Commuting - Trek SOHO Deluxe VS. Raleigh Cadent I8

I am trying to decide which bike to get. Both of them has a internal hub, 700 x 32 tires, and weight around the same. Of course the big difference is the price, and brand name. But what do you guys think?
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http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/urban_utility/soho/soho_deluxe/#

and
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http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/performance-hybrid/cadent-i8-12/260995

The Trek has what some would consider a better shifter.

It also has disc brakes, fenders, a rack and is belt drive. It's up to you to decide if that is enough to justify the $500 difference in price.

I personally like the look of the Trek better :)

What are your needs and preferences?
- Disc brakes? (marginal benefit in dry climes, arguably better in wet/snowy conditions)
- Fenders and rack? - these are equipped on the Trek, but would be adders (to the cost) on the Raleigh
- Is the belt drive something you wish to try? It is a viable drive train, particularly in wet or snowy climates, but not particularly better (or worse) than a chain in dry climates

The sliding dropouts on the Trek are (IMO) preferable to the semi-horizontal standard dropouts on the Raleigh - rear wheel changes and chain tensioning are more easily accommodated with the sliders.

Either bike would be a great commuter.

Add to your list:
- Giant Seek 0 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/seek/9016/48859/)
- Scott Sub 10 (http://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/products/221820/sub-10/;jsessionid=046412CB9EF3489966189990232ABBC0) the 2012 model has gotten kind of flashy for my tastes, but it is a great bike, none the less.
- Brodie Ocho (http://www.brodiebikes.com/2012/bikes/ocho.php) - I really like these - very nice bike for the money IMO

I got to test ride the Trek, but can't find a place to see or ride the Raleigh (I live in NYC, so sad.). The Trek rode great, if it wasn't for the price I would have bought it already. That's the million dollar question, is the brand name worth the extra $500. From what I could see the bikes are very much alike, except for the brakes(clamp vs. disk), belt (vs. chain), shifter (trigger vs. revo), and extras that are included with the Trek (the rack I can buy). The frames and hubs are very much the same. I just want a new bike, itching to ride a new bike.

Thanks for the extra bikes to consider canyoneagle. Honestly I don't even know what you are talking about with the sliding dropouts. The belt drive seems cool, it will keep my dress pants from getting dirty, and less maintenance overall. I do like the trigger shifter.

I got to test ride the Trek, but can't find a place to see or ride the Raleigh (I live in NYC, so sad.). The Trek rode great, if it wasn't for the price I would have bought it already. That's the million dollar question, is the brand name worth the extra $500. From what I could see the bikes are very much alike, except for the brakes(clamp vs. disk), belt (vs. chain), shifter (trigger vs. revo), and extras that are included with the Trek (the rack I can buy). The frames and hubs are very much the same. I just want a new bike, itching to ride a new bike.

The extra $500 gets you some features that are worthy improvements over the Raleigh, such as excellent disc brakes, belt drive, fenders, and rack. Raleigh makes a good bike, too so it is not so much about the name as it is the features. A comparable rack and fender setup would run you $100 alone, if you desired those for the raleigh.

I've ridden with the first generation (pre-centertrac) belt drive, and I quite liked it. The system is very smooth, and the belt is much cleaner than a chain - virtually 0 drive train maintenance other than the occasional wipe down with a wet rag. I've since gone back to a chain since I live in the high desert and semi-arid alpine environment of Western Colorado.

On the dropout thing, the rear "dropouts" are where the rear wheel axle fits into the frame. There are different kinds:

Horizontal Dropout: the "slot" for the axle angles towards the front of the bicycle. This allows the rear wheel position to be adjusted, so is beneficial for non-derailleur applications (such as single speed -SS- or Internally Geared Hub -IGH-) where the chain makes a simple loop from the front chainring to the rear cog, and the fore-aft positioning allows you to fine tune the tension. The drawback is that it takes some practice to properly do this.

Vertical dropout: these are probably the most commonly encountered type, where the "axle slot" is vertical - the position of the wheel is fixed, so it is not typically suitable for SS or IGH.

Track end: This is a horizontal "rear fork" that is common on track bicycles, urban "fixie" bikes and some utility/multi-use bikes:
Here's a link (http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/chain_length/bicycle_frame_dropouts.html) to a basic overview with som pics

The sliding dropouts are essentially vertical dropouts that are part of an adjustable assembly that allows forward and rearward movement of the axle location via a screw tensioner. Here is a pic of the Soho (not 2012):

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Here's another type of sliding dropout:
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I got to test ride the Trek.... The Trek rode great...

If I said that about a bike that was available at my LBS and the cost didn't hurt, I'd buy it. You'll long forget the cost if you have a bike that you love.

