dstrong
07-06-12, 03:30 PM
http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2012/tour-de-france/resources/profiles/profile-12.jpg
Oh great...Friday the 13th. :(
Oh great...Friday the 13th. :(
Professional Cycling For the Fans - 2012 Tour de France - Stage 12 - Épernay → Metz - Friday July 13
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ooga-booga
07-09-12, 02:13 PM
moncoutie...
LansingWes
07-12-12, 06:14 PM
It will be interesting to see if Sagan can go with the break to pick up more points at the Sprint Point.
thechemist
07-12-12, 06:33 PM
It will be interesting to see if Sagan can go with the break to pick up more points at the Sprint Point.
I see Sagan getting some intermediate sprint points in the break but not winning the stage.
I see Sagan getting some intermediate sprint points in the break but not winning the stage.
seanthebear
07-12-12, 09:33 PM
Should read
Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne / Annonay DavézieuxÉpernay → Metz was stage 6.
Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne / Annonay DavézieuxÉpernay → Metz was stage 6.
chasm54
07-13-12, 05:23 AM
Wiggins attacking the peloton - including his own team - towards the top of the second big climb. How interesting is that?
Almost certainly just asserting his authority, I'd guess. He'll have been piqued by everyone saying Froome is stronger than he is. Made them go a bit, anyway, he looks plenty strong.
Almost certainly just asserting his authority, I'd guess. He'll have been piqued by everyone saying Froome is stronger than he is. Made them go a bit, anyway, he looks plenty strong.
chasm54
07-13-12, 08:50 AM
Nice win for Millar. It's been a while.
PatrickGSR94
07-13-12, 09:02 AM
Wonder what Sagan was saying/yelling as he crossed the line...
rex615
07-13-12, 09:06 AM
Wonder what Sagan was saying/yelling as he crossed the line...
Probably couldn't repeat it here ;)
Did look a bit deliberate to me.
Probably couldn't repeat it here ;)
Did look a bit deliberate to me.
eduardo76
07-13-12, 09:15 AM
the eurosport commentator said it best - paraphrasing: looked more like a "drift" to me, if he had the legs he would've kept going...
sagan is really impressing me and i really like him, but i think he needs to get a bit scrappier on the sprints...someone like cav wouldn't even had acknowledged that shift by goss...
sagan is really impressing me and i really like him, but i think he needs to get a bit scrappier on the sprints...someone like cav wouldn't even had acknowledged that shift by goss...
AnthonyG
07-13-12, 09:21 AM
Goss penalised (relegated) for changing line. As an Australian I'm disappointed but it certainly looked like he moved too much to me.
Anthony
Anthony
ramuntxo
07-13-12, 09:33 AM
Goss penalised (relegated) for changing line. As an Australian I'm disappointed but it certainly looked like he moved too much to me.
Anthony
Really? I know that he moved but I really don't think it was intentional. It seemed to me he either had his head down or was looking straight ahead. I don't think he knew Sagan was at that particular spot at that particular moment.
Anthony
Really? I know that he moved but I really don't think it was intentional. It seemed to me he either had his head down or was looking straight ahead. I don't think he knew Sagan was at that particular spot at that particular moment.
AnthonyG
07-13-12, 09:38 AM
Really? I know that he moved but I really don't think it was intentional. It seemed to me he either had his head down or was looking straight ahead. I don't think he knew Sagan was at that particular spot at that particular moment.
I'm certainly not claiming that it was intentional (although the commentators speculated that it was a professional foul) yet the officials expect the top sprinters to keep their line and he did move over somewhat. Disappointing. It would have been VERY close.
Anthony
I'm certainly not claiming that it was intentional (although the commentators speculated that it was a professional foul) yet the officials expect the top sprinters to keep their line and he did move over somewhat. Disappointing. It would have been VERY close.
Anthony
Shifty
07-13-12, 09:50 AM
Maybe Sagan should have given a ring-dingy of his bell to let Goss know that he was "on your left".:lol:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/830591-Sagan-using-a-bell
Good win for Millar, he sure gave it his all.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/830591-Sagan-using-a-bell
Good win for Millar, he sure gave it his all.
thenomad
07-13-12, 10:22 AM
Sagan lost it due to the move, his pedal was nearly in Goss' back spokes.
He will get better at the sprint but I do think he could have avoided getting caught in that move as he could have gone a bit wider on the pass. He was really trying to creep up close along side.
Goss should have held his line and he pretty much knew Sagan would come on the left. Goss first went wide right, effectively closing off the right side if Sagan took the long way 'round. He then tried to press left toward the middle of the road in the final acceleration to squeeze Sagan's line. You see a lot of guys do that and the attacker typically jumps and swings a bit more left to nullify that tactic.
I think Gossaccidentally put a pedal/bars wrong for a second as he probably just wanted to press left. .
He will get better at the sprint but I do think he could have avoided getting caught in that move as he could have gone a bit wider on the pass. He was really trying to creep up close along side.
Goss should have held his line and he pretty much knew Sagan would come on the left. Goss first went wide right, effectively closing off the right side if Sagan took the long way 'round. He then tried to press left toward the middle of the road in the final acceleration to squeeze Sagan's line. You see a lot of guys do that and the attacker typically jumps and swings a bit more left to nullify that tactic.
I think Gossaccidentally put a pedal/bars wrong for a second as he probably just wanted to press left. .
