Commuting - I accidently forced a salmon into a row of parked cars last night...

I feel a little sense of remorse.

I was JUST on the verge of leaving the "hood" on my commute home last night, the last stretch through the hood is a four lane rural route (East Coast 1). The road bottle necks as you cross the Massachusetts/Rhode Island state line and all four lanes become a couple feet narrower. At one point in the bottle neck, I was passing a stretch of parked cars about two blocks long, riding right in the door zone - it's there or the sidewalk. There were cars passing me on the left, probably a foot away, cruising along at 25-35 MPH. I'm biking 10-15 MPH trying to maintain a safe speed for the minimal space, but also trying to at least maintain some type of pace with the traffic.

Up ahead of the line of parked cars, I spot a hood rat riding salmon on what looks like a modified Schwinn Stingray, with highrise handlebars. Picture pre-fame 50Cent riding a bike and you'd be close. He's all kicked back, doing a slow gangsta roll along the curb. I see him, he see's me in this narrow lane of travel that I have, and instead of yielding or stopping, he proceeds to pull into the same lane of travel. And, he starts rolling right down the center of this 12-18" of space towards me. I didn't even flinch. I didn't have anyplace to go, I couldn't go left, there was a ton of passing traffic, and he was too close to the cars for me to pass on the right.

So I held my line, he eventually moves to pass me on the right, between myself and the parked cars, and we pass, with me giving him probably an inch to spare. About 2 seconds after he passes me, I heard the distinctive thud-thud of a bicyclist bumping a parked car. I don't know if he was alright or if he fell. If it was a better area of town, I would have gone back. Given the appearance of the rider and the area I was in, I got the hell out of there. Not that I don't care for my follow man or rider, but I don't really need to be shot on my commute.

I feel a little sense of remorse.

I was JUST on the verge of leaving the "hood" on my commute home last night, the last stretch through the hood is a four lane rural route (East Coast 1). The road bottle necks as you cross the Massachusetts/Rhode Island state line and all four lanes become a couple feet narrower. At one point in the bottle neck, I was passing a stretch of parked cars about two blocks long, riding right in the door zone - it's there or the sidewalk. There were cars passing me on the left, probably a foot away, cruising along at 25-35 MPH. I'm biking 10-15 MPH trying to maintain a safe speed for the minimal space, but also trying to at least maintain some type of pace with the traffic.

Up ahead of the line of parked cars, I spot a hood rat riding salmon on what looks like a modified Schwinn Stingray, with highrise handlebars. Picture pre-fame 50Cent riding a bike and you'd be close. He's all kicked back, doing a slow gangsta roll along the curb. I see him, he see's me in this narrow lane of travel that I have, and instead of yielding or stopping, he proceeds to pull into the same lane of travel. And, he starts rolling right down the center of this 12-18" of space towards me. I didn't even flinch. I didn't have anyplace to go, I couldn't go left, there was a ton of passing traffic, and he was too close to the cars for me to pass on the right.

So I held my line, he eventually moves to pass me on the right, between myself and the parked cars, and we pass, with me giving him probably an inch to spare. About 2 seconds after he passes me, I heard the distinctive thud-thud of a bicyclist bumping a parked car. I don't know if he was alright or if he fell. If it was a better area of town, I would have gone back. Given the appearance of the rider and the area I was in, I got the hell out of there. Not that I don't care for my follow man or rider, but I don't really need to be shot on my commute.


Not sure how much remorse I'd feel. I rode in today through a pretty nasty area (E.Hartford, CT) and had to make the conscious choice to look down and keep pedaling, giving salmon as wide a berth as possible without putting myself in line with the traffic blowing by me at 40-50mph with not a foot to spare.

I am never sure how to pass salmon. There was one on my ride home last night, riding about 6' from the curb. I passed him to my left (moving over to the far left side of the travel lane), and as I passed, he motioned that he had expected me to pass him on the other side. I didn't lose any sleep over it, and would do the same again tomorrow if he were in the same place.

