Folding Bikes - swift folders

I've got a 2006 Xootr purchased from Peter. Like James said, it has 135 mm spacing. On Peter's suggestion, I'm using the stock crank/chainring on a Shimano 107mm bottom bracket, and the chainline is excellent using an IRO small flange rear hub. I had to add several spacers to the hub for it to fit, and I'm thinking it was designed for 120 road spacing, but with a long axle for versatility. Off hand, I can't remember if my chainring is on the inside or outside of the spider. I'll try to remember to check when I'm home. Based on what James writes, I guess it should be on the inside.

Jack

James and Jack,
Thanks so much for your help!
Ill try to post pictures when I'm done.
Also, I've read this in this thread that removing the stock bottom bracket from the Xootr Swift was a real pain. Was that your experience? Any advice?
Thanks again,
Jonathan

James and Jack,
Thanks so much for your help!
Ill try to post pictures when I'm done.
Also, I've read this in this thread that removing the stock bottom bracket from the Xootr Swift was a real pain. Was that your experience? Any advice?
Thanks again,
Jonathan

It can be a pain in some situations. I've seen a report of Loctite used on the BB (http://commutebybike.com/2006/11/11/xootr-swift-bottom-bracket-seizure/). I had a seized BB on my Swift due to rust. I've had excellent results in removing the bottom bracket on my new Swift with the following method:

1.) Get a 25" breaker bar (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30395)
2.) Get a BB socket (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=99&subcategory=1228&brand=&sku=6741&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Crank%2FBottom%20Bracket%2FPedal)
-Remove the wheels and place the frame (drive-side facing you) on a carpeted floor against a wall for support. Put your left foot on the chainstay just behind the seat tube, hold the socket in place with your left hand and push down on the breaker bar with your right hand. Put your weight into it, if need be, and the BB should easily give-way. Now turn the frame around and repeat, this time pulling up on the breaker bar.

The key here is torque, and a 25" breaker bar provides plenty of it. ;)

This is the email I received from Xootr:

Sorry it's been a while getting back to you. We've been in a bit of a quandary over what to do. We really like the bike forum and communities like them. We'd really like to give you some kind of a discount, but can't figure out how to do it without upsetting our dealers and full paying customers.

One possibilty is for members of your group to buy factory seconds from us.
We offer these at a price of $599. Most people don't know about these and it is something we don't broadly advertise. But when we do get a second in, it usually sells quickly. Someone eventually calls looking for a deal and typically buys when we suggest a factory second. Customers are very happy with the seconds because of their quality. We are very picky about what goes out to customers and any kind of bike with a cosmetic imperfection becomes a second. Of course, all the seconds function perferctly. I'd say 90 percent of our seconds are paint chips or scratches. We just touch up the chip or scratch and sell it as a second.
Most customers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The full warranty still applys.

Unfortunately, we are currently out of seconds, but we expect a shipment of several hundred new bikes in the next 3 weeks and I'm sure we'll have a few (my guess is a dozen or so) that have a scratch or chip from the shipping process. If anyone from your group is interested in one of these future seconds, they could contact us and we could put them on a priority wait list for when they come in.

Let me know if this is helpful. It at least provides some kind of a discount and you don't have to go through the hassle of putting together a group purchase. Let me know if you have any questions.

Fair response from Xootr.

I've read this in this thread that removing the stock bottom bracket from the Xootr Swift was a real pain. Was that your experience? Any advice?


I pulled my crank and bottom bracket today, and the drive-side crank arm gave me fits. I eventually had to take a hammer to the extractor to force it to turn, destroying the blue rubberized handle in the process. Tight-tight-tight -- ridiculously so!

The bottom bracket was an absolute cinch on my frame, with just the standard adapter and a long breaker bar.

I pulled my crank and bottom bracket today, and the drive-side crank arm gave me fits. I eventually had to take a hammer to the extractor to force it to turn, destroying the blue rubberized handle in the process. Tight-tight-tight -- ridiculously so!

The bottom bracket was an absolute cinch on my frame, with just the standard adapter and a long breaker bar.

