Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Aargh... Broken chainwhip...

So I was replacing the bearings in my Surly hub, and used it as an excuse to take off my cogs and clean them before the salt and grime got them too stuck on...

Apparently I was too late - one side will always have a 14t cog stuck on it. I was putting on a lot of pressure, and snapped the chain off of my whip. I had already modified it from the 3/32 to a 1/8, but had never been able to replace the first two links (chain tool won't fit). This was after getting the first side off, unfortunatly. Without a new chain (can't get until next weekend), I can't use the 14t safely. It's too far forward if I shorten the chain enough...

So a couple of questions :

1) Anyone try using a master link as the first link on a chainwhip? This is probably what I'll do next... It doesn't seem too likely to hold.

2) Any getto home remedies for getting a cog on nice and tight w/o a whip?

I'm about to start searching the forum, but the sooner I can get it back together, the sooner I can move on to the rest of the maintinance and repair I'm trying to get done this weekend.

(oh, and mods, I know this is mechanical in nature, but it's on a fixie, and I think I'd get a faster answer here...)

Thanks for any help!

Spin the cog on by hand, and then assemble the wheel and cog, and ride it. Start slowly at first, and DO NOT back pedal at all or skid. This could spin the cog off. The idea is to get the cog really tight by pedaling, and then put the lockring on.

So I guess I need to get the brake back on, too... There's another hour. Dang new-fangled brakes...

Sounds like a good idea to do for a while anyways.

You do not need the back brake at all. You are misunderstanding me. Just spin the cog on by hand as tight as possible, and then ride slowly around, with hardly any pressure. You just have to ride up your street, or around the block really slowly, and use your front brake to stop.
A cog gets really tight after a little bit of riding. Riding the bike is a much better way of tightening the cog than a chainwhip.

if you have a vise, put a block of wood on each jaw to protect the teeth of the cog, and spin the rim to tighten the cog down.
if you don't mind the possibility of scratches, you could use the italian track method. described here: http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm
you could try padding the BB shell with a rag or such.
and the riding method bostonfixed described works as well, just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it i guess.

and the riding method bostonfixed described works as well, just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it i guess.

You guys! Its not time or labor intensive at all! Just put the cog on, and then ride the bike slowly, for about 10 minutes. Do not skid or backpedal during this time. Then put the lockring on! It's Easy!

i think the riding method is actually the quickest and easiest. the others require a bit more time and tools.

I use a pipe wrench for all of my cog installation and removal. I've never had a problem ruining teeth with 1/8" EAI cogs, although I imagine lesser cogs might be prone to getting chewed up with this method.

2) Any getto home remedies for getting a cog on nice and tight w/o a whip?


Didn't someone recently post a method of tightening the cog by somehow binding the chain? I don't really remember how this worked, but somehow the chain was doubled up on itself so that it didn't slip and then you would grab the wheel by the spokes and really crank it. Was this called "the italian fixie solution" or something like that?

Anybody remember this?

Uh, there's no front brake on at the moment - that's what I meant by putting the brake back on.

I ended up just putting it on the bike and holding the wheel in place w/ one hand while pushing with the other (my brother's advice). Seemed to get it on there pretty tight. It's being held down by a Phil Wood lockring that I jammed on as tight as I could. It should hold for a ride or two. I'm going to get the front brake back on (hopefully) and carry my Hozan with me for awhile, I think...

Didn't someone recently post a method of tightening the cog by somehow binding the chain? I don't really remember how this worked, but somehow the chain was doubled up on itself so that it didn't slip and then you would grab the wheel by the spokes and really crank it. Was this called "the italian fixie solution" or something like that?

Anybody remember this?

yeah there was a thread on this...actually, here

http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

for the record i'm not advocating it

park tools sells replacement pins for their chainwhips. i've broken two chainwhips at my shop. the first time it happened, i was trying to get a cassette lockring off and the screw shot out and hit another mech. in the head. the second time it happened, i was working on my bike, trying to get the cog off, and one of the other mechanics saw it happen exclaimed: "WTF, i've never seen THAT happen before!!!"

I don't know if a replacement pin would work - I need to just get one that's 1/8" instead of whatever the skinny one is. I've never gotten those to work. I replaced the original chain awhile ago. I think the problem was that I was kind of at an angle, trying to avoid skinning my knuckles again...

i should've said replacement screws. because that's what they are...or you can use any skinny nut and bolt combo that'll fit through the hole on the chainwhip.

That's a good idea. I think the cog is on good (just got back and it seems fine, I'll check the lockring tomorrow) but I do want to get the other one off to clean out the grime.

yeah there was a thread on this...actually, here

http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

for the record i'm not advocating it

Thanks! That's what I was thinking of. It looks like a good way of hunkering down the cog. I still wouldn't trust it without a lockring, but it looks like a good method for tightening the cog.

Give it a try HereNT and let us know how it works.

Spin the cog on by hand, and then assemble the wheel and cog, and ride it. Start slowly at first, and DO NOT back pedal at all or skid. This could spin the cog off. The idea is to get the cog really tight by pedaling, and then put the lockring on.

