Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Where to start?

I'm very recently getting into cycling (Friday last week was my first time riding a road bike, and first time on a bike since four years prior). I have a long standing habit of doing time consuming cardio and naturally I want to get into ultracycling (I've run a handful of ultramarathons, and have definitely done equivalent feats on the game Pump It Up ("DDR" for those of you not in the know)). But I have no clue where to begin, how quickly I should expect to progress, or how I should expect my body to hold up. I will be doing my first century on Saturday just to get an idea of how I can keep pace on longer rides (I've gone to 60 miles keeping a pace of 20mph, but that was in beyond ideal conditions and probably "beginners luck").

My questions are this.

1) What specific stumbling blocks will I run into beyond time constraints? I've heard of 'saddle sores' (though people tell me not to worry since I have a Brooks), but what other injuries are common when getting started with ultracycling?

2) How do I find others locally who wouldn't mind tagging along on 50+ mile training rides? Are there clubs specifically for distance riding?

3) More experienced riders, how long has it taken you to get where you are?c Have you met, exceeded, or fallen short of your expectations?

I suppose I'll have more, but I'm a bit tired and need to get some sleep. Thanks in advance for any replies!

I recommend the "Tips for Riding a Century" thread. It has a lot of relevant information.

One of the important habits to learn is to eat and drink regularly throughout the ride (at least 200 kcal an hour, at least some water every 15 minutes).

Personally, I started road biking in October after riding as much as 50 km on a shopping bike. I did rides of about 100 km in December, about 160 km in February and my first 300 km in May. Riding further is definitely easier than riding faster.

I'm very recently getting into cycling (Friday last week was my first time riding a road bike, and first time on a bike since four years prior). I have a long standing habit of doing time consuming cardio and naturally I want to get into ultracycling (I've run a handful of ultramarathons, and have definitely done equivalent feats on the game Pump It Up ("DDR" for those of you not in the know)). But I have no clue where to begin, how quickly I should expect to progress, or how I should expect my body to hold up. I will be doing my first century on Saturday just to get an idea of how I can keep pace on longer rides (I've gone to 60 miles keeping a pace of 20mph, but that was in beyond ideal conditions and probably "beginners luck").

My questions are this.

1) What specific stumbling blocks will I run into beyond time constraints? I've heard of 'saddle sores' (though people tell me not to worry since I have a Brooks), but what other injuries are common when getting started with ultracycling?

2) How do I find others locally who wouldn't mind tagging along on 50+ mile training rides? Are there clubs specifically for distance riding?

3) More experienced riders, how long has it taken you to get where you are?c Have you met, exceeded, or fallen short of your expectations?

I suppose I'll have more, but I'm a bit tired and need to get some sleep. Thanks in advance for any replies!

I'm still new to this, so perhaps my perspective will be useful to you.

Specific stumbling blocks I've encountered: Fit. It takes some time to figure out how to be comfortable on a bicycle for 10+ hours. Seat height, fore/aft position, bar height, etc. Then, as your flexibility and core strength change (hopefully improve!) things change a bit. For me, it was worthwhile to get a pro fit done to sort out the lower body. The handlebar, I can do that myself, adjusting height and reach and width as I see fit. It should be noted, however, that the quality of 'pro' fits varies significantly. Ask around, maybe get more than one opinion. It costs money, but it's the most important factor in determining your success.

I also had a problem with my IT band that's pretty common among long distance cyclists. You probably know about this from your running days, but if not it's worth while to look into it. Get yourself a roller and figure out some stretches to keep things limber.

I would think that any road club is going to distances that will get you going in randonneuring. The local racer club probably doesn't do 200+ km rides, but they'll do centuries and stuff and that'll get you there. Once you start doing the long stuff, you'll be hanging with the rando club anyways. Even if long distance racing is what you're more interested in, I suspect the local randos will be the folks you want to ride with. There's always some guys at the pointy end of a brevet who treat them as such, and train appropriately.

Good luck!

tell us if you live through the century, and then we'll know how to tell you to proceed :)

There are all sorts of physical ailments that don't show up until you ride longer rides. I have found that 80 miles is a significant point as far as saddle/shorts go. I wouldn't expect the Brooks to be a panacea, although many people have good luck with them. You also will find out if you have fit problems.

