Classic & Vintage - Me an' Bikeman had a big fight!

The other day, Bikemanbob and I were discussing strategies for how to best market flips on the local CL...

One of us very rudely and crudely asserted that always using the same recognizable backdrop in pictures pegs you as a dirty flipper, and is not conducive to sales since many prospective customers think of flippers in the same vein as used car salesman and lawyers. :mad:

The other one of us very tactfully and intelligently pointed out that having a recognizable personna on CL actually helps sales - particularly as one who stands by his work, and who has labored to build a good reputation for selling good quality bikes at a fair price. :thumb:

- I won't tell you which side I was on ;), but I do need your help to settle this argument: Vote in the poll, and then tell us what you think.

IBTL. I voted to vary the background, despite the fact that I never vary the background for my CL bike images. Why add inconvenience of gathering CL photos on top of all of life's other challenges? I failed my logic final.

IBTL? - I don't think the mods will lock the thread as it is very much tongue in cheek.

I voted to keep BG the same, but I should qualify that...

The quality of the posting (writing, thoroughness) and photo should be as high as possible. Consistently bad / low-quality posts make you look shady. Consistently good / high-quality posts build people's confidence your "brand" and should help you in the long run.

Whose tongue in whose cheek, is what I want to know.

Edit: never mind, I don't want to know.

I think less of the two local flippers who always have the same background

If you have the skills, why not flip? I bought my son's BMX bike from a flipper and the improvements he made were worth the price increase. Some of his stuff I would never buy, but I trust his work so the right bike at the right price works for me. He knows what he is doing and when I see his stuff, I know it will be as advertised and work well.
I think if you have a good rep, why try to hide it by posting bikes in different backgrounds? That seems a bit shadier to me(being a non-flipper & layperson)

There's one guy here, Joel, that always has the same outdoor background; and I think it works well for him.

If you're selling good bikes at a fair price - keep and build your rep. If you're just DKO'ing, vary it.

I think both ways presents good arguments/theories to support one way over the other but, have you ever considered that buyers might be split down the middle on how they react to the two different ways to present bikes for sale in pics?
I think it's mostly a waste of time to argue about it and just do what feels comfortable or convenient to you as a seller.

Chombi

http://www.TorontoVintageBikes.com


This is our website, we do keep all our backgrounds the same due to the flow of the bikes for sale section and when we post on craigslist then people will notice that it is us.

We do overhauls to bikes to make them run great and awesome again.

The cool part is that is you check the bikes for sale section you can see the season change and the plants grow and loose leaves as you go deeper into the section.

I've never sold a bike to the same person twice so I see no reason for establishing a persona on CL. I think sellers are better off listing items as a personal -from owner-to buyer transaction because people feel like they're getting a better deal if there's no middle man involved. As with used car salesmen, you know they paid less for the car than you're going to so you can't help but wonder if you're getting a good deal.
If you can guarantee the quality of the bikes and can offer some sort of reasonable maintenance plan than go ahead and establish yourself as a bike salesman. You may be able to get more money for your bikes but you'll likely get less interest.

Very funny thread Title! I didn't know that my forum name was going to be in the title, but I'm pleased. I got a great laugh.

As can be guessed, I like similiar backgrounds. It helps people recognize my work. Thankfully, I get a number of positive emails and thanks for making CL interesting. It might be harder for people if the background varies.

However, I have changed the backgrounds in 2 listings because I was getting bored with the photos.

I beg you to vote in favor of similiar backgrounds. Auchen will never let me hear the end of it!

Here is my typical listing with the swing in the background:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad253/bikemanbob/my%20touring%20bikes/DSCN1414.jpg

.....

I beg you to vote in favor of similiar backgrounds. Auchen will never let me hear the end of it!....

DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!
Vote for dissimilar backgrounds! Because - um, er, it's truth, justice and the American way!

IBTL? - I don't think the mods will lock the thread as it is very much tongue in cheek.

I'll take bribes, from either side...... :)

When I was flipping hard, I always tore every bike down and cleaned/rebuilt/replaced consumables like tires and cables before putting up on CL. I was able to easily get top dollar for all my flips, as I had a reputation. And part of that positive visibility was that I always used the same background, and that usually involved the bike in question up on a maintenance stand to add visual authority the text describing what had been done to make the bike ready. Doing so allowed folks to recognize me in the CL clutter.

Not just my opinion.... I was told that several times as the cash exchanged hands. Word of mouth, folks.... it's out there. People who are looking for bikes have friends with similar interests/needs. And when they're happy, they tell folks. And those folks look for your ads, or else get your email and contact you directly.

If you're doing it right, make yourself easy to identify.

