Folding Bikes - Dahon finally releases their Brompton "killer"!

256890
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/jifo.htm

...and I got to test ride it Saturday at my old LBS. Impressions:
-Folds very small, but I'm not sure if it's smaller than a Brompton or not without seeing them side by side.
-Stands more sturdily while folded than the Brompton.
-Lighter than I remember the Brompton being.
-Handles well with a fairly stiff ride...way stiffer than the Brompton or tikit.
-Folds quicker than the Brompton...maybe not as quickly as the "hyper fold" tikit, but the Jifo's system of linked rods is less finicky: clack-clack and it's folded without any way to foul it up.
-Quick release pedals with a very easy-to-operate design.

So overall the Jifo seemed like it pretty much shared the same advantages and feel of other Dahons just with a smaller fold...and that includes the folding mechanism which has a certain polish and stiffness about it because the rods eliminate the need for the user to guide any flopping or swinging parts into place (hard to describe, but folding the Jifo feels more like "shutting a door" than "folding" something).

Only thing I don't like is the non-unified rear triangle...but I'm picky about that (when is Bike Friday going to make a 20" wheeled tikit?).

I see a couple of quick issues...

Single speed
Won't work for anyone over 5'-9"
Max weight recommendation is 209#

NOT a Brompton Killer IMHO


I'm out.

Aaron :)

the ones we have are copper color, quite nice
darn that thing is small ..it fits very easy into the back of my miata ( mx5 Mazda ) almost certain I can get two in there ...
It fits EASY in the lazarette of my boat with lots of room to spare ...

Yes its one speed and 5.9 is pushing it ... although taller people have testride mine and they were impressed.
I will loose the silly fenders on my personal one ....

Now I am thinking of selling my Curve SL (internal gears) ... its a different bike and somehow rides even nicer, but I have too many bikes and having the jifo in the box on my boat will be better than having the Curve sitting at home ... ( no its not going to be cheap ...lol )

thor

I see a couple of quick issues...

Single speed
Won't work for anyone over 5'-9"
Max weight recommendation is 209#

NOT a Brompton Killer IMHO


Not sure where you got the idea that it "won't work" for anyone over 5'9" or 209lbs...thorusa says he "recommends" it for people under 5'9" and under 209lbs but perhaps he'd recommend the same for the Brompton? Thor says,
"these are some numbers, weights, measurements, which are different than the official Dahon word, but I feel much more comfortable with my own suggestions."

All I can say is to me it didn't feel any more cramped than the Brompton and the Brompton is also sold as a single speed, so I'm not sure why you'd count that as an "issue" with the Jifo (though I just realized that according to thor the Jifo uses a super narrow 76mm rear hub...so maybe upgrading it to a 3 speed will be harder than I initially thought).

Disclosure statement: I own a Brompton and I am very happy with it.

That said, I see one major flaw with the Dahon's rear fender: it's too short. Water will cling to the rear tire and then launch itself onto the back of the rider, their head and/or helmet, and the seat post. In know this because I own another folder with a rear fender that is too short, the KHS-F20-A. The front fender of the Dahon is also a little short and will splash the feet of the rider...again, because my KHS folder has the same problem.

Ultimately, I see Dahon's entry into the market as a good thing because it will drive the design and engineering of folding bikes to be more compact and more efficient. Brompton has the advantage because they've had decades to improve their design. Dahon has shown they are willing to take on the challenge, but I don't think they are there just yet.

256890
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/jifo.htm

...and I got to test ride it Saturday at my old LBS. Impressions:
-Folds very small, but I'm not sure if it's smaller than a Brompton or not without seeing them side by side.
-Stands more sturdily while folded than the Brompton.
-Lighter than I remember the Brompton being.
-Handles well with a fairly stiff ride...way stiffer than the Brompton or tikit.
-Folds quicker than the Brompton...maybe not as quickly as the "hyper fold" tikit, but the Jifo's system of linked rods is less finicky: clack-clack and it's folded without any way to foul it up.
-Quick release pedals with a very easy-to-operate design.

So overall the Jifo seemed like it pretty much shared the same advantages and feel of other Dahons just with a smaller fold...and that includes the folding mechanism which has a certain polish and stiffness about it because the rods eliminate the need for the user to guide any flopping or swinging parts into place (hard to describe, but folding the Jifo feels more like "shutting a door" than "folding" something).

