Any tips would be super appreciated.

Start with loose pads
squeeze brake lever so you can position pads
hand tighten bolts so pads stay in place
release brake lever to free up 2 hands
use allen key/wrench to tighten pads


yes, front brakes should be stronger given identical brakes
maybe this is a cable pull issue? do both brake levers move the same amount before pads touch rims?

You are doing great and getting some experience. Everyone has given you some good advise so I will give you some bad advise. Rub some bacon on it.

My neighbor has Huffy like that with horrible brake and he had me look at it.

i installed new Jagwire pads and threw on some high ratio MTB levers I had lying around. It stops.

Make sure the pads you put on the brakes are for caliper brakes. Sounds like common sense, but you'd be surprised. Make sure her wheels are true. Surprise her with a new (better) bike soon and you'll really hit the jackpot on the manliness scale.

Several of my Ex GF's have nice bikes now ..

Several of my Ex GF's have nice bikes now ..


+1, you aren't alone, buddy :roflmao2:

Alright... here's what I'm up against! (Photo should hopefully be clickable)

257187

To my untrained eye, it looks like the brake pad visible in the photo is aligned too low. So if I'm understanding right, that means the bike is losing braking power there, because less surface area of the pad is connecting with the rim. And the lip underneath is not only potentially dangerous but makes proper pad adjustments difficult to impossible without some pad surgery. Am I correct about all this?

I didn't even notice it at the time, just randomly snapped a photo of the bike and only saw it when examining the photo. The funny thing is that that particular pad is far from the worst of the set. :lol: But in a way, it's kind of a good thing, because it makes me feel like there's a lot of obvious room for improvement.

So I decided to order new high-quality brake pads after all, because I wanted a "clean slate" as a newbie pad adjustor, and their grip ability can't be any worse than the ones she's got on there now. When we replace this bike and get her a nice one, which is just a matter of time at this point, I hope to be able to take the nice new brake pads off and transplant them to a new bike, assuming they're still in decent condition.

I won't be able to work on this thing for a couple weeks, but for laughs, I'll come back and report on how it goes.

One cheaper option with this type brake is if you have a bike coop or someplace in your area to get used parts is to get some vintage long reach calibers off a older BMX bike. As for pads on this style of brake cool stop continentals are your best bet they are designed for older cheaper brakes and rims.

Several of my Ex GF's have nice bikes now ..

That's better than "my ex wives have nice houses now."

Entertaining thread. All excellent suggestions, and I'm glad the issue of cable housing was mentioned. The goal is to reduce flex and friction everywhere in the system so that maximum power gets to the brake pad/rim interface, where friction needs to be maximized. Teflon housing not only helps with friction but also with flexing, as there is tighter tolerance between cable and housing interior.

One thing I did not see mentioned is housing length. With department store bikes especially, housing length can be much longer than necessary, introducing a large amount of flex into the system. The cable must press against the inside curves of the housing all the way from levers to calipers before any brake movement occurs. It's important to cut down the housing so that there is only enough to provide a gentle arc, including when the handlebars are turned.

The front brakes are another story. I try to make sure I'm getting good, solid pad contact, but they just feel weak, even weaker than the back brakes. That surprised me, because I thought the front brakes were supposed to have more stopping power when properly set up. Am I doing something wrong with my adjustments? Shouldn't I expect to be able to get the front brakes stronger than the back ones if I've properly set this up, even with my crummy equipment?Yes, the front-brake should have 10-90x more braking-power than the rear. Might be a good idea to disassemble a little and inspect each component:

1. unclamp brake-cable from caliper. Then squeeze calipers by hand. Do they pivot smoothly with no binding or excess friction? Grab the pads and move forward & backwards. Is there any axial-play of the caliper-arms on the pivot-bolt? You want the pivot-bolt nut adjusted so that there is no axial-play, but not so tight the arms bind. May be a good idea to completely disassemble the caliper and grease the pivot-bolt where the arms sit.

2. grab the free cable-end with one hand and squeeze the lever with the other. Then relax the lever and pull the cable-end back out. How is the cable-movement? Is it smooth and easy?

3. unclip the cable from the lever and pivot the lever-arm by itself. Is it smooth with minimal lateral-play?

