General Cycling Discussion - What have you done lately for your LBS?

I read a lot of threads here about bad LBS, bad LBS mechanics, LBS that are clueless, LBS that charge too much, etc.

I happen to really like my LBS, Nonstop Ciclismo in Ventura, California.

The owner (Keith), the sales staff (JP, Martha and Nick) and the wrench (Sean) are all helpful, know their way around bikes and always seem to stock all the goodies that I really like.

So, from time to time I like to do nice things for them.

I have tipped the wrench, I have bought a bottle of nice Italian grappa and six pack of beer for them, and I occasionally bring them bagels and cream cheese on Friday mornings. I have also bought books for their growing bike library.

I understand that ours is essentially a commercial relationship, but I also understand that these are people, and just like you and me, they like to be treated nicely.

How many of you do little nice things for your LBS and their staff? What do you do?

I read a lot of threads here about bad LBS, bad LBS mechanics, LBS that are clueless, LBS that charge too much, etc.

I happen to really like my LBS, Nonstop Ciclismo in Ventura, California.

The owner (Keith), the sales staff (JP, Martha and Nick) and the wrench (Sean) are all helpful, know their way around bikes and always seem to stock all the goodies that I really like.

So, from time to time I like to do nice things for them.

I have tipped the wrench, I have bought a bottle of nice Italian grappa and six pack of beer for them, and I occasionally bring them bagels and cream cheese on Friday mornings. I have also bought books for their growing bike library.

I understand that ours is essentially a commercial relationship, but I also understand that these are people, and just like you and me, they like to be treated nicely.

How many of you do little nice things for your LBS and their staff? What do you do?

Mickey's Big Mouth Malt Liquor and Guinness Stout about the time the mechanics are shutting down and seeping the shop floor. I haven't had a drink in 20+ years, so its vicarious for me.

Don in Austin

Bicycle shops are businesses who need to do something for me in order for me to give them my business. They aren't charities which need donations and support.


Do you provide bagals and cream cheese to the places you buy your shoes, clothing, music, furniture, etc. etc. too?

If it's like my LBS, you do it cause they're just a great bunch of folks that you feel good doing something for.

Last good thing I did for them was to order GP4000's online. 2 for $85 (free shipping). That leaves the LBS's stock there for suckers to pay $75 each. That's what I do for them.:D

I haven't done anything for the bike shop lately, but in the last few weeks I have,

Brought coffee and donuts to the checkers at Walmart.
Gave a tip to the customer service rep when I paid a parking ticket.
Loaded my own trash into the Waste Management truck.
Hugged the mailman.
Bought my favorite bartender a beer. He thanked me and said it was the first one he'd had since joining AA 468 days before!
Tipped my barber $3 even though one sideburn is a little shorter.
Made pizza and cake for the local Overeaters Anonymous meeting.

Bicycle shops are businesses who need to do something for me in order for me to give them my business. They aren't charities which need donations and support.


Do you provide bagals and cream cheese to the places you buy your shoes, clothing, music, furniture, etc. etc. too?

Actually I do. Just last Friday I took bagels and "shmear" to the guys at the parts department and the sales department at my local Benz dealer. They treat my wife and me real well and often go out of their way to make sure that we get that we are happy and get "special treatment."

It is like tipping the guy who mows my lawn, cuts my hair, delivers my dry cleaning, etc. Those little acts of kindness go a long way in building relationships that are mutually beneficial. You'd be surprised how many doors are opened, wide open at that, by these little acts.

I have raised my children to do the same and they now are beginning to see the fruits of their own actions.

Try it someday, you may be pleasantly surprised. :thumb:

I haven't done anything for the bike shop lately, but in the last few weeks I have,

Brought coffee and donuts to the checkers at Walmart.
Gave a tip to the customer service rep when I paid a parking ticket.
Loaded my own trash into the Waste Management truck.
Hugged the mailman.
Bought my favorite bartender a beer. He thanked me and said it was the first one he'd had since joining AA 468 days before!
Tipped my barber $3 even though one sideburn is a little shorter.
Made pizza and cake for the local Overeaters Anonymous meeting.



C'est drole, tres drole! :)

I gave them money in exchange for goods and services.

I happen to really like my LBS, Nonstop Ciclismo in Ventura, California.
It's funny that you should mention them. I've bought a couple things from them on ebay and planned on stopping by when I'm up there for Cool Breeze.

