Professional Cycling For the Fans - stage 16 spoilers, discussion of quality of tour

Mod edit: original title was "Sad when T Voekler is winning the "toughest" mountain stage in the TDF..... (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/833197?p=14496422#post14496422)"

Wow how the tour has fallen.......

Voekler while a great rider is not even considered a dominant mountain climber......

Oh boy.

Winning by such a large margin is a bit suprising, but TV is a stage hunter.

Winning by such a large margin is a bit suprising, but TV is a stage hunter.

Yep. No big surprise.

Wow how the tour has fallen.......

Voekler while a great rider is not even considered a dominant mountain climber......

Oh boy.

Don't be silly. Voeckler is irrelevant to the GC competition, so there is absolutely no reason to chase him down. "How the tour has fallen"? Ridiculous.

Wow how the tour has fallen.......

Voekler while a great rider is not even considered a dominant mountain climber......

Oh boy.

Perhaps you missed last years TdF. Voekler is a hardman on a bike.

Wow how the tour has fallen.......

Voekler while a great rider is not even considered a dominant mountain climber......

Oh boy.

He's good for a stage or two but he loses lots of time on other stages. That's how the tour works noob.

Hes doing a Virenque. Minus the drugs.

Vive la France!

Not taking anything away from tom V, but this is the tour de France not some local bike tour. These are the premier riders in the world. No need to surgar coat it

Five baby!!

He's been consistently strong in the mountains this tour, the man is beast, he never gives up

Wow how the tour has fallen.......

Voekler while a great rider is not even considered a dominant mountain climber......

Oh boy.

:roflmao2:

Congrats and a great big thanks to Voekler for bringing a little interest to another boring group ride through the mountains. No race radio...very cool.

Not taking anything away from tom V, but this is the tour de France not some local bike tour. These are the premier riders in the world. No need to surgar coat it

So, is this the first bike race you've watched or the second?

So, is this the first bike race you've watched or the second?


DaveF,

Arent you smug. Why dont you stick your nose in the air a little higher.

Do you have anything to add to the discussion of Voekler's pedigree or are you going to continue to sling insults hiding behind your keyboard like a coward?

Hmmmm, let's stop and think for a minute ... oh yes, I recall now (others here more knowledgeable might correct the details) ...

10 days (?) in yellow 2004
10 days in yellow again 2011; a slip away from a podium finish
Consistent winner or podium over his career in shorter, tough races
French r/r champion
Love him or not, he's pretty widely acknowledged to be tough as nails, aggressive ... an 'old style' cyclist

Given the conditions today, his knowledge of the area, the state of play for GC, hardly surprising that TV won the stage, and most certainly no indication of a 'decline' in the Tour; quite the contrary, it's great for the sport/Tour to see someone take on a stage this difficult and 'go for it'.

Edit: Note to self -- don't feed trolls.

Arent you smug. Why dont you stick your nose in the air a little higher.

------------------------------------------


Sad when T Voeckler is winning the "toughest" mountain stage in the TDF


Not taking anything away from tom V, but this is the tour de France not some local bike tour. These are the premier riders in the world. No need to surgar coat it

pot, meet kettle.

Perhaps you missed last years TdF. Voekler is a hardman on a bike.

^^^THIS^^^

Voeckler is a fighter. It is always fun to watch the expression on his face when he is climbing hard. It is also always fun to watch him push spectators, who get too close for comfort, out of the way.

Plus he rides a C59. :thumb:

TV did great today, he did just what was needed to get rid off the other guys. Vino was not in great shape or this could have been his stage.

... but this is the tour de France not some local bike tour...

You try winning the mountain top stages that TV has consistently won over the years. Then come back and tell us about a "local bike tour." :notamused:

Like every one else has mentioned here, TV is one tough, old school homme. I am glad he won today and I hope he keeps the Polka Dot jersey.

Allez Voeckler, allez!

maybe what the OP was getting at is that the 'queen stage' was a bit of a bore, as has been this entire tour IMHO. without a pure attacking climber to challenge froome and wiggins, this queen stage lacked any kind of real excitement. sure nibali attacked a couple of times but who was he kidding. great and tough as he is, he doesn't have enough firepower to make any accelerations stick. same goes with the rest of the contenders. so a tough and cagey TV was able to take advantage and solo in for a good win. the tour is definitely missing guys like AS and AC that can make attacks stick and threaten sky's control of the race in the high mountains. i think this will be the last tour of this type of par course that we see in a long time. didn't make for much good racing between the top ten guys.

