Folding Bikes - swift folders

james, have you thought about an adjustable stem mounted at the top of the stempost, angled down? I worry about exposed vertical tubing.

As soon as my neck and back agree on the ideal stem height, I'll cut-down the stem tube.

The Birdy is a great folder. It provides the best performance to size ratio out there and rides more like a big bike than most (a mountain bike, actually). The price is high, but the bike is stellar. And it folds quickly. I don't own one simply because I'm not rich and wanted something more along the lines of a road bike. But boy did I love taking it for a spin or three.

I had a birdy red for about 5 weeks. I got it quite cheap at ebay and rode it for some time. It is nice to ride in mountainbike-terrain due to the excellent suspension, but not really good for the road or daily urban rides.
folding is a pain! It is so un-smooth and what is left is still ca. 78 x 56 x 28cm. (The Swift is reportet to make 81 x 55 x 28 cm, that is not much of a difference.)
When folding the chain claws the frame and gets everything dirty. And if you are unprecise with the position of the pedals, you will fold and fold and fold....

After a 15km road-ride, my petite female travel-mate was waiting with her simple steel racingbike right behind the goal-line, her caipirinha almost finished... I ride 20-30km daily, she weekly...
bye bye birdy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caipirinha

It would be better if Birdies didn't fold, then people wouldn't buy them as folders.
---Homer

> On the aluminum frames, 451s will fit both front and
> rear, but you need an
> extremely long-reach rear caliper- I can't find a
> releable source, but you might
> have better luck. Front will just barely work with
> a 68mm Shimano, so you
> can only do a brakeless rear/fixed 451 with
> off-the-shelf components.
>
> The new steel one will work with 68mm calipers front
> and rear.
>

p.s. I measured the rear reach on my alu swift. A 68mm caliper should work.[/QUOTE]


question on the break-thing:
Will a longer caliper break work on a (old) steel-fork together with a 451-rim?
What will the size of the calipers need to be? (min-max)
Thanks for getting out your vernier calipers.

I have tried various ways to carry a drinks bottle on my Swift and have settled on the Rixen/Kaul Micro Bottle Bag. This little item attaches to the saddle rails via a quick release bracket and carries a bottle up to .75 litres. There is also a small pocket beneath the bottle large enough to store a spare inner tube, repair outfit and mini-tool. It's very sleek and keeps the bottle secure. I use a Swiss Sigg alloy bottle as it has a "lid" which protects the mouthpiece from debris thrown up by the back wheel.

I have tried various ways to carry a drinks bottle on my Swift and have settled on the Rixen/Kaul Micro Bottle Bag....
That looks ok, although I'd prefer to use that for extra water rather than my sole water supply. With 20" wheels, I'd rather not have to worry about putting a bottle away in a spot where I can't see it.

FWIW I prefer to put a water cage on the inside of the handlepost, preferably the Minoura or a Twofish. It's very convenient.

That looks ok, although I'd prefer to use that for extra water rather than my sole water supply. With 20" wheels, I'd rather not have to worry about putting a bottle away in a spot where I can't see it.

FWIW I prefer to put a water cage on the inside of the handlepost, preferably the Minoura or a Twofish. It's very convenient.

The bag has a draw chord which constricts the neck of a .75L bottle and holds it fast. Smaller bottles slip inside the bag completely and the draw chord covers them. They cannot fall out. I tried the water bottle on the inside of the handlepost but thought it spoiled the look of the Swift. I like the clean lines of the bike and prefer to keep the space between the seat post and the 'bar riser clear. Also putting the bottle cage on the inside of the post means that the cage will lean the wrong way with the possibility of the bottle bouncing out of the cage. On a conventional bike the bottle cage leans back on the frame and with most cages having a lower front than back, putting the cage on the rear of the 'bar riser (facing the rider) means that there is less material holding the bottle in place. I agree that putting the cage on the handlepost is more convenient but as I never drink while actually moving, placing the bottle behind the seat is of little consequence.

There was a post about three months ago refering to a rumored new steel frame Swift that was to come out in about three months; which would be about now. Has anyone heard any buzz about that?