Admittedly I will receive bad karma for this, but I hope it hurt like hell and I hope his "bike" is damaged beyond repair. I wouldn't feel the slightest bit of remorse and personally think forcing him into traffic would have been justified. He's the one causing a problem, he suffers the consequences. Perhaps if the consequences are severe he will chose not to do it again, or end up not able to do it again. Either way, anything to get an a-hole, dangerous rider off the road is good by me. Personally I think the answer to salmon is a lance.

The only parties I feel sympathy for are you for having to deal with it and the car owner for whatever damage he did crashing into it. I don't have even the smallest piece of sympathy for the salmon. He chose to ride like a schmuck. He chose to behave in a way dangerous to you and to him. You did nothing other than legally ride your bike in a manner safe for you. You owed him nothing...whatever resulted is a consequence of his chosen behavior.

Yeah, no one's in control of the situation, which is the big problem. I've had some success pointing at them and then to my left and they steer out into traffic. Over the weekend while out on the tandem, traffic coming up beside me didn't allow either of us to move much. She yelled "Sorry!!" as her wheels scraped the curb and we barely passed safely. I just hollered back, "I bet!!!!"

Failure to yield, just to "teach someone a lesson" is ridiculous. The scenario you describe is not a good one. Sure, you're in the right. But if you can act reasonably, then do it.
Is the OP thinking that if he acts extra tough, he'll convince his "hood rat" to act less tough?

"Given the appearance of the rider and the area I was in, I got the hell out of there. Not that I don't care for my follow man or rider, but I don't really need to be shot on my commute."
This is idiotic. Unless you can act respectfully while you're riding through someone else's neighborhood, don't ride through it. Next time your down there, compliment the guy on his cruiser or try a friendly wheelie competition. Play nice or leave.

Not as ridiculous as riding in a manner dangerous to others. If the result is an accident, it's on him.

Two wrongs make a right?

Failure to yield, just to "teach someone a lesson" is ridiculous. The scenario you describe is not a good one. Sure, you're in the right. But if you can act reasonably, then do it.
Is the OP thinking that if he acts extra tough, he'll convince his "hood rat" to act less tough?

"Given the appearance of the rider and the area I was in, I got the hell out of there. Not that I don't care for my follow man or rider, but I don't really need to be shot on my commute."
This is idiotic. Unless you can act respectfully while you're riding through someone else's neighborhood, don't ride through it. Next time your down there, compliment the guy on his cruiser or try a friendly wheelie competition. Play nice or leave.

WOW...just wow. Really? Some junior thug rides like an ass, and because it MIGHT be in "his 'hood", it's OK to endanger other people? I think NOT.

Riding in an already hazardous area, squeezed between traffic and parked cars -- WHERE'S THE OP SUPPOSED TO YIELD?!?

Tool....

Why is the OP riding in the door zone? Why is the OP trashing an area that he's only trying to pass through? Why is the OP using so many offensive descriptors for a salmon he's never even exchanged a word with? Why is the OP even there?

Tool....

Are we still talking about riding our bicycles?

Two wrongs make a right?

Define how riding legally is a wrong.

Since we're all dancing around it, I'll say it. There is a definite greeater tendency towards riding like an arse in lower income areas. I suspect it's because a lot of those folks are riding bikes because they have to, not because they want to. Regardless of the reason, yes - I see more salmons and more jerkwad riders amongst lower income communities.

I'd like to see a new program instituted where salmon and sidewalk riders are ticketed. If they can't pay the ticket, the bike is confiscated then and there. It is then run against a database of stolen bikes (which we don't have, but I can dream). If the bike isn't stolen, and the ticket is paid, the bike gets returned. If not, it gets auctioned off to raise money. It might even have the added benefit of catching fugitives and criminals.

If you didn't cause or contribute to the accident, you are not responsible for it and have no obligation to stop. From your description, sounds like the other rider was 100% at fault for riding recklessly, and suffered the consequences. All this talk about the place you were riding and a description of the other rider is irrelevant. Not sure why you brought it up, other than to inflame.

OP, please edit out the unnecessary offensiveness about the appearance of the rider, the nature of the neighborhood, or your totally irrelevant fear of gun violence.
Understand that many riders were taught, with good intentions, to ride opposite of traffic. They don't do it to offend you or fly some sort of countercultural flag.

