Fifty Plus (50+) - Cycling shoes & insoles

I'm going to ask this here instead of the roadie forum because I want the perspective of 50+'ers vs that of 20 yr old racers, or racer wannabes.

I'm 50, and I want to ride a century. I've not been able to do it yet due to mostly my body's inability to stay on a bike for enough time. I have a bad back that protests when I'm in the saddle for too long. But recently, I had to replace my shoes, and my feet are now the 1st thing that starts hurting (at about the 1hr point). Well, actually, one hot spot on one foot, so my feet are apparently not symmetrical. I'm not a racer, but since I want to be able to ride a century, I AM interested in long term comfort and efficiency. My new shoes are Shimano R087's, which I think are about as good as I'm going to get in terms of fit, because of my wide feet. I bought them at a shop, and tried on several different brands, and these Shimano's were the widest and best fitting. So that likely means finding an insole that works. After a little research, I find that this could be a $200 proposition, if I have to try several different brands. As an alternative, I've considered just using platform pedals and sneakers, which I use with no problem on my commuter. So the questions become:

1) How much efficiency do you gain with stiff soled road shoes vs softer sneakers & platform pedals?

2) How much effort will it likely take to find a suitable solution to get my shoes comfortable enough? Keep in mind that I'll likely need something that I can custom form to my foot, or something adjustable.

Thanks.

Cycling shoes- just like other footwear- needs a bit of wearing in.

Recently bought the 077 shoes and fine for two hours so I only use them on rides that will not take longer than that. That is better than when I first got them as blisters came on the toes.

I've seen riders using sneakers and large platform shoes on century rides. It can be done.

However the advantages of a stiff road or mountain-bike shoe that fits are tremendous. Modern clip-less pedals and matching shoes distribute pressure across the sole. The modern pedals also allow faster cadence (speed that the crank is spinning), and power can be produced over a larger arc of the pedal stroke.

I had to overcome two issues before getting fully comfortable with cycling shoes. First, the shoe should not be super snug. Feet will swell and some available room in the shoe will be needed. Second, I replaced the worthless insole with something more supportive: http://www.aline.com/

All you need is shoes that fit.

I have pedaled 48,000 miles and many centuries in walking shoes.

http://www.shoebuy.com/rockport-prowalker-7100/42704/42706#

Pedals are your choice.

I go with these on 4 bikes.

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/ps-20055-1067-mks-sylvan-road-pedals.aspx
http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/ps-20992-1068-velo-orange-half-clips-toe-clips.aspx

262404


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/TDCIndy2012184.jpg

It has been said many, many times...and it will cost you a bit. Consider getting a pro fit done with your bike. They will not only adjust your cleats, but also other things that just might mitigate your back pain when you ride long distances.

Cycling shoes- just like other footwear- needs a bit of wearing in.
Given that the soles of road shoes are about as soft any pliable as bedrock, I suspect that the only "wearing in" occurring would be in my feet. I was looking for a slightly different solution.

It has been said many, many times...and it will cost you a bit. Consider getting a pro fit done with your bike. They will not only adjust your cleats, but also other things that just might mitigate your back pain when you ride long distances.
I've seriously considered that, too. But I have scoliosis, and have had multiple surgeries to correct, so my back doesn't always predictably respond to typical corrective measures. If I had confidence that my body & back would respond predictably, I wouldn't hesitate to spend the bucks on a fitting.

A good fitter will take your scoliosis into account. They're used to that sort of thing as few people are physically perfect.

Cycling shoes do break in but it's subtle. The upper will stretch some at the pressure points, and the insole will compact a little.

One thing to check is that your cleats are not too far forward. That can cause hot spots on the bottom of the foot. I don't understand why but I've had the experience of moving the cleats back a few mm and the hostspots being significantly reduced.

If you cinch your shoes too tight your feet will hurt. Feet swell, especially in the heat, so what starts out loose will be tight in an hour or two. I do them up loose at the start, and sometimes loosen them during the ride.

If you ride with your shoes too tight for too long you cause long term damage, and your feet will hurt more for years afterwards. I did that 10 years ago and my left foot hurts more ever since.

I've used insoles that compact and thus mold to the foot. My favorites are no longer made, but you can find similar ones now. They should be around $50.