DaveF,

Arent you smug. Why dont you stick your nose in the air a little higher.

Do you have anything to add to the discussion of Voekler's pedigree or are you going to continue to sling insults hiding behind your keyboard like a coward?

Says the guy with 6 posts (can only assume you have multiple handles and/or have been banned in the past), speaking of how the greatest bike race in the world has "fallen".

Anyone who watched last year's TDF wouldn't doubt for a second that Voeckler is capable of winning ANY mountain stage as long as he's out of contention for GC.

Please do yourself and the world a favor by joining LemondFanForeve in psychiatric treatment for clinical narcissism.

Voeckler is awesome.

Just the expressions on his face show just how much he is suffering.


I don't mind Wiggins, but the way he's cycling, expressionless, makes it look like he's simply not putting as much effort into it as he could. Granted he doesn't have to because nobody else is attacking either, but jesus. The Yellow Jersey competition is boring as balls this year. Stage Victories have been far more entertaining.


No race radio, no heart rate monitor. This man is a god. It's a shame he isn't on a bigger team that could really support him. I'm sure he could have won the tour given a strong team.

I enjoy watching Voeckler win these stages, he works for every inch and it shows on his face and in his legs. He doesn't have the prettiest style maybe, but, as was said above, he has a solid history and is fun to watch when he takes a stage like today. Bravo Thomas Voeckler!!!

DaveF,

Arent you smug. Why dont you stick your nose in the air a little higher.

Do you have anything to add to the discussion of Voekler's pedigree or are you going to continue to sling insults hiding behind your keyboard like a coward?

Not smug, but more literate in cycling than you as are most of the people on this forum whom aren't surprised when a great rider like Voeckler wins. Here is part of his pedigree:


2008 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Circuit de la Sarthe (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Circuit_de_la_Sarthe_(cycling)) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Grand Prix de Plumelec-Morbihan (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Grand_Prix_de_Plumelec-Morbihan) Held http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Jersey_polkadot.svg/20px-Jersey_polkadot.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_polkadot.svg) Mountains classification from Stages 1–5 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2008_Tour_de_France) 2009 1st Stage 5 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2009_Tour_de_France) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall, Étoile de Bessèges (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/%C3%89toile_de_Bess%C3%A8ges) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Tour du Haut Var (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_du_Haut_Var) 1st Stage 2 1st Trophée des Grimpeurs (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Troph%C3%A9e_des_Grimpeurs) 2010 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/MaillotFra.PNG/20px-MaillotFra.PNG (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:MaillotFra.PNG) National Road Race Champion (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/French_National_Road_Race_Championships) 1st Stage 15 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2010_Tour_de_France) 1st Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2010_Grand_Prix_Cycliste_de_Qu%C3%A9bec) 3rd Overall Giro di Sardegna (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Giro_di_Sardegna) 2011 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Tour du Haut Var (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_du_Haut_Var) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Jersey_pink.svg/20px-Jersey_pink.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_pink.svg) Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 1st Stage 4 Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 1st Stage 1 Tour Méditerranéen (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_M%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9en) 1st Stages 4 & 8 Paris-Nice (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2011_Paris%E2%80%93Nice) 1st Cholet-Pays de Loire (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Cholet-Pays_de_Loire) 1st Stage 2 Giro del Trentino (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Giro_del_Trentino) 4th Overall Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2011_Tour_de_France) Held Maillot jaune (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Maillot_jaune) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) from Stage 10–19 2012 1st Brabantse Pijl (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Brabantse_Pijl) 1st Stage 3 La Tropicale Amissa Bongo (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/La_Tropicale_Amissa_Bongo) 1st Stage 10 (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France,_Prologue_to_Stage_10#Stage_10) Tour de France 1st Stage 16 (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France,_Stage_11_to_Stage_20#Stage_16) Tour de France Held http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Jersey_polkadot.svg/20px-Jersey_polkadot.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_polkadot.svg) Mountains classification for Stages 11 & 17 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France) 4th Liège–Bastogne–Liège (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Li%C3%A8ge%E2%80%93Bastogne%E2%80%93Li%C3%A8ge) 5th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 5th Amstel Gold Race (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Amstel_Gold_Race) 8th Tour of Flanders (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_of_Flanders)

When was the last time the best climber actually won the polka dot Jersey?