He does have an argument legally since most traffic codes contain something like there is an obligation to avoid an accident, however there is no moral argument in my mind. Legally I suspect most third parties would put the blame squarely on the salmon with little contributory negligence apportioned.

I'm not sure where the poster above lives, but gun fears are quite legitimate in our inner city. If the ass was dumb enough to ride in that manner, I'd be wary of his judgement across the board. As for offensive terms, agree. Not needed.

I accidently forced a salmon into a row of parked cars last night...

No, the salmon forced himself into a row of parked cars last night. This is not on you at all. This reminds of a conversation my wife regularly has with her students:

"Ma'am, you failed me!"
"Who failed you?"
"You failed me!"
"Who failed you?"
"*sigh* I failed me...."

There is a definite greeater tendency towards riding like an arse in lower income areas. I suspect it's because a lot of those folks are riding bikes because they have to, not because they want to. Regardless of the reason, yes - I see more salmons and more jerkwad riders amongst lower income communities.

I'd like to see a new program instituted where salmon and sidewalk riders are ticketed. If they can't pay the ticket, the bike is confiscated then and there.

Given that citizens in poor communities are already the subject of vastly greater police scrutiny than the rest of us enjoy, and given that the bicycle is likely their only transportation, and given the fact that a lot of these people don't have two nickels to rub together, let along have money to pay a fine, do you really think that an increased level of harassment in the manner described will really have a long term societal benefit?

I'm all in favor of educating everyone to ride more safely, but creating an us against them mentality and taking actions that will have a very negative impact on the lives of people whose position in society is already pretty tenuous, strikes me as the wrong way to go about it.

Why is the OP riding in the door zone? Why is the OP trashing an area that he's only trying to pass through? Why is the OP using so many offensive descriptors for a salmon he's never even exchanged a word with? Why is the OP even there?

Because he wants to blow off steam after another rider rode like an ass and endangered him.

I'd rather force them to take the traffic side than the parked car side, but when there's no room, there's no room. Just hold your line or come to a complete stop and make them go around you if there's no other choice. Playing chicken with speeding traffic beside you sucks.

There is a definite greeater tendency towards riding like an arse in lower income areas. I suspect it's because a lot of those folks are riding bikes because they have to, not because they want to. Regardless of the reason, yes - I see more salmons and more jerkwad riders amongst lower income communities.

I'd like to see a new program instituted where salmon and sidewalk riders are ticketed. If they can't pay the ticket, the bike is confiscated then and there.

Given that citizens in poor communities are already the subject of vastly greater police scrutiny than the rest of us enjoy, and given that the bicycle is likely their only transportation, and given the fact that a lot of these people don't have two nickels to rub together, let along have money to pay a fine, do you really think that an increased level of harassment in the manner described will really have a long term societal benefit?

I'm all in favor of educating everyone to ride more safely, but creating an us against them mentality and taking actions that will have a very negative impact on the lives of people whose position in society is already pretty tenuous, strikes me as the wrong way to go about it.


I respect where you are coming from, but as a manner of practical use of authority...I disagree. I'll start by saying that I support programs that will directly address poverty. I am not a "it's all your fault" guy and I think the cuts to social programs are outrageous. HOWEVER, as a practical manner...all rights are a balancing act. You have to balance things like freedom and saftety. In dangerous areas of high crime, of course that balance is different.

There are a LOT of working poor in these neighborhoods and families just trying to get by. They are plagued by rule breaking thugs and, to me, increased police presence, including harassmant, is a neccassary evil to protect society. The balance between rights and safety shifts when safety issues are more pronounced. Is this going to result in unequal treatment? Yes - let's not pretend this country provides equal rights and opportunity to all. It doesn't.

As a practical manner, salmon are endangering others. I have no problem harrassing them into behavior that doesn't impact the safety of others. If that means they lose transportation, so be it. When people drive dangerously, they lose their license. They have a choice - riding in a way that doesn't endanger others and I do not think that respecting poor choices is a viable option. I strongly disagree that it's education...they know. They've been yelled at. More to the point, it's their responsibility to know.