The best solution is to get some younger feet.:) Our feet have a thicker fat pad when we are young that really helps prevent foot soreness from things like cycling for hours on end, even when using wood soles with cork insoles like we all used to do.

If you can't do that, then I guess you'll have to come up with some sort of plan B. In my case (size 15 with long, wide toes and non-existent heels), plan B consisted of using a Spenco insole with some additional foam underneath the balls of the feet. This added foam is placed under the insole and is fatter in the middle than on the outside edges. I think Specialized does a higher-tech version of this shape with their insoles. It seems to encourage cycles of flex/relax that keep the feet from swelling.

Also, check the camber of your cleats to make sure you aren't tipping out to the side and be sure to not over-tighten the front straps. Check the strap tension after you have warmed up. You may be surprised by how much your feet have swollen up.

A good fitter will take your scoliosis into account. They're used to that sort of thing as few people are physically perfect.

Cycling shoes do break in but it's subtle. The upper will stretch some at the pressure points, and the insole will compact a little.

One thing to check is that your cleats are not too far forward. That can cause hot spots on the bottom of the foot. I don't understand why but I've had the experience of moving the cleats back a few mm and the hostspots being significantly reduced.

If you cinch your shoes too tight your feet will hurt. Feet swell, especially in the heat, so what starts out loose will be tight in an hour or two. I do them up loose at the start, and sometimes loosen them during the ride.

If you ride with your shoes too tight for too long you cause long term damage, and your feet will hurt more for years afterwards. I did that 10 years ago and my left foot hurts more ever since.

.

+1 I have MO87s as well. It'll feel weird but the velcro straps don't need to be tight. I did replace the stock insoles with Dr Shools from Walley World but loosening the straps was the big deal.

The Superfeet yellow footbed is good.

You've already bought shoes but Sidi makes extra wide (they call it mega) as does Specialized. I have feet on the wider side of D but I still buy a D shoe. I'm now on Specialized Pro Road and Pro MTB. I love them. In answer to your shoe stiffness question--there is a huge performance difference between stiff cycling shoes and sneakers. I've even noticed more pedaling power moving from my Spec. Comps to the Pros. Something I'm very happy with are the Specialized footbeds I put in. They are $50 per pair and include thin wedges that help tip your knees in or out so you get a neutral pedaling style. And they come in 3 diff amounts of arch. I used them in my old Carnacs (road) and Spec Comps (mtb) before getting my new shoes. I had a bike fit done and pedaling style/knee position is something that was included. My feet don't get fatigued and my knees don't ache. Get a pro bike fitting done--that got rid of my back pain too.

One thing to check is that your cleats are not too far forward. That can cause hot spots on the bottom of the foot. I don't understand why but I've had the experience of moving the cleats back a few mm and the hostspots being significantly reduced.
If you cinch your shoes too tight your feet will hurt. Feet swell, especially in the heat, so what starts out loose will be tight in an hour or two. I do them up loose at the start, and sometimes loosen them during the ride.


+1

Is it a hot spot or numbness? Hot spots are caused by friction. So, I'd consider different socks as my first step toward a solution. If you have no success with that, try any inexpensive sports insole. Here' an article mostly about foot numbness, but it has some information related to hot spots that you might find useful.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Sole-Searching-Whats-Causing-Your-Foot-Numbness.htm

I'm going to ask this here instead of the roadie forum because I want the perspective of 50+'ers vs that of 20 yr old racers, or racer wannabes.

I'm 50, and I want to ride a century.

1) How much efficiency do you gain with stiff soled road shoes vs softer sneakers & platform pedals?

2) How much effort will it likely take to find a suitable solution to get my shoes comfortable enough? Keep in mind that I'll likely need something that I can custom form to my foot, or something adjustable.

Thanks.

The whole thing about road bike riding is efficiency and the stiffer the bike, the more energy goes into going forward. I think that the foot becomes an extension of the bike's mechanical works. When I do a hard acceleration, I don't want my foot to be flopping around. In fact, its super rigid. Therefore, anything that deters from this would not help but hinder. Even in a lower intensity portion of a ride, efficiency trumps everything else. Its like the pedal stroke, you develop good habits and it becomes your friend.