I forgot to add: put some anti-seize on the BB threads when you install your new BB to insure easy removal in the future. I picked-up a tube of Permatex anti-sieze from Kragen for around $4. It also comes in handy for use on your track cog and lockring. ;)

put some anti-seize on the BB threads when you install your new BB...

All right, James! You're my kind of mechanic! (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=130061)

http://www.booboodog.net/images/bb-install10.jpg

nice tutorial! (added it to my del.icio.us)

What headset does the aluminium swift frame use? (size, threadless...?)

What headset does the aluminium swift frame use? (size, threadless...?)

The headset is a weird slotted design used as part of the folding mechanism. The "riser" portion acts the same as a 1 1/8" threadless I believe. I have a standard 130mm threadless stem setup for my road-bar configuration.

http://www.zaftig.net/images/swift-headset.jpg

There is a bar inside the take-apart stem portion that mates with the slot and gives it a nice solid feel.

Hope this helps.

Looking at the pic of the headset itself, it looks like threaded headset's top nutset.

This would make sense to me, since it it was threadless, the fork would fall out upon taking off the stem parts... wouldn't it?

So, it looks like a threaded 1 1/8"headset?

So, it looks like a threaded 1 1/8"headset?

Hi Jur - yes it is. Peter Reich installed a Chris King Two Nut on my frameset; if you want something a lot cheaper, Peter uses Shimano's STX unit. Hope this helps.

OziSwift

Thanks. I may get a Ritchey headset - at least there is good quality (I think).

I hope to be receiving my Swift next week and join the ranks of Swift owners. I'm 6'4" and ordered the XL version, but plan to make a few customization (once it arrives.) I'd like to go with a drop bar rather than the flat bar, but was wondering what road brake levers would work best with V brake setup. Any suggestions? I have a spare set of bar end shifters and a 105 deraileur (short cage/double setup) that I plan to use for drivetrain. Never was a fan of twist grip setup, but that's just me.

Thanks!

I'd like to go with a drop bar rather than the flat bar, but was wondering what road brake levers would work best with V brake setup. Any suggestions?

Dia-Compe 287 V levers for linear brakes.

Speedo

With the 287, how do you end up shifting? That's the nice part about having a drop bar is STI.

I was wondering what road brake levers would work best with V brake setup. Any suggestions? I have a spare set of bar end shifters and a 105 deraileur (short cage/double setup) that I plan to use for drivetrain. Never was a fan of twist grip setup, but that's just me. Thanks!

Hi

You have three options for using road brake levers with V brakes
(1) Diacompe (or Diatech) 287V brake levers.
(2) Use a Travel Agent.
(3) Use Tektro mini V brakes.

See my posts on page 34 - # 831 and #839 - amd you can check out the specs of my Swift on p33, post #805. The bar end shifter works well on with a short cage Ultegra rear derailleur although there is a post here somewhere about the short cage fouling the drop out on the 11T cog. I don't have that problem.

OziSwift

I hope to be receiving my Swift next week and join the ranks of Swift owners. I'm 6'4" and ordered the XL version, but plan to make a few customization (once it arrives.) I'd like to go with a drop bar rather than the flat bar, but was wondering what road brake levers would work best with V brake setup. Any suggestions? I have a spare set of bar end shifters and a 105 deraileur (short cage/double setup) that I plan to use for drivetrain. Never was a fan of twist grip setup, but that's just me.

Thanks!
+1 Speedo. I've run the 287's with v brakes and On-one Midge bars on two bikes. I tried Travel agents, but was unimpressed. I haven't worked through the shifting options, as I ride a lot of single-speed; that's how my Swift is set up right now. Anyway, I think the Dia-Compe 287 levers are a reasonable compromise. They are not as crisp as V-brake/Mountain levers, but carefully adjusted, are sufficient. They are certainly more effective than road levers with something like Avid Shorty 4's. There really is no perfect substitute for Road STI lever/shifters. I haven't found the need to try bar-cons or bar-end shifters yet. My next challenge is likely to be fitting the redline Nexus 8 shifter to drops. Maybe the HubBub Bar End (See Harris Cyclery).
Good Luck. May all our challenges be as happy as solving bike hardware puzzles.