Perhaps a compromise position? My program combined with education initiaitves and an adjustment period. First offense...some form of bicycle training that eliminates the ticket. Second offense? Bye bye bike and/or fines.

to the OP:
Good luck with that whole riding in the door zone, playing chicken with salmons, and allowing cars to buzz due to your incorrect lane position. (one of those three will eventually get the better of you)

I hope we don't read about you in the obit's.

Because he wants to blow off steam after another rider rode like an ass and endangered him.

He could've told a good story. But it was so infused with hate on the people and place, that it just creeped me out.

He could've told a good story. But it was so infused with hate on the people and place, that it just creeped me out.

Sometimes it's hard to live in and around those areas without getting angry. I am not justifying some of the terms used, because I agree with your perspective, but being around some of the pond scum that plague these areas is trying. My real sympathy goes to the majority just trying to keep their heads down and get by.

If someone is approaching you head on and there is any doubt about passing safely, then why not just stop? At least then if he hits you, you'll suffer less damage, and by not moving, you won't be at any fault. It also wouldn't hurt to stop and ask if he's okay. You can't judge a book by it's cover and all that...

I strongly disagree that it's education...they know. They've been yelled at. More to the point, it's their responsibility to know.



I've been yelled at, too --by motorists who think I'm riding on the wrong side when I ride with traffic.
When I've informed salmon that they should be riding in the same direction as the motorists, they have told me they were taught the opposite and that their way is safer because they can see the cars coming.
I can sometimes tell that they are hearing another point of view for the first time.
They're not doing it just to be contrary. They're not doing it just to get under your skin. It's a cultural norm for many people.
Dangerous? Yes. Willful, defiant disobedience? Not usually.
And please refrain from identifying someone as a "thug" because of his personal style or his location. If he holds you up at gunpoint, he's a thug. If not, he's just another human being going about his day in his way.

With a little luck, everyone involved learned a lesson here.

The salmon got what he deserved. Glad you are ok, OP.

By some of these people's logic, if a foreigner comes in to US, gets international drivers license, start driving on left side of road... it's all right?
Hey, that's how they were taught to drive...

If the OP will allow me to make everyone feel a little better I amended his original story. My edits are in red.


I feel a little sense of remorse.

I was JUST on the verge of leaving the "rich part" on my commute home last night, the last stretch through the rich part is a four lane rural route (East Coast 1). The road bottle necks as you cross the Massachusetts/Rhode Island state line and all four lanes become a couple feet narrower. At one point in the bottle neck, I was passing a stretch of parked cars about two blocks long, riding right in the door zone - it's there or the sidewalk. There were cars passing me on the left, probably a foot away, cruising along at 25-35 MPH. I'm biking 10-15 MPH trying to maintain a safe speed for the minimal space, but also trying to at least maintain some type of pace with the traffic.

Up ahead of the line of parked cars, I spot some rich guy riding salmon on what looks like a tricked out Trek Madone, with aero bars. Picture post-IPO Mark Zuckerberg riding a bike and you'd be close. He's all leaned over, getting warmed up for a training ride or something along the curb. I see him, he see's me in this narrow lane of travel that I have, and instead of yielding or stopping, he proceeds to pull into the same lane of travel. And, he starts rolling right down the center of this 12-18" of space towards me. I didn't even flinch. I didn't have anyplace to go, I couldn't go left, there was a ton of passing traffic, and he was too close to the cars for me to pass on the right.

So I held my line, he eventually moves to pass me on the right, between myself and the parked cars, and we pass, with me giving him probably an inch to spare. About 2 seconds after he passes me, I heard the distinctive thud-thud of a bicyclist bumping a parked car. I don't know if he was alright or if he fell. If it was my part town, I would have gone back. Given the appearance of the rider and the area I was in, I got the hell out of there. Not that I don't care for my follow man or rider, but I don't really need to be sued on my commute.

Everyone feel better now? I think the real point behind the story is that someone saw him approaching yet felt the need to push the issue and potentially force the OP in to traffic that had a 10 mph advantage on him. The OP decided his safety was more important than anything else at that point and he decided to hold his line and see where the cards fell. The salmon and the owner of the car paid the real price for the incident and the OP got out of there lickety split for fear of his own well being.

I can't say I blame him. I live in the, as he put it and I agree, "hood". I see the attitudes SOME people have where I live and would not want to confront that if I were to run into one of them on a bad day. You run across the wrong person and you really could get shot. It is no joke.

