Touring - Narrowed it Down to 3 Touring Bikes. LHT, Trek 520, or Raleigh Sojourn

I would like to get a touring bike and have narrowed it down to three:

Surley Long Haul Trucker: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

Trek 520 Touring Bike: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520

Raleigh Sojourn: http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/commutertouring/sojourn-13/

Would love to know what you all think. Or of you have one of these, what are your thoughts?

I own and tour on a LHT with 26" wheels. I just finished an east to west TransAm tour on it...it is a great bike! I put racks, fenders, and a smaller "Granny Gear (ring)" 26 to a 24 tooth, and a Brooks Flyer on it. I had a partner for the first 1,500 miles (he became seriously ill and had to abandon the trip), he had purchased a Kona Sutra...it cost about the same as my LHT, but racks and fenders were included with the purchase. The Sutra components were nearly identical to my LHT's. He had to install a 24 tooth granny and change his cassette from a 32 to a 34. I was very impressed with his bike. My LHT effortlessly made the trip, I have no doubts that his Sutra would have done the same. I know you have narrowed your search to three, but have you taken a look at the Kona Sutra?

They're all capable touring bikes - get whatever you like. There are slight differences in frame geometry and gearing. Cost differences aside, I rank them in order of preference as:

1. LHT
2. 520
3. Sojourn.

LHT and 520 are close, Sojourn trailing a bit. The gearing on the Sojourn is a little too tall for many loaded tourists (30-39-50 x 11-25t= 32-123 gear-inch). Raleigh appears to have changed the Sojourn's rear dropouts and rack mounting point for the worse over previous models. Wheels are perhaps better now than the original 32h.

If the Sojourn's disc brakes appeal to you, then I recommend that you investigate the Surly Disc Trucker:

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/disc_trucker

I own and tour on a LHT with 26" wheels. I just finished an east to west TransAm tour on it...it is a great bike! I put racks, fenders, and a smaller "Granny Gear (ring)" 26 to a 24 tooth, and a Brooks Flyer on it. I had a partner for the first 1,500 miles (he became seriously ill and had to abandon the trip), he had purchased a Kona Sutra...it cost about the same as my LHT, but racks and fenders were included with the purchase. The Sutra components were nearly identical to my LHT's. He had to install a 24 tooth granny and change his cassette from a 32 to a 34. I was very impressed with his bike. My LHT effortlessly made the trip, I have no doubts that his Sutra would have done the same. I know you have narrowed your search to three, but have you taken a look at the Kona Sutra?

I am finding the LHT at about $1200 and the Sutra at $1600. Maybe I am wrong?

I vote trek 520, a great bike.

I vote trek 520, a great bike.

+1

I vote trek 520, a great bike.

+1

Add any 26" rugged on-lesser paved road wheels?..

Peter White in NH bringing the Tout Terrain SilkRoad adventure travel frames and forks
over from Germany . fork designed to be extra strong in the left blade,
where the disc brake fits, and the rear rack (stainless) welded on the frame Chromo,

and the EBB with the IGH frame option is tops..
[they make a frame for the derailleur drivetrain consumers too ]

wiring for Dyno-hub and rack mounted taillight are planned in.

Add any 26" rugged on-lesser paved road wheels?..

Peter White in NH bringing the Tout Terrain SilkRoad adventure travel frames and forks
over from Germany . fork designed to be extra strong in the left blade,
where the disc brake fits, and the rear rack (stainless) welded on the frame Chromo,

and the EBB with the IGH frame option is tops..
[they make a frame for the derailleur drivetrain consumers too ]

wiring for Dyno-hub and rack mounted taillight are planned in.

+1

better than the 3 at the top, by far, for serious long-distance touring.

would go with Rohloff if price isn't an issue or the Alfine/Nexus if price is an issue. the slight increase in cost (500€ extra for an Rohloff vs. XT components) will pay for itself after a few years (especially if your time has value). the Alfine/Nexus route is nice as well, but those units have a much, much higher failure rate, although they are 500€ less than the Rohloff or similar in price to XT components.

also, this selection eliminates the most common failure points on a serious long-distance expedition-style bike.

link: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp

the original company webpage is here in English:

http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/

and they have a bicycle configuratior that you might find interesting

I vote trek 520, a great bike.