Speedo

There was a post about three months ago refering to a rumored new steel frame Swift that was to come out in about three months; which would be about now. Has anyone heard any buzz about that?

Speedo

Peter sent me pics of the new steel frame (impressive indeed!). I have to ask him if it is ok to post them here. The new frame is a little different around the folding hinge. It now fits into samsonite oyster suitcase (smaller than flite). Availability is around springtime.

Peter sent me pics of the new steel frame (impressive indeed!)...

Thanks. Is there any hope that one could mount a front derailleur on the new frame?

It's steel, so you can always have a braize on added to handle a front derailler,
Juan

The seattube is a standard diameter on steel Swifts (1" IIRC... I'm on a business trip and can't walk into the shop to measure), so a FD clamp works fine.

I am not affiliated with swift or xootr in any way. I think these are production ready prototypes. The new frame is intended for use with 406 and 451 rims.

Hrm.... I can see why that might pack better, although aesthetically it's not quite as pleasing.

Is there a wheel size larger than 20" in one of the pics?

Kudos to commander_taco and to Peter for putting pics out. :)

I've been curious for some time what the new bikes would look like.

1. Will the new frame type be available as both steel Swift and aluminum Xootr?

2. Is the new frame designed to compliment or replace existing models?

I am not affiliated with swift or xootr in any way. I think these are production ready prototypes. The new frame is intended for use with 406 and 451 rims.
Oh yeah...now that's what I call bike pR0n!

I'm seeing 3 different wheel sizes: 406, 451, and, what I'm guessing is 520 (the last pic...look at the gearing compared to the other bikes).

It looks like the seat tube angle has been relaxed quite a bit to compensate for the pushed-foward pivot joint/shorter top tube.

Nice track drops.

I don't understand how the fold works on this new model--it looks like the seat tube no longer goes down to the bottom bracket. What locks the bike open?

Oh yeah...now that's what I call bike pR0n!

I'm seeing 3 different wheel sizes: 406, 451, and, what I'm guessing is 520 (the last pic...look at the gearing compared to the other bikes).

It looks like the seat tube angle has been relaxed quite a bit to compensate for the pushed-foward pivot joint/shorter top tube.

Nice track drops.

yep, there are 3 wheel sizes: 406, 451 and 501 (wheelchair 22inch and bmx 24inch). Peter tried out 501's for track racing since minimum wheel dia allowed is 22 inch. Here is what he said - <sic> "Just be sure to be clear- the 501s were a nobel experiment, and it's not practical to replicate for production, given parts availability. The new frame is intended for use with 406 and 451 rims."
I think there is limited tire choice for 501 (like 2 or 3 tires, from wheelchair stores).

I thought the seattube looked funky, but it has grown on me. The 2 tubes that connect hinge to bottom bracket appear veritcal almost.

I don't understand how the fold works on this new model--it looks like the seat tube no longer goes down to the bottom bracket. What locks the bike open?

there is a short seat tube the extends below top tube and it has quick release clamp at the top, just like current versions.

That first picture with the 451's, does that bike have regular road calipers. no more v brakes.
Which one of the pictures do you think represents what the production version will look like?
Personally I like the look of these and I'm glad I didn't pick up a xootr in the meantime. Now I just gotta save my pennies!!

I didn't see any pictures of it folded! That's the most important feature for me. The rear triangle looks a little bit different, and it looks like it may swing a little further "in" for a slightly smaller fold.

I'm going to throw up a couple of my fixed xootr later tonight (451 rims). Thanks commander_taco for the inspiration!:)

Here are a few links to the xootr in its current state.

Warning dial up users…pictures are very large

http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5828.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5832.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5833.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5815.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5812.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5837.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5818.JPG

Feel free to check out all the images in the folder.


451 R390 Alex front wheel. The rear rims is laced to a fixed/fixed high flange dimension hub. Same spokes were reused that came with the wheel.

Chain is a cheap-0 ten dollar one.

Front chain ring is 54 tooth Ebay find.

Rear is 15 and 13 (I use the 15 for what I believe is about 68 gear inches) Please correct me if I’m wrong

Tires are 110psi comet primo Kevlar 20 – 1 1/8

Front brake is a lbs special. The front reads: DIA-COMPE PS-E.