Socks that bunch up at the ball of my foot tend to make hot spots on my feet. I have to use good, well made socks, I like the Cannondale shorties I get from my LBS, that have good stretch in the ankle top. I also use the road Runner sports house brand crew socks when it is cooler out. The inner soles in my Adidas shoes are pretty comfortable so I haven't tried the Specialized or Dr. Schols inner soles. At least the shoes are wide enough, my running shoes are 4E width. Kind of hard to find shoes that fit. I'll be looking at the wifth sized Specialized shoes next time, I am sure.

Socks that bunch up would cause blisters pretty quick.

I like thin cycling socks made by DeFeet. They're tight so there's no friction. I use Dr Schols inserts in my motorcycle boots but they are too thick and wide for cycling shoes. Sports inner soles are better for cycling shoes.

I tried several different shoes. Found ones that fit me really well. Feet still hurt after a couple of hours. Asked about it and was told that my feet will hurt no matter what. I like the stiff sole better than not. Was advised to get custom orthotics, so fortunately I have med insurance that covers them, and they do make a big difference. If you plan on doing lots of long distance, and you spend over $100 just on bibs, spend the $200 and get custom insoles. Your feet will thank you for it.

The Superfeet yellow footbed is good.

IF that suits your foot arch . Big IF.

I had my Birkenstock phase , feet felt so much better I'm still, in it at 65.

My long distance self supported tours were with Birkenstock's cork composite
3/4 insoles. in my shoes.. rode all day long for months without foot discomfort.
now Birk US importer dropped bringing those in ,

so It is another direct customer-importer, postage thing, from Germany,
but web shoppers are used to that.

I got D2 custom carbon fibre shoes made a few years back. I hated the custom orthotics that I got with them- the arch was so high that they made me ride bow-legged. I put my last pair of self-molding inserts in and that made the shoes better than anything I'd had before. But not perfect. I recently bought some Giro shoes. I even used their insole. They're the best shoes I have had.

I did the Death Ride the other week and the Giro shoes were much better than the D2s. Just a little discomfort at the end.

Fietsbob,
I ordered my last pairs of Birks from a German on-line seller. No duties were charged for some reason, I fully expected to be charged an import duty. The insoles you mentioned interest me, could you post the products name and possibly a pic of them? My daily Birks feel very comfortable with my very wide feet and the sandles are my favorites around the house or on casual outings.

Ericm979 I wear the Alpinestars Tech 8 for motocross racing and the booties negate the need of an insole for me. Been wearing A'Stars since 1972, love 'em.

Can anyone recommend any road cycling shoes, other than the Specialized models, that are width sized? I am sure there many, I just have not found them, yet.

Fietsbob,
I ordered my last pairs of Birks from a German on-line seller. No duties were charged for some reason, I fully expected to be charged an import duty. The insoles you mentioned interest me, could you post the products name and possibly a pic of them? My daily Birks feel very comfortable with my very wide feet and the sandles are my favorites around the house or on casual outings.

Ericm979 I wear the Alpinestars Tech 8 for motocross racing and the booties negate the need of an insole for me. Been wearing A'Stars since 1972, love 'em.

Can anyone recommend any road cycling shoes, other than the Specialized models, that are width sized? I am sure there many, I just have not found them, yet.

Sidi makes many of their road and MTB shoes in a wide model... it's called the "Mega", I believe. Expensive shoes but worth it IMO.

OP: I'll offer a second recommendation for the Specialized BG footbeds.

I'm going to get shot at for suggesting this, but what about a recumbent. Much as I love my uprights, my recumbent is my long-distance bike. Last 200k I did, the only thing that was sore at the end were my quads.

I know that's not the question you asked, but the underlying question seemed to be "what equipment changes can I make to get me to a century?" Pardon me if I misinterpreted.

I'll second the Specialized suggestion. I wear EEE on the left foot. I got Comp MTB shoes in wide. I have no problems to date with them. Worth every penny I spent.

Mark Shuman

I'm going to get shot at for suggesting this, but what about a recumbent. Much as I love my uprights, my recumbent is my long-distance bike. Last 200k I did, the only thing that was sore at the end were my quads.

I know that's not the question you asked, but the underlying question seemed to be "what equipment changes can I make to get me to a century?" Pardon me if I misinterpreted.
That's what I'm talking about.