Can you please tell me what you like/dislike about it? Thank you!

+1

Can you please tell me what you like/dislike about it? Thank you!

I am hoping to get a fully built bike for $1300 tops for the bike.

Only had experience with Disk Trucker and 520(2012).
voted for 520.
i tour only once or twice a year, the rest of time the "touring" bike serves as a commuter/utility bike or a weekend "speedy" bike. 520 fits in this. i just did a tour from Ottawa, Ontario to Algonquin, 520+gear are about 110 pound, solid. yet prety nimble/speedy when its unloaded, while the LHT or theDisk Trucker is a bit on heavy/slow side. i tested them side by side.

Ideally you should base your decision on bike fit. There are significant differences in geometry among the frames you listed. Surly LHTs get a lot of love on this forum but their fit is less than ideal for everyone. For my purposes, their top tubes are too long and head tubes too short. I would also add the Soma Saga to the list of touring bikes to consider. It costs a little more than the LHT, but has a geometry much more favorable to cyclists who prefer a more upright position relative to the LHT. You would also have to get it built up as Soma only sells frames/forks, but any bike shop should be thrilled to do that for you. If you don't mind spending more money, the Gunnar Grand Tour is another nice option and you could get it painted just about any color.

I own and tour on a LHT with 26" wheels. I just finished an east to west TransAm tour on it...it is a great bike! I put racks, fenders, and a smaller "Granny Gear (ring)" 26 to a 24 tooth,

I thought you had gone a bit daft when you wrote you replaced the 26 with a 24, but then I looked it up. Surly is now selling the LHT with a 26. It used to be a 24.

OP: I would recommend doing this swap. The 520 also has a small ring of 26.

I bought my first LHT in '08. When it was stolen in late '10, I bought another one. As a big guy, one thing I have been impressed with is the wheelset. I crossed the country in '99 on a Cannondale T-700 with wheels that were not up to the task of carrying the heavy load I had, which included a lot of photo equipment. I can tell you first hand that constant wheel problems on tour suck big time. By the time I got to OH, a shop found cracks around almost every eyelet of the rear rim. Before I went to Spain the follwing winter, I discovered similar crack in the front rim.


My LHT wheels have performed flawlessly. In addition to serving as my daily commuter on the crappy streets of Philly, my current LHT has been on at least three 3-day tours and one 10-day tour in MT which included 60 miles of unpaved roads, some of them rough. The wheels have never needed truing. I just rode it on the rugged roads of d2r2. They are as true as ever.

With all that said, fit is the paramount concern.

Would love to know what you all think. Or of you have one of these, what are your thoughts?

I know everyone loves the LHT, but it's always seemed a bit over-priced to me; too many low-end components for a bike which costs that much. The Trek 520 seems to have the best component mix though, again, you pay for it. The Raleigh Sojourn is a bit of an odd duck: it's got some great touring components (Brooks B17, disc brakes) and some not so great (30/39/50 crank, 11-25 cassette, Sora & Alivio derailleurs). I'd be tempted to go with the Sojourn, mostly because I like the all-weather stopping consistency of disc brakes, but I'd probably end up tossing the crank, cassette, tires, and possibly derailleurs before my first long tour...

The Raleigh Sojourn is a bit of an odd duck: it's got some great touring components (Brooks B17, disc brakes) and some not so great (30/39/50 crank, 11-25 cassette, Sora & Alivio derailleurs). I'd be tempted to go with the Sojourn, mostly because I like the all-weather stopping consistency of disc brakes, but I'd probably end up tossing the crank, cassette, tires, and possibly derailleurs before my first long tour...
I'd agree with the "odd duck" label, but the "great touring components" you mention are both things I'd rather not have, so they are not even a plus for everyone. The original incarnation of this bike was a POS in my opinion, but I admit the spec looks better these days, at least these days they are using 36 spoke wheels. Especially before , but even now to a lesser extent I think of the Brooks saddle, Brooks bar tape, and disc brakes as "lipstick on a pig".

