Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - That new Ultegra 12-30 cassette

I posted my experience in the 41, but we all know what happens there. It probably would have been better to post it here. This is just a short note for those of use who need a little bit of extra help getting up those hills.

Briefly, the new Shimano Ultegra 12-30 CS-6700 cassette is available. My shop ordered two and I pick up one of them tomorrow. I had to ask, and it helped that one of his suppliers were in the shop at the time. Might pick up both of the ones he ordered.

Earlier this week, as a test, I fitted a Tiagra 12-30 on my Dura-Ace 7900 rig and it works just fine. I'm running a compact on the front and up until now, a 12-28 on the rear. I did not have to add any links to the chain and the short cage RD handles the extra two teeth okay. Note: Shimano says that this combination won't work, so I can't guarantee that it will work on your setup. I just know that it works on mine and that I will welcome that extra gearing when I hit those 9-11% grades. Mount Baldy Ski Lifts ... here I come.

Posted just for info. More details in my post in the 41 if you're interested.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I usually do ok with my Ultegra setup with 50/34 and 12-28 but occasionally when the hills get real steep I'd like another gear! I might have to try it out and see if it will work. I thought about going SRAM Apex for the 12-32 but I don't like the way SRAM shifters work compared to Shimano.

Thanks for the info. It's good to know.

if only I could get one by tomorrow!

My crazy wife just signed me up for our second metric, and this one has 5300 feet of elevation gain....and its saturday morning...oh my aching legs

Good to know, thanks for the info. I usually do ok with my Ultegra setup with 50/34 and 12-28 but occasionally when the hills get real steep I'd like another gear! I might have to try it out and see if it will work. I thought about going SRAM Apex for the 12-32 but I don't like the way SRAM shifters work compared to Shimano.


You can probably use that SRAM cassette with your current setup... many of Shimano's and SRAM's parts are fairly interchangeable. Depending on your rear derailleur, you may have no issues at all. Worst case, you'd need a derailleur with a longer cage, but you shouldn't need to change your shifter at all.

You can probably use that SRAM cassette with your current setup... many of Shimano's and SRAM's parts are fairly interchangeable. Depending on your rear derailleur, you may have no issues at all. Worst case, you'd need a derailleur with a longer cage, but you shouldn't need to change your shifter at all.

+1
What you will need to watch for are chain length and cage length. A SRAM cassette will play nice with Shimano, (both 10 spd. of course).

yes but with a full ultegra compact setup, I dont think you can simply swap over to a pg 1070 1032 cassette can you? And I know I cant use a sram RD with the shimano brifters so then that means going to some sort of shimano long cage or MTB RD I suppose and if I had to do all that, I would just get a wifli force group and be done with it.

So hoping the ultegra cassette will work fine with my existing setup

I have been looking into this set up for my wife, good to hear positive feedback on it. Right now I have a 12-27 with a compact 50/34 which I can make work on every hill that I have tried, but the Mrs. might need a little more gearing. I will have to get a newer 105 rear derailleur and Tiagra cassette to see if she can pull up some of our hills around here.

yes but with a full ultegra compact setup, I dont think you can simply swap over to a pg 1070 1032 cassette can you?

Why not? The parts are compatible. Whether your RD can handle the increased tooth count is another story but you can swap Shimano and SRAM chain parts.


And I know I cant use a sram RD with the shimano brifters so then that means going to some sort of shimano long cage or MTB RD I suppose and if I had to do all that, I would just get a wifli force group and be done with it.

RDs are pretty cheap compared to a whole group.

Earlier this week, as a test, I fitted a Tiagra 12-30 on my Dura-Ace 7900 rig and it works just fine. I'm running a compact on the front and up until now, a 12-28 on the rear. I did not have to add any links to the chain and the short cage RD handles the extra two teeth okay. Note: Shimano says that this combination won't work, so I can't guarantee that it will work on your setup. I just know that it works on mine and that I will welcome that extra gearing when I hit those 9-11% grades. Mount Baldy Ski Lifts ... here I come.



I run the (5700?) 105 setup which was equipped with a 11-25 cassette. I tried to install the Tiagra 12-30 and my short cage 105 RD jockey wheel would not clear beyond a 28T. Shimano says that the short cage will not work past 27T, so I installed a Tiagra mid (long) cage RD in order to accommodate it. My understanding is that the new 105 is made with a longer cage, and will.

Neat. When I was having my new bike built up in November, I originally specced it out with the 12-30 cassette. The bike shop however convinced me to go with 11-34 instead. While the gears are further apart, it's turned out to be a rather good decision, because there's many hills around here that I just can't get up without the 24/34 low gear. I shudder to think how I'd hurt myself trying 24/30.

