Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - FG newb. Sore legs. Help?

Title says it all.
Obvious answer is "ride more" or "give your legs time to adjust" but I'm wondering what I can do to help strengthen my legs when I'm not riding.
I'm setup for 69.3 gear inches, so I'm not using a real heavy gearing or anything. I guess I'm just getting used to resisting the pedals and constantly pedalling.

*Did a quick search of the forum but mostly only found threads about knee pain. I have no knee pain, just overall stiffness and muscle soreness.

**I'm in pretty good shape. Ran two 50km races last fall, most recent footrace was just a 10 mile last month but yeah, not like I'm going from couch to FG or anything.

Yep, its just that you're using different muscles or the same muscles in a different way/ratio so:
rule 5 (http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/)

hahaha alright, fair enough

...I'm wondering what I can do to help strengthen my legs when I'm not riding.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Squat.png

That's what I do.



Also: stretch

Yep, its just that you're using different muscles or the same muscles in a different way/ratio so:
rule 5 (http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/)

These are cycling fanboy rules.

I'm not sure that rule 5 doesn't apply to everything though. The rest of them you can take or leave.

Yeah "toughen up" is the universal answer to all problems. Used quite frequently way back in the day, and not frequently enough nowadays.
:thumb:

@Carleton- thanks. I have no weights to do squats with but I will figure something out, and stretching also seems like a very good idea. I get a lot of stares from around the office while I stretch at my desk but whatever... theys just jealous.

I run and bike. My muscles get sore differently when I do either or. Maybe someone here with an indepth knowledge of human anatomy can give a more proper answer, but my experience bring me to the following conclusion: you are using your muscles a little bit differently when biking or jogging.
From all of my experience in fitness I must say the following: soreness in muscles is a Good thing. If your muscles are not sore - you are not pushing yourself hard enough. If you want your muscles to recover faster: drink protein. And like Carleton said: always stretch.

Keep riding!

Thanks broakland. I do have some whey protein at home, and I'm actually downing a clif protein/builder bar as I type this.
Makes sense - different activities, different muscle groups.
And the legs are a "good" sore at this point. A dull, satisfying sore.

When does everyone stretch, before, middle or after exercising?

I've read conflicting information on the optimal time to stretch. I find myself stretching after hitting the gym, and stretching both before and after hopping on the bike.

With running, it's far more important to stretch afterwards. Stretching beforehand is actually a good way to injure yourself. Some light stretching beforehand might be okay if you really feel you must, but it's best to use caution as your muscles are not warmed up yet.
But that's just with running. I don't know very much about biking yet, hence this thread.

I'm not sure that rule 5 doesn't apply to everything though. The rest of them you can take or leave.

Work smarter, not harder.

HTFU isn't the answer to every training problem. This problem in particular could be:
- Overreaching
- Over training
- Inadequate nutrition
- Inadequate hydration
- Inadequate flexibility

It takes about 10-14 days for the body to adjust to a new physical routine. This is why I tell people who start working out or riding to hang tough through the first 2 weeks because it gets easier after that.


Yeah "toughen up" is the universal answer to all problems. Used quite frequently way back in the day, and not frequently enough nowadays.
:thumb:

@Carleton- thanks. I have no weights to do squats with but I will figure something out, and stretching also seems like a very good idea. I get a lot of stares from around the office while I stretch at my desk but whatever... theys just jealous.

You can do body weight exercises like lunges, step-ups, or plyometrics.

Basic physical strength goes a long way in cycling.


I run and bike. My muscles get sore differently when I do either or. Maybe someone here with an indepth knowledge of human anatomy can give a more proper answer, but my experience bring me to the following conclusion: you are using your muscles a little bit differently when biking or jogging.
From all of my experience in fitness I must say the following: soreness in muscles is a Good thing. If your muscles are not sore - you are not pushing yourself hard enough. If you want your muscles to recover faster: drink protein. And like Carleton said: always stretch.

Keep riding!