I really enjoyed watching him in last year's tour, enjoying watching him this year too. As people have been saying, he really pushes himself and is good to watch.

Not taking anything away from tom V, but this is the tour de France not some local bike tour. These are the premier riders in the world. No need to surgar coat it

I am officially redacting my Noob comment and replacing it with this :troll:.

Don't be fooled. Voekler knows how to read a race very well (heck of a race tactician), and he has guts, lot of it.

And I read where he said he knows those mountains like the back of his hand, as he's been riding them since he was 19years old.

Not smug, but more literate in cycling than you as are most of the people on this forum whom aren't surprised when a great rider like Voeckler wins. Here is part of his pedigree:


2008 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Circuit de la Sarthe (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Circuit_de_la_Sarthe_(cycling)) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Grand Prix de Plumelec-Morbihan (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Grand_Prix_de_Plumelec-Morbihan) Held http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Jersey_polkadot.svg/20px-Jersey_polkadot.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_polkadot.svg) Mountains classification from Stages 1–5 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2008_Tour_de_France) 2009 1st Stage 5 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2009_Tour_de_France) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall, Étoile de Bessèges (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/%C3%89toile_de_Bess%C3%A8ges) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Tour du Haut Var (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_du_Haut_Var) 1st Stage 2 1st Trophée des Grimpeurs (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Troph%C3%A9e_des_Grimpeurs) 2010 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/MaillotFra.PNG/20px-MaillotFra.PNG (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:MaillotFra.PNG) National Road Race Champion (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/French_National_Road_Race_Championships) 1st Stage 15 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2010_Tour_de_France) 1st Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2010_Grand_Prix_Cycliste_de_Qu%C3%A9bec) 3rd Overall Giro di Sardegna (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Giro_di_Sardegna) 2011 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) Overall Tour du Haut Var (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_du_Haut_Var) 1st http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Jersey_pink.svg/20px-Jersey_pink.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_pink.svg) Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 1st Stage 4 Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 1st Stage 1 Tour Méditerranéen (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Tour_M%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9en) 1st Stages 4 & 8 Paris-Nice (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2011_Paris%E2%80%93Nice) 1st Cholet-Pays de Loire (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Cholet-Pays_de_Loire) 1st Stage 2 Giro del Trentino (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Giro_del_Trentino) 4th Overall Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2011_Tour_de_France) Held Maillot jaune (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Maillot_jaune) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Jersey_yellow.svg/20px-Jersey_yellow.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_yellow.svg) from Stage 10–19 2012 1st Brabantse Pijl (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Brabantse_Pijl) 1st Stage 3 La Tropicale Amissa Bongo (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/La_Tropicale_Amissa_Bongo) 1st Stage 10 (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France,_Prologue_to_Stage_10#Stage_10) Tour de France 1st Stage 16 (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France,_Stage_11_to_Stage_20#Stage_16) Tour de France Held http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Jersey_polkadot.svg/20px-Jersey_polkadot.svg.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/File:Jersey_polkadot.svg) Mountains classification for Stages 11 & 17 Tour de France (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France) 4th Liège–Bastogne–Liège (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Li%C3%A8ge%E2%80%93Bastogne%E2%80%93Li%C3%A8ge) 5th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/Four_Days_of_Dunkirk) 5th Amstel Gold Race (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Amstel_Gold_Race) 8th Tour of Flanders (http://www.bikeforums.net/wiki/2012_Tour_of_Flanders)

This is pedigree starting at 7:00:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7rvKOBd_p0&feature=related

Dont feed me a bunch of BS about TV pedigree. Great rider = yes Exciting = yea.

Dominant mountain climber NO.

You expect us to watch a 45 minute video to make your point?

okay, lets take the rhetoric down a notch or two.
heated discussions? fine.
combative arguing? fine.
resorting to name calling? not so fine.

There's something about TV that just rubs me the wrong way, I don't know
what it is. That said you can't take away the fact he animates any break
he's in, climbs well and is exciting to watch.
chapeau Thomas, Chapeau

When was the last time the best climber actually won the polka dot Jersey?

According to this:

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/races/results/results_tour_de_france.txt

Eddy Mercx was the last to win yellow and polka-dots together.

You expect us to watch a 45 minute video to make your point?

Fast forward to 7:00 to witness the destruction. True TDF legends.

This is pedigree:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7rvKOBd_p0&feature=related

Dont feed me a bunch of BS about TV pedigree. Great rider = yes Exciting = yea.