Only thing I don't like is the non-unified rear triangle...but I'm picky about that (when is Bike Friday going to make a 20" wheeled tikit?).

I thought the Brompton killer/cloner was supposed to be the Dahon Curl which to this date is still missing in action?!? :innocent:

agreed-not a "brompton killer" at all

I am 6-2" and Dahon bikes, even the ones rated for someone my height run over an inch small in the leg extension department. Brompton says rider weight limit of 245#, and they offer the extension seat post.

I ride where there are hills, gears are a gotta unless you plan on walking...a lot. FWIW my regular Raleigh 3 speed has a 24t cog on the rear and I still have a couple that I have to walk up.

Aaron :)

That aluminium single spar is going to crack away from the steering tube due to torsion induced work hardening. It is a common failure with Dahons and yet we all soldier on in denial of this design fault. This saddens me because the more successful folding designs there are out there the better.

Thor says, "these are some numbers, weights, measurements, which are different than the official Dahon word, but I feel much more comfortable with my own suggestions."

Thor also claims the Jifo has a coaster brake (http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/jifo.htm), even though it doesn't.


(though I just realized that according to thor the Jifo uses a super narrow 76mm rear hub...so maybe upgrading it to a 3 speed will be harder than I initially thought).

We'd all love to hear your thoughts on how multiple gearing could be added to the Jifo in any practical way.

I'm not in the industry and like Will Rogers I only know what I read in the papers. Andrew Ritchey has said the Brompton factory can produce 40,000 bikes a year. Dr. Hon has said the Dahon factories can produce 1,600,000 bikes a year. I seriously doubt there's been a single internal memo written @ Dahon N.A. about Brompton, and I don't even see these two bikes as competitors. The Jifo (http://www.dahonbikes.com/index.php?id=102) is a niche "last mile" bike in their extensive line-up.

I believe the Dahon Jifo 16 is a potential Brompton sales killer to people who might be looking at something like this. The Jifo gives people that option. It's the convenience when combined with transit that's closeby. You can cycle a mile or 2 FASTER than walking and people like that. Do they really care about fenders? They are just there to give a piece of mind. When it rains, they'll just walk.

How many Bromptons did I see thus far in Vancouver? Just 3 with 1 that's regular. I see a lot more Dahons. I was told that Dahon sales are the strongest in Europe, Asia and Australia + NZ. North American sales is a shockingly small portion, so how big is Brompton sales in North America? Probably very small as well. How many single speed cruisers I see on bike racks and in trains? A plenty! Single speed is not a limitation; it's what people want if they only plan to bike in the city and utilize transit which is what Brompton was conceived to do. You can get a basic non-folding single speed bike for a lot lot less than a Jifo or a Brompton. You can even get a non-folding steel Asama road bike with more speeds than a Brompton for 1/4 of the price. There are many factors that are potential Brompton sales killer and Dahon is not one of them.

I thought the Brompton killer/cloner was supposed to be the Dahon Curl which to this date is still missing in action?!? :innocent:

You are right, the Jifo is the Brompton killer killer.

Hmmmm ... Brompton Killer is probably an overstatement. Although assuming Chucky's review is broadly accurate regarding ride and such, it certainly is a competitor.

The typical Brompton has a wider gear range and can carry stuff with the front mount. Moreover, the bag can stay on the front mount while folded. I think that these are big plusses in Brompton's favor.

It's hard to tell visually whether the Brompton or Jifo will fit a wider range of people -- the Jifo's handlebar post is height adjustable and is likely compatible with other Dahon stuff that lets different handlebars and such be conveniently used. I didn't see the Dahon factory specs, but it appears that the Brompton has a higher weight limit. I can't tell which bike's fold is more conveniently small in a neat package.

From some videos it appears that the Jifo folds fast and that you can roll it on its 16" wheels while folded. This is Although I would include the time to lower the saddle to the frame in its folding time and the time needed to adjust the saddle to the correct height in the unfolding time. Whether or not one includes pedals is a toss up, IMO. The Jifo's price is much lower. Overall, I'd think that this is clearly the advantage of the Jifo over Brompton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDzt8VdGeNQ

I believe the Dahon Jifo 16 is a potential Brompton sales killer ......