I’m using these cheap half toe clip things now. I ride in nyc every day to work and “bailing” is important so I’m not sure about straps yet.

The bike gets about 100 miles a week, most of it around central park, the rest back and forth to work (only about a mile each way). I’ve completed the nyc century on this bike (when it had gears), and recently when half way in a NJ century after it was “fixed”.

I’m still experimenting with handle bar types. Some of the pictures are with the flat bar, now I have a “bull horn” type bar which I like much more.

Out of my 4 folders the xootr is the one I ride the most. The others include a Dahon Jack, Downtube FS VIII, and a Dahon mariner. The stiffness in the frame and the “feels like a full size bike” keeps me grabbing for it every time.

This bike is my first fixed gear and I love it. The control and strength I’ve gained in just a few months is amazing.

The upgrades to come are a TI seat post, different handle bars, better pedals, crank, and bottom bracket. Once I get familiar with the setup I like I would like to replace just about every part on the bike with the best available…and that I can afford. :D

I didn't see any pictures of it folded! That's the most important feature for me. The rear triangle looks a little bit different, and it looks like it may swing a little further "in" for a slightly smaller fold.

I'm going to throw up a couple of my fixed xootr later tonight (451 rims). Thanks commander_taco for the inspiration!:)

Suitcase pic has the frame folded ;) I know it is not at all clear. Here is my understanding - since the seattube has a slightly acute angle, top tube ends up being an inch or so shorter, which makes all the difference.

BTW, nice xootr!

That first picture with the 451's, does that bike have regular road calipers. no more v brakes.
Which one of the pictures do you think represents what the production version will look like?
Personally I like the look of these and I'm glad I didn't pick up a xootr in the meantime. Now I just gotta save my pennies!!

I have no idea what the brake setup is going to be. Feel free to ask Peter Reich (he maybe slow to respond, but he will). Also, Peter mentioned that he has new stock of long reach caliper brakes for xootr swift if you guys want to run 451 rims on xootr. I have 451 rims (pics are a few pages back) and I love em.

Front chain ring is 54 tooth Ebay find.

Rear is 15 and 13 (I use the 15 for what I believe is about 68 gear inches) Please correct me if I’m wrong


With 451s and 1 1/8 tires 54/15 will give you about 72 gear inches.

Nice bike.

Can you really find a Ti seatpost that is long enough and has the right diameter?

Here are a few links to the xootr in its current state.

Warning dial up users…pictures are very large

http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5828.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5832.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5833.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5815.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5812.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5837.JPG
http://bridgeofwalls.net/foldingbikes/xootr/IMG_5818.JPG

Feel free to check out all the images in the folder.


451 R390 Alex front wheel. The rear rims is laced to a fixed/fixed high flange dimension hub. Same spokes were reused that came with the wheel.

Chain is a cheap-0 ten dollar one.

Front chain ring is 54 tooth Ebay find.

Rear is 15 and 13 (I use the 15 for what I believe is about 68 gear inches) Please correct me if I’m wrong

Tires are 110psi comet primo Kevlar 20 – 1 1/8

Front brake is a lbs special. The front reads: DIA-COMPE PS-E.

I’m using these cheap half toe clip things now. I ride in nyc every day to work and “bailing” is important so I’m not sure about straps yet.

The bike gets about 100 miles a week, most of it around central park, the rest back and forth to work (only about a mile each way). I’ve completed the nyc century on this bike (when it had gears), and recently when half way in a NJ century after it was “fixed”.

I’m still experimenting with handle bar types. Some of the pictures are with the flat bar, now I have a “bull horn” type bar which I like much more.

Out of my 4 folders the xootr is the one I ride the most. The others include a Dahon Jack, Downtube FS VIII, and a Dahon mariner. The stiffness in the frame and the “feels like a full size bike” keeps me grabbing for it every time.

This bike is my first fixed gear and I love it. The control and strength I’ve gained in just a few months is amazing.

