Commuting - I'm banging my head. Flipping coins. Everything. Sorry. Surly LHT or Salsa Fargo 3.

I can't decide. I really can't. I wish one of them was offered in my favorite color...but I don't have a favorite color. Hell, I don't really care what color my bike is.

I want a bike that will work for all of these: 1) be able beat the **** out of. 2) ride on the roads and some dirt, gravel, bike trails, maybe a set of steps here and there. 3) be a "fast" bike when I need it to be (i.e. holy ****, I'm late for work, dinner, whatever fast). 4) possibly ride in snow, but definitely sleet and rain. 5) sometimes ride with a rack and/or fenders. 6) be easy to upgrade later. 7) be comfortable to ride if I get a wild hair up my ass and decide to go for a 50+ mile bike ride one day or decide I want to ride across the US. 8) work if I decide to become completely car free. 9) be able to haul a trailer. 10) ensures that I'll never post something along the lines of this type of post again....EVER.

Please help me.

Lastly...these are ONLY bikes I want. HHHHEEEELLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!

Buy both?........takes care of the N+1 for at least a couple of days.:innocent:

Eventually, you will own more than one bike, so one doesn't have to do everything. Why don't you pick one of those (or a different one) that does most of what you want, and then your next bike can do the rest.

Do you have a preference for wheel size and/or disc brakes?

A vote for Salsa Fargo here! Just because I own one and LOVE it!

Wish I could tell you I have both and you should pick ...., but I can't. I bet you'll make a good choice either way, and the sooner you do the sooner you'll be enjoying your new ride.

Chevy or Buick?, they sell by the same (importing) company, QBP.

A vote for LHT here! Just because I own one and LOVE it!

Do you have a preference for wheel size and/or disc brakes?

As for brakes, not really. I can tune/fix/replace either canti's and/or mechanical disc brakes. I don't mess with the hydro stuff.

Wheel size? Nah. 700cc or 29...same thing to a point.

The more I scour the internets, the more I'm leaning towards the Fargo.

I see things I would immediately replace with both.
Fargo: the shifters and brake levers.
LHT: the brakes and brake levers.

why don't you ride them and get back to us.

because it comes in 26" wheel too, the LHT.

& If you are late , pedaling harder makes any bike faster..

The LHT uses 26" wheels, but you can get it in 700c if the frame is 56cm or bigger. If you want to go fast, you'll have a limited selection of "road" tires in 26". Not an issue for the Fargo which has 700c (aka 29") wheels. You can get discs for the LHT with the disc trucker model.

Any preference for straight top tube versus sloping?

Also, both the Fargo and LHT are full-on touring bikes and it sounds like you want a "do everything" bike, which includes going moderately fast. I don't think either bike is really a good choice for that kind of riding, but they'll do almost everything else well. Since you're looking at Salsa and Surly, you might want to consider the Vaya and Crosscheck too. They're not full-on touring bikes, but they can carry quite a bit, are very versatile, and are a bit nimbler and faster than the first two for those times when you're late for work.

I was in the same boat as you for quite some time. I wanted a capable touring bike, a commuter, cargo bike, off road-er, etc... I rode a bunch and narrowed it down to the Fargo and the Ogre. I rode them both again and had to have the Ogre. Both are very capable bikes that fit exactly what I was looking for, but in the end, the Ogre fit me and rode better. I suggest you test ride all of them and take a notebook with you, enter both pros and cons for each bike. This does take some time, but should yield results that you will be happy with.

I don't think of them as direct competitors - Fargo vs. Ogre seems closer. Still both would work for 1-9, no bike can deal with 10. My 9 cents follows.
1. You have two winners.
2. Both work. "Better" roads favor the LHT, terrible -or no- roads favor the Fargo.
3. the LHT - to the extent that there is a difference. It's all about the "motor".
4. Yes.
5. Not sure about ease of fender attachment on the Fargo, but both should do well.
6. Little difference.
7. Fit counts more.
8,9. Yep.