There are many factors that are potential Brompton sales killer and Dahon is not one of them.


Am I missing something here ?

16" wheeled Dahons have no stiffness advantage over bromptons, the handlepost, extended as far as it must be with such a low and short head tube, flexes as much as the Brompton does except being aluminium it's not such a lively, springy sort of flex. The felt increase in rigidity of the jifo will originate from the lack of rear suspension, which IMO is a massive disadvantage in a bike with such small wheels and such a short wheelbase.

I thought this was the curl ? Dabrom
http://www.nycewheels.com/dahon-folding-bike-curl.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150620036398484_22886660_10151623648153484#f20360833

Look guys I put "killer" in quotes because that's what some people were calling Dahon's new designs that share some of the Brompton's advantages. I wasn't going to call the Jifo a clone because it's a very innovative design, but the design also clearly combines many of the Brompton's advantages while also solving some of the disadvantages....so IMO it's definitely an improvement over the Bromptom in some respects even if not the "killer" some were expecting.



I am 6-2" and Dahon bikes, even the ones rated for someone my height run over an inch small in the leg extension department. Brompton says rider weight limit of 245#, and they offer the extension seat post.


I ride where there are hills, gears are a gotta unless you plan on walking...a lot. FWIW my regular Raleigh 3 speed has a 24t cog on the rear and I still have a couple that I have to walk up.



This bike also has an extension seat post. So maybe you naysayers should give it a try before declaring how inferior it is based on brand name alone.


Not saying it will work for everyone, but the Brompton doesn't work for everyone either. I'm just sharing my impressions that's all.



Thor also claims the Jifo has a coaster brake (http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/jifo.htm), even though it doesn't.


We'd all love to hear your thoughts on how multiple gearing could be added to the Jifo in any practical way.


Just swap out the singlespeed hub for a 3-speed hub just like a Brompton. However, if the rear hub is really only 76mm wide then this obviously won't work, but I'm skeptical about Thor's specs.



Single speed is not a limitation; it's what people want if they only plan to bike in the city and utilize transit which is what Brompton was conceived to do.


Exactly. The Brompton was conceived for "last mile" multimodal transit and many of Brompton's customers pay thousands of dollars for singlespeed Bromptons for this purpose.


Those are the Bromptons that this bike might "kill" (ie the singlespeed titanium Bromptons that cost twice as much and are more fiddly to fold). As for the other Brompton models, I doubt this will be the only model Dahon is going to release featuring this innovative new folding design.



Although I would include the time to lower the saddle to the frame in its folding time and the time needed to adjust the saddle to the correct height in the unfolding time.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDzt8VdGeNQ


I'm not entirely sure that you do really need to lower the saddle separately like you do with the Brompton because the Jifo's seat tube is telescoping and the bottom portion is linked with the rest of the folding mechanism...it might depend on how you achieve the initial fit adjustment. However I agree that this is a major flaw for most folders, including the Brompton (only ones I can think of that don't have this issue are the tikit and carry-me).


But you really have to try folding the Jifo for yourself because it's not like folding other bikes...like I said it's really more like opening a folding door because those rods just guide everything into place without any attention or skill required of the user.


16" wheeled Dahons have no stiffness advantage over bromptons, the handlepost, extended as far as it must be with such a low and short head tube, flexes as much as the Brompton does except being aluminium it's not such a lively, springy sort of flex. The felt increase in rigidity of the jifo will originate from the lack of rear suspension, which IMO is a massive disadvantage in a bike with such small wheels and such a short wheelbase.

I never liked the Brompton's rear suspension because it felt mushy and power robbing (not to mention squirmy handling when the entire rear end tries to fold over big bumps). You might be right about handlebar flex, but I'm not so sure about that either because the Brompton depends on the handlebars themselves for extra extension and narrow aluminum handlebar tubing tends to be rather flexy.