At the local shop I normally go to, the regular customers help bring in the bikes at closing.

It's funny that you should mention them. I've bought a couple things from them on ebay and planned on stopping by when I'm up there for Cool Breeze.

At the local shop I normally go to, the regular customers help bring in the bikes at closing.

They are good people. You will like talking to Sean, the wrench. :)

Bicycle shops are businesses who need to do something for me in order for me to give them my business. They aren't charities which need donations and support.


Do you provide bagals and cream cheese to the places you buy your shoes, clothing, music, furniture, etc. etc. too?

I agree that some stores are just a retail business. Others I have built a relationship with the people that work there. Want good customer service? Sometimes it takes building a relationship. I have taken beer and pizza into my LBS to share after closing. My wife makes up Christmas goody trays for them. We also do the same for a variety of other stores we frequent. I probably should point out that we seldom frequent big box stores, we much prefer the smaller locally owned stores. As an example of above and beyond service: I bought parts for one of my tractors, the part wouldn't fit, I called the store to see if they had a different part number. It was on a Saturday and they closed at noon, there was no way I was going to be able to get back up there before they closed. The parts guy said don't worry I will bring a couple of different parts out to you. An hour later I have the correct part in hand, now THAT is customer service. I insisted he stay and have lunch with us and he and his fellow employees will be getting a Christmas tray from us. Yes I pay for the parts, but that is the kind of service that goes above and beyond. I don't expect service like that, but when I get it I am always pleased and want to show my appreciation.

Aaron :)

Last good thing I did for them was to order GP4000's online. 2 for $85 (free shipping). That leaves the LBS's stock there for suckers to pay $75 each. That's what I do for them.:D

That also frees up their time from all that stock reordering and shelf restocking.

Put in 8 hours every Saturday..

Do you provide bagals and cream cheese to the places you buy your shoes, clothing, music, furniture, etc. etc. too?

No, but those places are plentiful. We've lost two LBSs in in the local area recently, one of which was my go-to place. I don't really want to lose another one when there really aren't that many around.


As far as what I've done for them recently, on our pub crawl last night, we passed a cyclist and he asked what we were doing. He was new in town, and I invited him to join us, and when we stopped, I introduced him to the LBS owner and a mechanic from the same shop. Some of the best advertisement you can get is via word of mouth.

I agree that some stores are just a retail business. Others I have built a relationship with the people that work there. Want good customer service? Sometimes it takes building a relationship. I have taken beer and pizza into my LBS to share after closing. My wife makes up Christmas goody trays for them. We also do the same for a variety of other stores we frequent. I probably should point out that we seldom frequent big box stores, we much prefer the smaller locally owned stores. As an example of above and beyond service: I bought parts for one of my tractors, the part wouldn't fit, I called the store to see if they had a different part number. It was on a Saturday and they closed at noon, there was no way I was going to be able to get back up there before they closed. The parts guy said don't worry I will bring a couple of different parts out to you. An hour later I have the correct part in hand, now THAT is customer service. I insisted he stay and have lunch with us and he and his fellow employees will be getting a Christmas tray from us. Yes I pay for the parts, but that is the kind of service that goes above and beyond. I don't expect service like that, but when I get it I am always pleased and want to show my appreciation.

Aaron :)

Aaron, you and your wife are good people and your efforts are obviously rewarded with much-better-than-average customer service.

The mechanic and the owner of the LBS where I bought my 'Nago C59 stayed late--way past closing time--in order to get my C59 ready for me to take home on time for my Father's Day ride. That meant a lot to me.

My parents owned a business for many, many years. They treated their customers right, gave them great prices and fantastic service. Sometimes, when a customer couldn't pay the full invoice, my parents would let them pay whenever they could--my parents were never stiffed by a customer.

During the L.A. riots (I mean civil disobedience) my parents' business went untouched, while businesses on either side of their shop were ransacked. I like to think that people in the community knew that my parents were decent folks and they respected that.

Around Christmas time customers would bring my parents presents, home-cooked meals, cookies, baked goods, etc.

From that experience I learned that commerce is a two-way street. The LBS has to take good care of its customers. Customers, however, need to show their appreciation for a business that goes above and beyond in providing good prices and great service.

A little side story: Three years after my parents sold their business, it closed down. Customers missed my pearents' personal touch. Seems like the new owners were only interested in making the most profit out of the goods they sold and did not care much for their customers.