The upgrades to come are a TI seat post, different handle bars, better pedals, crank, and bottom bracket. Once I get familiar with the setup I like I would like to replace just about every part on the bike with the best available…and that I can afford. :D

Awesome Swift fixie. The lacing on those Alex rims is wicked. Did you install a longer axle and respace the Dimension hub (120mm, right?). What's your chainline? Looks really good with the bullhorns and in-line brake lever.

I actually have a custom fixed rear-wheel for my Xootr coming in on Monday. Velocity 406 V-rim laced to a 32H Surly New 130mm road fixed/free hub (going to throw-in a couple of 1mm spacers on each end), Surly 14T cog+lockring. I chose the 130mm road hub over the 120mm track hub because the 47mm chainline of the 130 will let me run my chainring mounted to the outside of the crank spider (107 bb). Looks cleaner that way. ;)

With 451s and 1 1/8 tires 54/15 will give you about 72 gear inches.

Nice bike.

Can you really find a Ti seatpost that is long enough and has the right diameter?

I think I remember reading that you can get this directly from swiftfolder.com. I'm not sure where I read it, but I seem to remember a pricetag of about $90.

I'm preparing to take the plunge and order a xootr swift. Has anyone tried cantilever brakes? I have a set in the shed and want to run drop bars, however I'm concerned about heel clearance on the rear.

Thanks in advance

Steve

V-brake cantis are stock on the Xootr Swift.
http://www.xootr.com/xootr/swift/specifications.shtml

The road calipers on the bike shown in this thread are aftermarket. You can get Swifts built with road calipers from Peter (as distinct from Xootr). If you mean touring style centerpull cantis, you could mount cablehangers on the seattube and steerer tube, but why would anyone want centerpull cantis?

Is there an appreciable difference or advantage between cantilevered and V-brakes for a Swift / 20" folder, by the way?

V-brakes provide significantly more braking force than centerpull cantis. Older, "cross wire" centerpulls also created endos and faceplants when the rear brake cable failed and the cross-wire dropped into the lugs of the rear tire. The later Y-wire solved that problem... but c-ps still have about half, IIRC, the braking force of V-brakes.

V-brake cantis are stock on the Xootr Swift.
http://www.xootr.com/xootr/swift/specifications.shtml

The road calipers on the bike shown in this thread are aftermarket. You can get Swifts built with road calipers from Peter (as distinct from Xootr). If you mean touring style centerpull cantis, you could mount cablehangers on the seattube and steerer tube, but why would anyone want centerpull cantis?

Presumably if one has road brifters you would need the cantilevers to maintain clearance for big tires and fenders.

Presumably if one has road brifters you would need the cantilevers to maintain clearance for big tires and fenders.

My situation exactly. I want to avoid buying travel agents or other such devices for the V-brakes hence my question on clearance.

I can live with the drawbacks of cantilevers (as I have for many years).

Cheers

Steve

This is a link to the new long-arm caliper breaks, that will fit on the swift with 451 wheels.

http://www.tektro.com/02products/08r365r356.php

I have just ordered a plain swift-frame from RAB and will do some wheel-building the next days.
Now I wonder about: what is the difference in the handling of the bike with 406 and 451 wheels?
somewhere in the web I found the following comment:
"20" tires come in 2 flavors. The 451 size is a taller and skinnier version of the BMX (406) size.
Tires and rims are not interchangeable. The 451 size is usually lighter and faster. The wider BMX size is more designed for touring and commuting."
"lighter and faster" is of course exactly what I have in mind and I got a little turned off by the term "touring and commuting". I have my plain gipiemme track bike hubs here, so I still have the choice to pick the size of the rims...
I like the look of the dahon hammerhead (http://www.bikesandtrailers.com/folding-bikes/images/dahon/hammerhead_z.jpg) that uses 406 wheels. Smaller wheels will also make a smaller fold, right?
I ride alot and would like to avoid sluggish handling. Smaller wheels result in a higher rolling resistance, but my hubs are good track-quality and I hope they will give me some support in that issue.
I would really appreciate some ideas on the topic. Maybe someone tried out the two different rides and will give a little outline on the handling...
Thanks
Z.

Maybe someone tried out the two different rides and will give a little outline on the handling...
Thanks
Z.