Not sure what the current incarnation weighs, but the original ones reportedly weighed in at 34.5 pounds. I know that for me that is too much. My ultralight setup has come it at less than that including bike, racks, bags, tools, spares, clothing, and gear. Not everyone wants to go that light, but 34.5 pounds for just the bike seems a bit much.

I would like to get a touring bike and have narrowed it down to three:

Surley Long Haul Trucker: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

Trek 520 Touring Bike: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520

Raleigh Sojourn: http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/commutertouring/sojourn-13/

Would love to know what you all think. Or of you have one of these, what are your thoughts?

You leave out your weight and intended load. Once you've narrowed it down to three bikes it'll be your impression riding them. Personally I'd pick the 520 for general use and touring but if you're especially heavy or intend on carrying a heavy load the LHT is great. I don't particularly like how the 700c LHT handles but the 26" wheel version is great.

Especially before , but even now to a lesser extent I think of the Brooks saddle, Brooks bar tape, and disc brakes as "lipstick on a pig".

Not clear to me why you think the Sojourn is the lipstick-wearing pig of this bunch. On paper, it looks significantly better than the LHT. Not quite as nice as the Trek 520, component-wise, but quite a bit cheaper from what I could find...


Not sure what the current incarnation weighs, but the original ones reportedly weighed in at 34.5 pounds. I know that for me that is too much. My ultralight setup has come it at less than that including bike, racks, bags, tools, spares, clothing, and gear. Not everyone wants to go that light, but 34.5 pounds for just the bike seems a bit much.

Most owners of the forum-praised LHT report their bikes as weighing 32-33lbs, from what I can recall. Not sure that 1-2lbs of additional weight is going to make a whole lot of difference on a bike designed for loaded touring.

Most owners of the forum-praised LHT report their bikes as weighing 32-33lbs, from what I can recall. Not sure that 1-2lbs of additional weight is going to make a whole lot of difference on a bike designed for loaded touring.

I don't think weight is an issue to consider. I had an LHT and thought it was a great bike. When you load a touring bike, look at the end of the process and decide if it is manageable. I liked the LHT but later upgraded the frame to a Riv Hunqapillar (http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2011/10/re-review-hunq.html). The Hunq is more versatile, (doubles as a good 29er) and is more responsive handling the roads and off road trails. I always felt I was "steering" the LHT rather than just leaning through the turns.


Marc

They're all capable touring bikes - get whatever you like. There are slight differences in frame geometry and gearing. Cost differences aside, I rank them in order of preference as:

1. LHT
2. 520
3. Sojourn.

LHT and 520 are close, Sojourn trailing a bit. The gearing on the Sojourn is a little too tall for many loaded tourists (30-39-50 x 11-25t= 32-123 gear-inch). Raleigh appears to have changed the Sojourn's rear dropouts and rack mounting point for the worse over previous models. Wheels are perhaps better now than the original 32h.
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I'd go this route too. The LHT has the Trek in frame dimensions, i.e. it's a longer frame, while the Trek has a slightly better parts pick. If you have big feet, the LHT is going to keep your feet from hitting the bags. The Trek has a crank that will let you lower the gear to almost stupid levels...you can find 20 tooth inners for that BCD pretty easily.

The Sojourn is a very distant 3rd in my book. The gearing is fine if you are young, strong, stupid and virile. But if you are old, strongish, wise and still virile, a drivetrain that is geared much, much lower is better. Depends on how much you want to ride your bike vs walking your bike on steep hills. A 30/25 low gear is going to mean a lot of walking...even if you are young and strong. Plus that rack mount is just goofy.

Not clear to me why you think the Sojourn is the lipstick-wearing pig of this bunch. On paper, it looks significantly better than the LHT. Not quite as nice as the Trek 520, component-wise, but quite a bit cheaper from what I could find...

Well I guess it depends on how you view the specs. To be honest I am not crazy about either bike, but I like the spec on the LHT components better. I guess that if I valued the brooks saddle, disc brakes, and brooks bar tape, it would help my view of the Sojourn, but I do not especially want any of those items. I'd take the brooks off and sell it. I'd probably keep the bar tape until I shredded it. I guess I'd keep the the disc brakes but would never have chosen them and don't especially want them.