Bicycle shops are businesses who need to do something for me in order for me to give them my business. They aren't charities which need donations and support.


Do you provide bagals and cream cheese to the places you buy your shoes, clothing, music, furniture, etc. etc. too?

I agree. Yea, a tip maybe for SERVICE by an individual above and beyond. But the other stuff is very odd to me. It's a flippin' business, not a prom date.

I gave them money in exchange for goods and services.

+1. I'll take a bike in for work that I can't (or don't want to) do myself, pick up some tubes or GU or other things.

I am a chef and cook for them all the time and bring it in. They always provide me same day service and help me out. In return, I feed them...well!

I'm nice and friendly to them and sometimes buy small stuff from them that I could have just as easily gotten online for a couple of bucks less, but I can't say I do anything for them. They're ok for me, but I'm not sure that I'd say they go above and beyond to be rewarded. I did try tipping a guy at the hardware shop who has gone above and beyond and he flat out turned me down (he went running in the store looking for the size bolt I needed when my double wide stroller wouldn't fit through their door, then watched the stroller when I went in to pay and has just been generally helpful whenever I visited). I'd thought he might, so at first I tried leaving it for him at the cash register, but the teller told me to ask him about it and he said no thanks.

I've bought two expensive bicycles from a "local" bike shop (70 miles away). I get a modest to good discount on things and can get anything they have in stock in 1 day UPS (thing extra long tandem cables). In turn I've twice on a Saturday following a mechanical problem with our tandem had the owner offer to come pick us up (2-3 hour round trip). Turns out we were able to get going and didn't need the assist, but it's all about service and word-of-mouth advertising especially when you're selling expensive goods.

I agree. Yea, a tip maybe for SERVICE by an individual above and beyond. But the other stuff is very odd to me. It's a flippin' business, not a prom date.

Exactly! I will give a tip at a restaurant even if the waiter not doing a good job. That is the effect of my daughter wearing off on me. She has said to me before, “Daddy you don’t know what is going on in that person’s life or what kind of day they have had and they may need that good tip more than anyone.” She even gets aggravated with me if I take out a calculator to see how much 15% is. However, giving a tip at a bike shop is not going to happen.

Call me cheap if you want to but the only tip a bikes shop will get from me, is that I will return to buy something I need even if it is a little cheaper on line. How, if it is a lot cheaper on line I will order it.

I am a chef and cook for them all the time and bring it in. They always provide me same day service and help me out. In return, I feed them...well!

Nice! :D:thumb::D

I am a chef and cook for them all the time and bring it in. They always provide me same day service and help me out. In return, I feed them...well!

Hello Chef,
My elderly Mom and brother live up in Cherry Hill. I always bring a bike when I come up to visit. What shop do you frequent? I've seen them in Marlton, in Haddonfield, and two on Rt 70 in Cherry Hill. The Marlton one seems most neighborly...

Phil G.

I work disease rides for them.

They've even offered to pay me but I say, "Just give me a T-shirt and I'll wave the flag proudly for you." Then I take my tools and pump out somewhere and set up a pop-up with the LBS logo on it. I pump up tires all day and listen to people tell me that they'll flat more often and won't go nearly as fast if their tires aren't AT LEAST 120 psi and if I don't believe that I must not know what I'm doing.

In return for putting up with that and not killing anybody, the LBS gives me pretty deep discounts on everything that I buy from them.

I buy stuff.

And we have several great bike shops here in Little Rock. So many in fact that I can't get around to all of them in a year's time.

But then again, I think all I've bought in the past year was a replacement tube. The price to pay for being unemployed.

Exactly! I will give a tip at a restaurant even if the waiter not doing a good job. That is the effect of my daughter wearing off on me. She has said to me before, “Daddy you don’t know what is going on in that person’s life or what kind of day they have had and they may need that good tip more than anyone.” She even gets aggravated with me if I take out a calculator to see how much 15% is.

Amazing -both my daughters say the same sort of thing to my wife and me - to the effect "dad, an extra couple of bucks (say the difference between rounding up or down to the nearest $5) isn't anything to you. It is a lot to her." this is assuming he/she has been a good server. And I'll also say, I'm a HUGE sucker if I find the server is a working student. I really over tip a student, having been a poor workign student in my life. I remember what a windfall $5 would mean in those days, and translate it to a generous over-tip in todays dollars if the service is good. I really respect and empathize with someone who's working him/herself through school. Could be a new BS line for a server.