Just sayin'

If the OP will allow me to make everyone feel a little better I amended his original story. My edits are in red.



Everyone feel better now? I think the real point behind the story is that someone saw him approaching yet felt the need to push the issue and potentially force the OP in to traffic that had a 10 mph advantage on him. The OP decided his safety was more important than anything else at that point and he decided to hold his line and see where the cards fell. The salmon and the owner of the car paid the real price for the incident and the OP got out of there lickety split for fear of his own well being.

I can't say I blame him. I live in the, as he put it and I agree, "hood". I see the attitudes SOME people have where I live and would not want to confront that if I were to run into one of them on a bad day. You run across the wrong person and you really could get shot. It is no joke.

Just sayin'


+100

ibtl

I love how a forum on bike commuting turns into a debate on class and race. Are we done now? I have a poor stretch on my ride too, and there are definitely some salmon that just scream bad attitude and are actually looking to play chicken. Was it this case with the OP? Who the heck knows, but no need to jump all over the guy and start complaining about profiling. If you are in a bad part of town you don't want to get into confrontations, period. Honestly, if I got into it with a salmon in a nicer part of town, I'd probably be more willing to give a solid piece of my mind.

You were foolish not to stop. If the salmon hadn't swerved left, the resultant accident could easily have forced one or both of you into traffic.

You need to work on your bunny hopping skills. If you can just jump the dude, he'd give you mad props and you'd be welcome in his hood for life.

Yes - we should definitely blame the guy riding legally, holding his line, for this incident. How dare the OP ride in his lane and expect people riding illegally to give him the right of way. The nerve.

Yes - we should definitely blame the guy riding legally, holding his line, for this incident. How dare the OP ride in his lane and expect people riding illegally to give him the right of way. The nerve.

Get ready for the snarky remark from someone saying, "Hard to be right when you are lying there dead." or something to that effect.

Some of us here stop at every stop sign, and some don't. Some take the lane, others ride on the far right. Some ride fast, others slow.
You may feel annoyed and actually endangered by the person who rides in another manner.
Does it also make that rider a "thug" with a "bad attitude" and likely to shoot you? Or does that depend on the person's color, income, and personal style?
What if it's a school girl in uniform with a backpack riding salmon toward you? Are you going to run her into the parked cars with "little remorse"?

By some of these people's logic, if a foreigner comes in to US, gets international drivers license, start driving on left side of road... it's all right?
Hey, that's how they were taught to drive...
It's not "all right", but if I were to play chicken with him/her and drive straight towards them without even making an attempt to stop, that wouldn't be "all right" either.

I generally do everything in my power (which often includes signalling left and taking the lane) to avoid salmon and pedestrians, even if they're there illegally.

Yes, something tells me this thread is about to get locked.

I wonder how many of you criticising the OP for being afraid of violence would ever drive through, let alone live in, areas like this? If you have lived there you learn real fast to keep your head down and that you never know who is a danger. I'm all for tolerance, I'm all for opportunity...but I wouldn't stop either. The very fact that he rode so agressively reflects poorly on his judgement. When you have desperate, hungry people in a dangerous environment, they are not going to balance life and risk the same way that the fat and content of us do. If you've lived in these areas, you know this. Tolerance is well and good, but this isn't a theoretical issue - these are real risks, and if you haven't lived in fear, don't judge.

As a side note - unless we as a society address our class and race imbalance, these issues are going to get worse. The situation now is unstable and scary for all of us. Sorry for the political/class comment, but it's an important issue.

He could've told a good story. But it was so infused with hate on the people and place, that it just creeped me out.

I totally agree. Apparently the OP thinks all the members of this forum look like him.

KonAaronSnake: If they are such pond scum why don't you move? And what does it say about you for living in the same neighborhood as pond scum?

On another thread Roody had the nerve to question why I don't frequent
certain stores like Wal-Mart: because these stereotypical generalizations about people based upon where they live, what type of bicycle they ride, and yeah I will say it their skin color--are really disgusting. And people like the OP have these really creepy rationalizations for their stereotypes and have a nasty little way of constantly with feined glee snickering about people they think are beneath them.