That aluminium single spar is going to crack away from the steering tube due to torsion induced work hardening. It is a common failure with Dahons and yet we all soldier on in denial of this design fault. This saddens me because the more successful folding designs there are out there the better.

care to explain common failure ..... maybe even show me ONE .......... what a load of BS
Thor

p.s yes even Dahon has the once in a year broken frame,and they have. So far I have been able to solve every single one of them under warranty. Even if the bike was used lets say a little harder than its supposed to, even if it was not the original owner, even even even ..... can you tell me ANY other company who would do the same ?
and without any big problems.

back to Jifo
it is a super small rear axle ...... and of course I have to fix that coaster brake stuff on the website ...lol
I do have the gearing right and all the oter stuff should be pretty accurate as well
stiffness is not only cause of a certain length of tube .... it can be handled with doing a lot of different design things ..
The Jifo is definitely not a flat out racer, where stiffness is important. Its not designed for that.
Its not a Brompton Killer and is not designed to take away from Brompton marketshare of 0.000092 %
Are you kidding .... these guys dont hate eachother, they all want to grow the folding market !!!!
Those poor excuse of fenders, need to go ... they are silly, worthless, and make the bike look cheap ......
The front needs a v brake same as the rear ...

The Jifo is not perfect ...... But it folds in a jiffy, folds super small, is light, has ONE very good brake on it, and if you pedal hard it goes like a rocket ....

Thor

.. planning a drone attack on Bromptons, chucky?

This bike also has an extension seat post. So maybe you naysayers should give it a try before declaring how inferior it is based on brand name alone.




I don't base my opinions on brand name alone, I base them on FACTS. I have tried every folder that I have ever come across, in the 16" wheel size, Brompton is the ONLY one that has enough saddle to pedal range to fit me.

FWIW I currently own two Dahon Classic III. I can barely ride them by pulling the seat posts past the minimum mark. I only ride them fairly short distances. I have ridden a properly set up (for me) Brompton over 20 miles and see no problem with riding it much, much further if I chose. Dahon builds decent bikes for the price point, bu they don't build bikes to fit tall people with long legs like me. Brompton and Bike Friday do.

Aaron :)

I can hear a distance cry from Jifo 16 -- Can't we all get along?!? :crash:

I wonder when the EEZZ is being released?

Is Jifo an original design from Dahon? I've found this on Japanese magazine from last year.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/rain13/jif.jpg

I don't base my opinions on brand name alone, I base them on FACTS. I have tried every folder that I have ever come across, in the 16" wheel size, Brompton is the ONLY one that has enough saddle to pedal range to fit me.

:)
Have you tried the mezzo out of interest.
(Adding a sprung saddle can add up to 2 inchs leg to pedal when combined with cleat cycling shoes)

Have you tried the mezzo out of interest.
(Adding a sprung saddle can add up to 2 inchs leg to pedal when combined with cleat cycling shoes)

Have not seen nor tried a Mezzo, don't wear cleated shoes...well not the modern versions. There aren't any folding bikes here where I live,except the ones I own. Any time I travel I keep an eye out for shops that stock them and pay them a visit.

Aaron :)

...yes even Dahon has the once in a year broken frame,and they have. So far I have been able to solve every single one of them under warranty. Even if the bike was used lets say a little harder than its supposed to, even if it was not the original owner, even even even ..... can you tell me ANY other company who would do the same ? and without any big problems.

I actually got a letter from my folding bike's manufacturer that told me my frame might crack under normal use, it was a known problem with their design, and if the frame did crack they would NOT replace it and I'd have to buy another. Of course, this wasn't with Dahon, it was BikeFriday.

Is Jifo an original design from Dahon?

It doesn't seem to be, although Dahon's engineering department has clearly breathed on the design. The EEZZ (http://www.dahonbikes.com/index.php?id=107) (which is not for sale yet) seems to be a further development of this concept, and I'm hoping Dahon will expand this frame fold into other, more broadly useful models which offer a bit longer wheelbase and the ability to fit industry standard internal gear hubs.

There aren't any folding bikes here where I live,except the ones I own. Any time I travel I keep an eye out for shops that stock them and pay them a visit.

Aaron :)
So the "tried every folding bike and only the Brompton fits" is less of a grand supporting statement now !!!!

I don't feel that the pedal to seat length is a big strength of a Brompton here.
I dont feel that a Brompton fits a person of 5"8 or more very well, this is partly due to the lack of cockpit space, and the pedal to seat distance for me (5 foot 11). There are lots of people who disagree, or think it is OK given the complete Brommie package. Bromptons tend to fit women really well in my experience.