However, giving a tip at a bike shop is not going to happen.

Call me cheap if you want to but the only tip a bikes shop will get from me, is that I will return to buy something I need even if it is a little cheaper on line. How, if it is a lot cheaper on line I will order it.

yea, I mentioned it would really have to be special service in any place other than food service. I have indeed given a tip to any service person who really does an exceptional job that is way beyond what they're getting paid for or really helps me out in a tough situation that they really have no responsibility to rectify... it makes me feel good. But it's rare. Helping you in the store, fixing your bike, being organized and well-scheduled is part of the freaking job, not tip worthy.

Christ, you see tip jars everywhere nowadays in places I have no intention of tipping.

Nothing. I try to stay away from there as best I can . This being Holland, with more bikes than inhabitants, they wont run out of customers. They also charge rip-off prices and do a crappy job. I need to go 7 kilometers to a decent one. All 3 in my direct vicinity are terrible. Something about bike shops in big cities here.

I actually got in a fight once with one of them. I brought them a bike, asked them to repair something but phone me if the cost were over 50 euros. They gave me a call that I could pick up the bike. Turns out they wanted to charge me 110 euros (cost of labor in Holland means you should do it yourself). I told them I was paying 50 max but I was going to take my bike home. Had they notified me like I asked and they agreed on, I would have done it myself instead. The guy became offended and started telling me "that bike is not going anywhere until you payed".

Never set foot in there again. That is my LBS. The worst thing was that I was not even satisfied with the job they did on the bike. But at that point I was done dealing with them.

The other closest LBS to us is almost as bad. My girlfriend was hit by a car, and I took her bike there. He made an estimation of the cost based on everything that needed to be fixed. When I got back, he charged that estimated amount, but a lot of things included in the estimation were left unfixed. I told him to just fix everything, so that bike is safe and comfortable again. When I got back, he charged about double of the original estimation. When I asked why, he said that his original estimation did not include all those things. Even though we elaborately discussed what he would fix the first time around.

The bike shop I now frequently visit, is a lot less busy, knowledgeable about bikes, friendly and they seem to charge about 75% or less consistently for similar jobs. Even though they do a more thorough job and their entire shop seems more high-end. I guess you could say it is a real bike shop rather than just a bunch of people taking advantage of the enormous amount of bikes on the streets here and making a quick buck based on being in a convenient location in the city center. When it comes to these guys, I am willing to support them. I would, for example, consider buying my next bike there rather than somewhere else. Even if that does mean I am paying slightly more for it.

I don't see giving a tip as being necessary. Maybe I am wrong, but a tip is usually given because you know the waiter/waitress that did so well all night is not going to see much of the money the customers are paying. In most countries, they make very little, sometimes even so little that the job only becomes worthwhile because of the tips. I tip them because I feel like they deserve a little extra for the work they do. In a bike shop, the situation is different.

I work at an LBS and we have a customer with a donut shop who brings a dozen fresh donuts when he comes by. From my XC-race videos, people have also deduced that I don't drink beer, but do drink root beer, so I occasionally get treated to some root beer :)

For those who think of the LBS as a generic vending machine where you insert money and get the same exact can of soda that everyone else got... sometimes it's that way. But when it comes to mechanical work, not necessarily. There's discretionary lattitude for some pro bono bonus work, and mechanics frequently use that leeway to your benefit.

There's discretionary lattitude for some pro bono bonus work, and mechanics frequently use that leeway to your benefit.

So in that case do you prefer the tip or when I add some higher margin stuff to the bill that I probably would have otherwise bought online (say stock up on tubes or something). Maybe that depends on whether you're the store owner or the wrench who gets paid by the hour. For me, I prefer buying some extra stuff because I find tipping awkward (unless at a restaurant where it's expected - and even then take out places with the tip jar are awkward for me because I never know how much to give when essentially I do all the service and I'd like them to see me put something in).

So in that case do you prefer the tip or when I add some higher margin stuff to the bill that I probably would have otherwise bought online (say stock up on tubes or something). Maybe that depends on whether you're the store owner or the wrench who gets paid by the hour. For me, I prefer buying some extra stuff because I find tipping awkward (unless at a restaurant where it's expected - and even then take out places with the tip jar are awkward for me because I never know how much to give when essentially I do all the service and I'd like them to see me put something in).