I hope to be receiving my Swift next week and join the ranks of Swift owners. I'm 6'4" and ordered the XL version, but plan to make a few customization (once it arrives.) I'd like to go with a drop bar rather than the flat bar, but was wondering what road brake levers would work best with V brake setup. Any suggestions? I have a spare set of bar end shifters and a 105 deraileur (short cage/double setup) that I plan to use for drivetrain. Never was a fan of twist grip setup, but that's just me.

Thanks!

Meant to mention I also am 6'4". HPM built my steel Swift and did an excellent job. Fits very well.
Cheers

Meant to mention I also am 6'4". HPM built my steel Swift and did an excellent job. Fits very well.
Cheers

Can you send out a couple of photos of your bike? I am interested in having one of the steel Swifts set up as a commuter and would be interested to learn more about their fit process etc. I won't buy a aluminum bike since I weigh 260+ and prefer steel for frame material, either way.:o

[QUOTE=Speedub.Nate]All right, James! You're my kind of mechanic! (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=130061)

Very slick. I especially like the use of the QR as tool holder.

I need some clarification from one or some of you Swift enthusiasts. I have another thread going and trying to determine if one will fit me since I am about 6'05" and it looks like it's going to work. From what I can tell, there are three ways of getting one: Xootr, Peter Reich and HPM. It looks like Xootr's is aluminum and Peter's is steel. Other than that, what are the differences and who do you recommend.

I just ordered one from HPM. Either Jan, or his frame builder Mac or both will make your swift to order. It takes about 3 months to get one built. They hand cut and build each frame to order here in the US. I think that Peter only sells the same aluminum frames the xootr sells now. If you buy directly from Peter instead of xootr, you can have it custom built with your choice of components and color of powder coating.

I ordered a steel swift from HPM, because I like the fact that it is being fabricated and built to order in a 2-3 man shop here in the U.S.. I prefer steel to aluminum, and I also like that Jan developed and built the swift with Peter. Mac was already working on a swift frame when I called, so my wait time should be about a month(hopefully less).

Has anyone purchased a Swift from the car dealer in Berkeley? Can you test ride the bicycles there before you buy? Do they do any bike service there? Or would I need to take the bike to a local bike shop?

Does anyone know the actual weight of the Swift? I've been to bike shops, and when they weigh the Dahon bikes, they are a few pounds heavier. The bike shop suspects that Dahon weighs the bikes without the pedals, fenders and rack.

And how much weight does adding fenders to the bike add?

Thanks!

Weight of the Swift depends on how you spec it out. Mine is about 30lbs but I have most everything on it. I have a rack, Brooks saddle, Thudbuster seatpost, internal hub, fenders, cyclometer, Big Apples, etc. It is setup like the SUV of bicycles at the moment.

It can go anywhere and do most anything. If you really try, you can get a Swift to be under 20 pounds if you have the aluminum framed version. I most likely have the heaviest Swift in existence but it is super versatile and I can ride it for hours on end in comfort on terrible roads and dirt paths.

Weight of the Swift depends on how you spec it out. Mine is about 30lbs but I have most everything on it. I have a rack, Brooks saddle, Thudbuster seatpost, internal hub, fenders, cyclometer, Big Apples, etc. It is setup like the SUV of bicycles at the moment.

It can go anywhere and do most anything. If you really try, you can get a Swift to be under 20 pounds if you have the aluminum framed version. I most likely have the heaviest Swift in existence but it is super versatile and I can ride it for hours on end in comfort on terrible roads and dirt paths.


Photos please........we want to see your bike!:D

+1

Why oh why do people describe their bikes using words only in this day and age of digital cameras? :D

My Swift frame still has not landed :( This week hopefully...

Has anyone purchased a Swift from the car dealer in Berkeley? Can you test ride the bicycles there before you buy? Do they do any bike service there? Or would I need to take the bike to a local bike shop?


Yes (well, actually a car mechanic -- I don't believe he's a dealer)! Yes. No, I think just automobiles. Yes.

Big Apples on Ye Olde Swift

I've been using the Marathon Slicks for awhile, and like the rolling resistance but find they're just too harsh, especially on longer rides. So, I'm thinking about switching to Big Apples.