I feel lots of peope will only consider a Brompton when they consider a folding bike, and that the opposition gets overlooked due to hype/ bais in some quarters. So I don't think anything that Dahon does will greatly alter this postion with these 16" wheel bike consumers. From what I can gather on forums this effect is greater in some countries than others. In York, UK, I mainly see either Bromptons or 20" Dahons on trains, nothing else much.
Anyway Dahon make an extendable seatpost, Brompton do , bike friday do ttbomk, standard mezzo seatpost is fairly long.

Most people don't alter their bike much, but many of these shortcomings can be overcome by the meddling.
I might be interested in this Dahon, but not at full RRP.

I've read the arguments against Dahon and the aluminum frame and I think it clearly demonstrated some misunderstanding.

Most folding bikes are made as a one size fits all, except for some custom models. A one size fits all principle works well for most people, but obviously if you're too short or too tall, there will be challenges. This is a limitation of the sizing principle; NOT the brand maker. Dahon fits me well. Brompton, however, does not fit me well. Yes, I've rented many times from Clever Cycles. But this is just a sizing issue and it's got to do with the length of the top tube of any bike which should put you in a C.G (center of gravity) that feels right in all riding positions (climbing, seated and sprinting) to give maximum pedal stroke. I think it's rather silly and childish to criticize one maker for not making the correct frame size for you.

Secondly. Folding frames have to be designed to be more robust on the hinges. 10 years or more so ago, aluminum frames had to be overdesigned to prevent liability issues. These days, they are more robust especially on Tern bikes. Keep in mind that technology of bikes move forward, but people still adopt a certain dogma of prior years that they had the bad experience from a certain manufacturer and then make it as fact forever and goes around bad mouthing it. Unrealized for the fact that today's bikes are engineered with improvements from the past. Bike makers always make better bikes next year. This is to entice people who are loyal to a brand to upgrade either to address some older outstanding issues or simply to upgrade to a more appropriate ride.

The Jifo 16 is not for everyone. But sometimes I found that this forum has members who have a tendency to provide virtual opinion on a product they HAD NOT even seen or ridden and to provide un-factual opinion and make it as fact.

Fascinating..

care to explain common failure
common
adj.
2. Widespread; prevalent.

failure
n.
7. A decline in strength or effectiveness.


..... maybe even show me ONE
Here's one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/yokohamarides/3773585007/
Or here: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-575813.html
Or here: http://forum.dahon.com/index.php?showtopic=6487
Or here: http://www.tomw.net.au/2005/bbb.html
More than one here: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-281134.html



.......... what a load of BS

I'm a mobile bike mechanic, you're a Dahon dealer.


p.s yes even Dahon has the once in a year broken frame,and they have. So far I have been able to solve every single one of them under warranty. Even if the bike was used lets say a little harder than its supposed to, even if it was not the original owner, even even even ..... can you tell me ANY other company who would do the same ?
and without any big problems.

Yes, I can.

common
adj.
2. Widespread; prevalent.

failure
n.
7. A decline in strength or effectiveness.


Here's one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/yokohamarides/3773585007/
Or here: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-575813.html
Or here: http://forum.dahon.com/index.php?showtopic=6487
Or here: http://www.tomw.net.au/2005/bbb.html
More than one here: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-281134.html


Your original statement involved the steering tube.


That aluminium single spar is going to crack away from the steering tube due to torsion induced work hardening. It is a common failure with Dahons and yet we all soldier on in denial of this design fault. This saddens me because the more successful folding designs there are out there the better.

Maybe I missed something, but your examples don't appear to support your position. And your position seems to be that this result is invevitable. And your definition of "failure" is puzzling to me.

Of course, we don't know the actual number and types of failures. However, IMHO, a failure rate of less than 2% is not common/widespread/prevalent.

BTW, I think Thor may qualify as a bike mechanic. :)

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

I actually got a letter from my folding bike's manufacturer that told me my frame might crack under normal use, it was a known problem with their design, and if the frame did crack they would NOT replace it and I'd have to buy another. Of course, this wasn't with Dahon, it was BikeFriday.