The derailleurs on the LHT are nicer IMO. The crank choice on the LHT makes more sense. I'd rather have the LX stuff than the Alvio when it comes to the other components.

I really like the Raleigh, but not as a loaded expedition level tourer. Seems a good choice for someone wanting a more versatile road bike (which could include light-medium touring), a rando bike or a commuter. Still I'd swap the rear cassette to get GIs into the twentys first thing.

Brad

Still I'd swap the rear cassette to get GIs into the twentys first thing.

Since it already has an 11-34 cassette, you would need to change rings to get much lower gearing. Also I think you can fit a 24T ring on the inner, but I think the middle will not accept anything smaller than 39T

I know nothing about bikes but just wanted say that as a new LHT owner the shifting is very crisp. I believe the front derailleur is lower end (Sora) but I think the rear derailleur is equivalent to a 105 in quality. Also aren't the wheels stronger on the LHT compared to the 520? If so, is that a more important consideration than the slightly better 520 derailleurs?

I agree that 1-2 lbs of weight shouldn't be a consideration...

Since it already has an 11-34 cassette, you would need to change rings to get much lower gearing. Also I think you can fit a 24T ring on the inner, but I think the middle will not accept anything smaller than 39T

You've got the cassette wrong. On the Sojourn it's an 11-25. Shimano has been doing some goofy things with cranks lately and I'd suspect that you may not be able to go lower than the 30 tooth ring.

You've got the cassette wrong. On the Sojourn it's an 11-25. Shimano has been doing some goofy things with cranks lately and I'd suspect that you may not be able to go lower than the 30 tooth ring.
Not according the the spec on the Raleigh site:
http://www.raleighusa.com/archive/2012-steel-road/sojourn-12/

They list a Shimano HG30 9spd (11-34) .

You've got the cassette wrong. On the Sojourn it's an 11-25. Shimano has been doing some goofy things with cranks lately and I'd suspect that you may not be able to go lower than the 30 tooth ring.

You may be confusing with the Raleigh Clubman perhaps?!? The Sojourn has always been equipped with a 11-34 cassette. It's the 130BCD road crankset that is a goofy thing; unlike the road touring bike by REI's Novara brand. But then, in Canada under the MEC label and sells for $1300, that bike is also equipped with a 50/39/30 road crankset and sells well. In my Canadian part of town, the Sojourn is sold for $999 Cad and since we're at par, it is $999 US. To bring the gear inches even lower, swap the crankset at the store, get a credit and slap on a Sugino 110/74BCD crankset (48/36/24) for $150 more. So tell me, where can you can a Brooks saddle, WTB curved handle bar with Brooks tape and discs for $1150 Canadian. Yes, it's heavy as a pig compared to my Masi Speciale CX, but it does ride really nice. Too bad the Masi fits me better than the Sojourn, or I would have bought that rather putting more money for a 11-36 SLX 10 speed rear. The rear rack is a Tubus I believe and is heavy. The frame itself is a Reynolds 520 and it's as heavy as any steel, but the accessories that came with it aren't light. I mean, the Brooks saddle itself isn't a light weight compared to my titanium rail racing saddle which is a heck a lot lighter. I bet you if you bolt on the same accessories found on the Sojourn on the Trek or LHT, both bikes will become equally like a pig.

Not according the the spec on the Raleigh site:
http://www.raleighusa.com/archive/2012-steel-road/sojourn-12/

They list a Shimano HG30 9spd (11-34) .

There are two different specs for the bike floating around. The OP linked to this version:

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/commutertouring/sojourn-13/

Which does seem to show an 11-25 cassette. That's probably incorrect, because: 1) nobody would put an 11-25 cassette on a touring bike, and 2) the Shimano CS-HG30 9-speed cassette only comes in 11-32 and 11-34 sizes.

Shimano has been doing some goofy things with cranks lately and I'd suspect that you may not be able to go lower than the 30 tooth ring.