I think maybe when my weight drops to 300-325 I'll switch out to 12-30. We'll see. I miss the 1-tooth differences of my old 12-27, but I could never do hills on that bike.

yes but with a full ultegra compact setup, I dont think you can simply swap over to a pg 1070 1032 cassette can you?

Yes, you can. That's what I was explaining above. The only "iffy" part of the deal might be your rear derailleur, if it has a short cage. Your shifter does not matter in this case.

It takes less than 5 minutes to change a cassette. Nothing wrong with putting on a MTB RD, sizing the chain for the largest cog you'll be using and swapping cassettes depending on the ride. Wouldn't do it every day, but I've got an 11-32 on my single and I'd be fine with a 12-27 for anything but a climbing ride.

Yes, you can. That's what I was explaining above. The only "iffy" part of the deal might be your rear derailleur, if it has a short cage. Your shifter does not matter in this case.


I suppose I am still not getting it. Ae there more than one type of ultegra 6700 rd? Is there a short cage and a long cage? Or are you saying if the stock(assuming there is only one kind) ultegra rd won't work, then I have to go to some sort of shimano mtb rd? If so which one would that be that will work with the rest of my setup?

I suppose I am still not getting it. Ae there more than one type of ultegra 6700 rd? Is there a short cage and a long cage? Or are you saying if the stock(assuming there is only one kind) ultegra rd won't work, then I have to go to some sort of shimano mtb rd? If so which one would that be that will work with the rest of my setup?

Yes, there are two different RD-6700 models, (not counting the two colors). They are speced as: RD-6700 SS, (short cage), and RD-6700 GS, (long cage). When you see "RD-6700" by itself, that is the silver version, when you see "RD-6700-G", that is the "glossy gray" version. The SS versions says that the total capacity is 33 teeth or less, the largest sprocket is 28T, the smallest sprocket is 11T, and the front chainwheel tooth difference of 16 teeth or less. For the GS version, 39, 28T, 11T, and 22. The long cage is usually used with their 6703 triple crankset.

Do a Google search for "Shimano technical documents" and that will direct you to all kinds of tech docs for their product line. For Ultegra, they have docs for the 65xx, 66x, and 67xx series.

- - - - -

To others, I picked up my 12-30 CS-6700 on Friday. Installed it on my wheel, but haven't had a chance to ride the bike as I'm changing rear tires and got involved in taking all the cassettes off my bikes, taking them apart and cleaning them in mineral spirits. I took pictures side-by-side between the 12-30 and 12-28. It is surprising to see how different they are. There are no technical documents inside. Just some one-page warning to not disassemble or modify the cassette. Now, how stupid is it to say something like that? Pictures to follow after I get everything up and running.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I usually do ok with my Ultegra setup with 50/34 and 12-28 but occasionally when the hills get real steep I'd like another gear! I might have to try it out and see if it will work. I thought about going SRAM Apex for the 12-32 but I don't like the way SRAM shifters work compared to Shimano.

Have you done any extensive riding with the SRAM DoubleTap? It took me a couple rides to get used to my Rival levers, but the quick crisp actuation of the shifts is hard to overlook. If i hop on a friends bike with a Shimano group (even DA or Ult), i hate it. Yeah, its "smooth", but at the expense of speed and feedback.

I will say that Shimanos front shifting is better, however.

yes but with a full ultegra compact setup, I dont think you can simply swap over to a pg 1070 1032 cassette can you? And I know I cant use a sram RD with the shimano brifters so then that means going to some sort of shimano long cage or MTB RD I suppose and if I had to do all that, I would just get a wifli force group and be done with it.

So hoping the ultegra cassette will work fine with my existing setup

You can swap cassettes, chains between SRAM and Shimano just fine. SRAM builds their components to Shimano spec. So they will work fine. Any SRAM or Shimano road chainring/crank will also work with either brands chains and cassettes. Of course, same for same always works a little better, but not always. (for example i prefer a Shimano chain on my SRAM groupo)

What you cant mix, is shifters to derailleurs. Shimano uses a 2:1 pull ratio on their cable, and SRAM uses a 1:1 pull ratio. You can, through some creative adjustment, use a Shimano front derailleur with a SRAM shifter, but its not perfect.

Also in the case of using a Shimano mountain rear derailleur, not all of the Shimano MTB stuff uses the same pull length. Some of them actually use SRAMS 1:1 cable ratio. :lol: If you get the right MTB RD that works with your shifters, there will be no issues using the larger Wi-Fli SRAM cassettes.