How does this jibe with their lifetime frame warranty? http://www.bikefriday.com/service/policies

one a year ..... lol
did you check the dates ?
give me a break .... oops ...rather not

You just prooved my point, obviously you spend considerable time searching and thats all you can come up with ?
Dahon made something like 3 million folding bikes in that period of time ....

Ouch ....


yeah Mr Bike Mechanic and where is your agenda ?
I dont make no secret about being a dealer .... and I sign with my own name ....
Thor

So the "tried every folding bike and only the Brompton fits" is less of a grand supporting statement now !!!!

I don't feel that the pedal to seat length is a big strength of a Brompton here.
I dont feel that a Brompton fits a person of 5"8 or more very well, this is partly due to the lack of cockpit space, and the pedal to seat distance for me (5 foot 11). There are lots of people who disagree, or think it is OK given the complete Brommie package. Bromptons tend to fit women really well in my experience.

I feel lots of peope will only consider a Brompton when they consider a folding bike, and that the opposition gets overlooked due to hype/ bais in some quarters. So I don't think anything that Dahon does will greatly alter this postion with these 16" wheel bike consumers. From what I can gather on forums this effect is greater in some countries than others. In York, UK, I mainly see either Bromptons or 20" Dahons on trains, nothing else much.
Anyway Dahon make an extendable seatpost, Brompton do , bike friday do ttbomk, standard mezzo seatpost is fairly long.

Most people don't alter their bike much, but many of these shortcomings can be overcome by the meddling.
I might be interested in this Dahon, but not at full RRP.

If you are going to quote me quote the entire line...
I have tried every folder that I have ever come across

I have never, ever been told by Dahon, Dahon Dealers, nor have I ever seen mention of extension seat posts for Dahon bikes, until now.

I don't mind a short cockpit, my daily rider for years was a Raleigh Sports and they have a short cockpit, so that is what I am comfortable with. Leg extension is more critical to me.

Aaron :)

I see a couple of quick issues...

Single speed
Won't work for anyone over 5'-9"
Max weight recommendation is 209#

NOT a Brompton Killer IMHO


I'm out.

Aaron :)

While the retail price is somewhat lower than the Brompton (but not all that much), I too will pass as I prefer a steel frame, more gearing, a neater fold, and most of all, proven reliability/durability and unique proprietary parts ease of availability. Even my early 1970s Raleigh Twenty & Jetstar has those qualities. I just don't see it in this new product just like my former Dahons before it. Sorry, definitely not a Brompton killer in any way.



agreed-not a "brompton killer" at all

I'm not alone that's for sure.


That aluminium single spar is going to crack away from the steering tube due to torsion induced work hardening. It is a common failure with Dahons and yet we all soldier on in denial of this design fault. This saddens me because the more successful folding designs there are out there the better.

I rather go "vintage" with folding bikes as there are many more of those "old" bikes here than the new ones-like the one that is the subject of this thread-will be 40 years from now.


I believe the Dahon Jifo 16 is a potential Brompton sales killer to people who might be looking at something like this. The Jifo gives people that option. It's the convenience when combined with transit that's closeby. You can cycle a mile or 2 FASTER than walking and people like that. Do they really care about fenders? They are just there to give a piece of mind. When it rains, they'll just walk.

Actually, the only thing most people like the ones describe above cares about is how cheap the price of the bike is plus what their friends think of their choice in bicycles. Everything else is moot.


How many Bromptons did I see thus far in Vancouver? Just 3 with 1 that's regular. I see a lot more Dahons. I was told that Dahon sales are the strongest in Europe, Asia and Australia + NZ. North American sales is a shockingly small portion, so how big is Brompton sales in North America? Probably very small as well. How many single speed cruisers I see on bike racks and in trains? A plenty! Single speed is not a limitation; it's what people want if they only plan to bike in the city and utilize transit which is what Brompton was conceived to do. You can get a basic non-folding single speed bike for a lot lot less than a Jifo or a Brompton. You can even get a non-folding steel Asama road bike with more speeds than a Brompton for 1/4 of the price. There are many factors that are potential Brompton sales killer and Dahon is not one of them.