When I was flipping hard, I always tore every bike down and cleaned/rebuilt/replaced consumables like tires and cables before putting up on CL. I was able to easily get top dollar for all my flips, as I had a reputation. And part of that positive visibility was that I always used the same background........ it allowed folks to recognize me in the CL clutter.

Not just my opinion.... I was told that several times as the cash exchanged hands. Word of mouth, folks.... it's out there. People who are looking for bikes have friends with similar interests/needs. And when they're happy, they tell folks. And those folks look for your ads, or else get your email and contact you directly.

If you're doing it right, make yourself easy to identify.

Yes! Bigbossman has got it right!

I think, ultimately, the bike is going to sell itself. You ad, description and photos will determine how it sells and there are merits to both approaches. I voted separate backgrounds because I think the CL police cadets are more likely to harass you if they identify you as a flipper. I don't think that crowd actually buys bikes anyway, so their opinion doesn't count, except that they can, and will, flag ads, whine, etc.

Usually I'm selling the mid-range stuff on CL and putting the exotic stuff on eBay...most of the folks buying mid-range aren't checking CL religiously so they won't notice something like this - unless you have a ton of bikes up at once. Rep won't matter. If you have enough bikes up for it to matter for the casual viewer, I'd want separate backgrounds as I do think the used car salesman view has weight.

The folks who can identify your ads by a background over time are other flippers and bike weirdos - and they rarely actually pay enough to care regardless. Just as a general thing, I'd rather them not be able to identify me as a "that guy".

My view might be weighed because I typically don't flip regularly or have enough bikes where a friend telling a friend is going to benefit me. I get good prices and fast sales because:

1. I live in the right area - that makes ALL the difference.
2. I include descriptions of who I think the bike is best for and what qualities it has.
3. I give an accurate, detailed description including any potential issues the bike has.
4. I ask for reasonable prices, maybe a little towards the higher end.
5. I speak and negotiate well - no one wants to pick up the phone and talk to someone who doesn't present well. No one wants an email from a guy typing in all caps or with every other word misspelled. Language skills and communication are VITAL for sales.

Yes! Bigbossman has got it right!

All I can say is that it worked so well for me that it funded all my bikes and all my tools, and then some. Towards the end, I wasn't advertising much any more.... folks were getting my email from their friends who had bought a bike from me, and I was being contacted directly.

I got real tired of doing it though, so when I got my last bike built (the De Rosa), I "retired". I haven't built a bike for resale in about 2 years.

Yes! Bigbossman has got it right!

Yeah sure - he also said he's amenable to taking bribes. :lol:

I think, ultimately, the bike is going to sell itself. You ad, description and photos will determine how it sells and there are merits to both approaches. I voted separate backgrounds because I think the CL police cadets are more likely to harass you if they identify you as a flipper. I don't think that crowd actually buys bikes anyway, so their opinion doesn't count, except that they can, and will, flag ads, whine, etc.

Usually I'm selling the mid-range stuff on CL and putting the exotic stuff on eBay...most of the folks buying mid-range aren't checking CL religiously so they won't notice something like this - unless you have a ton of bikes up at once. Rep won't matter. If you have enough bikes up for it to matter for the casual viewer, I'd want separate backgrounds as I do think the used car salesman view has weight.

The folks who can identify your ads by a background over time are other flippers and bike weirdos - and they rarely actually pay enough to care regardless. Just as a general thing, I'd rather them not be able to identify me as a "that guy".

My view might be weighed because I typically don't flip regularly or have enough bikes where a friend telling a friend is going to benefit me. I get good prices and fast salkes because:

1. I live in the right area - that makes ALL the difference.
2. I include descriptions of who I think the bike is best for and what qualities it has.
3. I give an accurate, detailed description including any potential issues the bike has.
4. I ask for reasonable prices, maybe a little towards the higher end.
5. I speak and negotiate well - no one wants to pick up the phone and talk to someone who doesn't present well. No one wants an email from a guy typing in all caps or with every other word misspelled. Language skills and communication are VITAL for sales.

Yes! Aaron got it right! :thumb: (And I didn't even have to pay him. :))

Yeah sure - he also said he's amenable to taking bribes. :lol:

No paypal funds were transferred in securing Bigbossman's positive remarks! :innocent: He requires money orders!

Yeah sure - he also said he's amenable to taking bribes. :lol:

Ya know, impugning my character could be construed as a personal insult, and subject to disciplinary action. Are you looking for some discipline? I went Catholic School..... I know all about the subject. :D

YOu didn't see my fee via PM? ;)

Ya know, impugning my character could be construed as a personal insult, and subject to disciplinary action. Are you looking for some discipline? I went Catholic School..... I know all about the subject. :D

It has to be untrue for it to be libelous...you have no defense!

