Professional Cycling For the Fans - Grand Tours and Radios

Did you guys see with yesterday's Olympic road race how a "no radio" policy can make for an exciting bicycle race.

I say the UCI should ban the friggin team radios. They can use a single UCI/event organizer radio channel to warn racers of road hazards and such. The argument from the pro peloton always revolve around safety, so the single radio channel can take care of that.

We are gonna keep having unexciting races as long as DS can shout locations, encouragements etc into their team members' ears.

Discuss.

While we're at it, how about no bike changes. Riders are allowed 1 wheel change. After that, they have to fix their own flats.

And maybe we should just ban teams altogether. If anyone is seen helping anyone, automatic DQ.

That would be so exciting...

You can't deny that radio has changed modern bicycle racing.

I'll prefer you focus on that, rather than all the other stuff you mentioned.

I support a ban on radios.

While we're at it, how about no bike changes. Riders are allowed 1 wheel change. After that, they have to fix their own flats.

And maybe we should just ban teams altogether. If anyone is seen helping anyone, automatic DQ.

That would be so exciting...

Jesus. Keep putting up strawmen and we'll keep knocking them down.

No one is asking that these things be implemented.

Did you guys see with yesterday's Olympic road race how a "no radio" policy can make for an exciting bicycle race.
The lack of race radios isn't why the breaks succeeded. The peloton knew that 20+ men were off the front by less than 2 minutes.

The reason why the break succeeded in this year's Olympic road race is because a 5-man team isn't powerful enough to control the race, and the other sprinter teams (e.g. Germany, Belgium) didn't want to help GB set up Cav.



I say the UCI should ban the friggin team radios.
Yes, I'm sure it will be much safer to have the DS driving right next to the riders and screaming at them. :rolleyes:



We are gonna keep having unexciting races as long as DS can shout locations, encouragements etc into their team members' ears.
Did you really not notice how many breaks went off the front in the last week or so of this year's TdF?

Can you assert, with a straight face, that every exciting stage in every pro race since the late 90s has been boring? Were most of the people who kvetch about "zomg race radio boring" actually watching races in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

Considering that there was no real time Internet updates, and TV coverage was basically a few hours of highlights on the weekends, I'm calling "whatever" on proclamations that racing has "gotten boring" due to race radios, or that getting rid of them will fix anything.

The lack of race radios isn't why the breaks succeeded. The peloton knew that 20+ men were off the front by less than 2 minutes.

The reason why the break succeeded in this year's Olympic road race is because a 5-man team isn't powerful enough to control the race, and the other sprinter teams (e.g. Germany, Belgium) didn't want to help GB set up Cav.

I did not say the lack of radio was the reason the break succeeded. I said it makes for a more interesting and exciting race.

It is true re: the Belgians and Germans were not about to help set up Cavendish, but I also believe a DS with radio could have changed the tactic of the English riders,(which was pull each other to death to deliver Cav to the sprint) and communicate same to them. In the heat of battle, the English riders could not read the race well and adjust their tactics accordingly. That is my point.

You can't deny that radio has changed modern bicycle racing.

Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.

However, the 2-way radio, which is apparently some kind of new-fangled gizmo that's only been around for decades, is the only one worthy of attention.

I hear there's even newer technology just over the horizon. It's like a telephone but without wires.

It is true re: the Belgians and Germans were not about to help set up Cavendish, but I also believe a DS with radio could have changed the tactic of the English riders,(which was pull each other to death to deliver Cav to the sprint) and communicate same to them. In the heat of battle, the English riders could not read the race well and adjust their tactics accordingly. That is my point.

And change their tactics how exactly? GB didn't stand a chance, and radios wouldn't have helped.

What made the race particularly interesting were the small, unevenly matched teams. It essentially turned the race into a free-for-all, particularly well suited for guys like Vino.

You'll be happy to know that another similar race will take place in Rio just 4 years from now.

+1

I don't see what additional options GB would gain with radios. I mean, really, were they going to slip Wiggo into the break? Why would they need radios to do that?