4. pads & rims. Clean with alcohol. If they're greasy, clean with stronger solvent like acetone. If the pad-surface is hard, you can lightly sand the surface with some 220-grit sandpaper to remove the old crispy material and expose clean softer rubber.

A couple more thoughts:

If these are upright bars the wrong lever position on the handlebars or too large diameter hand grip could limit the travel of the calipers.
If they are downturned bars extension (suicide) levers will never stop the bike sufficiently and also reduce travel of the regular levers.

Lose the huffy. As was suggested somewhere above get a $50-60 old mtb on CL, there are always these bikes for sale. Do not get one originally sold by mart or box stores. Be sure it has v-brakes and aluminum rims and fits here correctly, it will be a huge improvement over the huffy with just about any brand. Dealing with the huffy is a total waste of time and money and in the end the huffy will still be crappy.

Brian

There are actually some decent Huffys around. It's not about brand-name so much as specs and component selection.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8J91GJLYeL4/SqLoKY2RciI/AAAAAAAAATQ/md7Up8VhiBQ/s1600/DonaldTrumpHuffy+copy2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8J91GJLYeL4/SqLoKY2RciI/AAAAAAAAATQ/md7Up8VhiBQ/s1600/DonaldTrumpHuffy+copy2.jpg

Thanks again for all the good responses. The thing about my girlfriend is that she really does like her bike and would rather not replace it. She understands that replacing parts would cost as much as just getting a decent used bike, she just likes her old one.

I think I'm gonna bite on some new equipment. Gonna get some Kool Stop Salmons, because they seem to have a good rep with steel rims (and other rims, if I ever replace the wheels down the road), and I'm getting some dual-pivot calipers. But I have a few questions to make sure I understand this correctly and don't mess anything up and order the wrong stuff.

1.) Will these Kool Stop Continentals (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Continental-Salmon/dp/B001SYM690/) work with any dual-pivot caliper brakes?

2.) Is there a functional difference between the salmon and grey colors for these Kool Stop Continentals (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Continental-Salmon/dp/B001SYM690/)? I would rather have the grey color for her bike, because it will fit the color scheme better. I know that sounds dumb, but women care about that sort of thing. But the Kool Stop website makes it sound like the Salmons are made of a different compound (1 (http://www.koolstop.com/english/continental.html), 2 (http://www.koolstop.com/english/compounds.html)). So there are differences besides just the color?

3. I don't really get how to install the new dual-pivot brakes yet. I'm looking at the Sheldon Brown article on them (http://sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html). Since she has single-pivot calipers now, and those have a centerbolt down the middle, how does it work with the centerbolt position on the new dual-pivot calipers? The centerbolt is off to the right, correct? And that means I can't just use the same hole in the frame that the bike previously had? What do I do, drill a new hole through the frame or something? I'm kind of lost... (And no, I don't want to just have a bike mechanic do it!)

1 - yes

2 - the colors are different rubber compound, get the salmon ones

3 - the mounting bolt on the back is centered like your old ones
the main thing you have to worry about, is are the brake arms long enough to reach the rim?(there are different sizes)
will the fat huffy tires fit inside the brake?

These should fit.

stiffer brakes:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ESFAXA/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0041X5XR2&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1TSEHWBT2WMRZ6AN4KQR
I'd see how they go with the pads that come with the calipers; there's a chance they'll work fine, even with the steel rims.

xenologer, if I can pull this off, I'll buy you a beer!
No, seriously, I'll send you money in the mail, not even joking.

Roger that on the Salmon brakes, will get the orange ones and not any substitutes.


3 - the mounting bolt on the back is centered like your old ones
the main thing you have to worry about, is are the brake arms long enough to reach the rim?(there are different sizes)
will the fat huffy tires fit inside the brake?
I didn't have time to take anything apart, but measuring with a ruler from the side, it looks like the distance from center bolt to the middle of the rim is somewhere between 3.25-3.5 inches or 83-89mm. The Tektro brakes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ESFAXA/) have a range of 79-99mm. The Huffy tires are about 2" at their widest, and the Tektros are made for 2.125" tires. So size-wise, I'm good to go?