My experience with riding on cogs is not good, they have loosend again the times i have tried this method. I would say you can tighten the cog more by using a chain whip.
I have broken(bend) my first whip so now i got this:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/penncyclebuy/588-893.html
Rock solid, costs a small fortune but it is the best piece of tool i've got.

My experience with riding on cogs is not good, they have loosend again the times i have tried this method. I would say you can tighten the cog more by using a chain whip.

???
You'll get a cog way tighter with this method than you will with a chain whip.

Boston Fixed is right, listen to him/her. I'll take it a step further though, after installing, instead of riding right away, just put the front wheel against the wall and stand on the pedals, pushing forward hard. Then tighten lockring, go do a normal ride and check the lockring when you return.

As far as getting the stuck cog off, try some penetrating oil, then stand on the pedals as described above but "pedal backwards". Your legs are way stronger than your arms will ever be and you won't have a whip to slip off.

I have tryed that metod with the front wheel against a wall putting all my weight in to the pedals and i weigh 100kg, but the next day on work it spins right off.

In my world the chainwhip is the best way to go, and you can tighten the cog better.
Thats just my experience if you think you can tighten the cog harder by riding, its fine with me.

I have tryed that metod with the front wheel against a wall putting all my weight in to the pedals and i weigh 100kg, but the next day on work it spins right off.
Are you not using a lockring? Otherwise, how is it spinning off?

i just stomp on the front pedal a few times while holding the bike. not elegant, but it works for me.

Works perfectly for me too, always has. This method has never failed:

1) Grease the threads on the hub, lockring and sprocket.
2) Spin on the sprocket and stomp the pedal a couple of times.
3) Spin on the lockring and tap it tight.
4) Ride the sprocket on hard.
5) Wow, the lockring's loose after that, so tighten it hard - I use a hammer and flat screwdriver.

Job done, forget about it until you decide to strip or change cogs. Now have a beer.

I wholly endorse the above method with the exception that I'd personally drop the dough on a lockring wrench or stop by the LBS to get it wrenched down. But YMMV.

Anyhow, your weight + the power developed by your thighs at the end of a 165mm lever is going to be way more torque than what you can do just with your arm muscles on a similarly long lever. Unless you're some sort of Popeye freak...

You do not need the back brake at all. You are misunderstanding me. Just spin the cog on by hand as tight as possible, and then ride slowly around, with hardly any pressure. You just have to ride up your street, or around the block really slowly, and use your front brake to stop.
A cog gets really tight after a little bit of riding. Riding the bike is a much better way of tightening the cog than a chainwhip.

Ditto on this. for me. I have a hell of a time getting the cogs off...

Works perfectly for me too, always has. This method has never failed:

1) Grease the threads on the hub, lockring and sprocket.
2) Spin on the sprocket and stomp the pedal a couple of times.
3) Spin on the lockring and tap it tight.
4) Ride the sprocket on hard.
5) Wow, the lockring's loose after that, so tighten it hard - I use a hammer and flat screwdriver.

Job done, forget about it until you decide to strip or change cogs. Now have a beer.

That's pretty much what I did. I always use grease, not locktight... That's probably why after I cleaned some of the road grit, all of my threads were still shiny and new looking. I wouldn't use a hammer and screwdriver, though. My Hozan lockring tool does the job just fine, and doesn't mangle the ring...

Just spin the cog on by hand as tight as possible, and then ride slowly around, with hardly any pressure. You just have to ride up your street, or around the block really slowly, and use your front brake to stop.
A cog gets really tight after a little bit of riding. Riding the bike is a much better way of tightening the cog than a chainwhip.

so could you get a cog off by removing the lockring and spinning the cranks backward?

so could you get a cog off by removing the lockring and spinning the cranks backward?

With a lot of force, yes. Like the method previously suggested. Put the rear wheel against a wall, align the cranks so you can stand one foot on one, and bounce on that crank arm. This will remove the cog, as long as the lockring is off...

Slacking the chain against the BB and wrapping it (like in the link posted) works the best of all the methods in my experience.

You can use a master link as the first link in a chain tool, I do.

I built this out of some bar stock
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jtrain/ChainWhip.JPG

My server blows so if for some reason the link does not load just hit the reload button and the image should come up.

if you use the method of yarding on the wheel with the chain wrapped you get two advantages over standing on the pedals.

Your gearing is setup for speed not torque so the advantage is actually to the cog not to your lever arm (crank arms). if you are pulling on a 700C wheel then you have a leaver arm of about 8 to 1 over the cog.

In addition there is no "flex" in the above method, whereas when you stand on the pedals there is "flex" in the movement of the bike and other factors.

Milo

Are you not using a lockring? Otherwise, how is it spinning off?

I was using a little to narrow cog, so it got loose to the point where it met the lockring.
I didn't have a spacer at that time, which i have now. But the only way i could get it tight enough was with a whip..

I can strip the treads on a hub using a whip, you wont ever be able to do that using the cranks as a leaver.

Come on, there must be some science geek out there, that can do a little math on it, and tell everyone i'm right?

Wait, I thought that because of the gearing on the bike, you get less torque and more speed at the rear cog/wheel than at the chainring. Also, the chainwhip I used was a lot longer than a bicycle crank, meaning more leverage. I think this is why I haven't been able to spin the cog off while skidding, even without a lockring.

But what do I know, I was a philosophy major.