But alot of the Shimano medium/short cage road RD's only have, i believe, a 27 tooth limit (sorry, didnt see this had already been discussed at the time of typing). So a 12-28 cassette might be a little to close for comfort. Technically it SHOULD be able to work. But there are some vital hinging and geometry differences with SRAM and Shimanos derailleur cages that allow the SRAM cage to not lunch its bogie wheel into the cassette itself. Which is an almost certainty on the older Shimano components. (Again, didnt see this had been discussed until after i typed, but at least its confirmed for you now)

Either way, there should be a cheaper alternative (i.e. getting a compatible Shimano MTB RD for less then $100) to get you into a Wi-Fli cassette, or similar shimano MTB gearing, then having to spring for an upgrade set of group components. (I.E. shifter, cassette, RD, possibly FD, and about $350 out of your wallet)

Thanks for the info. Today, I found an LBS that also just got two and I grabbed one to replace my 11-28 CS-5700. I have an RD-5700 and it shifts just fine after a turn of the adjuster barrel. The 11-28 didn't have a spacer installed (maybe because I lost it after switching it on so many wheels), but I installed the 12-30 with its spacer265372.

...I have an RD-5700 and it shifts just fine after a turn of the adjuster barrel...

It's good to get independent verification. The 12-30 could become a game-changer for Shimano ... once they get units out into the marketplace. Most shops are not very well informed and so far, all have doubted it even exists ... until I show them the spec sheet or actually show them my bike with one installed.

As an update...I've been running the Ultegra 12-30 for awhile now, and LOVE it! Most of the time, I don't need that 30t sprocket, but just knowing it is there give me confidence to tackle any hill I come across. When I do elect to use it, it allows me to maintain a much quicker cadence than I would be able to maintain otherwise. Also, I got a BG Fit about a week ago today, and the fit tech removed one link on my chain after the fit. At first he didn't believe that I can run a 12-30 with my mid-cage Dura-Ace RD, but when I showed him during the fit ... well? What could he say. He removed the link to allow smoother shifting. Who woulda thunk?

Thanks for the info. Today, I found an LBS that also just got two and I grabbed one to replace my 11-28 CS-5700. I have an RD-5700 and it shifts just fine after a turn of the adjuster barrel. The 11-28 didn't have a spacer installed (maybe because I lost it after switching it on so many wheels), but I installed the 12-30 with its spacer265372.

Thats...impressive.

As an update...I've been running the Ultegra 12-30 for awhile now, and LOVE it! Most of the time, I don't need that 30t sprocket, but just knowing it is there give me confidence to tackle any hill I come across. When I do elect to use it, it allows me to maintain a much quicker cadence than I would be able to maintain otherwise.

I went and "tested" the cassette on a route w/ 4000+ ft. of climbing (Tour de Peninsula). The cassette gave me no issues whatsoever, even under load going uphill (of course, I wasn't standing, sprinting and shifting uphill). At one point, I was on the 50 ring and shifted to the 30 cog without realizing it. When I saw it, I had an "oh crap" moment and shifted up to the 27 cog (50-30 would probably work fine, but wasn't going to chance it). On the descents, I miss having an 11 cog, but it's worth the tradeoff.

Came across this thread through a Google search. Very informative. My current setup is an older Ultegra 6600 Group with short cage rear derailleur, Shimano 50-34 chain set and 12-27 cassette. I bought it new and have upgraded as parts have worn. About ready to replace cassette and chain due to wear and would like to go with the new 12-30 cassette. So the question, all things equal, by upgrading to the RD 6700 SS rear derailleur, the 12-30 cassette will work fine without any real world issues or do I need to look into a MTB read derailleur?

Thanks in advance!

tc

tc, about your specific situation, I can't really say. On my two Ultegra triple bikes, I have the GS RD, and on the D/A bike, it is a mid-cage, (the only way it comes). If you could see a 7900 D/A RD side-by-side with an Ultegra SS RD, then that would be a good indicator. So far, no negative issues on either my GS or D/A rigs. I do miss that 11t on occasion, but gladly give that up for some help when the road tilts up.

Edsplace - if I'm not mistaken, the indexing is in the shifter, not the rear DR, so you might need to replace that too. The spacing between cassettes on the new 10 speed ultegra is narrower and I'm really not sure if you could switch out the spacers and ditch one cog to make it work. If you take your question over to the bike mechanics forum there's probably somebody who would know for sure.

Came across this thread through a Google search. Very informative. My current setup is an older Ultegra 6600 Group with short cage rear derailleur, Shimano 50-34 chain set and 12-27 cassette. I bought it new and have upgraded as parts have worn. About ready to replace cassette and chain due to wear and would like to go with the new 12-30 cassette. So the question, all things equal, by upgrading to the RD 6700 SS rear derailleur, the 12-30 cassette will work fine without any real world issues or do I need to look into a MTB read derailleur?

Thanks in advance!

tc



I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly... are you upgrading the cassette, or derailleur, or both? At any rate, I'd suspect that your road rear der will work with 30 teeth. That would probably be the limit for a short cage, I'm thinking.