I don't completely get the stuff about the recessed mounting in the Sheldon Brown article (http://sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html). The Huffy doesn't have the allen (hex) hole for tightening of the center bolt, just a normal nut at the end of a bolt that extends all the way through the frame. As far as I can tell, the Tektros are made for traditional nut (non-recessed) style. So there's nothing incompatible there? Are the new center bolts just going to be assumed to be able to fit right through the hole of the old ones, and be the correct length? Just checking...

Also, will I need any unusual tools to complete the job? I already have an adjustable wrench and allen keys.

You're good to go.

A-OK.

Fire away.

The thing about my girlfriend is that she really does like her bike and would rather not replace it.
She understands that replacing parts would cost as much as just getting a decent used bike, she just likes her old one.



You know the proving your manhood thing ?
Elvis has left the building....................:D

OK, I went ahead and ordered those Tektro brakes. Thanks, Kimmo! You get a beer too. How about a Foster's, since you're down under?

So here's something bad that happened with this bike. I'm sort of embarrassed to share it, but I want to learn what I did wrong, and maybe you guys can have some cheap laughs at my expense.

Here are the brake pads that were previously on the bike...

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I still plan on replacing them with Salmons eventually, but in the meantime, I wanted to try replacing the pads with some other ones I had lying around, just to get practice adjusting pad placement. Here's the type of pads I replaced them with. Why are they torn? Read on...

258646

So I had 'em all lined up on the brakes like this, doing a good job, or so I thought. Decent placement, not too high or low, good tangent, everything nice and tight. They were lookin' like this.

258648

So I'm trying them out, braking hard and getting back wheel locks, when I go to test the back brakes one more time and clamp hard on the lever. All of a sudden, I get a kaa-runch sound, and the bike almost immediately stops moving. Luckily, I didn't get thrown off or anything. I should have thought to take a photo right then, but here's some of the aftermath:

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If you look on the right side of the brake, you can see the arm of the brake is bent, and the whole side is actually twisted under the seat stay. The pad itself was also lodged at some crazy angle, which explains why the whole wheel locked up, and of course the pad got ripped too.

I'm probably lucky I wasn't hurt, and the other good news is that the back brake itself is just a part that's getting replaced anyway. What concerns me is how this happened at all. Did I adjust something wrong, maybe something wasn't tight enough? Was it simply a case of the long, weak Huffy brake arms being strained and bending under too much pressure? Or was it just me being an idiot and using an incompatible type of brake pad replacement? The old block type just had the simple washer and nut, with none of the cup-and-plate stuff on the newer pads I put in it. Anybody know or suspect what happened?

I haven't actually ordered the Salmons yet - for safety, I want to double-check the type of brake pad I install with my new Tektro brakes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041X5XR2/). xenologer recommended the Kool Stop Continental (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Continental-Salmon/dp/B001SYM690/), and indeed in the example photo of the Tektros, it shows a simpler nut-and-washer type block pad, a la the Continentals, without the little angled cups on the bolt. Does this mean I can't fit the Tektros with a cup-bearing pad like the Kool Stop Supra 2's (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Threaded-Salmon/dp/B000BMT2GU/)? I'd rather have the cup-style pads if it's going to make micro-adjustments like toeing in easier, but not if it's going to result in unsafe conditions!

Because nothing is less manly than having your girl do a faceplant! :twitchy:

Was it simply a case of the long, weak Huffy brake arms being strained and bending under too much pressure?

It sure looks that way, doesn't it? I suppose one needs to worry about putting on a pad that's too good for the calipers.

Once again, there are various issues with these sorts of bikes that
can make them dangerous. At the risk of seeming like a nag, is there
any way at all you can get your girlfriend to ride a better bicycle ?

Substandard is kinda the design specs for these things.

Go for it. This will be complete evidence of your manhood.

So I'm trying them out, braking hard and getting back wheel locks, when I go to test the back brakes one more time and clamp hard on the lever. All of a sudden, I get a kaa-runch sound, and the bike almost immediately stops moving. Luckily, I didn't get thrown off or anything. I should have thought to take a photo right then, but here's some of the aftermath:

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If you look on the right side of the brake, you can see the arm of the brake is bent, and the whole side is actually twisted under the seat stay. The pad itself was also lodged at some crazy angle, which explains why the whole wheel locked up, and of course the pad got ripped too.

