Commuting - Why so upset about drafting?

Can someone please explain why some folks get so up in arms about drafting (aka wheel sucking), while using a heavily traveled commuting trail? He's the deal. Today and also a month or so ago, I was passed by someone while commuting on a trail. After passing me they pretty much continued at tempo to what I was riding. So, I draft off of them assuming the are my level and we could take turns. But, no less than a mile later each individual started to get all pi$$ed off, try to waive me off and yell and scream.

What's the deal? Am I crazy? They passed me and then basically plopped right in front of me. Am I to stop dead, wait a minute so they can get far enough ahead of me? I mean what gives. I've been a commuter for close to 12 years now, and I NEVER have a problem with people on wheel. It's just common courtesy, with the knowledge that some day you'll need a pull.

PS, I ALWAYS thank folks who give me a pull and to a man/woman they appreciate being able to help.

I'm confused.

on MUPs (or really anywhere for that matter) i won't get closer than 5 bike lengths behind a stranger.

drafting is a relationship built on trust; i don't trust strangers.

if a rider is holding me back, then i pass.

if a rider is trying to draft me, i'll slow to let them pass.

i generally ride fast enough that i rarely encounter either situation.

If they passed you and then slowed down I don't know. If you sneak up behind them and then latch on without them knowing you're back there, I could sort of see it because if they don't know you, you could be a danger to them if your wheels overlap and then they make a sudden move to get around a pothole or road debris without knowing you're back there (or suddenly break and your ride up on them). But if they pass you then slow down, they should know you're back there.

In general though, I think the drafter is at more risk than the draftee.

Some people also just like their personal space and if you've invaded their comfort zone, they may just want you out. A lot of us ride for the alone time (if I commute by public transit instead I'm packed in like a sardine in a bus, train or subway most of the time; I interact with people all day at work; and I'm busy with the kids as soon as I get home). For some of us, cycling isn't a social activity, it's a time to decompress.

Fair enough Steely. I'll use your rule of thumb from now on. It just all seems so petty to me really.

Also, unless you're doing 20 mph or so, the benefits gained by drafting are minimal at best, so there's no point for drafting me (or me drafting someone) on most of my commutes unless there's a great wind.

I had a guy draft me commuting to college. I came to a stop (at a stop sign) and he plowed into me slicing my leg. Since then I've been wary about draftees. Maybe something like this happened to your guy.

The odd thing about my incident is the guy went down. As he was laying on the ground, I asked him what he thought he was doing when some girls gave me a hard time for harassing him.

My point exactly himespau. And yes he knew I was back there. And yes, it was clear I was not threat to him. But, like mentioned before, I'll just gap it from now on. But, it's still seems silly to me.

And also, yes, I was going b/w 20-22mph. So, there is something to be gained there. But, I really don't care. It's just that we were both essentially going the same pace. If the guy had some issue with me behind him how about he get behind me. Like I said, I have no issues with pulling.

Anyway, thanks for the other side of the fence perspective. I may either keep my distance from now on or at least ask if ppl are cool with me sitting on for a while. But can now appreciate what may be going in these ppl's heads. Though I still don't fully understand it.

Yeah I don't want some stranger all up my butt either. Same way on the highway in my car. Pass me dammit! Don't ride on my damn bumper!

Around here, commuter drafting is a pretty common practice and accepted by most. If someone indicates they don't want you there, pass or back off. If drafting is in any way unsafe or unwelcome, cease and desist. If someone gets all aggravated about it, which is extremely rare, it is indicative of a personality disorder. The only time I don't like being drafted is if the drafter has a really bright light that casts a shadow in front of me.

As a newbie I can say that the draftee may not know the difference between drafting and tailgating...

But Patrick, in all fairness, he passed me and sat down in front of me. It was clear he was pulling some kinda ego trip and when he saw I was behind him he got all upset that he couldn't "drop me". Like Alan said, it seems more like a personality disorder. But, again like I said. I'll take all these points under advisement.

PS, this was in the DMV area, so Alan just confirmed my point.

But Patrick, in all fairness, he passed me and sat down in front of me. It was clear he was pulling some kinda ego trip and when he saw I was behind him he got all upset that he couldn't "drop me". Like Alan said, it seems more like a personality disorder. But, again like I said. I'll take all these points under advisement.