The story was asinine but the original poster feels great because the guy hit a parked car. Haha yeah funny.

Gangsta lean, getting shot riding in the hood---really? I keep asking this question--if you are so turned off by the people, the neighborhood, their idiosyncrasies which are sooo completely inopposite to your being--why in God's name do you insist on traveling in these neighborhoods? I think it really makes people with low self-esteem and prejudicial fears--it really makes you feel better about yourself.

What a jerk.

I totally agree. Apparently the OP thinks all the members of this forum look like him.

KonAaronSnake: If they are such pond scum why don't you move? And what does it say about you for living in the same neighborhood as pond scum?

On another thread Roody had the nerve to question why I don't frequent
certain stores like Wal-Mart: because these stereotypical generalizations about people based upon where they live, what type of bicycle they ride, and yeah I will say it their skin color--are really disgusting. And people like the OP have these really creepy rationalizations for their stereotypes and have a nasty little way of constantly with feined glee snickering about people they think are beneath them.

The story was asinine but the original poster feels great because the guy hit a parked car. Haha yeah funny.

Gangsta lean, getting shot riding in the hood---really? I keep asking this question--if you are so turned off by the people, the neighborhood, their idiosyncrasies which are sooo completely inopposite to your being--why in God's name do you insist on traveling in these neighborhoods? I think it really makes people with low self-esteem and prejudicial fears--it really makes you feel better about yourself.

What a jerk.

I did move...as soon as I was able to. Is that the answer, that people living in dangerous areas should move? What does it say about me? It says I made poor choices when I was younger that lead to some money/income issues. I was lucky - I was born with opportunity and the means to fix mistakes; a lot of these folks are not so lucky and they don't have that option. Not everyone in the area are pond scum, you read posts VERY selectively and are making incorrect assumptions about my views. These pond scum are largely the logical result of poverty. The real answer is to address class imbalance and generational classicsm...but that doesn't help people living there right now.

So quite obviously, we're supposed to associate ignorance and stupidity with a certain ethnic group and race.

Just what the **** is a "hood rat" anyway? And who are you to determine anyone as such? Do you have some kinda preformed image in your tiny little head as to what a "hood rat" should look like? So what group of people are described as such? Are they all some kinda vermin or something? Why should we have to picture 50 Cent or whomever? Is it because 50 Cent is black and that's the image you want us all to conjure?

Why not just say, "Here comes some random idiot salmon..."? Even if you had alluded to some resemblance to 50 Cent, that wouldn't have been so bad. However, the reference to "hood rat" was just a tad over the top IMO....

I'm sorry but your entire post seems to be spiked with racist overtones...


As much as I detest salmoning, I would never wish physical harm to another person just on that account.

However, I do wish he screwed his bike up for all eternity!

Yes, something tells me this thread is about to get locked.

Not sure why it would get locked. It is on topic and the discussion seems civil. What point is a forum if we all agree and see eye to eye? If it get locked then so be it but I see no reason for it.


I wonder how many of you criticising the OP for being afraid of violence would ever drive through, let alone live in, areas like this? If you have lived there you learn real fast to keep your head down and that you never know who is a danger. I'm all for tolerance, I'm all for opportunity...but I wouldn't stop either. The very fact that he rode so agressively reflects poorly on his judgement. When you have desperate, hungry people in a dangerous environment, they are not going to balance life and risk the same way that the fat and content of us do. If you've lived in these areas, you know this. Tolerance is well and good, but this isn't a theoretical issue - these are real risks, and if you haven't lived in fear, don't judge.

As a side note - unless we as a society address our class and race imbalance, these issues are going to get worse. The situation now is unstable and scary for all of us. Sorry for the political/class comment, but it's an important issue.

I agree fully. When you live or travel through a bad area you learn to mind your own business and keep your head down. Getting killed for some stupid reason is a real danger. All the neon green and blinky lights aren't going to stop a bullet.

Just to be clear, I'm not even talking about race here. I mean any area that is not safe. I have seen some scary white dudes I would not mess with either so we can take the race card out of the equation for me. Had the OP left out the comment about 50 cent then none of us would know the race of the salmon and we would all be using our own prejudices to determine the irrelevant race of the salmon. He used the comment simply to say the salmon was a scary looking dude.