I guess the "best info" is at the UMCA web site - where that is.....

As far as clubs in your area - and or riders and rides - you need to check with PACTours and get info about the local brevet series operated out of Sharon WI - I think?

If you were smart enough to become a successful runner then all you really need to do is to apply your instincts to the bike. Of course you must take care - often the heart and mind have much too much determination for the different muscles you will recruit when cycling. An overuse injury is almost more prevelent among "cross over" athletes than newbies.......

You will have "weak links" in your overall cycling development, only you, and only by experience will you discover and overcome these pitfalls - on the road to your new cycling successes.

I plugged "chicago randonneurs" into Google and found this: http://www.thechainlink.org/group/chicagorandonneurs

In a town that size, there *has* to be some interest in distance riding. ;)

Lon Haldeman runs a set of brevets out of Sharon each year - (at least he did) - and if you wanted to bump into some "hard core" ultra riders - that would probably be the place. but i could be wrong.......

I can't find it anymore - have to wait..

I will be doing my first century on Saturday just to get an idea of how I can keep pace on longer rides (I've gone to 60 miles keeping a pace of 20mph, but that was in beyond ideal conditions and probably "beginners luck").

That's a good place to start. See how you do on this first century. See if you want to ride another one. If you do ... ride another one. Riding 60 miles will tell you nothing about how you'll do on 100 miles.


My questions are this.

1) What specific stumbling blocks will I run into beyond time constraints? I've heard of 'saddle sores' (though people tell me not to worry since I have a Brooks), but what other injuries are common when getting started with ultracycling?

I've ridden well over 100,000 km including four 1200K randonnees. I've had one saddle sore in that time because of a combination of loose shorts, rain, and a gel saddle. There's a good chance you may never have a saddle sore.

And a lot of injuries can be prevented by ensuring that your bicycle fits you. Also don't assume that if your bicycle fit you well one year that it is going to continue to fit you 10 years later. You may have to make small adjustments every so often.



2) How do I find others locally who wouldn't mind tagging along on 50+ mile training rides? Are there clubs specifically for distance riding?

Check out my Links page ... http://www.machka.net/links.htm


3) More experienced riders, how long has it taken you to get where you are?c Have you met, exceeded, or fallen short of your expectations?

I rode my first century in 1994, and vowed I'd never do another ride of that length again.

Then in 1997, I rode 2 centuries, and they weren't too bad.

Then in 1998, I started racing and raced for 3 years.

At the end of the season in 2000, I had tired of the racing scene, and was looking for something else. So I tracked down Randonneuring, and in 2001, I rode my first Super Randonneur series. And I've done a lot of long distance riding since then.

See my website: www.machka.net

Lon Haldeman runs a set of brevets out of Sharon each year - (at least he did) - and if you wanted to bump into some "hard core" ultra riders - that would probably be the place. but i could be wrong.......

I can't find it anymore - have to wait..Richard --

I understand that Lon stopped being an RBA several years ago. No more Sharon, WI. Apparently no more Arizona PacTour hell-weeks.

Of course, my understanding could be mis-informed.
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The "Chicago" randonneurs do all their brevets somewhere in the middle of Wisconsin. Being originally from NW Illinois, you might think I'd be somewhat familiar with Wisconsin, but no. It is easy to find the Chicago randonneurs. Just a little effort on the big interweb, just a little poking around on the RUSA website, even just a little poking around in the Great Lakes forum here on Bikeforums -- information will pop out. Information on the RUSA website includes the name and e-mail address of the Chicago RBA.

There appears to be exactly one Permanent in northern Illinois (starts in Naperville). A little poking around on the RUSA website, and an interested person would easily find that, and the name and e-mail address of the route owner / organizer, and that would likely lead to more information.

The "Chicago" randonneurs do all their brevets somewhere in the middle of Wisconsin.

www.glrrando.org

Richard --

I understand that Lon stopped being an RBA several years ago. No more Sharon, WI. Apparently no more Arizona PacTour hell-weeks.

Of course, my understanding could be mis-informed.
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Check his site..... www.pactour.com

Thanks for all the input guys!

I went out for a 50 mile ride today in less-than-ideal conditions (Storming at the start, fighting 20mph winds for the rest of the ride) and was fairly humbled by the experience.