The Trek is the better bike, no doubt about that but the question is can you afford it and how much are the extras the Trek has worth the extra money for your purposes. If it's a bit on the expensive side perhaps you should look at another bike in the Trek line, I'm sure they have a lower priced bike that would suit your needs. Then again, I'm partial to Treks.:)

Trust me I love the Trek, I just don't want it to be a impulse purchase that I regret later. But then the argument goes also if I buy something cheaper I will regret not getting something I really want and settling for something inferior. I don't see anything else from Trek that has a internal hub, so I don't think there are any other choices from Trek. I also checked Specialized and Cannondale and I don't see anything with a internal hub.

I haven't seen the Trek (We own 3, a 1000SL and 520 for me and a 7.5 FX WSD for the wife) but I have been commuting from the train station to Fort Belvoir with a guy who rides the I8. He really likes it. His only comment has been he'd like a lower and higher gear "sometimes". But then again he went from buying a $200 Army PX bike that the pedal fell off on his 2nd day of commuting to buying the Raleigh from our LBS.
One of the first things I did this spring was install planet Bike fenders on my commuter, a Trek 520.

Trust me I love the Trek, I just don't want it to be a impulse purchase that I regret later. But then the argument goes also if I buy something cheaper I will regret not getting something I really want and settling for something inferior. I don't see anything else from Trek that has a internal hub, so I don't think there are any other choices from Trek. I also checked Specialized and Cannondale and I don't see anything with a internal hub.

Here ya go:
Specialized has a line known as "Globe"
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/globe/live/live3
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/globe/live/live2

I think the Raleigh model spec'd closer to the Trek SOHO deluxe is the Detour City Sport DLX. No belt drive though.

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/detour-city-sport-dlx-12/

The bike tricked out with all the latest components that seems to be a great value is the Novara Gotham.

http://www.rei.com/product/825377/novara-gotham-bike-2012

By now shops that didn't do a pre-season order, to have it in stock,
may not be able to get some of those.

I think the SOHO's sell out fast. check with your LBS..

Trust me I love the Trek, I just don't want it to be a impulse purchase that I regret later. But then the argument goes also if I buy something cheaper I will regret not getting something I really want and settling for something inferior. I don't see anything else from Trek that has a internal hub, so I don't think there are any other choices from Trek. I also checked Specialized and Cannondale and I don't see anything with a internal hub.

If lack of internal hub is a deal breaker then I'd probably get the Raleigh. If internal hub isn't a deal breaker the the Trek PDX would probably work for you.

Just a update, I ended up picking the Trek. I was able to find a used one on Craigslist. So far it rides really nice, hopefully I'll be able to make some changes to the bike.

Awesome! Congrats!

Pics!

:)

Cool! Do you know which year? I looked at those in the past and it seems like they had different hubs.

Cool! Do you know which year? I looked at those in the past and it seems like they had different hubs.

The first version (2007/2008 or so?) had roller brakes before the "deluxe" version with discs and the centertrac belt system was introduced (not sure when).

If the OP's new ride does not have the centertrac, it's no real big deal, but the new system is better from what I've read. Plus a conversion could be done at a later date (albeit at a cost).

Here are a few picture that I took.


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Grats on the new ride! It looks sharp!

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Those are the pedal the guy had on the bike, I need to get toe clips if I keep using these
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This is something I didn't like about the bike. The plastic pieces that they used on the frame are coming off, and the guy that sold it to me glue gun it back on.
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These are the handle bars it came with, I think I want to change it to bullhorns in reverse. I have to see if I can fit the shifter and brakes onto a bullhorn. What do you guys think?
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I'm not a bullhorn fan - they are largely for a more aggressive cycling position, and are more limited in options (hand positions) than other options. Plus, I do not believe that there are presently options for hydraulic brake levers on bullhorns or drops (different diameter than flat bars, so incompatible with flat bar levers). I'm not sure what you mean by "reversed". If this indicates swept back towards you, then there are bar options available. As an alternate to forward facing bullhorns, consider a flat bar with bar ends, consider a "combo" bar

Multi-position bars are popular with commuters - Trekking (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3731395940_0ee6d184ee_b.jpg) Bars, Alternative (http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html) bars of various (http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222337404/79/OnOne-Mary-Bar.html) types, or stick with the ones you have. There are many options.

Here's an idea of the array: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=1678
Again, bear in mind that you will need to stick with "MTB" spec bars that are compatible with your brake levers and shifters.
Here's a good overview: http://sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

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I don't know if it looks right being that it's a bad drawing, but I want the bullhorn like that. I want the horns at a 45 degree angle that way I can have the shifter and brake pedal flat or -15 degrees so it doesn't hit the horns. Does that make sense?

oh I also have to change the saddle, the one it came with suck. Five minutes sitting on the seat and it's annoying me. I think I want a Brooks Saddle B17 Special, currently I am using a regular B17 on my Dahon Eco6. Oh and to totally geek it off, I think I want to install lights that fit at the ends of the bullhorns.