I'd probably choose the LHT on the basis of price (as in, more money left for lights, racks, fenders, saddle, other upgrades.) - unless you were planning a lot of "adventure" riding.

Don't get either one. Get the Raleigh Roper, instead! :D

The Raleigh Roper ~ $1500
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper-12/ (http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper-12/)

Talk about a fast workhorse!

Salsa Fargo.
Almost everyone has a Surly nowadays.

Slim, I thought you were into Jamis. The Roper is not bad, but personally, I'm not impressed with the disc brake cable management, the blue stickers on the rims, and the battleship gray color. Superficial, I know, but when Trek made the Portland, it was spec'ed and priced similarly but was much more attractive (IMO). For what the OP is looking for, I think the Vaya would be very compelling, unless he plans to do a lot more single track, where the Fargo would make more sense.

Almost everyone has a Surly nowadays.
Hmm, I wonder why?

Slim, I thought you were into Jamis. The Roper is not bad, but personally, I'm not impressed with the disc brake cable management, the blue stickers on the rims, and the battleship gray color. Superficial, I know, but when Trek made the Portland, it was spec'ed and priced similarly but was much more attractive (IMO). For what the OP is looking for, I think the Vaya would be very compelling, unless he plans to do a lot more single track, where the Fargo would make more sense.

Hey Jeff!

I agree about the Roper brakes! BB7's would be better..... You've got a great point about the Trek Portland. That was a classic! I loved that one too! You're absolutely right about the Fargo's single tracking ability. My first thought was that the LHT would be better compared to the Vaya too, rather than the Fargo. However, it is what it is.....

PS.

Yes, I like Jamis, alright. But I really do love steel! :thumb:

10) ensures that I'll never post something along the lines of this type of post again....EVER.

I have put a few years in trying out alternatives to my LHT (running 2.0 big apples) (cross bike w/ narrrower but still pudgy tires, road bike w/ skinny tires, and of course the pugsley if 2.0 was not fat enough) and basically I have solidified the LHT's position as a bike I will not part with.

Wednesday was the only sunny day here in over a week, perfect road bike day, but I didn't have time to go anywhere but to/from my daughter's camp to drop/retrieve her, and the 25mm road tires were just too bouncy for that kind of a relatively leisurely ride so the LHT it was. Supposed to be sunny again in another couple weeks so I will get consecutive road bike days in eventually, meantime I am glad the LHT is always there for me.

Of course a fargo could do all that too. What can I say, w/ chunky tires I prefer 26" rather than have to push 29 x 2.0's around and around until they get up to speed. 26x2.0 is a comparable diameter to 700x25 anyway.

A couple of years ago I was looking for a new bike and after looking at all the alternatives I decided on the Salsa Vaya. It had features I was looking for without being too extreme.

Definitely consider the Salsa Vaya. By your description, the Vaya seems more suited to your stated uses than the Fargo.

I have put a few years in trying out alternatives to my LHT (running 2.0 big apples) (cross bike w/ narrrower but still pudgy tires, road bike w/ skinny tires, and of course the pugsley if 2.0 was not fat enough) and basically I have solidified the LHT's position as a bike I will not part with.

Wednesday was the only sunny day here in over a week, perfect road bike day, but I didn't have time to go anywhere but to/from my daughter's camp to drop/retrieve her, and the 25mm road tires were just too bouncy for that kind of a relatively leisurely ride so the LHT it was. Supposed to be sunny again in another couple weeks so I will get consecutive road bike days in eventually, meantime I am glad the LHT is always there for me.

Of course a fargo could do all that too. What can I say, w/ chunky tires I prefer 26" rather than have to push 29 x 2.0's around and around until they get up to speed. 26x2.0 is a comparable diameter to 700x25 anyway.


I was right with you all the way Hardy, up until you got to the " 26x2.0 is a comparable diameter to 700x25 anyway" part.

What does that mean?