One thing that'll definitely need to change for my century in two days is that I need to eat a LOT more before leaving (I had one skinless chicken breast for breakfast with a glass of water, then left), more than one water bottle (the second being filled with something like gatorade), and a bag with some snacks. Ha ha ha.

I was feeling pretty punished by the 42nd mile, hopefully if I prepare slightly better and the weather works in my favor I'll be able to handle the century much easier. Tomorrow's menu is nothing but delicious carbs.

One thing that'll definitely need to change for my century in two days is that I need to eat a LOT more before leaving (I had one skinless chicken breast for breakfast with a glass of water, then left), more than one water bottle (the second being filled with something like gatorade), and a bag with some snacks. Ha ha ha.

I was feeling pretty punished by the 42nd mile, hopefully if I prepare slightly better and the weather works in my favor I'll be able to handle the century much easier. Tomorrow's menu is nothing but delicious carbs.


One of the reasons for building up to a long distance gradually is so that you can get your nutrition and hydration sorted out.

You probably don't need to need a lot more before the ride. Maybe put the chicken on a piece of bread. But you need to eat regularly during the ride. And you need to determine what snacks will work well for you.

Have you read the Tips for Riding a Century sticky thread yet? There's some nutritional information there which could be helpful for you.

One of the reasons for building up to a long distance gradually is so that you can get your nutrition and hydration sorted out.

You probably don't need to need a lot more before the ride. Maybe put the chicken on a piece of bread. But you need to eat regularly during the ride. And you need to determine what snacks will work well for you.

Have you read the Tips for Riding a Century sticky thread yet? There's some nutritional information there which could be helpful for you.
I scanned through it briefly, and I'll be going in depth with it today.

I'm feeling confident enough to tackle a century with less than a week of cycling experience because I have six years of history with doing non-stop cardio. I just underestimated how well I'd be able to hold up on a bike (Though I still think it would have gone better if I wasn't fighting strong winds the entire way).

After I stopped and got a snack around mile 42, I definitely could have gone for a substantially longer trip. I had to end it at 50 miles because I ran out of daylight and I don't have any lights or reflective gear on my bike, and I was clothed in all black.

Check his site..... www.pactour.com (http://www.pactour.com)Are you implying that my post that Lon & Susan no longer are RBA's, no longer do the Sharon, WI and/or Arizona hell-week of brevets, is incorrect?

If that is what you are attempting to imply -- I suggest you follow your own link to the PacTour web site. No Arizona brevets next year -- only (? - only - ?) five weeks of normal PacTour touring while in Arizona. And 3 trans-continental tours: Elite on a southern route, Northern, Southern.

Lon and Susan last did brevets out of Sharon, WI (Beloit is listed as the official region) in 2007.
The link to results for the "Beloit, WI" region didn't work.

Lon and Susan last did brevets in Arizona in 2008.
The link to results for the "Desert Camp, AZ" region didn't work.

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Btw, I know I can do brevets up to 600k; some friend(s) doing the ToC-1200 in a couple weeks are wondering why I'm not doing at least the 1000 as they think I'm in better shape than them; but I have no illusions about me being able to complete even a "normal" PacTour trans-continental. I ain't that tough. I know some who are, but I'm not.

...I'm feeling confident enough to tackle a century with less than a week of cycling experience because I have six years of history with doing non-stop cardio. I just underestimated how well I'd be able to hold up on a bike (Though I still think it would have gone better if I wasn't fighting strong winds the entire way)....

There is a lot more to cycling fitness than just cardio. When I first started cycling I was running 30+ miles a week. My first ride on the bike was a 30 miler, I made it about 8 miles and almost puked. ;) The cycling fitness came fast though. Mainly because of my running fitness. I did my first century just under three months after I got my bike. It was a little harder than I expected. Probably because it had 10,000ft of climbing. Not an ideal first century but I had no idea. The moral here is that if you are in good physical condition you can ride the bike as far as you want. Where you are likely to run into problems is that the longer you are on the bike the more likely that you are going to start having fit/stress issues. I can almost guarantee that unless you were fitted on your bike by someone who knows what they are doing, with your limited cycling experience, you are not in an optimal position on the bike. You could have hand problems, foot problems, seat problems, knee problems etc. plus there are a lot of cycling muscles involved besides your legs. Finally, just because you have a brooks saddle does not mean that you are immune to saddle sores or seat problems. Brooks are quality saddles but they are not the bees knees for everyone.