So, that's a DLX, correct? Looks great!

yeah, some places use Deluxe and some use DLX. I still need some changes to make it feel mine. Ok I have a new question. How do you make these brakes more responsive? It seems like there is a delay or I have to press hard to brake. Do I just have to tighten the cable or what else?

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I don't know if it looks right being that it's a bad drawing, but I want the bullhorn like that. I want the horns at a 45 degree angle that way I can have the shifter and brake pedal flat or -15 degrees so it doesn't hit the horns. Does that make sense?
Whoah. That looks pretty non-functional if I am interpreting it correctly. It looks like the brake levers would be hard to access like that, and having the "horns" at such an extreme angle reduces the functionality/purpose of having them.
I think a flat bar with long bar-ends or a trekking bar will approximate what you are looking for in a more functional way.

Trekking bar
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Flat bar / bar ends:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/2563762936_afebf96ea0.jpg

DO NOT get the belt driven Trek if there is snow where you live and you ride in the winter.

canyoneagle- I guess I should rethink that bullhorn idea. If no one tried it, there must be a reason. I was just being weirdly creative, and trying to stand out.

doc0c- Too late about that. I still have another bike that I use, a fold-able. I don't usually ride when there is snow on the ground anyways. What's wrong with a belt driven in the snow?

New Update: I ordered my Brooks Saddle B17 Special for this bike, can't wait to get that on
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This is what I think I will get for my bike handles.

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Looks like those are good options for grips and bar ends. The current handlebar, being one with some "sweep", may warrant replacement with a more typical mountain bike "flat" bar, cut to your preferred width. You'll need to ensure the clamp diameter (where the bars mount to the stem) is correct for the stem.

I think doc's comment comes from the first generation belt system, where snow could pack up in the rear cog. I rode mine year round and never had this happen, as have many others with no issues. A few folks encountered the issue, but it is not as bad as doc implies. It is similar to someone saying "don't buy a carbon fiber frame because it will break". Just because some people had an issue does not mean you will.
In fact, I found the belt system to be BETTER in snowy conditions than a chain for numerous reasons.

Regardless, this has been rectified with a new rear cog design, and the snow thing is not an issue with centertrac. You can tell if you have centertrac by looking at the belt itself. If the teeth are solid all the way across, you do not have centertrac. If the teeth have a groove running down the center, then you have centertrac. Here's a pic of a centertrac belt:
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The final thing I'd mention is that if you have the original drive system (1st generation), the original rear cog was made of aluminum, and can (will) strip at the interface with the hub. Gates will send you a new steel cog free of charge. Simply send Gates an e-mail and request a replacement free of charge. You or your LBS can swap the cogs in less than 30 minutes, and you are set to go, with two issues solved (snow packing and the weak cog).

canyoneagle-I took a look at my bike and the belt doesn't have a strip in the middle guess I have the first generation belt. So how do I get a new cog? what's the e-mail address?

I am so excited today, my saddle comes in today. I hope they leave it at my door so I don't have to pick it up at the post office. I want it today.

canyoneagle-I took a look at my bike and the belt doesn't have a strip in the middle guess I have the first generation belt. So how do I get a new cog? what's the e-mail address?

I am so excited today, my saddle comes in today. I hope they leave it at my door so I don't have to pick it up at the post office. I want it today.

Here you go :thumb:
http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/
Just send an e-mail to them mentioning your bike model, and that you are needing a steel cog to replace your aluminum one before it fails. Also mention that it is a 1st generation (non centertrac) drive.

FWIW if you ever do want to convert to centertrac, it would come at a price - you'd need a new front cog (chainring), rear cog and belt.

Ok, got some new picture to post. (Had the worst weekend, left my cell at work and couldn't get it till this morning.)

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The only thing I didn't get was the new grips, didn't have enough money for everything. I am still waiting for my lights to ship, I'm going with the Planet Bike Blaze 1-Watt Headlight & Superflash Taillight combo. I also got a chain installed for my Brooks Saddle. Things get stolen in NYC too easily, and I love that saddle.

Looks good. I use the PB light combo and it works well for me.

I have a Trek Soho 2011 deluxe which I bought almost a year ago and it's mostly done very well, the integrated gear hub and carbon belt drive were very appealing and after cycling every day to work in all conditions including snow (the belt stayed on, my bigger concern was keeping the bike upright!) it's got me back and home.

How do you find third, fourth and fifth gear on your bike? The only issue I have is that while fifth gear is very smooth (I believe it's the direct drive gear), fourth is not smooth at all. There's a grinding noise from the hub and I can feel vibration through the belt, there's a similar feel in third but it's not quite as bad. I get drive ok in those gears but tend to stick to fifth and above as it feels so much smoother.

