"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Wheel choice for racing

I'm looking to do some racing and thinking of some upgrades to my bike I ride a caad 9 and I'd like some new wheels. Racing will primarily be crits and fairly flat road courses. Are tubular wheels worth the investment compared to clinchers? If I purchase a tubular wheel I won't train and commute with it and will need to either run my stock shimano rs30s or purchase an additional clincher wheelset. Not sure if it's important but I'm ~185lb looking to be ~170 by the early spring. Currently looking at Boyd, williams, november, psimet. Thank you in advance.

get something with a rim depth of 41mm

41mm - subtle.

buy a set of wheels which you feel confident in, and ones which you will never think about again - then go race them, repeatedly if at all possible.
my advice - don't buy wheels, buy race fees.

They're all good. Tubulars are generally lighter and faster than clinchers but they cost a hell of a lot more.

Much higher up on my list for a beginning racer are a real bike fit, at least two kits, race fees, transportation, and nutrition.

Open ****ing Pros.

Especially in cat 4/5 races, you want something that can survive.. don't be the guy on Zipps in cat 5.

I appreciate the advice! I'll hold off until I move up and have a better idea what I want.

Open ****ing Pros.

Especially in cat 4/5 races, you want something that can survive.. don't be the guy on Zipps in cat 5.

....or the perpetual cat 4 with PSIMETs.......wait....nvrmnd.............

Open ****ing Pros.

Especially in cat 4/5 races, you want something that can survive.. don't be the guy on Zipps in cat 5.

Open Pros are not known for surviving based on my experience and many others. They crack around the spoke hole.



Much higher up on my list for a beginning racer are a real bike fit, at least two kits, race fees, transportation, and nutrition.

And then if you still have moeny left over, coaching and/or powermeter.

Open ****ing Pros.

Especially in cat 4/5 races, you want something that can survive.. don't be the guy on Zipps in cat 5.

Move along, nothin to see here.... :innocent:

I paid $250 in entry fees for the last 2 weekends of racing (7 races though). Not including hotel ~$100/2 = $50, gas = $100, food = ~$25, chip = $15, who knows what else. That's about one zipp or so a month I pay to race. This will always be a much better investment than wheels IMO. Keep that in mind. Now a powermeter is a tougher decision. :thumb:

Open Pros are not known for surviving based on my experience and many others. They crack around the spoke hole.


So I've heard, but only from fat people.. =]

You don't need "race wheels" for racing.

If I were you and were in need of new wheels, I'd buy some mid range clinchers on sale and race lots. Entry fees, travel, etc. sucks the budget a big one.
Many a Cat 3 around here don't own race wheels.
Plenty of masters 45+ riders around here own race wheels...

They are nice, but 1k will usually get a starting racer so much more.

You don't need "race wheels" for racing.

If I were you and were in need of new wheels, I'd buy some mid range clinchers on sale and race lots. Entry fees, travel, etc. sucks the budget a big one.
Many a Cat 3 around here don't own race wheels.
Plenty of masters 45+ riders own race wheels...




They are nice but the 1k spent on them is a very small diminishing return.
Unless there is big money avail. I use 32h handbuilt clinchers for crits.
Decided to use my 404s on a training ride a while back, hit something at 35+ and destroyed a new tubbie, learned that lesson...

Yep, I've won and lost bunches on 32h aluminum clinchers. I'm sure that nicer wheels would help, but not enough to justify spending the money for myself.

You don't need "race wheels" for racing.
...

No, you don't, though it is definitely handy to have an extra set of wheels (of some type) with good rubber on them lying around. Use the wheels with good tires for the race; use the wheels you train on in the wheel pit.

The "race" wheels don't have to be anything special. A spare set of 32 spoke clinchers will do just fine.

I have a pair of Dura Ace C50 tubulars that I bought second hand for ~$1000 and I use them for collegiate B and cat 4 racing. Bombproof wheels, super stiff, crashed them several times and no damage at all (except a little on the skewers). I weigh around 190 and they're my favorite. The 16/20 spoke count worried me for a little, but it's perfectly fine and I'm very hard on my gear. If 50mm is too deep, the C35's are a great alternative.

When I ride them after riding my Aksium training wheels, it's like night and day. I'm probably going to get a pair of the c24 clinchers too since they're also extremely well built and stiff and use them for racing/training.

OP - you're in Wethersfield. Can you make it to Rentschler Field on Tuesday nights? 6 PM for B race, about 6:45 for A. I'm assuming you already race since you seem to have an idea of what you will be racing. If not then you should start racing now, as soon as possible (but after you've done some smaller group rides to get an idea on how to ride in a group).