If you want the 700c fat tires, the Fargo will take fatter ones than the LHT. If you go with 26" on the LHT you can go wide. I went with the Fargo for that reason, as most of the touring I expect to do will be up in the coast range logging roads. I've ridden up there on day trips already and the Fargo is comfortable for several hours, anyway, and I love the disk brakes for coming back down. I wish I could go lower than the 20 gear inch granny I have, but the LHT is the same ratio. My Rocky Mountain will go all the way down to 17 and I can feel the difference on climbs.

Thanks for all the suggestions! In regards to the LHT, I would choose the 700c wheels over the 26".

I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Fargo.

I was right with you all the way Hardy, up until you got to the " 26x2.0 is a comparable diameter to 700x25 anyway" part. What does that mean?

They're the same diameter, ~66cm.

However, the 26x2.0 tire is considerably heavier than a 700x25, about 600-900g vs 220-330g. You can really feel the extra >300g when pedaling, especially as distance increases.

Please help me.

Lastly...these are ONLY bikes I want. HHHHEEEELLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!

These bikes are as different as night and day so this tells me you don't have a clue what you want. Probably should rethink the question.

Eventually, you will own more than one bike, so one doesn't have to do everything. Why don't you pick one of those (or a different one) that does most of what you want, and then your next bike can do the rest.

This (see my signature) then the LHT would round out my stable.

I have a Salsa Vaya, I built it up with ultregra (mostly) parts and BB7 brakes. I love it! It's a high quality, lightweight frame with beautiful construction. Standard discs are sweet with plenty of braze-ons for fenders and racks. It's a bit more, but totally worth it.

My vote goes for Salsa, easy.

These bikes are as different as night and day so this tells me you don't have a clue what you want. Probably should rethink the question.

So you're saying I should compare the LHT to what? And the Fargo to what? Learn me.

FYI for those wanting to compare for themselves. Looks like the Salsa is essentially a mountain bike with road bars, and the LHT is a rugged road bike.
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo_3/

http://salsacycles.com/files/bikes/bikes_fargo3_2012.jpg

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker/

http://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/bk_long_haul_trucker.jpg

These bikes are as different as night and day so this tells me you don't have a clue what you want. Probably should rethink the question.
No, it makes sense. Basically he's comparing an off-road bike you can ride on the road, with a road bike you can ride off road.

I've ridden both and each one rides completely different. I bought my Fargo because of the off road capabilities since I ride in rural areas. Plus I loved the Woodchipper bars and the disc brakes. I don't remember if the LHT has the Woodchipper bars or not. Doesn't look like it from the pictures.

My next favorite was the Cross Check as it was much lighter and more agile but I wanted the disc brakes. I haven't tried the Vaya. Salsa makes the Chile Con Crosso as well, but I haven't ridden that either.

Surly/Salsa make great bikes and their versatility can't be beat which is why they are gaining in popularity. If you want a mountain bike that rides both on road/off road, it's the Fargo. If you want a road bike that can go off road, buy the LHT. I think the Fargo can fit up to 2.3 inch? tires which gives you lots of options. I don't know about the LHT. Since it's a road bike, your tire choices may be limited. Not a deal breaker, but it's something else to think about.

If you want a mountain bike that rides both on road/off road, it's the Fargo. If you want a road bike that can go off road, buy the LHT.

This is the bottom line. Base your decision on where you think you will spend more time, road or off road.

So you're saying I should compare the LHT to what? And the Fargo to what? Learn me.
One is a road bike and one is a dirt bike.

Ok, time to fight for the Fargo. It really is a do anything bike, much more so than the LHT. You have the power of disc brakes, the smooth rolling 29er wheelset, the brilliant frame design with ample stand over room, the awesome and versatile woodchipper bars, the Fargo fork with all of the braze ons, and the rest of the frame has a ton of braze ons for easy fender and rack mounting. I have run Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on my Fargo for fast road travel, as well as Race King 2.2 knobbies and WTB Nano's. I find I prefer the knobbies simply because I do a lot of single track on my way to work for fun. I have run full fenders, racks, you name it at one time or another on my Fargo. It's just a sweet design for a bike, it's truly the jack of all trades. I'd say the Surly Ogre is the closest comparison but it doesn't have the sweet woodchipper bars. If you have the slightest thought that you might want to do some off road exploring or bikepacking, or just want a bike that will roll right over pot holes I highly recommend the Fargo. I have mine setup with a Revelate Designs Frame pack and seat bag and a Salsa Anything cage on my front fork. Between all of these I can haul just about anything gear wise to work and back without a rack needed or backpack. Good luck!