On the RUSA home page, they have links to all the rando clubs, www.rusa.org (http://www.rusa.org).

Randonneuring doesn't demand a whole lot of speed, and if you can plug away all day at 14 mph, you can do fine. If you're riding with a group, then it depends on what that group is doing as to how fast and how fun it is. If you were riding with our rando group, then at 20 mph, you'd be doing most rides solo. A lot of "regular-distance" roadies do 100k or 100 mile routes fast, and you may find that more to your liking for training- check local bike shops and bike clubs. If you insist on riding fast, you may find long-distance racing more to your liking than randonneuring. Look up the Ultra-Marathon Cycling Association above.

The pre-aged Brooks on my Raleigh Sojourn was comfy from the get-go, the regular B17 on my tandem, less so. In both cases, I had to experiment with saddle angle to avoid personal numbness.

I kind of worked my way into this, I didn't get up one morning and say "I'm going (edited) to buy a bike and become a randonneur!" And a lot of my progess was just losing weight and getting a decent bike, so it varies considerably from yours.

I kind of worked my way into this, I didn't get up one morning and say "I'm boing to buy a bike and become a randonneur!" And a lot of my progess was just losing weight and getting a decent bike, so it varies considerably from yours.

+1

I've been cycling since I was 6 years old. When my interest in cycling waned a bit in my teens, I got into running and cross-country skiing. Then I picked cycling back up again when I was 23. But it was still 4 years before I attempted my first century.

I expect I could have done it sooner than that, but I didn't feel ready. And even though I had done quite a bit of cycling in preparation for that century, I still struggled with it. My struggle was mainly nutritional, and partially bicycle fit.

Going from riding a road bicycle for the first time in 4 years last week to riding a century this week might be a bit of a quick progression. Sure, the cardio strength might be there ... but the bicycle fit? And nutrition/hydration? Maybe ... maybe not.

Are you implying that my post that Lon & Susan no longer are RBA's, no longer do the Sharon, WI and/or Arizona hell-week of brevets, is incorrect?

If that is what you are attempting to imply -- I suggest you follow your own link to the PacTour web site. No Arizona brevets next year -- only (? - only - ?) five weeks of normal PacTour touring while in Arizona. And 3 trans-continental tours: Elite on a southern route, Northern, Southern.

Lon and Susan last did brevets out of Sharon, WI (Beloit is listed as the official region) in 2007.
The link to results for the "Beloit, WI" region didn't work.

Lon and Susan last did brevets in Arizona in 2008.
The link to results for the "Desert Camp, AZ" region didn't work.

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Btw, I know I can do brevets up to 600k; some friend(s) doing the ToC-1200 in a couple weeks are wondering why I'm not doing at least the 1000 as they think I'm in better shape than them; but I have no illusions about me being able to complete even a "normal" PacTour trans-continental. I ain't that tough. I know some who are, but I'm not.

I seem to have inadvertantly touched a nerve. I'm not implying anything bud. I simply posted the link to their sire for others' convenience.

Went for my Century on Saturday. Held a pace of 18mph without too much effort, however I didn't finish. I had to end it early due to a cable snapping on me in the 31st mile jeopardizing the safety of the ride. :( Got it replaced this morning and will be trying again next Saturday.

Went for my Century on Saturday. Held a pace of 18mph without too much effort, however I didn't finish. I had to end it early due to a cable snapping on me in the 31st mile jeopardizing the safety of the ride. :( Got it replaced this morning and will be trying again next Saturday.

Check the other one too! I assume this was a brake cable?

Went for my Century on Saturday. Held a pace of 18mph without too much effort, however I didn't finish. I had to end it early due to a cable snapping on me in the 31st mile jeopardizing the safety of the ride. :( Got it replaced this morning and will be trying again next Saturday.

18 mph might be all right for 31 miles ... but don't count on holding that for 100 miles. You might, who knows, but there's a huge difference between 31 miles and 100 miles.

