I hope you're ot saying that 295 million people in the US are all inskilled laborers.
There have been cases of UAW janitors making 6 figures...LOL.
Honestly, in this day and age a company will go broke paying someone 70 grand plus top of the line benefits to run screws into a car all day long.
It's not cold, it's part of the self sufficient attitude of some Americans.
Sure retirement is owed to you if you have earned it. If someone does unskilled labor for 5 years, that a robot can do and gets displaced, the company is not obligated to pay them just for existing.
Unskilled labor, it's not where the govt or society should be encouraging people to languish.
It's just wasteful to all. We've known for years that we may have to change careers several times over our lifetime and adapt. Life is cold, man.

EDIT: I am all for spending money to retrain people, and get them skilled.What do you do that a (re)trained monkey couldn't do? Automobiles are built by people, not companies. If they cant afford 70 grand for the laborer who actually builds the product, how is it they can pay execs 7 or 8 million?

What do you do that a (re)trained monkey couldn't do? Automobiles are built by people, not companies. If they cant afford 70 grand for the laborer who actually builds the product, how is it they can pay execs 7 or 8 million?

I do solid modelling on a Unigraphics CAD station.
It wouldn't pay well if "just anyone" could do it, trust me.
It's an actual creation process, not some brain dead job on an assembly line.

Like who?

This is where the discussion usually leads, to which I reply "nonsense". We all have choices and complete control over our income and expenses. I can not think of one instances where a person did not have the choice to find a better paying job, increase their education, or save money.Who the hell is going to be building cars if everyone "chooses" to do something else? Hello...there is a real world out here somewhere.

Who the hell is going to be building cars if everyone "chooses" to do something else? Hello...there is a real world out here somewhere.

I have no clue what you are talking about, do you? We were talking about poverty levels and having the choice to leave low paying jobs for better ones.

I do solid modelling on a Unigraphics CAD station.
It wouldn't pay well if "just anyone" could do it, trust me.
It's an actual creation process, not some brain dead job on an assembly line.
And I bet if it suits management, they could easily train some engineer in India to do your job for 1/5 of your wages, and you'd just be SOL.

(And when they find out just how much time you waste on the internet when you're supposed to be working, they just might start the interview process... ;) )

And I bet if it suits management, they could easily train some engineer in India to do your job for 1/5 of your wages, and you'd just be SOL.

(And when they find out just how much time you waste on the internet when you're supposed to be working, they just might start the interview process... ;) )

I doubt it randya. I do all the hard projects here, I'm the Senior Designer. I have 3 people under me.
As long as my work is not late I can do whatever I want as long as I'm at my desk.
They know exactly how much time I'm on the internet.
Where are you? At home?
If they train someone else to do my job, I could care less. My house is about paid off, I have no debt.
I'll find another job or career with no whining involved.
You think someone in India with a degree and no experience can do this?
Be my guest. Then when it all unravels they can bring the 60 dollar per hour contractors back in.

I have 3 people under me.
Oh, lower mid-management. That explains a lot. Thanks!

Oh, lower mid-management. That explains a lot. Thanks!

Nope, I'm NOT a manager, not by a long shot. I actually create things and am responsible for tooling worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. I give direction to other designers when I need to.
Where were you posting from again? A job, or your mom's basement?
I'm hoping for national health care so all you guys can pay for my bennies when I go contract for 60+ an hour again plus per diem...I miss those days.

I actually...am responsibilty for...
Glad to see you had to get a passing grade in grammar and spelling to get that job! I always figured American cars sucked so bad because the only people getting hired by the industry were 'C' students. Thanks for confirming that for me. No wonder you usually stick to copy and paste...

Glad to see you had to get a passing grade in grammar and spelling to get that job! I always figured American cars sucked so bad because the only people getting hired by the industry were 'C' students. Thanks for confirming that for me. No wonder you usually stick to copy and paste...


Is that the best you could come up with? A spelling snipe? I fixed it right after I posted it.
Do you have a job randya? By the way, half my time is spent designing Toyota parts....wrong again.

Do you have a job randya?
No, I'm posting from a cardboard box under the bridge. :rolleyes:

No, I'm posting from a cardboard box under the bridge. :rolleyes:

OK, what do you do, then?

Chill dudes, we all work hard...................










































............................NOT! BWAAHAHAHAAH

OK, what do you do, then?
Water resource protection - I help keep the water safe to drink.

...And I want to apologize to FXJohn for giving him such a hard time here. We had a friendly off-line chat and I agreed to tone it down just a wee bit. ;)

After all, IMO, the US bicycling community needs a lot more solidarity and a lot less internal bickering...so maybe someday we'll see VC proponents agreeing that well-designed bike lanes and separated paths really do make sense in some situations, and the roadies and the CMers will all sit down and have a beer together, and so forth... :)

...And I want to apologize to FXJohn for giving him such a hard time here. We had a friendly off-line chat and I agreed to tone it down just a wee bit. ;)

After all, IMO, the US bicycling community needs a lot more solidarity and a lot less internal bickering...so maybe someday we'll see VC proponents agreeing that well-designed bike lanes and separated paths really do make sense in some situations, and the roadies and the CMers will all sit down and have a beer together, and so forth... :)


Yeah, a lot of things get lost in internet communication such as sarcasm and so on.
I'd like to think 99% or so of the the people on the board have more in common with each other than most people they are around in everyday life.

Yeah, a lot of things get lost in internet communication such as sarcasm and so on.
I'd like to think 99% or so of the the people on the board have more in common with each other than most people they are around in everyday life.


That's the reason we're here in the first place, isn't it? Despite my dogged efforts I can't seem to encourage many of my friends to ride bikes and I can see their eyes glaze over when I start to go on about rides, equip, etc. Without these forums it would be quite a lonely existence for this cyclist. :)

We still need foreign oil or the price of ours will go through the roof. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think close to 40% of our oil comes from overseas.

We do not receive any US oil here at Hovensa. (I see youre from New Jersey so you are familiar with Hess.) The numbers average out like this at Hovensa 60% of our crude comes from Venezuela, ~15% comes from other South or Central American countries, another ~20% from the North Sea, The remainder is usually od lots. Mostly from Africa.

I say employers who hire illegals...lock em up!! It's their responsibilty to know who they're paying.

Not so easy to do as say. I have a friend (really! not me!) who has started a small business, and who employs about a dozen folks. He is pretty sure most of them are illegals but they all have documents that appear valid on the face of it, and he is no document expert.

And he is also aware that asking for more evidence than the law requires of him could very well entail legal consequences if he is wrong/asks the wrong person.

So he shrugs and says "they have the papers, the rest is not my job". And feels guilty about it.

Yeah, a lot of things get lost in internet communication such as sarcasm and so on.
I'd like to think 99% or so of the the people on the board have more in common with each other than most people they are around in everyday life.

Yay! Thanks for that! Thanks for communicating! Uplifting to see some of the rancor diminish.