I'm not an expert on physiology, but basically when running, the body's leg muscles spend a lot -- maybe most -- of it's energy fighting gravity (supporting the body) and amplified gravity (falling on to your foot on each stride). The upper-body also has to keep itself upright as well as hold the arms up.

On the bike, the weight of only the upper-body is carried on the pelvic area plus the legs only support themselves by pressing or resting on the pedals. So, their energy is used for propulsion via making circles.

You get a good core workout when running. I think very few active runners have bellies or weak backs. This is possible in active cyclists. Of course the knees take a beating in running, even at the highest levels. A high-level road cyclist is only limited by his/her energy system when it comes to back-to-back long training days, whereas a distance runner may have the energy but risks injuring his/her knees.


When does everyone stretch, before, middle or after exercising?

I've read conflicting information on the optimal time to stretch. I find myself stretching after hitting the gym, and stretching both before and after hopping on the bike.

Stretch after exercise so that the muscles will recover in the elongated shape.

Active or dynamic stretching before, static stretching after.




Stretch after exercise so that the muscles will recover in the elongated shape.

I've never heard of this before, explain?

recover faster: drink protein.

http://cdn.jarretmorrow.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/kirkland-reduced-fat-chocol.jpg

Also, are you using brakes, or trying to do all your braking via back pressure? Until you get used to the back pressure, don't be afraid to use your hand bakes. Spend some time on the FG and eventually you will get muscle memory that will make the back pressure feel more natural. (You don't have to do it all at once, unless, of course, you didn't put brakes on the bike.)

Also, are you using brakes, or trying to do all your braking via back pressure? Until you get used to the back pressure, don't be afraid to use your hand bakes. Spend some time on the FG and eventually you will get muscle memory that will make the back pressure feel more natural. (You don't have to do it all at once, unless, of course, you didn't put brakes on the bike.)

Well the bike came with front and rear brakes and was setup for SS but has flipflop hub. Bought 3 years ago, was always too scared/nervous to try FG. Faced my fears/curiousity this weekend and slapped a cog on there and ditched the freewheel. LOVING IT.

But to answer your Q more directly, yeah I have been doing a lot of back pressure braking because it's new and exciting and because I'm trying to get used to that feeling. Rode all weekend and I commute everyday too, so I'm mostly used to that sensation now and I enjoy it.
Also I started out with 73.6" (44/16) which made me feel weak/unsafe since I couldn't "command" the bike very well. Switched to 69.3" (44/17) and now I feel much safer and more in control of the bike. I can now skid stop and hop around a bit while track standing, but it probably looks very sloppy/unnatural when I do those things. I gots no style yet.
Thanks for the solid advice though. I should maybe lay off on the back pressure and use the brake more often.

Active or dynamic stretching before, static stretching after.

Yes, active stretch is basically the warmup, which is very important. But the range of motion isn't past the normal range of motion of cycling.


I've never heard of this before, explain?

As I'm sure you know, muscle fibers are arranged in strands. When we exercise, we contract the strands over and over "teaching" them that we want them to be shorter. This is why lots of muscle head dudes who lift a lot and are very fit, are not flexible if they don't stretch after each session.

If at the end of exercise (constant shortening) we then stretch the fibers out to the length that they were before...or even further, then they will recover in the position in which we left them.

Further, we slightly tear muscle fibers when we exercise (hence the slight soreness). If we stretch them before the recovery process starts, new fibers will be built to accommodate the longer position. This is why it takes weeks or months to lengthen muscles. Basically, we increase the length of the muscles a few mm at a time each time we stretch, recover, stretch, recover. If we stretch too much at one time, we will tear it. Baby steps.

Plus, stretching after exercise is best because the fibers are very warm and there is much less risk of injury from stretching which is very possible when stretching cold. It is no uncommon for people to pull or tear a muscle when stretching when the muscles aren't warmed up.

That's a basic way of explaining what I understand is happening.

... I should maybe lay off on the back pressure and use the brake more often.