I did my first 50 miles today, I might have done 50 or more before but I dont know cause I never paid attention to miles or speed back then. I just rode for the fun of it & didnt care how many miles I did. Now I do care about mileage. I'm gonna get a bike computer soon so I wont have to pay attention to mile markers or drive the route to find the mileage out. Getting the computer primarily for keeping track of speed. I'm working towards doing my 1st century.

I did my first 50 miles today, I might have done 50 or more before but I dont know cause I never paid attention to miles or speed back then. I just rode for the fun of it & didnt care how many miles I did. Now I do care about mileage. I'm gonna get a bike computer soon so I wont have to pay attention to mile markers or drive the route to find the mileage out. Getting the computer primarily for keeping track of speed. I'm working towards doing my 1st century.

good times . . . .

Sometimes I go out with electrical tape over my computer so I can't worry about speed/distance. Most of my favorite rides have happened this way.

Randonneuring doesn't demand a whole lot of speed, and if you can plug away all day at 14 mph, you can do fine.


18 mph might be all right for 31 miles ... but don't count on holding that for 100 miles. You might, who knows, but there's a huge difference between 31 miles and 100 miles.

So 14mph allows for enough time at controls? Does 14mph on the bike allow for any sleep on a 600k?

I can average about 16.5mph on a century, but as I want to stretch myself into longer events and explore randonneuring I admit I have NO illusions that I can hold that on brevets. I was hoping to be able to average 13-14mph on the bike. Will that be enough?

(sometimes hard to tell when folks talk about average speed on a brevet whether they mean total or on the bike)

I have never tracked my time at controles, but then again I have no idea how fast I'm going most of the time anyway. No speedometer.

I think on a 600k you should be ok averaging 12mph with controles. I like to be able to get at least 1 1/2 hours of sleep at the 400k point. Generally, if you are slow it's best to be quick at controles. People who are slow and waste a lot of time at controles don't finish in time. The nice thing is you can learn a lot by riding 200k brevets. Some slow people I know use something like Perpetuum (i.e., liquid calories) to keep their time down at controles. I'm always amazed at how much time people waste at controles. Granted, talking to volunteers and other riders is part of the attraction of randonneuring, but so is finishing.

So 14mph allows for enough time at controls? Does 14mph on the bike allow for any sleep on a 600k?

I can average about 16.5mph on a century, but as I want to stretch myself into longer events and explore randonneuring I admit I have NO illusions that I can hold that on brevets. I was hoping to be able to average 13-14mph on the bike. Will that be enough?

(sometimes hard to tell when folks talk about average speed on a brevet whether they mean total or on the bike)


These are the time limits for the randonnees:

200K = 13.5 hours
300K = 20 hours
400K = 27 hours
600K = 40 hours
1000K = 75 hours
1200K = 90 hours.

For the 200K, 300K, 400K, and 600K you must maintain an average minimum speed of 15 km/h, including all breaks. Therefore it is advisable to be able to cycle at least 18 km/h in order to be able to take some breaks for eating, toilet, and getting your card signed. Maintaining 18 km/h riding speed on the bicycle will give you a little over 2 hours to use for breaks on a 200K, and will give you a little over 6 hours for breaks on a 600K ... which is tight. If you plan your ride well and take very short breaks, you could possibly get a couple hours sleep on a 600K at that speed.

I have done randonnees where I've cycled around the 18 km/h riding speed, and it is possible, but I've been stressed the whole time ... barely making it into controls, no time to make adjustments, rest, etc. It's better if you can maintain 20 km/h or higher to give yourself a bit of extra time to play with.


Also keep in mind that the majority of randonneurs (even the very fast ones) slow down through the longer events. So if you're doing a 600K, and you're maintaining 20 km/h riding speed for the first 200K, you might drop to 19 km/h for the next 200K, and 18 km/h for the last 200K. It happens that way because we tire out.


And all randonnneurs should talk about average speed in terms of total time because that's what counts on a randonnee. If you start a 200K at 8 am, you've got to be finished by 9:30 pm or you will have DNF'd. You must finish 13.5 hours after you start, or at a minimum average speed of 15 km/h.

One of the rando-addicts :) I met this past spring reckoned that the "sweet spot" for randonneuring was 14-17 MPH (about 23-27km/h) on the bike. If you can sustain that pace, you'll make the time limits and have enough time at the controls.