Even without radios, I'm sure they knew that the break was huge and contained several top riders, and I have little doubt GB did everything they could to close it down in the last 25km. They just miscalculated, as did Germany and Belgium.

Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.

However, the 2-way radio, which is apparently some kind of new-fangled gizmo that's only been around for decades, is the only one worthy of attention.

I hear there's even newer technology just over the horizon. It's like a telephone but without wires.You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about
I remember the days before race radios...
no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe, unlike the non-radio halcyon
days where the excitement of pro cycling was a global phenomenon. Nope, now all we see are boring races caused by race
radios, mass crashes, caused by race radios. It's no wonder why pro-cycling is the least popular it has ever been all over the world!

I consider two-way radios important, although some have mentioned here that before, there were less crashes and accidents, etc., I don't think the radios were at fault, but it's with the rider.

Lack of radios realy does one thing...delays the info the riders get. Race radio will still report the break and chase times via motorcycle and a blackboard. The other thing is that they really cannot discuss strategy, but in depth discussion of that did not happen before because others can listen.

You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about
I remember the days before race radios...
no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe, unlike the non-radio halcyon
days where the excitement of pro cycling was a global phenomenon. Nope, now all we see are boring races caused by race
radios, mass crashes, caused by race radios. ]It's no wonder why pro-cycling is the least popular it has ever been all over the world!

Got a link for this statement?

Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.


You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about

Actually, you have no clue what I was talking..um, about. Nothing you said has any relevance to what I said.

Lack of radios realy does one thing...delays the info the riders get. Race radio will still report the break and chase times via motorcycle and a blackboard. The other thing is that they really cannot discuss strategy, but in depth discussion of that did not happen before because others can listen.

Race radios enable directors to micro manage what their rider is doing. Cyclists no longer have to keep track of who is in a break, if and when to start a chase and when doing so how hard they need to ride. Every single thing they do is because their director told them to. It would be like an American NFL quarterback not only getting the next play radioed to him but the coach telling him what receivers were open and who to throw to while the play was unfolding.

Can we at least agree that televisions should be removed from the directors cars?

I did not say the lack of radio was the reason the break succeeded. I said it makes for a more interesting and exciting race.

Okay, but the only reason why people are saying it was an interesting and exciting race was because the break succeeded.

I consider two-way radios important, although some have mentioned here that before, there were less crashes and accidents, etc., I don't think the radios were at fault, but it's with the rider.


Got a link for this statement?
I think cat4lifer was being sarcastic. ;)

I remember the days before race radios...
no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe,

All of that due to race radios huh? Nothing to do with:

- Live television and resulting sponsorship
- A more international field resulting in more evenly matched riders
- Power meters on the bikes
- Bike technology plateauing
- Improved sports medicine

Okay, if you say so...

Actually, you have no clue what I was talking..um, about. Nothing you said has any relevance to what I said.
You know something. you have a point there.

I think cat4lifer was being sarcastic. ;)Sarcasm: I see you haz it too. lol

There is racing? Wow, most of the time there is just a bunch of guys riding around in a group.

All of that due to race radios huh? Nothing to do with:

- Live television and resulting sponsorship
- A more international field resulting in more evenly matched riders
- Power meters on the bikes
- Bike technology plateauing
- Improved sports medicine

Okay, if you say so...

Gosh did the sarcasm go right over your head.

Gosh did the sarcasm go right over your head.

It did, apparently. Yikes...

Race radios enable directors to micro manage what their rider is doing. Cyclists no longer have to keep track of who is in a break, if and when to start a chase and when doing so how hard they need to ride. Every single thing they do is because their director told them to. It would be like an American NFL quarterback not only getting the next play radioed to him but the coach telling him what receivers were open and who to throw to while the play was unfolding.

Can we at least agree that televisions should be removed from the directors cars?

If I were a director I'd hate the idea of losing my TV. And I think they are justified in a way. Sort of unfair for everyone second guessing them to actually have far more information than they do.

I have second thoughts about doing away with race radios also. Mainly because of how the trailing cars are determined. No radio serves to increase the advantage of the leading teams.