PS, this was in the DMV area, so Alan just confirmed my point.

I understand your situation, but I was saying under normal circumstances I wouldn't want someone on my tail.

I wouldn't draft on someone I didn't know for fear they might have a personality disorder

Drafting is generally a race or group-ride activity, IMHO.

If a stranger starts drafting me and hugging my wheel for a while, I start to get peeved - and here's why:
When you're not expecting a drafter, having one back there is like having a deer fly constantly buzzing around your head... Always there in the peripheral.
What If I need to brake suddenly, or dodge an obstacle? Having some stranger right behind me is very unnerving - did they see me stop suddenly? How good are their brakes and reactions?
So what was a nice bike ride is now occupied with thoughts of this person creaming me from behind if something runs in front of me.

I don't race, and I don't participate in group-rides or any cycling activity where drafting is a concern - I suspect most people I see commuting on the paths don't either, just my two cents worth, but probably a lot of people don't like someone they don't know riding very close to them due to this, and they may not even realize you're "drafting" and not just trying to be a jerk and ride their wheel.

Some people are just jerks. That being said, I usually don't come across situations like this when I'm (rarely) on a MUP. If I'm coming up on someone and I'm nearly maxed and barely catching them, etiquette tells me to drop speed a bit and hang off at least until I'm ready to sprint past and put some distance between the two of us. Sometimes when people ride really close behind me (I rarely go fast enough on a MUP commute home/to work to benefit from drafting) it's aggravating. Sometimes I just want to cruise along and having someone that close makes me feel the need to push it. Sounds like that one guy is just being silly though. Some people feel like they always HAVE to be in the front so odds are he busted it out to pass you and then realized he couldn't sustain without realizing you were hauling at a sustainable speed for your abiilty. ? Who knows!

I dont see it as a big deal either. I think people are extremely territorial and need their space. Ive been drafted tons and i actually like the fact im helping other riders out. It makes me think im a good rider and i try a little harder. But some people are on the other side of that thinking, i can see why someone thinks its rude. But its hardly worth getting your panties in a bunch over.

1.) Try pulling for a change, you'll see why it pisses some people off.

2.) If I know you even at least a little I probably wouldn't care, but I've had total strangers who were yo-yoing down the road suddenly jump on my tail when I passed them. The first time it happened, I couldn't figure out why it felt like I was riding through cement, until I looked back and found that I was dragging the yo-yo brigade behind me, at a much high pace than they seemingly could maintain on their own.

Planned Group rides?, fine, I'll take a turn pulling, but if I'm riding solo for a purpose, like trying to beat a time or distance, OR even getting getting someplace before a deadline, I don't feel like dragging a boat anchor behind me.

3.) Plus, I don't expect to get a bicycle enema from an unknown rider when I'm out riding. At least have the courtesy to announce yourself if you don't have a standing arrangement.

Did the person that passed you actually slow down, or did you speed up slightly.
Sometimes ego is on the other shoe.
I know I have an urge to step it up if someone passes me, and have to restrain myself a bit.

Is it possible that at first you were going slower than he and once he passed you you picked up pace THEN drafted off him? I have noticed that I sometimes will speed up a bit once someone passes me, subconsciously but it does happen. If you were both going the same pace then how did he catch and pass you?

For me, I would not be too thrilled if someone latched onto my wheel. I ride alone all the time so I may not remember someone was back there and not announce my intentions so clearly then it could be a huge wreck. Besides I am cruising at 13 mph or so no big benefit to draft me.

PS, I ALWAYS thank folks who give me a pull and to a man/woman they appreciate being able to help.

if you end up on the same streets & route with familiar faces, daily,

then take a turn at the front..

1.) Try pulling for a change, you'll why it pisses some people off.

2.) If I know you even at least a little I probably wouldn't care, but I've had total strangers who were yo-yoing down the road suddenly jump on my tail when I passed them. The first time it happened, I couldn't figure out why it felt like I was riding through cement, until I looked back and found that I was dragging the yo-yo brigade behind me, at a much high pace than they seemingly could maintain on their own.