Well I would like to hear of whatever "accomplishments" in cycling the new ultra-runner turned cyclist achieves. I thought this thread was about trying to switch sports as quickly and successfully as possible. Having experience as a sub-three hour marathoner as well as a dozen quad centuries I thought my advice was worthwhile. (or at least sourced in actual experience)

Anyway FWIW - the only real issues facing people who switch between sports has to do with the details surrounding how there body interacts with the bicycle. (contact points etc) The other issue has to do with how their mind feeds back correct data about the condition of specific muscle fatigue and how well they judge their appropriate effort level across an entire event.

The sum of my advice is simple:



Runners possess positive physical and mental adaptations that make their ability to transition to ultra-cycling very successful.
However, ultra running experience can also be a source of training confusion and injury when former runners misapply their effort and fail to respect the new bicycling-specific physical demands that successful ultra cycling requires.

And all randonnneurs should talk about average speed in terms of total time because that's what counts on a randonnee. If you start a 200K at 8 am, you've got to be finished by 9:30 pm or you will have DNF'd. You must finish 13.5 hours after you start, or at a minimum average speed of 15 km/h.

Machka - great advice as always! I can boil it down a little more for the new rider in our ranks:


If you can average a rolling 15 mph, for every two hours on the bike, you can take an hour off the bike.

That makes easy for even the mathematically-challenged to figure out how to bank time for a little R&R. That ties in nicely with your 15 km/h number also.

If you want to see how well this works, John Lee Ellis adopted a spreadsheet from Steve "Bones" Matney & the Shenandoah 1200 and customized it for the CO Last Chance.

If you're a numbers guy, it's pretty cool to see the impact that your rolling speed plays when combined with the minutes off the bike between controls and the time spent at overnight stops:

http://www.rmccrides.com/lastchance2008strategy.xls

I get brain lock when I look at those kinds of spreadsheets. There are some sections of my upcoming 1200k that have a large number of climbing miles between certain controles. I know I'm not going to average 14mph when there is a 3 mile climb between 2 controls that are 40 miles apart.

I did like the 8 hour overnights though :)

When I'm riding and want to estimate how long it's going to take between controles, I use 10mph. When I was a kid, I used to use 20mph. Don't think that was realistic back then either.

Something I read (admittedly from a 200k ride, which isn't comparable to the LONG stuff, but as I recall, this thread is entitled "where to start"):


"After the guffaws of "how long was our nap?" and a similar comment or two, Tim and Ian acknowledged that they had been discussing the fruitlessness of hammering an inconsistent 19-mph pace and needing more time at the control, compared to riding a steady-17-mph pace and being a bit quicker through the control. They concluded that it wasn't worth the extra effort; and that all they had gotten out of the last section was ... they were tired.

Subsequent to the ride, I checked the cue sheet and did some calculations. It is 21.5 miles [between the two controls]. At 19-mph, it takes 8 fewer minutes to cover the distance as compared to 17-mph. If the 19-mph riders take 8-minutes-more at the [second] control than the 17-mph rider --> the 17-mph rider will leave the [second] control first.

To complete the circle: I did pull out first as we left together. And Ian and Tim tacked-on to me for awhile."

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Although I am a numbers guy, I am with "unter" regarding the overdone spreadsheet approach. Plus, I think it may add another layer of "control-times" to worry about.

I have avoided doing any of Tony's mountain brevet-fests because I'm a slow climber. But if/when I finally do one of Tony's mountain-fest rides, I won't worry about 3-mile climbs, instead I'll worry about the 6 or 12-mile climbs.

I haven't checked the profile of the 1200 that "unter" is doing soon -- hmmn, one week from now will be 14 hours after the start -- because I'm not doing that event; however, I am absolutely confident that my friend Robert (1 of the 2 or 3 that I "recruited" to rando) has made a very detailed Excel spreadsheet of what to have with him when, and where he expects to be when, taking into account the mountainous sections versus the hilly sections versus the FLAT sections.

Philosophically, I much prefer the approach of our mutual friend, Bob. Bob knows he will be challenging the closing times the first 400+k (the mountain part), possibly getting no sleep that first day-and-night and hoping to find a cat-nap or two the second day (through the Uwharries), then hoping for decent weather and more catnaps through the flat sections and back through the rollers to Greensboro. A much calmer mental approach.
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[Start] at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/34976.html)

I get brain lock when I look at those kinds of spreadsheets. There are some sections of my upcoming 1200k that have a large number of climbing miles between certain controles. I know I'm not going to average 14mph when there is a 3 mile climb between 2 controls that are 40 miles apart.