The back pressure on a FG bike makes and Eccentric Contraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_contraction) of some of the muscles in the inner thigh. These muscles are sort of hard to train in the first place, plus adding the eccentric contraction will destroy them...till you get stronger.

The eccentric contraction is when the muscle elongates while under tension. It's awful on untrained muscles.

htfu for days.

jk, i rode too much my first couple weeks in seattle and had to force myself to take a week off.

but now we're back to htfu.

Are you sure your legs are sore from riding? It could be from putting your foot in your mouth so much when you first joined the forum.

http://dc475.4shared.com/img/JjnqsgYy/s7/Trollface.gif

The back pressure on a FG bike makes and Eccentric Contraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_contraction) of some of the muscles in the inner thigh. These muscles are sort of hard to train in the first place, plus adding the eccentric contraction will destroy them...till you get stronger.

The eccentric contraction is when the muscle elongates while under tension. It's awful on untrained muscles.


Science hurts.
http://belieber.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/so-you-think-you-can-oh-snap-face-plant.gif?w=590

Are you sure your legs are sore from riding? It could be from putting your foot in your mouth so much when you first joined the forum.

http://dc475.4shared.com/img/JjnqsgYy/s7/Trollface.gif

LOL! nice burn Scrod

Yes, active stretch is basically the warmup, which is very important. But the range of motion isn't past the normal range of motion of cycling.


If at the end of exercise (constant shortening) we then stretch the fibers out to the length that they were before...or even further, then they will recover in the position in which we left them.

...Further, we slightly tear muscle fibers when we exercise (hence the slight soreness). If we stretch them before the recovery process starts, new fibers will be built to accommodate the longer position. This is why it takes weeks or months to lengthen muscles. Basically, we increase the length of the muscles a few mm at a time each time we stretch, recover, stretch, recover...

Plus, stretching after exercise is best because the fibers are very warm and there is much less risk of injury from stretching which is very possible when stretching cold. It is no uncommon for people to pull or tear a muscle when stretching when the muscles aren't warmed up.

That's a basic way of explaining what I understand is happening.


Well put, although check out some videos on walking dynamic glute and hamstring stretches. This movement will go well beyond the typical range of motion while cycling. Otherwise you might as well hop on the bike and pace your self for ten or fifteen minutes.

I think you're overestimating the effects of not stretching after an exercise and why a muscle "shortens". A lot of that shortening is caused by scarring and that pain, that deep soreness, can be caused by the byproduct of that muscle contracting not necessarily the micro-tears themselves. You can lengthen a muscle while by breaking down scar tissue and allowing oxygen to reach that area just as effectively if not more than holding static stretches.

Heh. I'm running almost the same ratio and I still haven't managed a skid yet. Part of it, I think, comes from being an engineer and understanding the dynamics of the situation (and what can go wrong), and part from being old and not wanting to end up in a cast.

The backpedal motion will get very natural soon, though. Then if you go back to freewheel it will feel awful, like something's broken. The backpedal pressure becomes part of your balance, and when you can't lean against the rising pedal it will feel like you're falling off the bike. I try to switch back and forth regularly to keep both FG and freewheel muscle memory.

Heh. I'm running almost the same ratio and I still haven't managed a skid yet. Part of it, I think, comes from being an engineer and understanding the dynamics of the situation (and what can go wrong), and part from being old and not wanting to end up in a cast.

The backpedal motion will get very natural soon, though. Then if you go back to freewheel it will feel awful, like something's broken. The backpedal pressure becomes part of your balance, and when you can't lean against the rising pedal it will feel like you're falling off the bike. I try to switch back and forth regularly to keep both FG and freewheel muscle memory.

After just a few days of riding fixed, it already feels 10 times more normal than it did when I first tried it. The only time it doesn't is when I get caught off guard and have to react quickly, sometimes I have an instinct to stop pedalling so as to brake more efficiently (as one would with a bike that can coast). Just need to train my mind to know that those pedals are always going to be turning - no matter, just brake the bike as normal and go with it. (or brake the bike as normal and go with it, WHILE also using my legs to help slow things down).