Planned Group rides?, fine, I'll take a turn pulling, but if I'm riding solo for a purpose, like trying to beat a time or distance, OR even getting getting someplace before a deadline, I don't feel like dragging a boat anchor behind me.

3.) Plus, I don't expect to get a bicycle enema from an unknown rider when I'm out riding. At least have the courtesy to announce yourself if you don't have a standing arrangement.

1.) Like I said earlier, I don't have ANY problem pulling. In fact I end up doing at least 2-4 times a week. And as other's mentioned I actually take pleasure out of the feeling I'm helping someone.

2.) I again point out, in this situation I was riding tempo he passed and then got upset I was behind him. HE PASSED ME. If he has some issue with unknowns behind him then stay behind. Like someone said, some folks just want to in front all the time. To continue with the flawed car analogy ppl are using, it's like sitting in the left lane going 55 only after having passing someone going 65.

3.) It was clear the dude knew I was back there, b/c again...he passed me. I did not sneak up on him.

Stealth drafting on a commute? Get off my butt. Not on a MUP. You are in someones personal space.

if you end up on the same route with familiar faces, daily ,
then take a turn at the front..

Believe me I will and will continue to do so.

But, I bet he'll just get all pi$$ed. And also 9 out 10 times I don't see these same riders again, b/c it's only day or week of the year they came outside b/c it's either too hot or cold all the other months of the year. But, this has gotten so out of control.

It's all really silly. But, the lesson I've learned here is that there are some really fragile egos out there and it's best to just sit up and leave these folks alone to ride in there nihilistic existence. It'll be much easier on my constitution.

Again thanks to all for their various opinions. I'm done.

There's a guy I see every so often on the CCT riding at about my pace or slightly faster. He starts spitting if you come anywhere near. Definitely steer clear of these types.

You should always ask if you can draft. You are invading their space really and like many people have said, drafting is built on a trust relationship and it is too easy to cross tires and crash so it is important to always ask...and pull your own weight. So if the person says yes to drafting then make sure they know you can pull too.

My point exactly himespau. And yes he knew I was back there. And yes, it was clear I was not threat to him. But, like mentioned before, I'll just gap it from now on. But, it's still seems silly to me.

Yes you were... If something jumps up on the trail and he slows quickly and you're not paying attention, this could happen:


I had a guy draft me commuting to college. I came to a stop (at a stop sign) and he plowed into me slicing my leg.

He doesn't know you. Personal space and all that, hmmm?

1.) Try pulling for a change, you'll see why it pisses some people off.

2.) If I know you even at least a little I probably wouldn't care, but I've had total strangers who were yo-yoing down the road suddenly jump on my tail when I passed them. The first time it happened, I couldn't figure out why it felt like I was riding through cement, until I looked back and found that I was dragging the yo-yo brigade behind me, at a much high pace than they seemingly could maintain on their own.
1) The OP already said that he never has a problem when people draft behind him.

2) Unless the person behind is attaching a rope or bungee cord to your bike, there's no way that he'll be slowing you down. In theory there's even a very small benefit to the person in front since the person behind is filling in what would otherwise be a slightly lower air pressure space - but I doubt this effect would be measurable at bicycle speeds (it has been observed in car racing).

Being concerned that the person in back might run into you if you need to stop or swerve is valid. Feeling that they are somehow slowing you down is not.

There's a guy I see every so often on the CCT riding at about my pace or slightly faster. He starts spitting if you come anywhere near. Definitely steer clear of these types.

Aw, man Alan. I hope that's not me. I have a tendency to spit a lot, but only because it's a tick since I'm a heavy sweater and get get all manner of leftover hair gel and bugs in my mouth. I also have jacked up sinuses and am a phlegmy mess in the A.M. But, I also always move outta the way when I know someone is behind me... at least I try.

1.) 2.) If I know you even at least a little I probably wouldn't care, but I've had total strangers who were yo-yoing down the road suddenly jump on my tail when I passed them. The first time it happened, I couldn't figure out why it felt like I was riding through cement, until I looked back and found that I was dragging the yo-yo brigade behind me, at a much high pace than they seemingly could maintain on their own.


So riding with somebody drafting off of you causes more resistance than riding by yourself? I've never drafted nor been drafted, but I would not have expected that. Or did I misunderstand you?