I did like the 8 hour overnights though :)

When I'm riding and want to estimate how long it's going to take between controles, I use 10mph. When I was a kid, I used to use 20mph. Don't think that was realistic back then either.

Pretty much what I do - the speadsheet is something to play with! Once the ride starts, I forget about it and just....ride my ride.

Sometimes you have to slow down to speed up. Making mistakes will cost you a lot more time than riding fast will gain you. I think on a long ride it makes sense not to ride beyond your fitness, but at this point I'm not sure what that point really is.

it's hard to tell, but it does look like there is an 8 mile climb on the ToC1200. Too bad there isn't a series of sprints, that I can handle a lot better.

I would mess around with a spreadsheet, but I have no idea how to use it properly. It really all depends on when I make it back into Greensboro on the first day. That will determine the nature of my whole ride.

Instead, I'm using my time to go through the route on a mapping site and reviewing the cue sheet. One of the riders I know that did it last year tells me he did a 4 hour bonus ride the first day.

My method with many of the longer randonnees (i.e. 600K +) was to determine what time I'd like to be at my estimated sleep locations in order to be able to get at least 2 hours sleep. So if my estimated sleep control closed at 4 am, for example, I wanted to be there by 1 am so that I would have a short wind-down period, at least 2 hours of lying down, and a short getting going period. If I happened to arrive earlier than 1 am, it was bonus time.

....


Runners possess positive physical and mental adaptations that make their ability to transition to ultra-cycling very successful.

However, ultra running experience can also be a source of training confusion and injury when former runners misapply their effort and fail to respect the new bicycling-specific physical demands that successful ultra cycling requires.



Two years ago my tandem partner on RAAM was an accomplished ultra-distance runner. She'd done around a dozen 150mile running races and over 50 marathons. She had not ridden a bike until 8 months before RAAM. It was very interesting to see her progress on the bike. She had a couple crashes on her single and broke her arm but cardio fitness wise she was good (probably better than me) right off the start. What I found interesting was that she didn't know how to "suffer" on the bike. To really push yourself like you need to do on the bike to go fast. Of course, I only have a data point of one, so take this for what it's worth. I think it takes a while to earn your cycling legs no matter what your conditioning is.

My method with many of the longer randonnees (i.e. 600K +) was to determine what time I'd like to be at my estimated sleep locations in order to be able to get at least 2 hours sleep. So if my estimated sleep control closed at 4 am, for example, I wanted to be there by 1 am so that I would have a short wind-down period, at least 2 hours of lying down, and a short getting going period. If I happened to arrive earlier than 1 am, it was bonus time.

I think the speed thing is solely dependent on how strong of a rider you are and how much you like to sleep. I'm not the fastest guy out there buy any means but I can get down the road pretty good when I want to. I know plenty of people of people who can easily average 20mph on the bike on a 1200k. Heck I did the first 200k of a 600k in 4:45 once. That left lots of time for a nap and messing around at controls! I guess what I'm trying to get at is that how fast you plan to go and how you spend your time at the controls is a very individual thing. If you are not very fast you are going to ride and use your stopped time very differently than someone who is fast. Where I see people getting into trouble is when they aren't very fast and still don't use their stopped time wisely. This is why I harp on speed work for randoneurs so much. Not to make them race their brevets but to make them fast enough so that they have time to enjoy their time off the bike, get appropriate sleep and generally increase the fun factor!

I think the speed thing is solely dependent on how strong of a rider you are and how much you like to sleep. I'm not the fastest guy out there buy any means but I can get down the road pretty good when I want to. I know plenty of people of people who can easily average 20mph on the bike on a 1200k. Heck I did the first 200k of a 600k in 4:45 once. That left lots of time for a nap and messing around at controls! I guess what I'm trying to get at is that how fast you plan to go and how you spend your time at the controls is a very individual thing. If you are not very fast you are going to ride and use your stopped time very differently than someone who is fast. Where I see people getting into trouble is when they aren't very fast and still don't use their stopped time wisely. This is why I harp on speed work for randoneurs so much. Not to make them race their brevets but to make them fast enough so that they have time to enjoy their time off the bike, get appropriate sleep and generally increase the fun factor!