I'm probably lucky I wasn't hurt, and the other good news is that the back brake itself is just a part that's getting replaced anyway. What concerns me is how this happened at all. Did I adjust something wrong, maybe something wasn't tight enough?... Anybody know or suspect what happened?First, you did a very good job of installing the pads. I see some toe-in, but not too much, great job! There are several problems.

1. the rims have old melted brake-pad material on them. This causes areas of varying friction and you get pulsating/squealing brakes. At some point, the pads will stick more to the melted rubber on the rim. Then the pad will get pulled forward and jammed between the rim and seat-stay. This makes it REALLY stick and your weight and momentum will pull it through that tiny gap and destroy the pad and caliper. On bikes like these, there typically is an L-shaped bracket that goes between the pad & caliper. The short leg of the L is positioned about 1mm away from the seat-stay so that when braking-forces push the pad forward, the force is braced against the seat-stay instead of the flexible caliper-arm. Be sure to clean the rims with acetone/nail-polish remover to take off all the old melted-rubber from the rims before using the new brakes.

2. Second and more problematic, you're using the back brake! You will NEVER get any decent braking out of the back brake due to the laws of physics. Once the rear-wheel locks, you're not gonna get any more braking-force out of it. You can put on a $10,000 rear caliper designed by rocket-scientists and built out of unobtanium by elves in the Black Forest, and that bike still will not stop any better than the stock back-brake, because both of them can lock up the rear. Sure, the $10,000 caliper may lock up the rear by just breathing on the lever, while the stock-brakes may require a squeezing handful, but stopping-distances will be exactly the same.


If you don't learn and don't teach your GF to use the front-brake optimally, someone will get into a bloody wreck with serious bodily injury resulting in permanent maming and dismemberment. At 20mph, using the back-brake will stop you in about 90ft. From that exact same speed, using the front-brake optimally will result in a complete stop after only 15ft.

During my 10-years working in a shop, 10-years of racing, 35-years bicycling and 30-years motorcycling, I have seen numerous gory crashes and have been called in as expert-witness to testify on a variety of "accidents" with riders going through car's bumpers, under 18-wheeler trucks and off +100ft cliffs to their deaths. Upon examining the evidence and photos, while the initial cause may have been an inattentive driver, the biggest contributor to the rider's demise was a single curved tyre-mark on the ground. That's the telltale sign of a rider swerving and locking up their rear-wheel at the same time. Due to the extra 75ft distance needed to stop using the rear-brake vs. front, they slid and crashed into the exact obstacle they were trying to avoid, adding ultimate insult to injury.

If you want to prove your manhood to your GF, learn and teach her to use the front brake by straightening your arms, pushing your butt off the rear of the saddle and lowering your body as much as possible to brace yourself against the deceleration (also prevents you from flipping over the bars). Stopping from 20mph in 15ft is possible and may save your or your GF's life someday, but it requires some practice and preparation. We wear helmets, buy insurance and wear gloves for a reason, also a good idea to practice riding-skills as well.

I haven't actually ordered the Salmons yet - for safety, I want to double-check the type of brake pad I install with my new Tektro brakes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041X5XR2/). xenologer recommended the Kool Stop Continental (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Continental-Salmon/dp/B001SYM690/), and indeed in the example photo of the Tektros, it shows a simpler nut-and-washer type block pad, a la the Continentals, without the little angled cups on the bolt. Does this mean I can't fit the Tektros with a cup-bearing pad like the Kool Stop Supra 2's (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Threaded-Salmon/dp/B000BMT2GU/)? I'd rather have the cup-style pads if it's going to make micro-adjustments like toeing in easier, but not if it's going to result in unsafe conditions!Personally, I would just use the pads that came with the Tektros first. They will be significantly better than the stock pads on the bike. The increased performance of the KoolStops over that will not be anywhere nearly as big and may not even be noticeable.

Spend that money on new cables: Aztec - Coated Mountain Brake cable (http://www.amazon.com/Aztec-Coated-Mountain-Brake-Cable/dp/B000FSQQGE/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1340855466&sr=1-1). They will make a bigger improvement in performance than going from the Tektro pads to KoolStops.