I've noticed there are two 406 sizes: 20 x 2.0, and 20 x 2.35. Anyone know which one is the optimal fit for a Swift?

Also, am I likely to lose any speed or acceleration with the switch?

I have the 20x2.0 Big Apples. As far as I know, I was the first one to mount them on a Swift. I was told by Peter and everyone I asked that they hadn't tried them and didn't think they would fit. Here is a thread where I posted pics a while ago but without the rack attached. This was posted about a year ago.

Here is my Swift with Big Apples (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=2145518&postcount=1)

That's what I want to build up but with a sprung brooks saddle and drop bars. I like the full fenders and the wide tires for the 20" wheel. Thank you for the photos. Does the gearing setup give you a 20" low and why not use a Surly chain tensioner rather than a derailleur? I like the hub gear idea but the gear range in my area would not be low enough or high enough. I currently ride a 20" to 90" set up and find that is all I need. Any riding observations such as squirreliness or lack of and/or ride qualities would be appreciated. I have no experience with a folder and am currently riding a 32mm 700c wheeled bike with a long wheelbase and sprung saddle. This combo is extremely comfortable on longer rides although I want a folder for commuting and wish for a simular ride quality. Any thoughts?:)

I have a double chainring up front. So far no normal tensioner has worked. The gear range of the internal hub on it is own is over 300%. I have a pretty wide gear range as is. I haven't found the need for more.

The Thudbuster in combo with the Big Apples, absolutely transforms roads. I have a sprung Brooks (actually 2 of them) and this combo is MUCH better and it is tuneable. I made my Swift into the equivalent of a GT car. It has pretty long legs and I can spend hours in the saddle. I don't need drop bars as there isn't much point. I don't need to be in a tuck. The Big Apples are biased toward comfort without having a lot of rolling resistance. They are amazing in town as well for soaking up curbs.

I went with heavy duty Sun rims and spokes. I have a stainless chain and great brakes. This bike has been the absolute best folder I've ever ridden. If I had to keep one bike out of all the bikes I've owned or have now, it would be this one. A few parts swaps and you can make into almost a race bike. As it is now I can take it on dirt paths, grass or hard packed sand and it is like a SUV. In the city the the internal hub means if I have to make a quick stop, no problem downshifting at a stop. This is especially handed when I am loaded down with touring gear.

The Swift is a great bike that just happens to fold.

I may in fact have to order a steel one and build it up. It may turn out to be the only bike I have and that would be fine with me since I am wanting to streamline my lifestyle and have less stuff to take care of and watch over. The appeal of a folder is undeniable, especially if the ride quaility and average speed is compairable to a large wheeled bike. Tire wear concerns me somewhat as does component wear. Not sure if the smaller wheel wears out faster due to higher rpms at a given speed or if it matters much at all.
Buying tires more than once a year is not something I want to be doing. I presently ride about 2500 per year but plan to double that. Gotta save the money!:D

... average speed is compairable to a large wheeled bike.
I'd be cautious about this assumption. Getting up to speed on a good folder is no problem, but maintaining that speed is another issue. Many find it easier to maintain a fast speed on larger wheeled bikes, that is, if speed is your thing.

It's definitely not the same issue as high racers vs. low racers in which the difference in wheel size is more negligible. :p

The Eagle has landed! Uh no, that is the Swift actually. I have my frame!

Just one problem putting it together, I can't get the hinge pin out so that I can put the rear triangle on. The nylock nut comes off, but the bolt is fixed to the hinge pin. Is there a secret formula that I have to recite, or am I not using enough force?

Also, the hinge interface looks like a special substance, copper mixed in with black stuff, is grease required?

[edit]I found the secret formula. The hinge pin IS the bolt. Gentle tapping got it out. I have to complement the designers on the precise fit of the hinge bolt.

Jur,

May I ask how much the frame cost you?

Juan

$390. Seat post & steering riser is included.

I got my swift some new components:
1.) a beautiful set of vintage high-flange campagnolo pista hubs. Front wheel spoked radially. Man, THAT LOOKS cool on the 20" wheels.
2.) a set of vintage campagnolo pista cranks
3.) a campa 12 T cog, that will make the perfect gearing with the 52T front.