With folding or "oddball" bikes, it is a matter of education or even awareness of the existence of this bike type in the first place. Most people are just interested in paying as little as they can toward a bike or use what any old bike they have in the back of the garage. As for single speed, I just upgraded my former single speed Jetstar bike to a kickback 2 speed (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/816184-The-Final-Collapsible-Bicycle-Project-Of-All-This-One-Sporting-A-S-A-S2C-Kickback-Hub) one. There is much more ease of climbing up long hills. Believe me, there is.

As for sales, I always see a Dahon or 2 listed on Ebay or Craigslist for sale all the time. I only saw 1 Brompton on Ebay a long while back (and sold very quickly). Bromptons are rarely on the used bike market-especially in North America. Dahons usually are. So will this one eventually when the customer gets tired of it and it loses it's appeal just like most products in this throwaway society.

If you are going to quote me quote the entire line...

:)
Fair point, I was paraphrasing. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.


Re Dahon ex post
They certainly exist, I had one on my Dahon curve. I think Dahon might have stopped producing their extending seatpost, But last time I said this I had a reply stating if I needed one they could supply me with one.

I turned a Dahon SDG seatpost into an extending seat post, not to make it longer but so that it accepts a 27.2mm Thudbuster. Very easy to do. I'd imagine it'd be fine for lighter taller riders.

Is Jifo an original design from Dahon? I've found this on Japanese magazine from last year.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/rain13/jif.jpg


I think Dahon must have bought the design.
The Smartcog Bipod Mint is a 14" bike with 3 speeds and has been out since 2008, maybe earlier.
http://www.smartcog.co.jp/Products/mint-spec.htm
Seems as though you can get one in Japan for ~$850 at today's exchange rate.
http://www.loro.co.jp/item/fold_mini/other/bipod_mint.html

I really like the quick fold on these bikes because I'm lazy.
I'm just not loving the price.

I'm not entirely sure that you do really need to lower the saddle separately like you do with the Brompton because the Jifo's seat tube is telescoping and the bottom portion is linked with the rest of the folding mechanism...it might depend on how you achieve the initial fit adjustment. However I agree that this is a major flaw for most folders, including the Brompton (only ones I can think of that don't have this issue are the tikit and carry-me).


But you really have to try folding the Jifo for yourself because it's not like folding other bikes...like I said it's really more like opening a folding door because those rods just guide everything into place without any attention or skill required of the user.

I largely agree. That is, quite often I wouldn't lower the seat post while using a folding bike on Metro. I was simply trying to make folding times more consistent.

From the videos, the Jifo looks really convenient.

While the retail price is somewhat lower than the Brompton (but not all that much) ...

$400+ is a meaningful jump from a $900 retail price of the Jifo, IMO.

http://www.nycewheels.com/all-models-brompton-folding-bike.html

Great pic of the cat. I have fond memories of a rescued Maine Coon during graduate school.

Originally Posted by chucky http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=14377117#post14377117)
I'm not entirely sure that you do really need to lower the saddle separately like you do with the Brompton because the Jifo's seat tube is telescoping and the bottom portion is linked with the rest of the folding mechanism...it might depend on how you achieve the initial fit adjustment. However I agree that this is a major flaw for most folders, including the Brompton (only ones I can think of that don't have this issue are the tikit and carry-me).










Diblasi is another exception.

$400+ is a meaningful jump from a $900 retail price of the Jifo, IMO.

http://www.nycewheels.com/all-models-brompton-folding-bike.html

Great pic of the cat. I have fond memories of a rescued Maine Coon during graduate school.

How true of the different levels of pricing between Dahons & Bromptons. I-plus others too as well-would be willing to pay the extra amount as I tend to keep bikes for the very least a decade. My Brompton has doubled in price from the 700 dollars I paid for it back in 2005 to a whopping 1,400 dollars now. I go more for durability and dependability than flashy model upgrades.

Hellion the cat pictured is also a rescue I adopted last year. I hope to keep her with me all her (I hope) long life.

My Brompton has doubled in price from the 700 dollars I paid for it back in 2005 to a whopping 1,400 dollars now. I go more for durability and dependability than flashy model upgrades.

Hellion the cat pictured is also a rescue I adopted last year. I hope to keep her with me all her (I hope) long life.

yes ...Brompton's price has been going up around $100 every year here in the states probably because of the falling dollar which keeps losing its value ..I have a friend who keeps telling me that she's going to buy a brompton soon for the last couple of years and haven't done so and every year I remind her the price have gone up another $100. Yes a Brompton is an investment !! with a good return.