I'm going to ask this here instead of the roadie forum because I want the perspective of 50+'ers vs that of 20 yr old racers, or racer wannabes.

I'm 50, and I want to ride a century. I've not been able to do it yet due to mostly my body's inability to stay on a bike for enough time. I have a bad back that protests when I'm in the saddle for too long. But recently, I had to replace my shoes, and my feet are now the 1st thing that starts hurting (at about the 1hr point). Well, actually, one hot spot on one foot, so my feet are apparently not symmetrical. I'm not a racer, but since I want to be able to ride a century, I AM interested in long term comfort and efficiency. My new shoes are Shimano R087's, which I think are about as good as I'm going to get in terms of fit, because of my wide feet. I bought them at a shop, and tried on several different brands, and these Shimano's were the widest and best fitting. So that likely means finding an insole that works. After a little research, I find that this could be a $200 proposition, if I have to try several different brands. As an alternative, I've considered just using platform pedals and sneakers, which I use with no problem on my commuter. So the questions become:

1) How much efficiency do you gain with stiff soled road shoes vs softer sneakers & platform pedals?

2) How much effort will it likely take to find a suitable solution to get my shoes comfortable enough? Keep in mind that I'll likely need something that I can custom form to my foot, or something adjustable.

Thanks.

Hard to give objective answers to your questions to be honest with you.

I rode 150 miles in two days and then 110 miles in one day on an MTB with regular stock platform pedals and regular sneakers. For the most part my feet didn't hurt, although they were a little sore for a short time on the way back. Before I got to a point where I needed to stop one of the other guys needed a rest, so I took advantage of the free break and was fine from there. I've done 60-100 miles in a day a number of times on both an MTB and a cross bike using regular platforms and sneakers.

I think I'm faster climbing with my cycling shoes now (I use SPD pedals) although I'd struggle to objectively measure it. Certainly I find they are more comfortable for me - I don't like cycling in sneakers so much these days. Truth be told with so many variables involved - everything from how hydrated I am to how well I slept the night before to what I've eaten to headwinds - I doubt you'll ever be able to objectively measure how much power you gain with clipless over sneakers. If you're looking at stiff soles against soft soles without looking to clip in, any benefit you get will be reduced. If you're not clipping in then I'd say the issue becomes one of comfort, and doing what works for you. A friend of mine bought cycling shoes with stiff soles thinking they would help his cycling and as far as I can tell they haven't made much difference at all, although in fairness the thing he needs more than anything else is to improve the engine.

It took me several attempts to get the cleats on my shoes how I wanted them. The day I bought my cycling shoes I took them for a swift spin to get used to them, which was about 5 miles in all. A few days later their first proper ride was a 200k brevet, during which I adjusted them three or four times and towards the end I flipped the pedals (I have Shimano A530s, which have SPD on one side and platform on the other) because my feet were getting sore. Now I've adjsuted them a few more times I don't tend to have that problem, but haven't done another 200k since then.

If the $200 you mention is a problem for you why not look at getting platform pedals with a good amount of grip and riding them in regular sneakers? The rides I mentioned when I did 260 miles in four days (we rested on the third day) I was wearing regular clothes, regular sneakers and using regular platform pedals. No cycling shorts, no cycling shoes, no fancy pedals - aside from my helmet if I'd jumped off the bike and started walking you wouldn't have known I'd been cycling at all.

If you've got a specific hot spot on one foot, have you tried adjusting your foot position slightly? I had that issue with one foot using my SPDs, so I rotated the cleat a tiny amount, moved it sideways slightly, and the problem went away.

I took another ride yesterday. I'm definitely not over tightening my shoes. I had them loose enough that if I lifted my foot, I could get my foot completely off the footbed. Still had the problem. However, I noticed more pressure on the outer midfoot section of my right foot (where the problem is occurring).


Is it a hot spot or numbness? Hot spots are caused by friction. So, I'd consider different socks as my first step toward a solution. If you have no success with that, try any inexpensive sports insole. Here' an article mostly about foot numbness, but it has some information related to hot spots that you might find useful.