I have no useful technical information to provide, but the 451s are definitely cooler looking! :)

My Swift fixed-gear conversion project. The fixed rear wheel is custom built: Velocity 32H Aero Heat V-rim, 14ga DT Spokes, Surly New fixed/free road hub (130mm OLD/47mm chainline), Surly 14T 3/32" track cog w/lockring. The bullhorns are home-brew chop-n-flop from my parts bin. ;)

Nice clean looking bike James, but is there a particular reason why you have the seat post q/rs facing backwards and not flush with the frame? Just curious.

Nice clean looking bike James, but is there a particular reason why you have the seat post q/rs facing backwards and not flush with the frame? Just curious.
Haven't really thought about it. It's just easier to close the QR in that position, I guess.

Feeling late to the party, but here's yet another fixed silver Swift. Specs: Stock crank, brakes, brake levers, and seatpost; homebuilt wheels with IRO small flange 32h hubs, Sun CR-18 406 rims, Sapim 15 g spokes, Schwalble Stelvio 20 x 1.125" folding tires, Dura Ace 14t 3/32" cog (paired w/ the stock 52 ring), Speedplay Frog pedals, Nitto Dove bar (flipped), cheepo 120mm 10 degree rise stem, Terry Zero Y saddle, Minoura cage holder w/ Blackburn Switchback, UN73 bottom bracket, and sealed bearing Shimano headset. I think that's it. Weighs in at 19.5 lbs on my bathroom scale.

I love the bike. This is my third fixed gear, but my first folder, and first time since childhood riding anything smaller than 26" hoops. I too am amazed at how similar the ride is to a full sized bike. The steering is quick, but not tricky. I have no problem riding no hands. This weekend I took it on the first 50 mile leg of the Hilly Hundred here in Indiana. The bike turned a few heads, and did great.

Pics:

http://www.bloomington.in.us/~cjackson/Fixed_Swift02.JPG
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~cjackson/Fixed_Swift03.JPG

Feeling late to the party, but here's yet another fixed silver Swift. Specs: Stock crank, brakes, brake levers, and seatpost; homebuilt wheels with IRO small flange 32h hubs, Sun CR-18 406 rims, Sapim 15 g spokes, Schwalble Stelvio 20 x 1.125" folding tires, Dura Ace 14t 3/32" cog (paired w/ the stock 52 ring), Speedplay Frog pedals, Nitto Dove bar (flipped), cheepo 120mm 10 degree rise stem, Terry Zero Y saddle, Minoura cage holder w/ Blackburn Switchback, UN73 bottom bracket, and sealed bearing Shimano headset. I think that's it. Weighs in at 19.5 lbs on my bathroom scale.

I love the bike. This is my third fixed gear, but my first folder, and first time since childhood riding anything smaller than 26" hoops. I too am amazed at how similar the ride is to a full sized bike. The steering is quick, but not tricky. I have no problem riding no hands. This weekend I took it on the first 50 mile leg of the Hilly Hundred here in Indiana. The bike turned a few heads, and did great.

Pics:

http://www.bloomington.in.us/~cjackson/Fixed_Swift02.JPG
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~cjackson/Fixed_Swift03.JPG

Very nice!!! :)
It's getting to look like the Swift is THE choice for fixed-gear folding.

Very nice!!! :)
It's getting to look like the Swift is THE choice for fixed-gear folding.

Thanks in large part to you! I neglected to add my appreciation of your advocacy of this frame, without which I probably wouldn't have taken much interest in the Swift. But your favorable reviews and real world testing pushed me over the edge, and I'm glad.

Thanks James and everyone else who has contributed to this thread.

Jack

Nice work Jack J.

I have still yet to see another rider on a fixed folder...

Thanks in large part to you! I neglected to add my appreciation of your advocacy of this frame, without which I probably wouldn't have taken much interest in the Swift. But your favorable reviews and real world testing pushed me over the edge, and I'm glad.

Thanks James and everyone else who has contributed to this thread.