The Raleigh uses a standard road triple with 110/74mm BCD. It looks like Dimension, Sugino, and T.A. offer 74mm BCD 5-bolt chain rings in 24-, 26-, and 28-tooth sizes that should fit. Whether the derailleurs will handle a (50-24 =) 26-tooth jump I don't know. The official spec probably suggests a 22-tooth maximum difference between the small and large chainrings.

Probably 11-34t:

http://road.cc/content/review/59935-raleigh-sojourn

You may be confusing with the Raleigh Clubman perhaps?!? The Sojourn has always been equipped with a 11-34 cassette. It's the 130BCD road crankset that is a goofy thing; unlike the road touring bike by REI's Novara brand. But then, in Canada under the MEC label and sells for $1300, that bike is also equipped with a 50/39/30 road crankset and sells well. In my Canadian part of town, the Sojourn is sold for $999 Cad and since we're at par, it is $999 US. To bring the gear inches even lower, swap the crankset at the store, get a credit and slap on a Sugino 110/74BCD crankset (48/36/24) for $150 more. So tell me, where can you can a Brooks saddle, WTB curved handle bar with Brooks tape and discs for $1150 Canadian. Yes, it's heavy as a pig compared to my Masi Speciale CX, but it does ride really nice. Too bad the Masi fits me better than the Sojourn, or I would have bought that rather putting more money for a 11-36 SLX 10 speed rear. The rear rack is a Tubus I believe and is heavy. The frame itself is a Reynolds 520 and it's as heavy as any steel, but the accessories that came with it aren't light. I mean, the Brooks saddle itself isn't a light weight compared to my titanium rail racing saddle which is a heck a lot lighter. I bet you if you bolt on the same accessories found on the Sojourn on the Trek or LHT, both bikes will become equally like a pig.

Nope. Not confusing it. I went through the link that chefissac provided. This looks like the 2013 version.

I doubt that the rack on the 2012 version is a Tubus. It's likely a Tubus clone. The Tubus racks aren't all that heavy but they are very durable and very expensive. The 2013 model apparently uses a propriety rack which would be difficult to replace if it broke.




There are two different specs for the bike floating around. The OP linked to this version:

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/commutertouring/sojourn-13/

Which does seem to show an 11-25 cassette. That's probably incorrect, because: 1) nobody would put an 11-25 cassette on a touring bike, and 2) the Shimano CS-HG30 9-speed cassette only comes in 11-32 and 11-34 sizes.

You appear to be right about the HG30 cassette. Just going on what the copy says.

And the rack mount is still goofy.

The Raleigh uses a standard road triple with 110/74mm BCD. It looks like Dimension, Sugino, and T.A. offer 74mm BCD 5-bolt chain rings in 24-, 26-, and 28-tooth sizes that should fit. Whether the derailleurs will handle a (50-24 =) 26-tooth jump I don't know. The official spec probably suggests a 22-tooth maximum difference between the small and large chainrings.

It's a 130mm/74mm BCD. The derailer will probably handle the jump but the middle ring is limited to a 39 so the jump down 24 would be a bit...jarring. The larger issue is that you, as the consumer, shouldn't have to deal with changing rings and/or cranks. At the very least Raleigh should have looked at the intended purpose and done a little homework.

Look at both the Surly and the Trek, while I have a few issues with the Trek in that it's a little short if you have average feet and it costs too much, it's got a pretty good component spec. The LHT has a very good touring frame and an okay component spec. If the LHT had a crank like the Trek, it'd be almost perfect.

Weird... So is the 2013 Sojourn equipped with an 11-25 cassette? That would seem a poor choice for most tourists.

...the rack mount is still goofy.

Raleigh had it right before, then screwed it up a little. The 2013 Sojourn frame has new chainstays and rear dropouts.

The chainstays for 2010, 2011 and 2012 were round tubing, slightly larger diameter than the seatstays. The dropout on these models provided mounts in the center of the dropout (tapped holes). I don't personally care for the round tubing CS - it tells me the framebuilder was too cheap to pay a premium for the unusually long (touring length) conical chainstays preferred by most builders (and cyclists), and makes me wonder what other shortcuts were used in the frame. The Sojourn has an unnecessarily large diameter downtube, and if Raleigh used straight gauge tube rather than the usual butted tube, then this would largely solve the mystery of why a bike that should weigh 29 lbs really weighs 34. Evidently it now weighs 32 lbs, based on earlier linked review article (#32) (http://road.cc/content/review/59935-raleigh-sojourn).