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Sole-Searching-Whats-Causing-Your-Foot-Numbness.htm
Not sure. It's not friction. I think it's more of a pressure point that eventually turns painful. I don't know how I missed the link you provided. I'll check that out.

Thanks.

Bemoore,
From what you just posted about the latest ride could there be a slight "bump" in the insole of your shoe, or in the sole itself? It sounds like a point is putting pressure in the spot you describe from the bottom of the shoe and into your foot. Even a really small place can telegraph through the insole and sock into your foot. If the pedal can push up in a soft spot of the sole it could be the culprit, also. Just a thought to check out, possibly. I hope you get this sorted out soon so you can get to riding.

Bill

I have problems with blisters on the balls of my feet. This isn't just in cycling as long walks and ellipticals are problematic as well. I use about a 3" piece of duct tape on them. I like the duct tape that has cloth backing as it sticks to my feet better. My riding buddy was amazed that his podiatrist did this to his feet as well. May not help but its a cheap thing to try.

I've seriously considered that, too. But I have scoliosis, and have had multiple surgeries to correct, so my back doesn't always predictably respond to typical corrective measures. If I had confidence that my body & back would respond predictably, I wouldn't hesitate to spend the bucks on a fitting.

Like the OP, I too have scoliosis -- thankfully a mild case, but it very definitely affects things (such as sometimes causing a LOT of pain). So, a couple comments:

i strongly agree with the OP that you need to be careful about fitters teliing you what to do... First, there are many types of scoliosis: congenital, ideopathic, single curve, multiple curves, high curves, low curves, etc. etc. etc... and nobody can tell them apart without an X-Ray. And, frankly, not even the orthopedic surgeons who treat it have much of an understanding of it. So, no, I would be very cautious with a bike fitter working without either an X-Ray or a deep knowledge of the condition (which nobody has anyways!).

And, for myself: I find that the opposite of the commonly accepted advise works for me: i can walk, run, lift, bend, twist and so on -- but I can't just stand or sit without a backrest! Likewise, I do well with drop bars -- but get me upright with a flat bar bike and my back will be killing me. That is so contrary to most people's understanding that I usually will not even mention it. They'll think I was crazy...
... The problem seems to be that my muscles go into spasms when they are required to keep my back upright without any support. The drop bars enable my arms to support my back so the muscles don't go into spasms trying to do all the work on their own.

But, good luck with the shoes! I sort of like the original question which I will rephrase as:
"If walking shoes work OK for me, why should I get a pair of road shoes -- especially if they hurt?"

Hard to give objective answers to your questions to be honest with you.

I rode 150 miles in two days and then 110 miles in one day on an MTB with regular stock platform pedals and regular sneakers. For the most part my feet didn't hurt, although they were a little sore for a short time on the way back. Before I got to a point where I needed to stop one of the other guys needed a rest, so I took advantage of the free break and was fine from there. I've done 60-100 miles in a day a number of times on both an MTB and a cross bike using regular platforms and sneakers.

I think I'm faster climbing with my cycling shoes now (I use SPD pedals) although I'd struggle to objectively measure it. Certainly I find they are more comfortable for me - I don't like cycling in sneakers so much these days. Truth be told with so many variables involved - everything from how hydrated I am to how well I slept the night before to what I've eaten to headwinds - I doubt you'll ever be able to objectively measure how much power you gain with clipless over sneakers. If you're looking at stiff soles against soft soles without looking to clip in, any benefit you get will be reduced. If you're not clipping in then I'd say the issue becomes one of comfort, and doing what works for you. A friend of mine bought cycling shoes with stiff soles thinking they would help his cycling and as far as I can tell they haven't made much difference at all, although in fairness the thing he needs more than anything else is to improve the engine.

It took me several attempts to get the cleats on my shoes how I wanted them. The day I bought my cycling shoes I took them for a swift spin to get used to them, which was about 5 miles in all. A few days later their first proper ride was a 200k brevet, during which I adjusted them three or four times and towards the end I flipped the pedals (I have Shimano A530s, which have SPD on one side and platform on the other) because my feet were getting sore. Now I've adjsuted them a few more times I don't tend to have that problem, but haven't done another 200k since then.