Wed nights is the NGX series at Ninigret Park RI - they're so casual there aren't even numbers (at least there weren't last year). Wed night is also the Bethel Summer Series.

I mention the races because you can go watch them and see what others use. You'll be surprised at the wide variety of wheels, and under which riders. The break riders may not have aero wheels and the guys getting shelled may. Etc.

As far as race wheels go my blanket recommendation is to get a really tall light tubular in the rear (70-90mm height), 20 spoke or so. For the front get something similar (60-90mm) for normal condition days and a lower height rim for windy days (30-40?mm). I don't have a solid recommendation for the low profile wheel because I don't have one at this time - I just use my training (clincher) wheels when it's super windy or raining. If I had the option I'd buy a Stinger4 and a Stinger 7 or 9 for the front, sell my Stinger6 set, and buy a Stinger7 or 9 rear. I'd have just the rear wheel plus two fronts.

You can always use an aero rear wheel, in virtually any wind conditions, at almost any speeds. The fastest I ever went in a sprint and on a descent was with a TriSpoke/HED3 rear wheel.

An aero front wheel really helps since the front wheel hits more clean air than the rear. I use a Stinger6 and it's good in pretty much anything. I figure I give a bit away in ideal wind conditions (cross tailwind). My fastest sprint had me using a TriSpoke/HED3 front wheel (with the same in the rear). I don't have proof it's the fastest of wheels but it seems that everyone that does immense amounts of testing returns to the HED3 front wheel for TTs (Wiggins, Armstrong, etc). I've felt that wheel to be the fastest of all the wheels I've ever ridden, but the set I have are heavier and both rims have slight damage. I don't have a taller front wheel else I'd use one.

A less aero front wheel lets you maintain control when it's really gusty or you're going really fast and there's unpredictable wind (like 50 mph on a downhill while being passed by 18 wheelers 5 feet away). When I go out knowing I'll hit 45+ mph descents I purposely fit a low profile front wheel (training clincher). If I had a racing version of one I'd use it in similar conditions, but since I don't I just use the training wheel.

After all that, one thing you'll notice is that the guys really putting the hurt on everyone at the Rent are the CCNS guys. They all ride non-aero Mavic Ksyriums, attached to relatively innocuous Raleigh carbon frames. They usually put in miles before the race, maybe some after, and they really do treat it as just part of a training ride. Yet they regularly crush everyone else. They're proof that the legs make the difference.

Wheels can make a few % points here and there but it won't change the overall profile of the rider. Me using a disk rear and a 90mm front won't make me a time trialer but it'll let me go a few tenths faster for a short period of time. Slapping on some 303s or Stinger4s won't make me climb much better compared to other racers but it may help me knock a few seconds off of a mile long climb. The coarse improvements, the vast ones, come from racing better. This is especially true in flatter courses where gravity is less a factor.

See you out there
cdr

They're all good. Tubulars are generally lighter and faster than clinchers but they cost a hell of a lot more.

Much higher up on my list for a beginning racer are a real bike fit, at least two kits, race fees, transportation, and nutrition.

+100000

Wheels, IMO, are only a priority if your current set is really heavy or unreliable.

Getting out there and racing should be your first priority. Go enjoy the sport first on what you have and reward yourself if you stay with it. You're 98% of the way there in terms of equipment with a CAAD9.

So I've heard, but only from fat people.. =]

Big boned people too :innocent:

As for wheels, I like having dedicated race wheels, but no need to spend big bucks. Waiting for the right deal on used wheels is how I like to go. My bike budget is on the low side compared to many.

Cdr I don't race but I will likely try to get out on Tuesday in a couple weeks.

i personally like round wheels over square wheels, so i would advise you get some round wheels :)

Buy two discs. and a couple aerospokes.

Cdr I don't race but I will likely try to get out on Tuesday in a couple weeks.

The Rent series ends August 15th.

My race wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Elite clinchers, GP4000s, Michelin latex tubes. At the Rent I usually run my training wheels, Mavic Aksium Race, Rubino Pro, Giant tubes. I have done pretty well no matter what wheels I am running.

I'll pipe in and agree with the guys saying not to worry about race wheels...

I picked up a set of 50mm carbon tubulars and yes they ride nicer then my psimet aluminum clincher training wheels, but they have made absolutely no difference in my performance...I'm slow with any wheelset...

I'm one of those masters age riders with some disposable income who ran into an awesome team deal on wheels that I could not refuse :)

Wheel choice for racing

round.

The Rent series ends August 15th.