The 2013 gets proper tapered (or conical) tubing for the chainstays. Also a new dropout with 2 mounts, one to the rear, one up top. The fender is mounted to the lower point and the rack is mounted to the upper mount. The upper mounting point is ~3cm forward of the lower mount point. If I bought a Sojourn, I might swap the rack and fender mounting points for maximum heel/bag clearance.

Notice the big cassette in the pic that's not a 11-25t:

269035

I am finding the LHT at about $1200 and the Sutra at $1600. Maybe I am wrong?

Wow! Big difference in just over a year! If the price difference you specified is correct, then I would go with one of the other three. Forget about the Kona Sutra...as good a bike as it is, it isn't worth that price.

I have a 2012 Raleigh Sojourn and absolutely LOVE it! It took me over a year to get this bike and it was worth the wait.

My Sojourn came with a 50/39/30 crank and 9-speed 11-34T cassette. I almost never use the 26, 30, or 34 cogs; just don't need them.

The bike is heavy and with saddlebags and tools in place the weight comes in at 42lbs. However, this hasn't kept me from hitting a 20mph average on this bike and 19mph is starting to get more regular. http://ridewithgps.com/trips/833886 (32.9kph * .62 = 20.39mph)

I LOVE the disc brakes. I love the 700 x 35 tires. I love the factory fenders. I Love, Love, Love the Brooks saddle. The Brooks bar tape is far more comfortable than I thought.

The riding position is a little more aggressive than I like. I think the bars on a touring bike should be level with the saddle and I can't achieve this on my Sojourn without getting another stem. The rear shifting has not been impressive but a deore derailleur is not that expensive and an easy change if I so choose.

I've got to take some pictures and post them. I brought Clyde home on July 3rd, rode a 100 miles the next day and have put 1,482 miles all together on the bike since then.

I'll trade you my 11-34 cassette for the 11-25 cassette if you want ;-)

OEM builds buy components by the pallet of cases.. you work with the retail LBS,
to make individual alterations to the build to suit your personal preferences,
once it is in the shops.

I have a 2012 Raleigh Sojourn and absolutely LOVE it! It took me over a year to get this bike and it was worth the wait.

My Sojourn came with a 50/39/30 crank and 9-speed 11-34T cassette. I almost never use the 26, 30, or 34 cogs; just don't need them.

The bike is heavy and with saddlebags and tools in place the weight comes in at 42lbs. However, this hasn't kept me from hitting a 20mph average on this bike and 19mph is starting to get more regular. http://ridewithgps.com/trips/833886 (32.9kph * .62 = 20.39mph)

I LOVE the disc brakes. I love the 700 x 35 tires. I love the factory fenders. I Love, Love, Love the Brooks saddle. The Brooks bar tape is far more comfortable than I thought.

The riding position is a little more aggressive than I like. I think the bars on a touring bike should be level with the saddle and I can't achieve this on my Sojourn without getting another stem. The rear shifting has not been impressive but a deore derailleur is not that expensive and an easy change if I so choose.

I've got to take some pictures and post them. I brought Clyde home on July 3rd, rode a 100 miles the next day and have put 1,482 miles all together on the bike since then.

I'll trade you my 11-34 cassette for the 11-25 cassette if you want ;-)

Good post.

There have been a number of good reviews on this bike from a number of people. Post your pictures please.

I have a 2012 Raleigh Sojourn and absolutely LOVE it! It took me over a year to get this bike and it was worth the wait.

My Sojourn came with a 50/39/30 crank and 9-speed 11-34T cassette. I almost never use the 26, 30, or 34 cogs; just don't need them.

The bike is heavy and with saddlebags and tools in place the weight comes in at 42lbs. However, this hasn't kept me from hitting a 20mph average on this bike and 19mph is starting to get more regular. http://ridewithgps.com/trips/833886 (32.9kph * .62 = 20.39mph)

I LOVE the disc brakes. I love the 700 x 35 tires. I love the factory fenders. I Love, Love, Love the Brooks saddle. The Brooks bar tape is far more comfortable than I thought.

