Training & Nutrition - Saddle fore / aft

Hello all. I didn't know if this should be here or in the other forums, but in theory it covers different forms of cycling so I think here may be best.

In regards to saddle fore aft position, I have been using the format of front of knee joint to be in line with the pedal spindle with the crank arm at the 3:00 position. On the past three bikes I've had (all 73 degreee seat tubes), this has always resulted with my saddles all the way back on their rails and with using 25mm set back seatposts. This always seemed odd to me - maybe I have abnormally long thighs??

However, thinking about this fit formula (knee in line with spindle) how would this apply to track bikes and TT bikes? I mean, these bikes have steeper seat tubes resulting in a more forward position. I don't think I would be able to get the saddle back far enough to use the knee in line with spindle theory. Anyone?

I have heard that kop is just a starting point and if it works for you then you are all set. I have wondered about how crank length figures into the kop deal.

I am betting that with TT bikes that the kop is not applicable for adjusting seat position.

I am betting that with TT bikes that the kop is not applicable for adjusting seat position.

You are correct.

Track bikes have more typical rider position but track riders prefer a more forward position, as it's better for high rpms, sprinting, and uses the quads more.

Thanks for the replies. I thought that a correct saddle fore/aft position needed to be kept to prevent knee injuries...?? So, it is ok to be a bit forward or behind the spindle?

Sprinters like to be a bit in front, climbers/road racers often a bit behind. Having the seat back recruits the glutes more and is a little more effective for seated climbing but makes it a little harder to spin at higher rpms.

Having the saddle fore/aft and height right for you will help prevent knee injuries. KOPS is just a rule of thumb starting point, like the Lemond formula for seat height. After that you get to experiment, or use to different position setting theories, or both.

edit: by "a bit" I mean 1-2cm

Recall, the plump fall doesn't start at the knee cap but from the tibial tuberosity, in a 3 o'clock position there is a considerable difference for many people.

Otherwise, experiment. If my saddle is too far forward I get burn in my lower quadricep, if it's too far back I have problems spinning up and high cadence spinning. Finding the sweet spot isn't rocket science, a few rides around the block aren't going to result in knee injury.

Thanks for the info, all!

Reason for this thread is a bit of pain coming from the outside of my knees. Not the IT bands as the pain stems from side of knees to upper calves. I have been measuring from front of knee cap and not front of knee hinge. The pain is only when spinning higher rpm's. I will try to slide it forward, measure from knee hinge front, and raise the saddle to compensate for the saddle being moved forward. Thanks.

I'm not sure what "knee hinge front" means exactly, but "tibial tuberosity" is pretty specific. I'd suggest trying to find that spot on your body and to use that for attaching the plumb line.