Jack
Glad to hear.
By the way, you said you built those wheels yourself?
Also, you might want to post your pics on the Singlespeed & Fixed Gear forum under the "Your Fixed Gear/SS Photos!" thread. There's a growing appreciation for fixed folders there. ;)

Nice work Jack J.

I have still yet to see another rider on a fixed folder...

Sunday evening I took my newly fixed-Swift out for a test ride on the waterfront in San Francisco when no more than 10 minutes out on the road, I spotted another silver fixed-Swift. The guy said he had his bike custom built by Peter...complete with a really nice set of Velocity Razor rims with a 14/15 flip-flop fixed rear wheel. He also mentioned that there is now a Northern California distributor for Swift / Xootr Swift bikes and parts. Nice.

good morning all. I am sure its posted in here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Can someone tell me the seat tube diameter of the swift. I know there is a difference between the aluminum and steel, so if you state the size, please note if its for the steel or aluminum frame. Thanks.

good morning all. I am sure its posted in here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Can someone tell me the seat tube diameter of the swift. I know there is a difference between the aluminum and steel, so if you state the size, please note if its for the steel or aluminum frame. Thanks.

Aluminum Frame: 34 mm (pages 14-15 on this thread)

By the way, you said you built those wheels yourself?


Yep, been building all my own wheels for a decade or so. This one was a little tricky in spec'ing parts. Ideally I would have liked to use considerable fewer spokes (maybe 24 in front, 28 rear), but given a limited budget, I didn't want to spring for Velocity rims and top shelf hubs. I'd never used Sun anything before, but I'm pretty pleased with the CR18's, especially considering that they were only $22 ea. purchased through my LBS. I run Formula large flange hubs on one of my other fixed gears--they're a great value, but for the smaller wheels I felt small flange was in order. The IRO's (same as Forumlas) are fine. They only come in fixed/free, whereas I'd prefer fixed/fixed, but since I run two brakes I can get by w/o a lockring. Besides which I don't flip the wheel much.

Finding the short spokes was more of a problem than I anticipated. Icycles was closed for inventory when I tried to order, and some other places were way too pricey. I ended up getting them custom cut from J. (I think that's what he goes by) of Gaerlan Custom Cycles. He was great to deal with, super fast on delivery, and although I'd never used Sapim spokes before, I'm very happy w/ 'em. The price was right, too.

I intend to build another rear wheel around an internal hub, probably the Nexus 8sp. That'll mean I can share the bike w/ my wife, who's not too intrigued by the fixed gear. And it'll give me a chance to try the Internal hub experience. I love fixed for it's own sake, but also because I dislike derailleurs.

Jack

Yep, been building all my own wheels for a decade or so. This one was a little tricky in spec'ing parts. Ideally I would have liked to use considerable fewer spokes (maybe 24 in front, 28 rear), but given a limited budget, I didn't want to spring for Velocity rims and top shelf hubs. I'd never used Sun anything before, but I'm pretty pleased with the CR18's, especially considering that they were only $22 ea. purchased through my LBS. I run Formula large flange hubs on one of my other fixed gears--they're a great value, but for the smaller wheels I felt small flange was in order. The IRO's (same as Forumlas) are fine. They only come in fixed/free, whereas I'd prefer fixed/fixed, but since I run two brakes I can get by w/o a lockring. Besides which I don't flip the wheel much.

Finding the short spokes was more of a problem than I anticipated. Icycles was closed for inventory when I tried to order, and some other places were way too pricey. I ended up getting them custom cut from J. (I think that's what he goes by) of Gaerlan Custom Cycles. He was great to deal with, super fast on delivery, and although I'd never used Sapim spokes before, I'm very happy w/ 'em. The price was right, too.

I intend to build another rear wheel around an internal hub, probably the Nexus 8sp. That'll mean I can share the bike w/ my wife, who's not too intrigued by the fixed gear. And it'll give me a chance to try the Internal hub experience. I love fixed for it's own sake, but also because I dislike derailleurs.

Jack

Hey, that's really great you can build your own wheels. Have you thought about building a set of 451 wheels?

I got my steel framed bike from Peter as well. I never read anyone getting their Swift folder from Peter's former partner Jan who works out of Eugene OR. I believe Jan only sells steel framed Swifts.