If the $200 you mention is a problem for you why not look at getting platform pedals with a good amount of grip and riding them in regular sneakers? The rides I mentioned when I did 260 miles in four days (we rested on the third day) I was wearing regular clothes, regular sneakers and using regular platform pedals. No cycling shorts, no cycling shoes, no fancy pedals - aside from my helmet if I'd jumped off the bike and started walking you wouldn't have known I'd been cycling at all.

If you've got a specific hot spot on one foot, have you tried adjusting your foot position slightly? I had that issue with one foot using my SPDs, so I rotated the cleat a tiny amount, moved it sideways slightly, and the problem went away.

In these parts, virtually all the MTB riders use platform pedals, due to steep and technical trails (ie freeride). FiveTen, the climbing shoe maker, makes a freeride shoe that looks like a sneaker but is somewhat stiffer and has a sticky rubber sole for better pedal grip. In fact, i have a pair in high tops. Maybe thats something to try.

bemoore,

A lot of good suggestions have been given here and a lot of things for you to consider. Although much of the information posted works well for the poster (including me) it may not work for you. That being said, here is just another thing to consider.

If you are using walking or running shoes, have you tried different ones? On the road bike, I wear cycling shoes (Specialized BG Pro MTB shoes with el cheapo bulk pack, cotton socks) on all but my Saturday club rides. On my hybrid, I wear Reebok Renaissance Classic walking shoes with platform pedals. I also wear the Reeboks on my Saturday club rides because there are too many stops riding through the city that for me, it's a PIA to constantly clip in and out. The Reeboks are very well cushioned on the inside and extremely comfortable. So much so, that, other than dress shoes, these have been the only shoes I have worn for the past 10 years. They also have a very thick sole with excellent grip. When I use them to ride with my road bike, I normally have platform adaptors that I snap in the SPD pedals (M520's). There are times when I don't always get a change to flip them over right away and I end up riding on the small surface of the pedal. I have ridden several miles using these shoes and riding on the pedals instead of the adaptors and sometimes don't even know it. On the hybrid, I can ride it all day with these shoes and my feet never get sore or tired. If cycling shoes are a problem for you at this time, it may be worth your while to try different types of shoes (if you're planning to ride with platform pedals) at one of the large shoe outlets, like Shoe Carnival. The Reebok work well for me, but there are others that are similar that may end up working for you. Plus, it may be a cheaper way to approach and possibly solve the problem.

As for the problem with the back and doing a century, that sounds like it could be anything from a fit issue to a positional issue. If it's a fit issue I would second a professional fitting. A doctor, with or without an X-ray machine, isn't going to properly fit that bike to you. There are different types of fittings and, in my opinion, the Retul fitting is the top of the line. You may want to consider this, after consulting with your doctor. The Retul fitting is a real time, 3D capture of what you are actually doing when riding the bike and does show the pressure you are applying to certain areas of your body, including your back. This may or may not be the solution to your problem but it's worth considering. You may also have to come to terms that no matter what you do or try, your back is going to hurt regardless of fit or position.

With ski boots, which are designed to be as snug as possible to produce maximum control of the skis, it is common to develop a hot spot in the ball of the foot. A chapter on boot fitting in a ski instruction book, spoke about the foot sometimes needing support at the mid-foot from a metatarsal pad. The explanation was that the foot naturally has a bit of a hollow in the same way the palm of the hand has a hollow. For some people not having the pad creates the hot foot effect. Metatarsal pads are easily available and inexpensive at pharmacies or on line.

I recently had discomfort in the ball of foot area that was not quite a hot spot but a bit painful anyway and was cured with a home made metatarsal pad on the right foot. I also had a numb big tow on the same foot. This past week-end I went on a overnight tour with Jim Muller and wife Sharon. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/834200-berner-s-and-Sharon-and-Jim-s-Big-Adventure I've been pondering what to do about the numb toe. I had thought the straps on the bikeing shoes were done up relatively loosely but at a loss for what to try, I loosened the straps some more and the numbness has gone away. So the message is to keep trying things until you find what works.

See http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/articles/iftheshoefits/

And various other articles and information on his site.

I personally like the insoles you bake at low temp in an oven . You then place these in the shoe ,then put your foot in, and it assumes the shape best suited to you in particular . They also seem to last a long time . The ones in my Doc Martins are so old I can't see who made them