So riding with somebody drafting off of you causes more resistance than riding by yourself? I've never drafted nor been drafted, but I would not have expected that. Or did I misunderstand you?
Actually to the contrary, riding in a pace line creates a more efficient riding circumstance for all vehicles involved and; depending on the speed, can improve the lead's aerodynamics.

Yes you were... If something jumps up on the trail and he slows quickly and you're not paying attention, this could happen:



He doesn't know you. Personal space and all that, hmmm?

Wrong. You don't know how I ride. When I'm behind someone I am hyper aware of the road ahead of me and the rider in front of me. I won't even look down at my bike computer. If I see even the hint of an issue I drop back. In 12 years of commuting and drafting I have NEVER, repeat never touched a wheel, or hit someone.

But, again back to my point. There are some super sensitive riders out there and I will be more sensitive to their soft dispositions.

You don't know how I ride.

EXACTLY. And the guy you're drafting doesn't know how you ride either. So he's right to want his personal space. Lay off him already.

1) Drafting can be dangerous if both of you are not paying attention. It can also be intimidating to the rider in front. You don't draft when you drive, do you?

2) Some people like to ride by themselves. I'm one of them. I don't draft others and don't want to be drafted. That said, if I pass someone and later notice that I'm being drafted, I'll just slow down enough so they pass. I've had people who were so adamant about drafting me that I had to pull over and stop to get them to go by. That's annoying.

EXACTLY. And the guy you're drafting doesn't know how you ride either.


So, don't pass me and then slow down, b/c I too don't know how you ride. If anything ride along side me when you realize we are riding tempo. But I see by the size of your font it may be falling on deaf ears.

But more to your point . I am never "not paying attention". I take the responsibility of riding a bike very seriously and treat it as such. So no argument there.

But the guy in front doesn't know that you are "never 'not paying attention'." He doesn't know anything about you, or what to expect from you. Maybe he's never ridden a paceline and doesn't know any conventions for riding that close. Maybe he wonders whether you know any conventions for drafting. It is perfectly reasonably for the guy to not want you on his wheel. The argument is not about how you ride; it's about what the other guy doesn't know about you or what to expect.

If he slowed down after passing you and you catch up, simply pass him back and move on.

1.) Try pulling for a change, you'll see why it pisses some people off.

2.) If I know you even at least a little I probably wouldn't care, but I've had total strangers who were yo-yoing down the road suddenly jump on my tail when I passed them. The first time it happened, I couldn't figure out why it felt like I was riding through cement, until I looked back and found that I was dragging the yo-yo brigade behind me, at a much high pace than they seemingly could maintain on their own.

Planned Group rides?, fine, I'll take a turn pulling, but if I'm riding solo for a purpose, like trying to beat a time or distance, OR even getting getting someplace before a deadline, I don't feel like dragging a boat anchor behind me.

3.) Plus, I don't expect to get a bicycle enema from an unknown rider when I'm out riding. At least have the courtesy to announce yourself if you don't have a standing arrangement.

How does them drafting you slow you down?

How does them drafting you slow you down?

Latched on with tractor beams emanating from their foreheads.

Spagball, this kind of thing has happened to me many times. I'll be cruising along at my normal commuter pace, somebody huffs and puffs up from behind, passes... and then dies. I pass him, same speed. After a while he's back, and either drafts me, or passes and then dies again. This annoys me more than having someone simply draft me, which also happens.

In the former case, I'll pick up the pace a bit and leave the other rider behind. Or else stop for a minute someplace to let him get far enough ahead I won't have to worry. For the steady drafters, I don't mind. There's nothing I can do about it.

The absolute cake-taking situation was some years back when I was riding home from doing a sand sculpture. I'm on my old mountain bike, towing a Bikes At Work 64" trailer with all of my sand sculpture kit on it. Roughly 100 pounds. Some kid on a rented three-wheeler passes me, then sharply cuts over and slams on the brakes. Then he looks back as I go to max braking to keep from hitting him. He did this a couple more times. Again, there was nothing I could do but just keep going, and be glad of good brakes.

So, yes, there are jerks out there. At all speeds.

Why don't you just communicate with them before latching on? Seems a pretty simple/obvious solution.