http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/acr_photos/picsay-1340889956.jpg

I have the Disc Trucker. I only owned it for a few months. I did some weekend rides and commuted on it. I like it a lot. But I built it up with flat bars. It's very, very, very comfortable and can carry lots of stuff but it's not a fast bike and it's not nimble. It's surely faster than my MTB commuter but can't even remotely compare to a road bike. There is no real acceleration to speak of, it is a truck. I run it with slick 32 tires so I am not going to try any serious off-roading but it handles gravel just fine.

But it's an old school frame with minimal standover.

I want a bike that will work for all of these: 1) be able beat the **** out of. 2) ride on the roads and some dirt, gravel, bike trails, maybe a set of steps here and there. 3) be a "fast" bike when I need it to be (i.e. holy ****, I'm late for work, dinner, whatever fast). 4) possibly ride in snow, but definitely sleet and rain. 5) sometimes ride with a rack and/or fenders. 6) be easy to upgrade later. 7) be comfortable to ride if I get a wild hair up my ass and decide to go for a 50+ mile bike ride one day or decide I want to ride across the US. 8) work if I decide to become completely car free. 9) be able to haul a trailer. 10) ensures that I'll never post something along the lines of this type of post again....EVER.

I own that bike. It's my cross check.

The Salsa works for me as an all around bike. It is not a mountain bike with drop bars. As a complete factory build it comes stock with road gearing and of course 700c wheels.

I use mine for about everything other than my serious road rides/workouts. I just added a mountain crank and front derailleur so I could have a bit easier time climbing the steep stuff off road.

Reality is, if you are really struggling with your decision then odds are either bike would most likely work for you.

Mine today after a hard off road ride and then getting cleaned up

259342

I can't decide. I really can't. I wish one of them was offered in my favorite color...but I don't have a favorite color. Hell, I don't really care what color my bike is.

I want a bike that will work for all of these: 1) be able beat the **** out of. 2) ride on the roads and some dirt, gravel, bike trails, maybe a set of steps here and there. 3) be a "fast" bike when I need it to be (i.e. holy ****, I'm late for work, dinner, whatever fast). 4) possibly ride in snow, but definitely sleet and rain. 5) sometimes ride with a rack and/or fenders. 6) be easy to upgrade later. 7) be comfortable to ride if I get a wild hair up my ass and decide to go for a 50+ mile bike ride one day or decide I want to ride across the US. 8) work if I decide to become completely car free. 9) be able to haul a trailer. 10) ensures that I'll never post something along the lines of this type of post again....EVER.

Please help me.

Lastly...these are ONLY bikes I want. HHHHEEEELLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!

I've never even seen the Fargo, but I have the LHT and ride it every day. I love it, but based on the criteria you've listed, maybe it's not quite what you want. You can beat the cr*p out of it, ride it on some dirt, ride it with a rack and fenders, and of course haul stuff with it, but with the long cranks and low bottom bracket you're better off not attempting stairs, and it's not even close to being a speedy bike. (I can do maybe 25-26 mph if I feel like trying to pop my aorta, but not for an extended period of time. My usual flat-ground speed with no headwind is a much more modest 15-16 mph.)

I want a bike that will work for all of these: 1) be able beat the **** out of.
2) ride on the roads and some dirt, gravel, bike trails, maybe a set of steps here and there.
3) be a "fast" bike when I need it to be (i.e. holy ****, I'm late for work, dinner, whatever fast).
4) possibly ride in snow, but definitely sleet and rain.
5) sometimes ride with a rack and/or fenders.
6) be easy to upgrade later.
7) be comfortable to ride if I get a wild hair up my ass and decide to go for a 50+ mile bike ride one day or decide I want to ride across the US.
8) work if I decide to become completely car free.
9) be able to haul a trailer. !