BTW - you can also remove the beveled washers and nuts from the trashed Aztec pads and use them on any other pads you may acquire in the future.

Personally, I would just use the pads that came with the Tektros first. They will be significantly better than the stock pads on the bike. The increased performance of the KoolStops over that will not be anywhere nearly as big and may not even be noticeable.

Spend that money on new cables: Aztec - Coated Mountain Brake cable (http://www.amazon.com/Aztec-Coated-Mountain-Brake-Cable/dp/B000FSQQGE/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1340855466&sr=1-1). They will make a bigger improvement in performance than going from the Tektro pads to KoolStops.

I'm going to jump in here just to agree with DannoXYZ, don't worry about the Kool Stop brakes until you put the new brakes on and see how you (and/or your GF) like the braking. BTW, you said this a while back


The front brakes are another story. I try to make sure I'm getting good, solid pad contact, but they just feel weak, even weaker than the back brakes. That surprised me, because I thought the front brakes were supposed to have more stopping power when properly set up. Am I doing something wrong with my adjustments? Shouldn't I expect to be able to get the front brakes stronger than the back ones if I've properly set this up, even with my crummy equipment? It's not that front brakes have more stopping power, it's the front brakes do 80-90% of stopping. This means there is more demand on the front brake to stop the bike. If the brake is not up to the task, it will feel weaker than the rear brake that needs less power to do it's job.

I'm going to agree and say you probably did a good install, and the only reason the brake arm broke is because it's poorly made to begin with.
Just too flexy and weak to stand up to real brake pads.
in fact, some of those old steel calipers even had little guard plates (for lack of a specific term) that mounted in front of the pads and rested on the seatstays; thus preventing them from flexing too far forwards. Something like that might have saved this brake from jamming between the wheel and frame like that.
Moot point though since you're getting rid of them.

At the risk of seeming like a nag, is there any way at all you can get your girlfriend to ride a better bicycle?
I don't think so. Her attachment to it and its sucky brakes were the motivation for me trying to fix it up for her in the first place. I'm not too worried about the amount of stress she'll put on the bike, though, because she is so gentle with everything and always rides very very very slowly.

I'm trying to practice bicycle skills with her. She's a person who never shifted gears before, because she didn't understand how to use them. Since her bike is "in the shop," we went biking one day with her on a borrowed MTB which actually shifts gears cleanly, and I think she sort of gets it now. (I was sort of hoping that her getting to try a "real" bike would make her more apt to want to give up the Huffy, but no luck.) I hope we can also practice everyday important things like proper braking and locking of the bike as time allows.


You will NEVER get any decent braking out of the back brake due to the laws of physics.
In that case, I was just testing the back brakes to see how they were working. Thanks to you guys, I'm learning about proper braking technique, i.e. using the front for max deceleration in emergencies.

Random yet related success story! I just got to look at brakes for a different friend who got a very decent road bike for $50 at a bike swap. He'd installed some sweet puncture-resistant tires on it, but I could tell the braking system was goofed. Wheel not aligned straight, pads under the rims, toes-out pads, you name it. After like an hour (lol) of messing around, I had things improved and tried some hard braking. I was getting front wheel locks for the first time ever, which surprised the heck out of me - never had the combination of gear and tuning to achieve that, and it felt weird/scary having the rear wheel lift up like that. Gave me a little chance to practice braking technique too. Plus, I actually fixed something without goofing it up!


Spend that [Kool Stop Salmon] money on new [coated] cables
Thanks for the tips, all very handy. Would it be the end of the world if I didn't use compressionless housing with that coated brake cable? I know it's better, but I don't want to drop like $40 more on this thing if I don't have to... (I know compressionless is the way to go for indexed shifting, which it has, but I don't plan on changing the shifting cable at this time.)


the rims have old melted brake-pad material on them
I noticed that later too. What I don't get is how the heck that got on there, because the first thing I did before anything else was clean the rims on her bike, and I didn't notice the black streaks. I don't know if it's something to do with the steel rims of her bike or what.

My plan is to clean her rims as you instructed and then, assuming I can actually get the new brakes installed correctly, cautiously test them and see if the black streaks are coming back. If they are, and it's a chronic issue, then that scares me, and I'm not going to deem the project finished until I also get new rims on that thing.