In a retail setting like the LBS, my "tip" is going to be in the form of food, or possibly a gift card/certificate to restaurant. If you build a true relationship with "your" mechanics you will get to know their likes and dislikes. At my LBS of the two that I deal with most, one is a craft beer consumer (like myself) so that is easy, I bring him a bottle or two of something I may have found that I liked. The other doesn't drink, but is a single dad and has two young daughters so I get him gift cert to a restaurant that I know he likes. Come Christmas time, my wife loves making up huge trays of goodies so we always bring one in for the entire staff to enjoy, and they ALWAYS look forward to it. The new people have been told..."just wait until Christmas!" :D

FWIW I have been buying from this particular LBS for over 30 years so they know me and I know them.

Aaron :)

My favorite bike shop is ~32 miles from my door, so it's a nice bike ride to visit them. I don't bring goodies, or tip them, but if I'm going to buy retail, I try to buy from them. I'm normally there on weekends when I have time to visit, so the shop is swamped beyond what the 4-person staff can do (1-2 in front, 1-2 in service).

The other thing that I do is to help customers when they're busy with service, sales, and the phone. I ask customers what they need, explain that the staff is tied up but that I'd be happy to answer any initial questions that they have. Often I can engage the customer in conversation just long enough for the shop owner to break free and join in. I graciously introduce the customer by name and generally say what they're needing. It helps out, I think.

I also offer opinions on whether to service, replace anything that's acting funny on a bike that's brought in. I try to steer them toward merchandise if they're insistent on something new. If they say "I'd like to save money", I steer them toward service/repair, which is generally cheaper but no less profitable for the shop.

I really like those guys and would do anything to help.

I've brought insulated pots of coffee buy the shop on cold days for the staff and customers. (I roast coffee as a hobby and side job). I've sent a lot of people their way.

Its not about charity, its the difference between dealing with a faceless, big-box store that hires the cheapest labor they can get and a local business owner who is a neighbor, a friend, and an important part of the local cycling community.

Its the way business used to be before all our "progress". I remember as a kid, my dad would buy auto parts from a guy he went to high school with that owned the local parts store in town. The owner knew everyone in town and what they drove and her stocked parts for them. He was someone you could trust to advise you on how to fix your car or when to take it to a mechanic, or give it up and get a new one. I knew his kids in school, our lives were interconnected in the community. I know big box retail and online storefronts are more "efficient" when it comes to getting the lowest price, but some of us are willing to pay a little more sometimes for the sense of community and to know that we are supporting our neighbors and friends and fellow cyclists.

What have I done lately for my LBS?

I bought a third bike (and some gear) from them two weeks ago. They've sold me around $1,500 worth of stuff over the last four years.

One really nice thing about living in Australia is that Australians don't tip. It's not part of the culture. If you like a place, you go back there and buy more stuff (food in a restaurant, hardware items at a hardware shop, bicycle accessories at a bicycle shop, etc. etc.). You frequent that business. You tell others about it. If you don't like a place, you don't go back there.

One really nice thing about living in Australia is that Australians don't tip. It's not part of the culture. If you like a place, you go back there and buy more stuff (food in a restaurant, hardware items at a hardware shop, bicycle accessories at a bicycle shop, etc. etc.). You frequent that business. You tell others about it. If you don't like a place, you don't go back there.
I actually don't like tipping either - at least not the 15-20% that is expected, but I'm all for doing nice things for your bike shop. I see them as entirely different things. Wait staff at restaurants and such generally are paid very low wages with the assumption that they make it up in tips. To me this is asking your customers to pay your employees wages. I would much prefer the restaurant owners pay a fair wage and reflect that cost in the price of the food.

I tip 90 percent of time to the wrench because 90 percent of time they don't charge for service. I usually do my own work but sometimes get stumped and use them. They will throw my bike on the rack within minutes, they know I tip. When my last frame came in they built it for free with half my parts and half theirs, I watched because they won't give the lifetime service if I built it. During the build I bought pizza for the shop.

An LBS is a business, not a charity. What if someone asked, what have you done for your local gas station lately? People would laugh.

Now in saying that, there are good LBS shops who deliver good service, fair prices, and are involved in charity rides, and other things. Those deserve to be patronized. And there are some LBS shops that are snobbish, or treat you like your in a car dealership and those can rot into the ground.