And by the way...it wasn't too long ago that this new buzz word I guess BikeSnobNY coined---"salmoning" was actually accepted and expected. For years, bicyclists were taught to ride against traffic (they can see you and you can see them) as opposed to now the bicyclenazi's demand everyone ride with traffic.

I really like this forum but really some of you truly are ignorant and clearly your only exposure to different skin colors and cultures are through watching reruns of GoodTimes, Lil Wayne videos and whatever else Rush Limbaugh feeds you.

Not sure why it would get locked. It is on topic and the discussion seems civil. What point is a forum if we all agree and see eye to eye? If it get locked then so be it but I see no reason for it.



I agree fully. When you live or travel through a bad area you learn to mind your own business and keep your head down. Getting killed for some stupid reason is a real danger. All the neon green and blinky lights aren't going to stop a bullet.

Just to be clear, I'm not even talking about race here. I mean any area that is not safe. I have seen some scary white dudes I would not mess with either so we can take the race card out of the equation for me. Had the OP left out the comment about 50 cent then none of us would know the race of the salmon and we would all be using our own prejudices to determine the irrelevant race of the salmon. He used the comment simply to say the salmon was a scary looking dude.

Exactly - we confuse race and class isssues in this country. The issues are class based, not race based and as the class divide grows, things grow more dangerous and more unstable.

And by the way...it wasn't too long ago that this new buzz word I guess BikeSnobNY coined---"salmoning" was actually accepted and expected. For years, bicyclists were taught to ride against traffic (they can see you and you can see them) as opposed to now the bicyclenazi's demand everyone ride with traffic.

I really like this forum but really some of you truly are ignorant and clearly your only exposure to different skin colors and cultures are through watching reruns of GoodTimes, Lil Wayne videos and whatever else Rush Limbaugh feeds you.

Have you lived in a rough urban area? I think your comments, as well inteitoned as they may be, are ignorant and judgemental...and do not reflect the very real risks of poorer areas. I am 38 - as a child of age 7 I was taught to ride with traffic, as were my parents, as was everyone I know. I'm not sure where exactly people were taught to ride against traffic...Fantasia? It certainly wasn't the case when I grew up.

To me you're coming across like a self righteous, inexperienced child who is reacting to what he wants to read, not what was written by most here. That being said, I do think the OPs post was out of line in the buzz words.

PS - care to wager who has more experience with different cultures and classes?

Not sure why it would get locked. It is on topic and the discussion seems civil. What point is a forum if we all agree and see eye to eye? If it get locked then so be it but I see no reason for it.



I agree fully. When you live or travel through a bad area you learn to mind your own business and keep your head down. Getting killed for some stupid reason is a real danger. All the neon green and blinky lights aren't going to stop a bullet.

Just to be clear, I'm not even talking about race here. I mean any area that is not safe. I have seen some scary white dudes I would not mess with either so we can take the race card out of the equation for me. Had the OP left out the comment about 50 cent then none of us would know the race of the salmon and we would all be using our own prejudices to determine the irrelevant race of the salmon. He used the comment simply to say the salmon was a scary looking dude.


I think "hood rat" used in conjunction with the 50 Cent image pretty much seals the racist deal for me!

Have you lived in a rough urban area? I think your comments, as well inteitoned as they may be, are ignorant and judgemental...and do not reflect the very real risks of poorer areas. I am 38 - as a child of age 7 I was taught to ride with traffic, as were my parents, as was everyone I know. I'm not sure where exactly people were taught to ride against traffic...Fantasia? It certainly wasn't the case when I grew up.

To me you're coming across like a self righteous, inexperienced child who is reacting to what he wants to read, not what was written by most here. That being said, I do think the OPs post was out of line in the buzz words.

I'm quite a bit older than you are. There once was a time when people in this country were taught to ride against traffic, so that you could actually watch for impending traffic approaching. It never really made any sense to me. I'm glad it changed, because I never obeyed that rule anyway...

Exactly - we confuse race and class isssues in this country. The issues are class based, not race based and as the class divide grows, things grow more dangerous and more unstable.
Couldn't agree more.

I like ice cream.