A mtb. derailleur won't be necessary.

You shouldn't need a new shifter.

Interesting note, there is a new Ultegra derailleur showing with compatibility for this cassette, the rd-6700A

I have a 2011 Madone with the 5700 group:

SHIFTERS / Shimano 105 STI, 10 speed
FRONT DERAILLEUR / Shimano 105
REAR DERAILLEUR / Shimano 105
CASSETTE / Shimano 105 11-28, 10 speed
CRANK / Shimano 105, 50/34

What would I need to change to get lower gearing?

I have the 12-30.

Works Great with no other changes needed.
You won't miss the 11 cog.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/cassettes-cassettes-shimano-10-speed-tiagra-4600-cassette/shimcass926

There is an existing mid cage and short cage rd on 2012 bikes or before in ultegra (perhaps 105 as well)

my understanding is the short cage won't handle the 12-30

i was fortunate to have the medium cage but even so my chain was extremely tight when I installed the 12-30. I really should have had an extra link.

honestly I switched back to a 11-28. So...ymmv

the difference is not as profound as you may expect.

I have the 12-30.

Works Great with no other changes needed.
You won't miss the 11 cog.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/cassettes-cassettes-shimano-10-speed-tiagra-4600-cassette/shimcass926

Mine has the 105 short dérailleur. It works fine.....

Mine has the 105 short dérailleur. It works fine.....

Did you have to change the chain out?

Did you have to change the chain out?

No other changes needed.

Just swap the cassettes.

The general consensus is that you can go 1-2 teeth larger than the rated capacity of a Shimano rear derailleur. The 2012 Shimano 105 rear derailleur is officially rated for a 30T low gear so you could probably run a 12-32 cassette no problem on the newest 105 stuff.

Bumping an old-ish thread, but how do I tell if I've got a 2011 or 2012 105 derailleur? Where do I look on it? (I'm sure it's a short-cage.) Sounds like I probably could coax it to take 12-30 whichever I have, but I'm curious if I could get a 12-32 on it at all. I'm not sure if I want to switch up my gearing; I'm still getting back in shape, and I might be OK with my 50/34 x 11-28 eventually, and I do use the 11t. But it's also not that hard to change cassettes, so if it'd take them both, I could swap depending on what I'm riding.

Bumping an old-ish thread, but how do I tell if I've got a 2011 or 2012 105 derailleur? Where do I look on it? (I'm sure it's a short-cage.) Sounds like I probably could coax it to take 12-30 whichever I have, but I'm curious if I could get a 12-32 on it at all. I'm not sure if I want to switch up my gearing; I'm still getting back in shape, and I might be OK with my 50/34 x 11-28 eventually, and I do use the 11t. But it's also not that hard to change cassettes, so if it'd take them both, I could swap depending on what I'm riding.

I went through a similar deal last year. I live in a pretty hilly area and got tired of struggling on hills using my Roubaix 27T. I 'upgraded' the derailleur, chain and cassette to take a 36T. I have to say it was a little more involved than I expected BUT it is a huge difference for climbing. I did have a couple of chain drops in the miles since the thread but I don't think Id go back to 27T.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/794665-I-want-to-switch-out-my-cassette-for-climbing-advice-please?highlight=magohn+sram

Just adding my 2c as a positive vote for making hills 'easier' by switching out your cassette. However, I like to tinker so unless you DIY, it could get pricey. :)

how do I tell if I've got a 2011 or 2012 105 derailleur?

It's almost certainly the same year of your bike unless you bought it separately.

I have both the 28 and 30 cassettes on my wheels, so I now have almost an entire summer of riding on them. I just dont see all that much difference in them when riding. yes it is some, but honestly I dont seem to miss it all that much when i am on the 28. All I mean is if you are looking for night and day dont waste your money, if you need "just a little bit more" to get by the 12-30 may be enough.

I suppose this is the correct thread to gush about my hill-climbing setup:

24t small chainring on a triple crank
11-36 cassette with a long-cage derailleur and the b-screw flipped

i can barely maintain 3.5 mph on flat ground. and that's about how fast I went up Mt. Washington. but I made it at #270

It's almost certainly the same year of your bike unless you bought it separately.

It's a custom, built this past (2012) August. The shop that built it would know, but I wanted to figure out how much I might be getting myself into changing before I took it in. They were right that the compact and 11-28 gave me as much as my old bike's triple, but I'm so much happier on it that I'm looking at more ambitious rides. :)

I just need a little more for what I want to do right now, but then I look at descriptions like mtalinm's and want something like that to try to bike the Kanc. Even though I hate hills.

Which means I think I should leave it as-is for now and train, and see how much more I want after the summer.