My race wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Elite clinchers, GP4000s, Michelin latex tubes. At the Rent I usually run my training wheels, Mavic Aksium Race, Rubino Pro, Giant tubes. I have done pretty well no matter what wheels I am running.I'm pretty sure that the last 3 are 7th, 14th and the 21st.

I'm pretty sure that the last 3 are 7th, 14th and the 21st.

You are correct.

Get down there.

Thanks for all your help.

If you're looking at Boyd Wheels... get the Vitesse Alloy Clinchers. ~1520grams. Stiffy and pretty lightweight. I just started racing this year...

6th in my first Cat 5 crit with 40 riders on those wheels. They were a huge upgrade over the stock wheels on my Madone. Saved a pound, and much stiffer. For ~$550, that should get you a good enough wheel for the price point to be able to compete in Cat 4/5 as your cycling gets stronger.
They're also my everyday training wheels too...

i personally like round wheels over square wheels, so i would advise you get some round wheels :)

Get out of my head.

You too Botto.

Nashbar has tubeless Ultegra on sale for $350. They kick Open Pros in the nads, stomp on them while they are down, then laugh as they walk off with the OP's girlfriend. I've been riding these for a month now and it's a great all around wheel, their more expensive Dura siblings get very good reviews for durability.

They don't ride quite as nice as tubulars but they are better than tubed and have a lot of the qualities (no pinch flats, generally slower deflation if you pick up a nail or glass) that make tubulars attractive.

If you're looking at Boyd Wheels... get the Vitesse Alloy Clinchers. ~1520grams. Stiffy and pretty lightweight. I just started racing this year...

6th in my first Cat 5 crit with 40 riders on those wheels.

well Im sold.

well Im sold.

S & M slave auction?

you wish moneybags.

you wish moneybags.

Two words:

Economy size.

:lol:

And that can only come from a good coach. I speak from experience, b/c while I can 'hang' with the folks that end up in the podium I probably train very stupidly compared to them. The few times I ended in the podium in the past was b/c I either got a lucky break or attacked -being fitter or in better shape at that point in the race.

A good coach will teach you how to train and get you race-fit and mentally ready to do well. The motivation, self-esteem, e-wang (as it is referred to by some of folks in this forum) that comes with doing well at races is priceless. Worst thing you can do is get a pair of really nice wheels and get dropped by the peloton.

Of course, a good coach will most likely ask you to invest on a power meter, which in my opinion is more important than a nice pair of wheels. When and if you do, don't get the polar meter, far too finicky and prone to failure, and not all that accurate. Anyway, I went over what you asked, but perhaps I've helped you get a better perspective.

Wheels... I had my rear wheel checked out today by Rob from Psimet. It is true like the day when it was built by Rob three years ago and I never trued it since then. 190lbs with 6000 miles yearly riding on rough streets.
That is all.

I have begun assembling my parts to my new race bike. I am stuck on wheelsets. $3,000 is the cap on wheels and its narrowed down to zipp303 firecrest tubulars and Shimano c35 tubulars both 2012 models. I weight 67kg live in Florida and want to pick the one of these that is gonna be great all around. Which one would you guys consider to be stiffer and more likely to last awhile? I like the zipps but Im worried about durability issues. I also Like the shimano c35 but worry about the 35mm depth. is there really that much aero advantage disadvantage on these compared to each other?

you live in florida just get a set of 1080s and go race ur bike :P

I'd get something taller. $3k? You can buy 3 wheels, maybe 4, depending on how you do it.

Do you do mainly crits with a bazillion turns in 30 mph winds? If so then I'd get one of the wheels you list. Personally I wouldn't buy those wheels (except a front 303 to complement a tall front and a tall rear wheel). I'd get a much taller wheelset. If your events tend to be strung out single file hammerfests then that 1080 suggestion actually makes sense.

If you do steady type racing (vs jumpy crits) there's actually an argument for heavier wheels, coming from a racer/rider/engineer I respect. He's been experimenting with significantly heavier wheels and has evidence (objective and subjective) that it's easier than when he rides on lighter wheels.

He notes that a jumpy type ride favors lighter wheels.

I can tell ya I raved the other night on my 32h training wheels with powertap and they were fine. At 2200g or so they are a little on the heavy side, kinda like me :) but they did the job. $3000? Damn I could build a new bike for that. My buddy just paid 1700 for 2011 Zipp 606 Firecrest with tires.