John

JohnMcL7- I know what you mean, I had some of the same problem with a weird noise and not riding as smooth. I didn't check what gear I was in. I like the bike overall, but only rode it for 30 or 40 miles. I think I need to ride it more to make a better judgement. Is your 2011 Deluxe in light blue? I saw a beautiful black one at a LBS, but I ended up buying my bike used.

Megalowmatt- I hope the people I bought it from on Amazon ships it soon, so I can use it.

Mine is exactly the same as yours I think:

http://johnmcl7.smugmug.com/Other/My-New-Bike/i-68VH5vC/0/L/P1030935-L.jpg

I ordered mine brand new but it was only available in that blue colour, there were any colour options here.

John

JohnMcL7- That must be a picture of your bike when you first got it, it looks so new and clean. Oh I have a question for you. Are your black plastic pieces that says Soho coming off? The guy that sold me the bike told me that it was coming off and he had to glue it back on. And they are coming off again, so it's kind of annoying me. I am almost tempted to ripe them off and put a top bar wrap instead.

Yes, unsurprisingly that picture was taken just when I had the bike home for the first time. Here's a more recent one:

http://johnmcl7.smugmug.com/Other/My-New-Bike/i-KXJ6vdc/0/X3/20120416134752-X3.jpg (http://johnmcl7.smugmug.com/Other/My-New-Bike/i-KXJ6vdc/0/L/20120416134752-L.jpg)

I think one of the black Soho bars is coming off slightly as I catch it occasionally when I'm going onto the bike, I can't check right now as the bike is back with the bike shop to have the hub looked at it although I'm getting the impression that this particular hub just isn't smooth in some gears. I'm kicking myself as someone local was selling a Nexus-8 hub and wheel from a Trek Soho 2010 which I didn't buy in the end and wish I had now as it seems next to impossible to find the hubs here in the UK.

John

JohnMcL7- I don't understand, our bikes has a Nexus-8. Why are you looking for another one, just to see if yours has a problem?

Yes, that was one reason and the other was to have a backup which would mean I could be using my bike at the moment.

John

Hi canyon eagle,

Can you please elaborate on the hub stripping issue? My 2011 DLX has been really noisy as of late and I'm having a heck of a time pinpointing the culprit. First I thought it was the bottom bracket, so I had my LBS take take it out, re-lube and reinstall it. Then I thought it might be the belt, but I got the tension perfect with the iPhone tension gauge and the belt has been dead quiet since. I'm now wondering if it's coming from the hub/cog problem that you mentioned. Is there a way to figure out if I have one of these problematic cogs? Would there be visual signs of wear near the hub/cog interface? Thanks!


Looks like those are good options for grips and bar ends. The current handlebar, being one with some "sweep", may warrant replacement with a more typical mountain bike "flat" bar, cut to your preferred width. You'll need to ensure the clamp diameter (where the bars mount to the stem) is correct for the stem.

I think doc's comment comes from the first generation belt system, where snow could pack up in the rear cog. I rode mine year round and never had this happen, as have many others with no issues. A few folks encountered the issue, but it is not as bad as doc implies. It is similar to someone saying "don't buy a carbon fiber frame because it will break". Just because some people had an issue does not mean you will.
In fact, I found the belt system to be BETTER in snowy conditions than a chain for numerous reasons.

Regardless, this has been rectified with a new rear cog design, and the snow thing is not an issue with centertrac. You can tell if you have centertrac by looking at the belt itself. If the teeth are solid all the way across, you do not have centertrac. If the teeth have a groove running down the center, then you have centertrac. Here's a pic of a centertrac belt:
262003

The final thing I'd mention is that if you have the original drive system (1st generation), the original rear cog was made of aluminum, and can (will) strip at the interface with the hub. Gates will send you a new steel cog free of charge. Simply send Gates an e-mail and request a replacement free of charge. You or your LBS can swap the cogs in less than 30 minutes, and you are set to go, with two issues solved (snow packing and the weak cog).

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I don't know if it looks right being that it's a bad drawing, but I want the bullhorn like that. I want the horns at a 45 degree angle that way I can have the shifter and brake pedal flat or -15 degrees so it doesn't hit the horns. Does that make sense?

It's a brake lever not a brake pedal....

The possibility of doing that will probably depend on the precise profile of the bullhorn, and I ran a flat bar with barends on it like that for a while. The barends (basically bolt-on versions of the forward extensions of bullhorn bars) got in the way of applying the brakes - I couldn't pull on the ends of the levers.

Where do you intend to put the shifters? With a few exceptions, bullhorn handlebars are 15/16" in diameter, not 7/8" like a flat bar. You can get brake levers to fit in the position you seem to be demonstrating on a road bar, but not shifters. You'll have to use the aftermarket jTek bar-end shifter for the hub, which puts paid to your idea of lights in the ends of the bar.