The riding position is a little more aggressive than I like. I think the bars on a touring bike should be level with the saddle and I can't achieve this on my Sojourn without getting another stem. The rear shifting has not been impressive but a deore derailleur is not that expensive and an easy change if I so choose.

I've got to take some pictures and post them. I brought Clyde home on July 3rd, rode a 100 miles the next day and have put 1,482 miles all together on the bike since then.

I'll trade you my 11-34 cassette for the 11-25 cassette if you want ;-)

I almost bought the 53cm bike for $999 Canadian because it had everything I needed. Sadly, it didn't fit me as well as the Masi CX, and now I had to pay even more to outfit it the same low gearing as this bike. People will be lucky to own this bike if it fits you. Speaking of the beast, it does not feel like it's heavy and sluggish at all even though it weighs about 5lbs heavier than my CX. And yes, I tested it extensively with real physical bikes including the Novara Randonee, LHT in Portland at the Bike Coop Annex and the Fuji plus the Windsor Tourist from BikesDirect from a friend and not some imaginary internet google here and google there and formed quasi opinions. I was surprised and impressed with the Sojourn. Surly LHT and Soma are excellent marketed products by the people of QBP.

Weird... So is the 2013 Sojourn equipped with an 11-25 cassette? That would seem a poor choice for most tourists.

It's a typo. The HG-30 is a mountain cassette, so it's either a 11-32 or 11-34; most likely a 34. The HG-50, however, is a 11-25T cassette. Alivio grouppo from Shimano site..

Raleigh had it right before, then screwed it up a little. The 2013 Sojourn frame has new chainstays and rear dropouts.

The chainstays for 2010, 2011 and 2012 were round tubing, slightly larger diameter than the seatstays. The dropout on these models provided mounts in the center of the dropout (tapped holes). I don't personally care for the round tubing CS - it tells me the framebuilder was too cheap to pay a premium for the unusually long (touring length) conical chainstays preferred by most builders (and cyclists), and makes me wonder what other shortcuts were used in the frame. The Sojourn has an unnecessarily large diameter downtube, and if Raleigh used straight gauge tube rather than the usual butted tube, then this would largely solve the mystery of why a bike that should weigh 29 lbs really weighs 34. Evidently it now weighs 32 lbs, based on earlier linked review article (#32) (http://road.cc/content/review/59935-raleigh-sojourn).

The 2013 gets proper tapered (or conical) tubing for the chainstays. Also a new dropout with 2 mounts, one to the rear, one up top. The fender is mounted to the lower point and the rack is mounted to the upper mount. The upper mounting point is ~3cm forward of the lower mount point. If I bought a Sojourn, I might swap the rack and fender mounting points for maximum heel/bag clearance.

Notice the big cassette in the pic that's not a 11-25t:

269035


But then there are well branded name touring bike that weight equally as heavy as the Sojourn. It's funny as to how they don't get criticized as often as the Raleigh. Bad this, bad that..

There is always a compromise between frame stiffness and weight and how much it weighs. Steel is heavy, so there's no getting around making it lighter other than some fancy tube work and manufacturing processes. The design process of any touring frame mounts is about satisfying a certain rider's needs and when I attended the Portland PDX bike show this year and was speaking with an extremely knowledgable Salsa rep, he went on saying how so many so called frame expert designers who come by his booth would come to him and say, the Fargo is a bad design or the Vaya mounts and fenders were all wrong and the gearing is wrong (why a double) and so forth and so on. But that's the beauty of it. We have choices and no one bike will make everyone happy. The Sojourn isn't a perfect touring bike and thus it has flaws. As long as some one understands the value it possess and the ability to ride comfortably I think is the ultimate satisfaction people get. It's sad that a lot of people who would not even consider a Sojourn, nor would even look at it because they heard from the internet that it's a big heavy pig. Never even contemplate on testing it. The bike shop who sold quite a few Sojourns told me that that's how people judge these days. Just by reading the internet and not even bother putting their feet on to those pedals.