Going back to football. They have radios, but only for one player. Why not the same for cycling? For a second I was thinking that would be bad as defensive communications mioght be better, and that is sort of true, but communicating to the team car when in a break is not that difficult.

It did, apparently. Yikes...

Happens to all of us sooner or later. The reasonably smart and mature paople admit it and mocve on. Sometimes the main fault doesn't even rest on anyone in the thread involved. If one reads enough really stupid posts it can be easy to miss the keys to sarcasm.

But go back and read the last part of post 11 about it now being limited to a few countries in Europe. reading it slowly (not the way I usually read things) I think it is unmistakable. read it quick and my brain might flip thigns to make it right.

I've thought a lot about the radio question. I think the safety argument cuts both ways. I can see that the provision of information might avoid some unnecessary risks, but I don't think the constant exhortations of the DS to get near the front do much for calmness in the peloton.

But the excitement argument cuts both ways too. I can remember an awful lot of stages in the old days that were barely animated at all, the peloton rode 100 miles at touring speeds before anything happened in the last twenty minutes. No radios is not a guarantee of adventurous attacks.

On balance I'd like to see them experiment for two or three years with no radios. It might make the flat stages less predictable and create enough anxiety to force the GC contenders to race a little less conservatively from time to time. No harm in trying it, anyway.

One thing that seems to get forgotten is a lot has changed besides radios. The number of riders being key as I see it.

In 1969 Merckx broke away from the group of 8 riders he was in near the top of the next to last climb.

Now there are lots of reasons why this may never happen again. But I think the key one is that with so many more riders the situatuion would never have presented itself. By that point there was this group of 8, all contenders or their lieutenants and another group of about a dozen chasing them. That group also mainly riders who mattered.

In todays world even if the first group had been the same the second would have been huge and the odds would ahve been that during the flat parts it would have regrouped and grown one group of 30 or 40. It is rather likely that the splintering up to that point never would have happened if the numbers then were similar to now.

Just for reference that was stage 17. 87 riders finished that day. This year 153 riders finished the Tour. Those numbers mean crashes and also breaks getting caught (without even using energy of the key riders of the chasing teams most of the time).

It did, apparently. Yikes...
No worries. lol And I share a lot, if not all, of your feelings/opinions on the subject.

What I don't get is why the fundamental issue (how fast should information
be allowed to be relayed from the DS to the rider(s)) is never discussed. No one,
from what I've read, has suggested that DS be removed from the following-caravan
or not be allowed to offer up advice or issue directives. So, it doesn't seem that they
object to the role of DS--it's just they seem to feel that the info is transferred too fast
from DS to rider(s), and they want to somehow limit and/or slow it down. Which seems
very odd to me. Seems to me that what they are saying is: "we don't object to DS coaching
the riders, we'd just like it to be more difficult for them to do so, by slowing down the transfer
of information, because we believe that will make for a more interesting race." At the core, that
is no different than saying: "We don't object to mechanics changing flats, we just want to make
the changes slower, because we believe it will make for a more interesting race."

The idea of slowing down the mechanic's job of changing a flat for the riders seems to me, of course,
idiotic; but, it seems no less idiotic than trying to slow down the DS from relaying information to the
riders. Either allow mechanic to change a flat or don't; similarly, either allow the DS to relay information
or don't. Rather silly, it seems to me, to say it's ok for the DS to relay information to the riders, but just
not "too fast"--whatever "too fast" means.

.:Edit:.
Actually, the fundamental issues are: should DS be allowed to function as they always have?
If so, why should their role be limited because people don't like or approve of the way technology
has aided them in doing what has always been their job?

On balance I'd like to see them experiment for two or three years with no radios.
The UCI has tried repeatedly since 2010 to ban race radios. Basically, everyone who isn't the UCI hates it. E.g. the UCI banned radios in domestic races in 2010, USA Cycling ignored it about a year later, and the teams threatened to pull out of the Tour of Beijing in late 2011 if the UCI went ahead with the full ban.

ASO also tried to ban radios in some stages last year, and the riders protested.

And again, we've seen plenty of breaks and exciting stages even with race radios.