Bacciagalupe
07-13-12, 12:50 PM
Goss absolutely should have known better. He had a ton of space and a clear line to his left, there was no reason to move. Unless he wanted to spare us another Chicken Dance display. :D
Anyway, good ride by Millar. I appreciated the shots of him lying on the ground like he'd had a heart attack right after the win.
Anyway, good ride by Millar. I appreciated the shots of him lying on the ground like he'd had a heart attack right after the win.
daveF
07-13-12, 01:05 PM
Really? I know that he moved but I really don't think it was intentional. It seemed to me he either had his head down or was looking straight ahead. I don't think he knew Sagan was at that particular spot at that particular moment.
Doesn't have to be deliberate to be relegated.
Doesn't have to be deliberate to be relegated.
eduardo76
07-13-12, 02:21 PM
deliberate or not, i still don't think it was enough of a move to be relegated and lose a position OR as I just read, lose 30pts for not being safe...plenty of space left on the road and not nearly dramatic enough of a shift for sagan to freak out like he did...i like sagan ( a lot, he is going to be huge and he has a great personality and charisma for the sport!), but sprinters gotta learn to be scrappier without getting the commissaries involved...(the last thing i want is precedent for sprinters to sit up and start pointing at other sprinters for what may or may not be an infraction)
markjenn
07-13-12, 02:36 PM
...plenty of space left on the road and not nearly dramatic enough of a shift for sagan to freak out like he did...i like sagan ( a lot, he is going to be huge and he has a great personality and charisma for the sport!), but sprinters gotta learn to be scrappier without getting the commissaries involved...
Definitely a judgment call.
I think the judges will allow some jockeying if they think a competition needs it to find an open line to the finish. But in this case, there really was no reason for Goss to suddenly move left - he had the entire road straight ahead to himself. So he either did it deliberately to throw Sagan's timing off, or he lost control briefly. In either event, while you can argue that the move wasn't dramatic enough to make the difference in the outcome, you can't argue that it didn't impede Sagan to some degree. So you have a situation where a competition made a sudden move in the final sprint for no apparent good reason that impeded a competitor to some degree. The burden of proof is not that you have to show Sagan would have won without the move; all you have to show is that the move caused another competition to be significantly impeded. It is hard not to rule against Goss in this light.
And this wasn't something subtle; witness that the commentators immediately commented as it was happening.
- Mark
Definitely a judgment call.
I think the judges will allow some jockeying if they think a competition needs it to find an open line to the finish. But in this case, there really was no reason for Goss to suddenly move left - he had the entire road straight ahead to himself. So he either did it deliberately to throw Sagan's timing off, or he lost control briefly. In either event, while you can argue that the move wasn't dramatic enough to make the difference in the outcome, you can't argue that it didn't impede Sagan to some degree. So you have a situation where a competition made a sudden move in the final sprint for no apparent good reason that impeded a competitor to some degree. The burden of proof is not that you have to show Sagan would have won without the move; all you have to show is that the move caused another competition to be significantly impeded. It is hard not to rule against Goss in this light.
And this wasn't something subtle; witness that the commentators immediately commented as it was happening.
- Mark
YMCA
07-13-12, 02:55 PM
Goss was deliberate, but in a cheeky way.
That was not an accidental drift.
I like his sprinters gumption though.
That was not an accidental drift.
I like his sprinters gumption though.
chasm54
07-13-12, 03:04 PM
Goss is a top sprinter. There was acres of room. He didn't make that move by mistake.
cthenn
07-13-12, 08:15 PM
Wiggins attacking the peloton - including his own team - towards the top of the second big climb. How interesting is that?
Almost certainly just asserting his authority, I'd guess. He'll have been piqued by everyone saying Froome is stronger than he is. Made them go a bit, anyway, he looks plenty strong.
Attacking the peloton? Hardly. To me, this just reinforces his insecurity. What's the point...OOH big bad Wiggins closed the gap to some no-name guys, hours back in the GC, at the very top of the mountain, with 150K's to go... He was trying to make it seem like he's the boss, but it's not fooling anyone.
Come on Wiggins...do your thing...crack on one of the KOM stages, and watch Froome crush them all.
Almost certainly just asserting his authority, I'd guess. He'll have been piqued by everyone saying Froome is stronger than he is. Made them go a bit, anyway, he looks plenty strong.
Attacking the peloton? Hardly. To me, this just reinforces his insecurity. What's the point...OOH big bad Wiggins closed the gap to some no-name guys, hours back in the GC, at the very top of the mountain, with 150K's to go... He was trying to make it seem like he's the boss, but it's not fooling anyone.
Come on Wiggins...do your thing...crack on one of the KOM stages, and watch Froome crush them all.
kleinboogie
07-14-12, 05:34 AM
Great finish from the breakaway and the Peloton. Too bad Goss moved, he had a good chance to take it. I think it was just Sprinter's instinct to not let Sagan go by but he had to be penalized. 30 points I think was a little steep.
Homebrew01
07-14-12, 05:45 AM
Great finish from the breakaway and the Peloton. Too bad Goss moved, he had a good chance to take it. I think it was just Sprinter's instinct to not let Sagan go by but he had to be penalized. 30 points I think was a little steep.
Yup
Yup
reef58
07-14-12, 06:49 AM
I don't know 30 points vs a possible career ending injury? You can't do that.