As far as skids, mine hop a bit usually. I can't skid very far in a straight line but that's likely because I'm scared to get up a lot of speed first. They say speed is your friend if you're trying to do skids. I'm not entirely convinced yet, lol
Also, I'm only comfortable skid whipping to the right side.
Do you have foot retention of some kind? Without it, skids and things would be harder to do. I have straps.

I have toe clips, no straps. I don't really feel the need to skid though.

When I've been riding a freewheel bike and come back to the FG, the time when I kind of mess up is when I sprint to make a green light before it turns red. Upon getting through the intersection, sometimes I relax and start to coast, forgetting that, well, you just can't do that. It hasn't happened in a while though.

I tl;dr'd this thread. But stretching and massaging your legs after a ride helps. Make sure you're hydrated and you eat some food after a long ride too.

@doohickie - Skids are definitely not needed. Nice to have them in the "toolbox" though, in case you get in a situation, it could help. And good to know what it feels like, just in case it happens you won't freak out. But yeah, not as quick as stopping with brakes usually, from what I've read/heard/experienced. Seems like I'd be better off practicing my trackstands, much more useful in my neck of the woods.

I have toe clips, no straps. I don't really feel the need to skid though.

Good, because you'd most likely eat **** without having straps to pull up on.

one thing to watch out for is tight IT bands, which i've been dealing w/ recently-- the quads aren't strong enough so the connective tissue takes over... which it isn't designed to do... gets inflamed and YOW, knee pain.

keep stretching and do some leg lifts and you'll avoid this. Especially if you've been mashing up hills out of the saddle-- stretch afterwards!

Cool thanks. Fully familiar with ITBS. Had a nasty case when I first started running. I know a few stretches though. I'll be sure to keep an eye on that.

Heh. I'm running almost the same ratio and I still haven't managed a skid yet. Part of it, I think, comes from being an engineer and understanding the dynamics of the situation (and what can go wrong), and part from being old and not wanting to end up in a cast.


Skid stopping is a piece of cake man. Check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjKEBBqJbY

In order for you to have found that, you searched "skid stop" on youtube.

Congrats, you turned to youtube to learn how to skid stop.

Actually... I was looking for vids with tips on trackstands and this was suggested. :p
And what got me started on using youtube as a resource was that old BFSSFG thread I recently dug up about dismounts. It was some dude named Massan just bombing down hills, around town, thru traffic, and doing mad skidz the whole way. Impressive stuff. Good soundtrack too.

Sorry brah, we can't all be Californian. ;) A midwestern guy like me needs a visual aid, and is too proud to flag down the nearest bigshotbike and ask for some demonstrations...

PS- I find it hilarious that the video title itself is also a fail.

Actually... I was looking for vids with tips on trackstands and this was suggested. :p
And what got me started on using youtube as a resource was that old BFFGSS thread I recently dug up about dismounts. It was some dude named Massan just bombing down hills, around town, thru traffic, and doing mad skidz the whole way. Impressive stuff. Good soundtrack too.

Sorry brah, we can't all be Californian. ;) A midwestern guy like me needs a visual aid, and is too proud to flag down the nearest bigshotbike and ask for some demonstrations...

PS- I find it hilarious that the video title itself is also a fail.

If you're riding fixed, and are trying to skid, get foot retention, otherwise it's impossible. Also, don't use some massive gear; gear waaaaaaay down, just to get the technique, and once you can do it consistently, gear back up.

If you're riding fixed, and are trying to skid, get foot retention, otherwise it's impossible. Also, don't use some massive gear; gear waaaaaaay down, just to get the technique, and once you can do it consistently, gear back up.