Ya know, impugning my character could be construed as a personal insult, and subject to disciplinary action. Are you looking for some discipline? I went Catholic School..... I know all about the subject. :D

T'ain't got nuttin on me - I went to skool wid Sista' bloody Mary of the busted ruler. ;)

YOu didn't see my fee via PM? ;)

Shhhh!

We have a local flipper called the Porch Man, because all of his bikes are featured on his porch.
He buys the trade-ins and does a rehab and tuneup, and cleans them very well, and resells them.

Once in a while he gets screamed at by the CL self-righteous so-called bike sales police, but his bikes are clean and he offers a warranty.
I think his porch, once he got well known, helped in his sales.

bigbossman is right, word of mouth, etc, and don't understimate bike shop employees plugging your stuff when out of the owner's earshot.

I haven't decided on how to vote, and I know, I know, "bad bike flippers are elected by good cyclists who don't vote," as Jefferson said, thereabouts....

One of us very rudely and crudely asserted that always using the same recognizable backdrop in pictures pegs you as a dirty flipper...

The general public can't tell one white garage door from another.

;)

-Kurt

The more I think about this, the more I think the disadvantages of the local CL gestapo far outweigh any advantages to an easily ID'd background. Word of mouth will help either way - John who bought a bike from you is going to say "Oh, he lives near Bingo Farm, here's his email address". He's probably unlikely to say just look for the ads with the stone gargoyle in them...you're assuming John ever noticed that to begin with! Your network doesn't require the same white fence...but the jerks will notice it.

It has to be untrue for it to be libelous...you have no defense!

And yet another addition to my hit-list......

bigbossman is right...

No further questions.

And possible signature materiel.

Actually, if you use a similiar background on your CL photos, I would appreciate seeing them. They might be helpful. I've already shown one of mine. Thanks.

I've been mostly staying off the local CL because the market is flat for anything over $150. At that price point it's not worth my time or effort to take pics--regardless of which beautiful and varied setting I choose to use in my wife's magnificent yard--put up a post and then have to deal with the moronic CL bike nazis. People who know what I have to sell share my contact info, I have a pretty regular base of repeat customers, and like Robbie mentioned, local wrenchers have been known to pass my name on to folks looking for what shops don't sell. Besides, we all know that not only does it taste great, it's less filling!!

http://www.TorontoVintageBikes.com


This is our website, we do keep all our backgrounds the same due to the flow of the bikes for sale section and when we post on craigslist then people will notice that it is us.

We do overhauls to bikes to make them run great and awesome again.

The cool part is that is you check the bikes for sale section you can see the season change and the plants grow and loose leaves as you go deeper into the section.


TVB, I see your posts on CL all the time. I guess people are buying, but hot damn are your bikes overpriced. $460 for an Exage equipped Miele. Yeah it's in nice condition, but it probably didn't even cost that much brand new!

I voted keep the background the same, but not for the reason listed. When I bought the bike that I bought on CL, I looked at a number of bikes in my price range and size, but never once paid attention to the background. I dealt with one guy who I'm pretty sure was a thief (didn't buy from him), and another nice guy I bought from. I'm not sure how I would have felt if I'd known he was a flipper (turns out he did flip bikes as he told my wife while I was test riding). On one hand, I would have liked knowing if he knew what he was doing wrt maintenance of the bike, but I would have thought if I'd bought it from whoever he'd gotten it from I would have gotten a better deal. Anyway, I don't pay enough attention to background for it to matter and I think most shoppers are like me. In that case, there's probably one background that's the most convenient for you to use, so why not use what's convenient rather than making extra work for yourself trying to find new backgrounds?

All I can say is that it worked so well for me that it funded all my bikes and all my tools, and then some. Towards the end, I wasn't advertising much any more.... folks were getting my email from their friends who had bought a bike from me, and I was being contacted directly.

I got real tired of doing it though, so when I got my last bike built (the De Rosa), I "retired". I haven't built a bike for resale in about 2 years.

I retired about the same time.

I just didn't have enough free time for myself.

I ended up filling the tires of everybody's bicycles in a one block radius.

I ended up becoming a mini bicycle shop out of our garage.

Even my boys got involved for a while!

At this point, all of our extra time is spent on the water.

I just signed papers for a rather large sailboat that I will assume suck up time like no tomorrow.

The bike collecting swan song is at hand though anyway, as my spouse finally got through to me that I don't need 15-20 nice bicycles.