Your description is more Cross-Check/Vaya etc. than LHT or Fargo given the preference for fast road riding over loaded touring or off-road riding. The CC can take fat tires and the geometry is well suited for road riding. Anything that requires tires larger than 47mm or better off roading than the CC or similar bike will take you further from a fast road bike.

By the description of what you need, I really don't see you being happy with either the LHT or the Fargo. Neither will ever be even close to "a fast bike when I need it to be".

For mainly road riding, with some gravel grinding and light single track, take a closer look at the Surly Cross Check and Salsa Vaya. The main difference between them is that the Cross Check has a more aggressive road riding position, while the Vaya is a bit more laid back. Both bikes will handle the 50-mile ride and the trailer use, but the Vaya will probably be more comfortable on the ride across the US. For snow riding, I'd personally prefer the more laid back ride of the Vaya. For the speeding across town, the Cross Check gets the nod.

My Vaya3

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy124/Almost_Green_Guy/Bikes/Salsa%20Vaya3/2012-05-20_17-29-18_677.png

No, it makes sense. Basically he's comparing an off-road bike you can ride on the road, with a road bike you can ride off road.


Only problem there is that the 700cLHT is more of a truck for carrying loads in a straight line than a "road bike" for nimble unloaded fast riding which appears to be the dominant use for the op. The 700LHT fits in the general category of bike for riding on roads but it's about as far from a road bike as a shocked hard tail is from a cross bike.

Salsa Vaya seems like a better choice than either the Fargo or LHT, based on your stated desires. It all seems to boil down to whether you want a road bike or a mountain bike. The Vaya is sort of in-between.

By the description of what you need, I really don't see you being happy with either the LHT or the Fargo. Neither will ever be even close to "a fast bike when I need it to be".

For mainly road riding, with some gravel grinding and light single track, take a closer look at the Surly Cross Check and Salsa Vaya. The main difference between them is that the Cross Check has a more aggressive road riding position, while the Vaya is a bit more laid back. Both bikes will handle the 50-mile ride and the trailer use, but the Vaya will probably be more comfortable on the ride across the US. For snow riding, I'd personally prefer the more laid back ride of the Vaya. For the speeding across town, the Cross Check gets the nod.

My Vaya3

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy124/Almost_Green_Guy/Bikes/Salsa%20Vaya3/2012-05-20_17-29-18_677.png

This photo just made me want a Vaya. Which I will adorn with a beautiful Brooks just like yours.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice everyone. From reading everything, the Vaya looks like the best choice for what I will need. I was always leaning towards the Fargo, but the Vaya seems more logical.

Ok, time to fight for the Fargo. It really is a do anything bike, much more so than the LHT. You have the power of disc brakes, the smooth rolling 29er wheelset, the brilliant frame design with ample stand over room, the awesome and versatile woodchipper bars, the Fargo fork with all of the braze ons, and the rest of the frame has a ton of braze ons for easy fender and rack mounting. I have run Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on my Fargo for fast road travel, as well as Race King 2.2 knobbies and WTB Nano's. I find I prefer the knobbies simply because I do a lot of single track on my way to work for fun. I have run full fenders, racks, you name it at one time or another on my Fargo. It's just a sweet design for a bike, it's truly the jack of all trades. I'd say the Surly Ogre is the closest comparison but it doesn't have the sweet woodchipper bars. If you have the slightest thought that you might want to do some off road exploring or bikepacking, or just want a bike that will roll right over pot holes I highly recommend the Fargo. I have mine setup with a Revelate Designs Frame pack and seat bag and a Salsa Anything cage on my front fork. Between all of these I can haul just about anything gear wise to work and back without a rack needed or backpack. Good luck!


http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/acr_photos/picsay-1340889956.jpg

"Ok. Time to fight for the Fargo.". I LOVE this!

May I suggest a Rivendell Atlantis or A. Homer Hilsen, or Sam Hillborne?