This is exactly why I asked about a "reasonable" speed on the bike, so that you're not simply rushed at every control with no extra time for any sleep. I totally get what Machka is saying about it really coming down to total average time in order to complete the event within the required time limit but, for me, I also need to think in terms of average speed on-the-bike, since that greatly effects what goes on (or can go on) off-the-bike. Just the way my brain works (or doesn't).

Jan Heine wrote a blog post about stops on a 1200k. He likes to finish the rides quickly, but for us slow riders I think the point is the same. When on a longer ride, the stops should be spent resting if at all possible. You can relax on the bike. I can average above 14 mph on the bike if there isn't too much steep climbing. I can actually go quite a bit faster than that if it's flat and not too much wind. Weight shouldn't slow you down if there aren't too many long, steep hills.

I wish I had managed to lose more weight this summer, I still can't climb with the fast guys. I think in a week and a half I'll be quite a bit lighter, and I'm going to try to keep the weight off if at all possible. I have been doing quite a bit of climbing, it's been really good for my sprint. Not a real useful ability for a randonneur.

This is exactly why I asked about a "reasonable" speed on the bike, so that you're not simply rushed at every control with no extra time for any sleep. I totally get what Machka is saying about it really coming down to total average time in order to complete the event within the required time limit but, for me, I also need to think in terms of average speed on-the-bike, since that greatly effects what goes on (or can go on) off-the-bike. Just the way my brain works (or doesn't).

That should be pretty easy then. All you have to do is figure out how much sleep you need/want, subtract that from your overall time for the event and calculate accordingly. I like to sleep at least 6hrs/day on 1200ks, so I usually go pretty hard on the first day and "bank" some hours just because you never know what will happen, especially on a 1200k. Plus it's easier to go harder when you are fresh. The last thing you want to do on a 1200k is be chasing control times from the start. You're going to have to do a lot of these types of calculations on the bike (in your head) because "things" happen and rides vary rarely go exactly as you plan.

Well I would like to hear of whatever "accomplishments" in cycling the new ultra-runner turned cyclist achieves. I thought this thread was about trying to switch sports as quickly and successfully as possible...

If you'll re-read the original post, he mentions his background included running, but then he asked three questions, none of which involved running or transitioning between running and cycling, so the more general responses above are also pertinent to the questions asked.

"Something I read (admittedly from a 200k ride, which isn't comparable to the LONG stuff..." Note that per the UMCA website, a Century counts as "ultracycling".

I'm not going to lie, I still consider 100 miles a long ride. Any time I can't just get on my bike the way it is and ride without special preparation, it's not a short ride.

... .

I wish I had managed to lose more weight this summer, .... I think in a week and a half I'll be quite a bit lighter, .... I have been doing quite a bit of climbing, it's been really good for my sprint. Not a real useful ability for a randonneur.Probably not wise to plan to lose weight during the 1200. Maintain the strength during the ride. Think about weight issues later. Not that I am at all qualified to comment on that.
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I don't understand the doing climbing not being a real useful ability for a randonneur. Am I missing the point? Did you leave a phrase out of the post?

If I did understand the point & if you didn't leave anything out -- I was under the impression that the PA rando routes were quite hilly (no personal experience), but if they aren't hilly enough to get a use out of your hill-climbing practice, perhaps you should consider some of Matt Settle's brevets or some of Tony's mountain-brevet-fests. I haven't done one of Matt's "soul-sucking" brevets, nor one of Tony's mountain-fests, either, but most the NC randos have, and the reports are that climbing ability helps, make that, is essential.

I'm not going to lie, I still consider 100 miles a long ride. Any time I can't just get on my bike the way it is and ride without special preparation, it's not a short ride.I won't lie either, 100-miles isn't short; but it isn't nearly as far as it used to seem. Doing a flat, flat 200k a couple years ago, I wondered how much further to the first control, so I looked at my cycle-confuser: "27.0" miles. I thought to myself, in a disappointed voice, "damn, still 9 more miles!" Then, a micro-second later, I thought to myself in a happy voice, "but only 100 miles to finish the ride!"

That was my second moment of rando revelation.