But I can have 5-6 really, really nice bikes. :)

In that case, there's probably one background that's the most convenient for you to use, so why not use what's convenient rather than making extra work for yourself trying to find new backgrounds?

Although not stated, it is very true of me! My background is 10 ft out my front door.

I have a slightly different approach to this than most. I take pics in front of several backrops and see which ones look best. The surprising thing is I mostly use pics from the same place because they look the best. I think better looking pics matter more than anything on this one.

:wtf:..................................... Man, I did not know that.
Thanks for the heads up. All I do is buy stuff.................:o

:wtf:..................................... Man, I did not know that.
Thanks for the heads up. All I do is buy stuff.................:o

I donno, I think it can be harder then it sounds. However selling does make more room for buying.

Actually, if you use a similiar background on your CL photos, I would appreciate seeing them. They might be helpful. I've already shown one of mine. Thanks.
Ok as asked for

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/1980%20Nishiki/DSC00416.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/Fuji%202/DSC00612.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/Gitane%20531/Gitane%20Small/DSC00378.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/ITOH%202/DSC00587.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/Royal%20Crown/DSC00249.jpg

I like this spot background everything looks great and its twenty feet from my home.

The backdrops are only part of a flipper's "signature". Even if you vary it, we still know your dirty little secret.

I guess I think of flippers as getting neglected, underisable stuff, putting it together with the cheapest, what-ever is around parts, making it look nicer ("polishing a turd" if you will) and selling it off.

I know that are those who actually do a great job, but since there is less profit in doing a job well with high qualty parts, I suspect the good guys are few.

Therefore I wouldn't want to be pegged as a flipper. I'm not sure that the average CL shopper (myself included) has done the research or has the feedback to know who is good and who is bad.

I guess I think of flippers as getting neglected, underisable stuff, putting it together with the cheapest, what-ever is around parts, making it look nicer ("polishing a turd" if you will) and selling it off.

I know that are those who actually do a great job, but since there is less profit in doing a job well with high qualty parts, I suspect the good guys are few.

Therefore I wouldn't want to be pegged as a flipper. I'm not sure that the average CL shopper (myself included) has done the research or has the feedback to know who is good and who is bad.

Than they should buy new. Frankly the expectations of many would be used bicycle shoppers are unrealistic - their perceived value of bicycles is often informed by Target and asking for $200 on a decent used bike seems extravagant. They don't understand that decent tires are $40...they don't understand that new housings, cables and brake pads cost money. If you want a new bike, buy one. If you want a used bike like new, be prepared to pay for it.

http://www.TorontoVintageBikes.com


This is our website, we do keep all our backgrounds the same due to the flow of the bikes for sale section and when we post on craigslist then people will notice that it is us.

We do overhauls to bikes to make them run great and awesome again.

The cool part is that is you check the bikes for sale section you can see the season change and the plants grow and loose leaves as you go deeper into the section.

Sweet website, very organized and simple.

Ok as asked for

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/zukahn2/1980%20Nishiki/DSC00416.jpg

I like this spot background everything looks great and its twenty feet from my home.

Thanks! Very nice bikes! Like your wall, my swing is my signature!

On my CL, there was a battle a couple months ago between 2 flippers where they would each flag each others ads. They would also put up ads up stating don't buy from the guy that shows bikes in front of that fence that has green moss on it.

I agree buyers might like a constant but mixing things up keeps away the CL police that flags all your bikes because you are selling that old 70's Schwinn for $200 and it is only worth $10.

My backgrounds were various curb views on my circle with the occasional garage door. I also used detailed big pictures and close-ups to show off the superior condition of my bikes. I was recently flagged for posting a higher priced chrome Paramount - and some of the reasons were the big pictures and outside links. I've taken to mostly using the CL picture facility and sticking more to my garage door background.

BBM, is, of course, correct.

If you intend to move bikes along, a reputation is the best thing you can have. I once had someone drive through my neighborhood looking for my usual backdrop. I would give my general area in my ads.

I quit flipping a few years ago, but flipped hundreds of bikes, and like BBM, financed my tools and stable though flipping. One year I had a waiting list without even advertising, all word of mouth from previous customers.

One word of recommendation for the OP and his friend, do not make your location so easily identifiable. I see a readable street sign in the 'go to' picture, and a local thief could easily find the exact house without too much trouble.

I've never lost a bike, and had a few dropped off in my yard for free, but there are bad people out there. Blur the street sign.

My vote is to make yourself identifiable, but not down to the corner you live on.

Yikes, BBM's endorsement has changed the tides. When I checked earlier it was deadlocked at like 15-15 or something...now the "same background" crowd is running away with it.

I want to change my vote!!