Pictures will follow soon.

lookin forward to seeing those pics!

+1

Why oh why do people describe their bikes using words only in this day and age of digital cameras? :D

My Swift frame still has not landed :( This week hopefully...

My bike looks like all the "catalog" reresentations of steel Swifts. Why should I go to the effort, and it is an effort, to stage a photo shoot of one of my bikes. Is a photo that shows slighty bigger chainring or slightly different bars really all that hot? Further, if I cah sufficintly describe my bike, why can't you invest a little energy by engaging your imagination? Don't mean to sound harsh, but come on.. picturs only? no text?

My bike looks like all the "catalog" reresentations of steel Swifts. Why should I go to the effort, and it is an effort, to stage a photo shoot of one of my bikes. Is a photo that shows slighty bigger chainring or slightly different bars really all that hot? Further, if I cah sufficintly describe my bike, why can't you invest a little energy by engaging your imagination? Don't mean to sound harsh, but come on.. picturs only? no text?because there can never be enough bike p0rn... :D

Nuff said

I have the 20x2.0 Big Apples. As far as I know, I was the first one to mount them on a Swift. I was told by Peter and everyone I asked that they hadn't tried them and didn't think they would fit. Here is a thread where I posted pics a while ago but without the rack attached. This was posted about a year ago.

Here is my Swift with Big Apples (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=2145518&postcount=1)Ahhh, thanks for this Swift p0rn fix. I like your bike. Read everything, too. That looks like a SA hub in the back. Do you have anything to report on it? I also have one on the R20, and shifting can be finicky. 6th gear has very close adjustmant tolerances, it has to be correct or it will slip a bit. 4th gear has a slight 'grind' (for want of a better word).

Apologies for these mltiple posts; I am just excited by the prospect of building my Swift.

Last night I noticed there are bottle cage insert nuts on the steering riser; is this a new feature? I don't recall seeing this mentioned before.

Ahhh, thanks for this Swift p0rn fix. I like your bike. Read everything, too. That looks like a SA hub in the back. Do you have anything to report on it? I also have one on the R20, and shifting can be finicky. 6th gear has very close adjustmant tolerances, it has to be correct or it will slip a bit. 4th gear has a slight 'grind' (for want of a better word).

I have written extensively about it in some of this Swift thread. I think I was one of the first ones to go with the Shimano Nexus 8 spd high efficiency hub. It has been a great hub. I've had the SA 8spd on my Downtubes. The Shimano is super efficient for an internal hub, incredibly quiet and is fairly light It also has the 1:1 ratio in 5th gear which is quite useful for me.

I spent a lot of time deciding what I wanted to create with my Swift. Since it was all final, I haven't felt the need to change anything. In other words my vision and reality turned out to be the same thing. It may not a road race Swift but it is probably the ultimate touring Swift and a great city bike as well. What potholes? Rain? No problem with the fenders. My earlier quoted weight also includes the kickstand which is a very sturdy one.

I was looking at the Xootr Swift website today, and I noticed that on the order page there is now an XXL option. It is not described in the sizing section. Anybody know what the XXL entails?

Speedo

I was looking at the Xootr Swift website today, and I noticed that on the order page there is now an XXL option. It is not described in the sizing section. Anybody know what the XXL entails?

Speedo

Just heard back from Xootr. Longer seat post. I think somebody bought one as an accessory earlier.

Nice that they are offering as a "standard" size option.

Speedo

@Wavshrdr: Your bike looks very elaborated. Very nice!
On the pictures I really dont get the arrangement around the EZY-pedals. Are those very fat classic straps you are using without those metal rakes? Can you provide us one more shot of those?

I really like the idea of making a custom "SWIFT FOLDER" writing after a fresh powder coat. I thought about a white glossy powdercoat with a nifty writing like the attached one... Maybe even the cutout pattern sticker can be coated transparent to "marry" with the frame...
I'd love to hear some opinions about that....

Nice; personally I would drop the word 'folder', it seems a bit redundant to me.