Sometimes it is those little extra things you do in this life that pay the greatest dividends... I do not buy much locally since I buy at wholesale but when I need something now and have to swing by the LBS I always get a deep discount because I know most in the cycling community here and have taught a good number of local mechanics through our co-op.

I know that my buddy J likes Boylands root beer when he is at work and after work a pint of Guiness hits the spot, the shop he works at has hooked me up with some sweet parts and is a big supporter of the co-op.

My shop's little beer fridge is rarely empty as my customers and friends keep it stocked.

I've brought insulated pots of coffee buy the shop on cold days for the staff and customers. (I roast coffee as a hobby and side job). I've sent a lot of people their way.

Its not about charity, its the difference between dealing with a faceless, big-box store that hires the cheapest labor they can get and a local business owner who is a neighbor, a friend, and an important part of the local cycling community.

Its the way business used to be before all our "progress". I remember as a kid, my dad would buy auto parts from a guy he went to high school with that owned the local parts store in town. The owner knew everyone in town and what they drove and her stocked parts for them. He was someone you could trust to advise you on how to fix your car or when to take it to a mechanic, or give it up and get a new one. I knew his kids in school, our lives were interconnected in the community. I know big box retail and online storefronts are more "efficient" when it comes to getting the lowest price, but some of us are willing to pay a little more sometimes for the sense of community and to know that we are supporting our neighbors and friends and fellow cyclists.

Also by purchasing from locally owned businesses you keep more money in the local economy. IIRC the numbers are something like 68% if spent at a local store versus 43% at a national chain store.

Aaron :)

If somebody goes way and beyond over what their job description, I make sure to get them something. Bottle of wine, six pack of beer, cookies for Christmas. Nothing over the top, just something to show I appreciate they went an extra mile for me. If somebody orders something for me and it arrives promptly, I make sure to at least find them and say how much I appreciate it. These are all small gestures, but always appreciated and when I need something done last minute, I know they will look after me not matter how busy they are. It's been almost 10 years since we bought our bikes there, and we still get amazing service.

And it's not the same as buying a pair of shoes or a shirt at some store. A good relationship with LBS is worth every penny and more.

I bought a new tire. When I left the shop the owner was out front selling a bike to a woman. I stopped to check the bike out. The guy looked at me as if to say F/off. 8-|

One really nice thing about living in Australia is that Australians don't tip. It's not part of the culture. If you like a place, you go back there and buy more stuff (food in a restaurant, hardware items at a hardware shop, bicycle accessories at a bicycle shop, etc. etc.). You frequent that business. You tell others about it. If you don't like a place, you don't go back there.

That may be the reason why in the restaurant where one of my daughters works, Aussies are generally detested. Most are loud, obnoxious and then they don't tip. She tells me that the waitresses beg her not to send the Aussie tourists to their tables. Interestingly enough, she says that German tourists are the best followed by Canadians and BIG SHOCK, the French.

Machka, I read your post about being ignored at a bike shop because of your gender. I have three daughters and all ride bikes. None has ever reported being ignored at a bike shop or a car mechanic shop for that matter. At the LBS where I shop, the mechanic and the sales staff are super helpful to female customers, especially to newbies.

Perhaps your situation is an aberration or Australian bike shops have a hyper macho attitude when it comes to female riders. I like to think that we are a bit more enlightened in California. Seeing as how women have control of most household discretionary purchases, the shops that you mentioned in your ought ought to smarten up.

An LBS is a business, not a charity. What if someone asked, what have you done for your local gas station lately? People would laugh.

Now in saying that, there are good LBS shops who deliver good service, fair prices, and are involved in charity rides, and other things. Those deserve to be patronized. And there are some LBS shops that are snobbish, or treat you like your in a car dealership and those can rot into the ground.

Back in the good old days, the local car mechanic also operated a gas station. He and my dad did business for years. My dad would do little things like bring them coffee and donuts. In return the mechanic did good by my dad. One time, when my father's own business was suffering through a bad time, the mechanic put a new battery in my dad's station wagon and did not charge my dad. My dad paid him when he was able to, but in the meantime he had a "free" battery.

You may laugh at the question, but many people would not. I miss the old days.

I bought a new tire. When I left the shop the owner was out front selling a bike to a woman. I stopped to check the bike out. The guy looked at me as if to say F/off. 8-|

That's funny. :)