I doubt if dahon will ever have a brompton killer. the last 25+ years they've been making bikes they keep coming up with new model in the name of progress but what it is is that they haven't really figured out yet a design for a reliable folding bike like brompton which has only one[1] model type that has been proven since its inception. sure dahon outsells bromptons by the millions but someones has make cheap bikes for the masses and its dahon and i'm glad they're there to fulfill the need.

This jifo16 looks like an extension of their china domestic line, here is a bike that seems similar that was available several years ago.

Dahon Dove 14

With the extended seatpost from Dahon this allows for somewhere around 800mm extension from BB/top seat, normally enough for 190cm person.

Weight is similar, folded size similar.

Same narrow hubs front/rear, single speed.

New price in china (2 year warranty) : ~US$250.

Youtube of same,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVt8Jrog68

I doubt if dahon will ever have a brompton killer. the last 25+ years they've been making bikes they keep coming up with new model in the name of progress but what it is is that they haven't really figured out yet a design for a reliable folding bike like brompton which has only one[1] model type that has been proven since its inception. sure dahon outsells bromptons by the millions but someones has make cheap bikes for the masses and its dahon and i'm glad they're there to fulfill the need.

Brompton bikes are not cheap, certainly, and they are lower speced than most rivals at their price level.
Its unfair to imply that Dahon bikes are unreliable. They sell an alot of bikes that are reliable and work in their niche well. They are not just cheap bikes for the masses, they also have made many very desirable expensive folders that many people would like to own. speedtt, jetsream........etc

I feel the main area of comparison where Dahon badly falls down is the interchangeability of parts and asseccories between models. Where Brompton do really well with the retro upgrade stuff, buts its easier if you only make one bike type.

There's certainly scope for a much improved Brompton equivalent, the idea that you need titanium parts to offset the weight of cheap hi-ten steel and pay £1400 is totally ridiculous and there's a big gap in the market for something cheaper, lighter, and with proper consideration paid to stiffening the frame in strategic places. I think at some stage a big bicycle company will step in.

Dahon are in a curious position since Tern seem to have positioned themselves as doing what Dahon do but better. Perhaps Dahon will bring out more models that deviate from the standard fold-in-half design.

There's certainly scope for a much improved Brompton equivalent, .
I am not going to mention Mezzo, oh too late.....................

(I might get a Brompton next week. Might be seduced by second hand offering locally, he will need to price cheap enough for my tastes !), Diblasi is a great design IMO, love to see someone take that further at a reasonable cost.

Any chance of a more compact "If mode" ?
that would be interesting.

There's certainly scope for a much improved Brompton equivalent, the idea that you need titanium parts to offset the weight of cheap hi-ten steel and pay £1400 is totally ridiculous and there's a big gap in the market for something cheaper, lighter, and with proper consideration paid to stiffening the frame in strategic places. I think at some stage a big bicycle company will step in.

Dahon are in a curious position since Tern seem to have positioned themselves as doing what Dahon do but better. Perhaps Dahon will bring out more models that deviate from the standard fold-in-half design.

A Big Bicycle Company will step in and do what - give Brompton a slap on the wrist and tell them to behave ?

tcs : "Andrew Ritchey has said the Brompton factory can produce 40,000 bikes a year."

Well for all their faults they make 40,000 and sell them all at list price, Tern on the other hand, introduced to the UK market 2-3 months back, is already being discounted on the shop floor in London.

A Big Bicycle Company will step in and do what - give Brompton a slap on the wrist and tell them to behave ?


The Brompton price tag is largely dependent on the unique fold, that market position allows them to skimp on other areas. The price has gotten so high & the design isn't protected by patents so there's room for direct competitors who can produce potentially a better product at a lower cost. Then Brompton would have the option, for starters, of not charging £30 for the cheapest handlebar it's possible to make, and not putting a £20 price tag on a bottom bracket that elsewhere retails for half that, so as to become more competitive.

Mezzo's look very nice but the fold doesn't allow for the functional versatility that the Brompton has due largely to the luggage system.