Racing almost weekly. I tend to stick to the hillier road races in Florida where I do my best riding. I do race a lot of jumpy criteriums though. I do like wheels that spin up easy. So you say ride a deep wheel. Well I had a set of 58 tubulars american classics and found that 50% of the races I had to pull out or not use them as the wind made it so extremely dangerous I was afraid for my life. I don't want to have to worry about that everytime I get to the start line. Now would a zipp 303front 404rear male more sense or will the 404 not spin up so great? I seen the 303/303 as a great aero wheel whic zipp claims is on a few watts different from the 404 or go to the shimano 35 tubulars which are stiff and more of a uphill wheel that will spin up nicely in Crits although the 303 setup should do the same

oh u silly bike racers, worry about your equipment this much!

Do I want to spend that much on a set of wheels? No! I found plenty of places online selling the shimano c35s for 1800 but if I rolled up to my local bike shop with those wheels and didn't purchase them there for 2500 I wouldn't hear the end of it. The problem with trying to support your local LBS, find excellent deals but get the black sheep treatment for buying them somewhere else.

A post for another time "do you support your local LBS even when there are great deals on equipment online or do you take those deals? And if you take those deals what kind of flack would you hear for your LBS?

Hey OP. Any of the wheels you listed in your post are good ones and worth checking out. If you have a limited budget for cycling gear (this is my perpetual situation), your priorities should be durability and versatility, not speed.

What everyone else is saying, that all of the other priorities should be seen to before wheels, is dead on. A properly-fitted bike and shoes have done more for me than anything else ever has.

Hey OP. Any of the wheels you listed in your post are good ones and worth checking out. If you have a limited budget for cycling gear (this is my perpetual situation), your priorities should be durability and versatility, not speed.

What everyone else is saying, that all of the other priorities should be seen to before wheels, is dead on. A properly-fitted bike and shoes have done more for me than anything else ever has.
Apparently not.

You could buy 4 pairs of used wheels that will cover all conditions.

Racing almost weekly. I tend to stick to the hillier road races in Florida where I do my best riding. I do race a lot of jumpy criteriums though. I do like wheels that spin up easy. So you say ride a deep wheel. Well I had a set of 58 tubulars american classics and found that 50% of the races I had to pull out or not use them as the wind made it so extremely dangerous I was afraid for my life. I don't want to have to worry about that everytime I get to the start line. Now would a zipp 303front 404rear male more sense or will the 404 not spin up so great? I seen the 303/303 as a great aero wheel whic zipp claims is on a few watts different from the 404 or go to the shimano 35 tubulars which are stiff and more of a uphill wheel that will spin up nicely in Crits although the 303 setup should do the same

I see a few things here:
1. Crosswind issue
2. Weight
3. Aero benefit

I don't know the AC58 profile first hand but my teammate uses a similar (clincher) rim in training and races. He uses a DV46 tubular in races. I think both are affected by crosswinds more than a rounded type rim profile (Firecrest, Stinger, Enve, ?). I know I use my Stinger6 rims in pretty gusty conditions, including wind blowing out from behind a stadium. In a cross tailwind a taller rim becomes really, really fast. I don't have proof but I move up regularly in tailwind conditions quickly and decisively without going bananas regarding power.

Weight - any rim will be 450-550g or more. 1500g for a pair will be reasonably light, 1200g very light.

Aero - in general, for a given rim type (narrow, wide, etc), taller is better.

If you really have $3k I'd get an ENVE trio of wheels - a front 45 or so, a front 70?, and a rear 70-85. I think you can do that for $3k. If you want to go cheaper you can get some complimentary rims to your ACs - maybe a "non-aero" front (wheel weight should be 500g total), an 80-100 rear (900-1000g), and if you sell off your AC58s, buy a 60-80 front. Figure you can do that for about $1k and spend the rest on a Quarq or a used SRM. Oh and you'll have to buy some more tubulars.

I like thinking about equipment. I don't necessarily buy stuff but I think about it. I know it's a low % of the overall equation but it's still fun. Tall wheels which are reasonably aero are one of the more significant things you can get to immediately affect your top end. It's faster at 30 mph, 40 mph, especially with a cross tailwind. They transfer from bike to bike quickly and they generally last a long time. It won't allow me to time trial like a Cat 1 but it may help me stay on their wheel for a minute or three.

I don't think much about lower return stuff like cranks or hubs.

After extrapolating the significance of a flat aero profile top of the bar I'll think about that a bit, ditto a super skinny aero seat post. My bike is so short that aero or no aero doesn't make much difference in most of that stuff.

FWIW, Firecrest 303's are very wide, I was going to get 303's front & rear, and it didn't fit in my frame, so I went with a 303/404 combo. Try before you buy.