Thanks, good advice indeed. I got some HoldFast straps and BMX platform pedals on Sunday and that helped me immensely. And today I had a little scare (spinning way too fast and started to lose it but got it under control) so I may take your advice soon and gear up to 46/17. All-City 46t ring is only $40 new.
I can do skid stops on command mostly now but they only last a second because I don't get going very fast. Just fast enough that it works. But if I'm going too fast, a lot of times I don't start locking it up soon enough, and then it doesn't work and it just rolls through. I'm a bit nervous to lean too far forward but obviously you have to get up off the saddle or it won't work.
It's coming along. Today was day 4 of riding fixed so I think I'm making decent progress.
Went helmet shopping today after work but those Bern helmets don't suit me. Still riding helmet-less so I don't want to push anything too quickly.

Do you have a brake?

You mean break? We went over this, man.

Yes front and rear Tektro dual pivots with kool stop salmon pads (http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bicycle-Threaded-Salmon/dp/B000BMT2GU). I've only been using the front though. I'm eventually going to remove the rear brake I think.

You mean break? We went over this, man.

what am I thinking...!!!


Yes front and rear dual pivots with kool stop salmon pads. I've only been using the front though. I'm eventually going to remove the rear brake I think.
d
alright... just checkin.

I'm really trolling tonight.... This is also one of my favorite bands so... it fits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtwoYmtjJw

I started riding "out of shape" about 3 months ago. I've gained an amazing amount of endurance and leg muscle. On parts of my ride that killed me, I can now do them with out breaking much of a sweat. I went from riding 4 miles MAX to riding 15-20 just by riding everything other day and exercising. Try and drink half your body weight in water a day... this surprisingly help me beyond comprehension. I kept finding myself dehydrated on a daily basis. Could be due to smoking beers.

I'm really trolling tonight.... This is also one of my favorite bands so... it fits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtwoYmtjJw

I started riding "out of shape" about 3 months ago. I've gained an amazing amount of endurance and leg muscle. On parts of my ride that killed me, I can now do them with out breaking much of a sweat. I went from riding 4 miles MAX to riding 15-20 just by riding everything other day and exercising. Try and drink half your body weight in water a day... this surprisingly help me beyond comprehension. I kept finding myself dehydrated on a daily basis. Could be due to smoking beers.

"Beyond comprehension" is right.

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. A 160lb person would have to drink 10 gallons of water per day. That is 0.625 gallons per hour. Healthy kidneys are able to excrete approximately 0.26 gallons per hour. You are prescribing 3x that amount. You are purging your body of electrolytes (by diluting them) if you are even attempting anything close to this you are risking death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Skid stopping is a piece of cake man. Check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjKEBBqJbY

I watch these videos for the scenery: 99% of the time these kind of videos (skidding, dismounting your "fixie", tarka stands) are always filmed on some quiet suburban street. I dont be lollygagging like dat around my crib, ye know?

Truuuuuu. Truuu. Try that shtuff in for realz city traffic. One wrong move and oops your head is being run over by a garbage truck... OMG
http://gifs.gifbin.com/032010/1269259657_omg_cat.gif

"Beyond comprehension" is right.

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. A 160lb person would have to drink 10 gallons of water per day. That is 0.625 gallons per hour. Healthy kidneys are able to excrete approximately 0.26 gallons per hour. You are prescribing 3x that amount. You are purging your body of electrolytes (by diluting them) if you are even attempting anything close to this you are risking death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

I think he meant something like "drink half your body weight in fluid ounces."

So if I weigh 180, I need 90 fl oz.

I just have a gallon jug that I drink everyday. works for meh.

I think he meant something like "drink half your body weight in fluid ounces."

So if I weigh 180, I need 90 fl oz.

I just have a gallon jug that I drink everyday. works for meh.

Oh. That makes more sense.

****! I just drank nearly a hundred pounds of water.

Good, because you'd most likely eat **** without having straps to pull up on.

Whoa. I just had an epiphany. You're right; it's I good thing I don't try to skid and now I just figured out why my instincts were correct. :eek:

****! I just drank nearly a hundred pounds of water.

http://www.bettybirney.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/5-Chinese-Brothers-sea-swalloer-247x300.jpg

Also: stretch

yup, it will take time. Just roll with it and in a month you'll be fine.

If some kid wants to listen to some guy on the internet and try to drink 90lbs of water in a day who are you to stop him?