Dominant mountain climber NO.

watch the day before, stage 18 summitting on the col du galibier.

voeckler finished 5th, after riding up with schleck the elder, cadel, basso, roland, and cunego. that day, he beat, ryder hesjedal and alberto contador by over a minute. he beat samuel sanchez and nicholas roche by over two minutes, and robert gessink by over 3 minutes.

voeckler can climb very well when he needs to, and he came up just short on the final mountain day last year.

now as to why he won today - it is because breakaways often win mountain stages later in the tour. he doesn't have to be the best climber in the world to win a stage, he just has to be the best climber in the group.

was july 17, 2005 also sad?:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tour0515/cycling-tdf2005-hincapie-46.jpg

When was the last time the best climber actually won the polka dot Jersey?

arguably, one of the years virenque won it. there are a few years to choose from. when the man was on, he was gone.

watch the day before, stage 18 summitting on the col du galibier.

voeckler finished 5th, after riding up with schleck the elder, cadel, basso, roland, and cunego. that day, he beat, ryder hesjedal and alberto contador by over a minute. he beat samuel sanchez and nicholas roche by over two minutes, and robert gessink by over 3 minutes.

voeckler can climb very well when he needs to, and he came up just short on the final mountain day last year.

now as to why he won today - it is because breakaways often win mountain stages later in the tour. he doesn't have to be the best climber in the world to win a stage, he just has to be the best climber in the group.

was july 17, 2005 also sad?:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tour0515/cycling-tdf2005-hincapie-46.jpg

Only for Oscar Pereiro:p

Floyd Landis made it up to him!


Only for Oscar Pereiro:p

arguably, one of the years virenque won it. there are a few years to choose from. when the man was on, he was gone.

Actually, the last time the best climber won it was when Rasmussen did. But of course those achievements are tainted, now. Virenque was a fine climber, no doubt about it.

More pedigree:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kzm-Y4XaIc&feature=related

Actually, the last time the best climber won it was when Rasmussen did. But of course those achievements are tainted, now. Virenque was a fine climber, no doubt about it.

ah yes...the chicken...hell of a climber too but every time i think of him, that darn disaster of a tt comes to mind first...

Please do yourself and the world a favor by joining LemondFanForeve in psychiatric treatment for clinical narcissism.

Hilarious!

TV is about the only reason I watched today!

This is pedigree starting at 7:00:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7rvKOBd_p0&feature=related

Dont feed me a bunch of BS about TV pedigree. Great rider = yes Exciting = yea.

Dominant mountain climber NO.

We're being trolled, aren't we...

Plus he rides a C59. :thumb:

Did his bike actually have old-school gumwall tires on it?:eek:

Likely impossible I know, but he is old school and it sure looked like it...

Great win for TV, proud to see him do it. He'll lose the polka dot tomorrow as Kessiakoff Fredrik will press in stage 17 while Voeckler rides in the back with the peloton and sprinters.

Did his bike actually have old-school gumwall tires on it?:eek:

Likely impossible I know, but he is old school and it sure looked like it...

I am looking at the photo of TV in the Colnago.com website.

They sure look like gumwall tires.

Probably colored Hutchisons tires (they are one of the team sponsors).

He is fun to watch, especially when he is pushing spectators out of his way.

My friend lives in FRance ( well he is French) and he told me that TV is well liked in the French cycling community. TV has a reputation for being a loner and doing things his own way (like tossing the team radio away, or getting rid of his sunglasses on the way up). In a way he is like Fignon, an iconoclast.

Allez TV....

Did his bike actually have old-school gumwall tires on it?:eek:

Likely impossible I know, but he is old school and it sure looked like it...

I noticed that as well. I'm currently riding a set 320TPI gumwalls, very very nice ride quality.

You expect us to watch a 45 minute video to make your point?

You win the thread! This is the only comment worth reading in this whole discussion.

When was the last time the best climber actually won the polka dot Jersey?

One could sure make an argument for Rasmussen in 2005 and 2006. In 1993 Rominger sure did not pick it up by being in beraks that the GC guys didn't care about. While not thought of as a climber I 'd also have ot say that in 1986 Hinault was the best climber. I'd also argue for Merckx in 1969 and 1970.

But for a pure climber winning as polka dot as a pure climber that none disputte I'd say yuo have ot go back to 1962-1964 and Bahamontes. That and hsi 3 earlier KOM wins.