So, don't pass me and then slow down, b/c I too don't know how you ride. If anything ride along side me when you realize we are riding tempo. But I see by the size of your font it may be falling on deaf ears.

But more to your point . I am never "not paying attention". I take the responsibility of riding a bike very seriously and treat it as such. So no argument there.
I see two problems in this story, problem 1 is needless passing, problem 2 is you can't grasp why even YOU aren't to be trusted by STRANGERS while drafting.

You should always ask if you can draft. You are invading their space really and like many people have said, drafting is built on a trust relationship and it is too easy to cross tires and crash so it is important to always ask...and pull your own weight. So if the person says yes to drafting then make sure they know you can pull too.

This.

I would never just sit down at a table at a party with a conversation ongoing - I'd say "mind if I join you?"

A simple "mind if I join for a bit? I'll pull my share" makes inroads and also shows that you are trustworthy in a paceline (only do so if you've done enough paceline work to feel comfortable with it and know the typical rotations). If they say no, then either pass or drop back a bit - no worries.

I raced for many years (no longer into it), and have spent many hours in pacelines and packs. That said, I have a great deal of hesitance to draft or be drafted in groups of strangers in a non-training context. There is 0 reaction time, and it is something that requires trust of one another and acquired skills. It is dramatically more dangerous to ride in a tight group than solo.
Granted, some people are edgier about it than others, but try to see it from their perspective. There are plenty of jackasses out there, and you probably found some, but made things worse by not being proactive in engaging them.

Finally, I'd personally never consider drafting on a MUP. Pretty risky IMO.

So, to me the lesson learned here is ask for permission before assuming entitlement - it is common courtesy.

OP, for your next thread, ask why people don't wave back when you wave to them. We haven't done that in a little while.

I had a pace line pass me once, gave me all of a foot of pavement to ride with and the first rider to pass cut me off and then slowed 3 mph. I was trapped but not for long, I veered left, made a hole and re-passed the first rider. to this I was told I was a dangerous rider. I said yep and get near me again and I'll show you how dangerous I could get.


then another time I was drafted for twenty miles by a guy I just couldn't shake but I didn't really care. he wasn't slowing me down and I figured he made it easier for cars to pass us safely. would have been nice if he thanked me.

Personal space and all that, hmmm?

This is it for me. If I'm on a crowded bus I expect people to be pressing against me, but if there are just a couple of us walking down the sidewalk I expect people to keep their distance. Likewise with the bike. If I'm racing or doing a group ride I expect people to be right on my wheel, but if I'm commuting I expect people to give me space.

Look at the question from the other POV. Why would anyone ever draft someone while commuting? I don't think there's a defensible reason to do it. Think about the explanation of drafting that TdF race announcer give for the benefit of American audiences and try applying that explanation to commuting. Then think about a crash like the one that took Samuel Sanchez out of the TdF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKwYpTSlXzY) a couple of days ago.

Why not just ask?

Why would anyone ever draft someone while commuting? I don't think there's a defensible reason to do it.

Commuters around here draft all the time. It's more efficient and fun. Almost no one gives it a second thought, but there are the occasional few who appear to want to ride alone, and are left to do so. Perhaps there are more cyclists here going the same direction with simliar level of fitness who actually want to ride in a mini paceline. Maybe people in larger metropolitan areas are used to more crowded quarters. Who knows?

There's a guy I see every so often on the CCT riding at about my pace or slightly faster. He starts spitting if you come anywhere near. Definitely steer clear of these types.

He wouldnt want to start spitin around a few folks i know. He'd be spittin blood fairly quickly lol.

... It's all really silly. But, the lesson I've learned here is that there are some really fragile egos out there and it's best to just sit up and leave these folks alone to ride in there nihilistic existence. It'll be much easier on my constitution.

Again thanks to all for their various opinions. I'm done.

No need to get upset; there are quite a few here agreeing with you, including me. I don't mind someone drafting me as long as they're aware that I'm not quite as wanton around families and joggers as they may be accustomed.

Every once in awhile I'll pull up behind someone who passed me earlier and is going just a shade slower than I wanted. I'll rest in the draft - no big deal in my opinion - and then usually go around.

I think we dun skeered Spagball off.