I don't know why you guys sweat and argue over components. As I previously stated, you could buy a Soma Saga -- which IMHO is a better frame than any of those mentioned -- and build it up with exactly the components you want for about the same money. I never buy complete bikes. I buy frames and get them built up. Then I don't have to worry about whether the bike has the wrong cassette, crankset, brakes, etc.

Building up a frame is a great option for those so inclined, especially for knowledgeable people who may already have some of the components handy. But building up a bike from a frame can easily be more expensive than buying the complete bike.

Other than swapping out the crankset on the Sojourn (and the cassette if it's a 11-25), all 3 bikes will work very well perfectly stock. The key of course is fit, as many have stated.

The stock components on the 520 and the LHT are all good quality and will provide solid service and are appropriate for most touring uses. Other than the exception of the gearing on the Sojourn (and possibly the rear rack), the same is true of the Sojourn, even if Alivio is farther down on Shimano's food chain.

I don't know why you guys sweat and argue over components. As I previously stated, you could buy a Soma Saga -- which IMHO is a better frame than any of those mentioned -- and build it up with exactly the components you want for about the same money. I never buy complete bikes. I buy frames and get them built up. Then I don't have to worry about whether the bike has the wrong cassette, crankset, brakes, etc.

We sweat and discuss components because most people aren't going to build their own. And building your own from parts isn't going to be as inexpensive as buying complete. Sure you might be able to find deals on parts or use old parts or use parts but you have to do a lot of leg work to find those deals, old parts and used parts. You also have to pay the hidden costs...shipping and taxes...of those parts. Even if you bought the parts previously and just have them around, you still had to pay for them.

There are good reasons to build your own. Those include putting parts on it that no manufacturer would ever put on the bike or bling factor or just wanting an individual bike but one should never go into a build thinking that you are going to 'save' money. I've done it too many time to share that delusion.

I wasn't saying you would save money by building up a bike with parts, but that you get exactly what you want. The cost is dependent on what parts you have on hand, whether you can get good deals on parts on-line and the cost of having the bike built. I tend to collect parts when I find them on sale or used parts in good condition, or I swap them from other bikes. My LBS charges about $150 to swap parts from another frame and build up a new one.

What confuses me is why some of you argue over components that are very easy to swap out, such as a cassette or even a crank set. What you SHOULD be concerned about is bike fit. The LHT has a geometry that is very different than other options. It has long top tubes and short head tubes. That fits some riders great -- namely those with a lot of flexibility who don't mind relatively low handlebars or lots and lots of spacers on the steerer tubes. Others (like myself) find the LHT geometry less than ideal. I don't want to tour or commute on a bike with low handlebars, which may be fine for racing but doesn't serve much purpose for touring or commuting unless you are simply more comfortable riding like that. The aerodynamic benefits are negligible when you bike is loaded with panniers.

What confuses me is why some of you argue over components that are very easy to swap out, such as a cassette or even a crank set. What you SHOULD be concerned about is bike fit. The LHT has a geometry that is very different than other options. It has long top tubes and short head tubes. That fits some riders great -- namely those with a lot of flexibility who don't mind relatively low handlebars or lots and lots of spacers on the steerer tubes. Others (like myself) find the LHT geometry less than ideal. I don't want to tour or commute on a bike with low handlebars, which may be fine for racing but doesn't serve much purpose for touring or commuting unless you are simply more comfortable riding like that. The aerodynamic benefits are negligible when you bike is loaded with panniers.

I agree, bike fit is paramount.

True, cassettes and cranksets in this situation can be swapped out easily because the derailleur on the Sojourn is a long cage model, and there aren't STI issues for the front derailleur. A good bike shop should do that, but some bike shops will upcharge, and that adds to the cost (e.g. a well known bike co-op in the Twin Cities charged our son for a stem that he swapped out when he got his LHT new from them -- I know the new stem was "only" $20, but there were no other swaps, and I wasn't impressed with that at all).

For me, the biggest problem with the inclusion of inappropriate components on what is marketed as a touring bike is that it makes me wonder about other choices made by the manufacturer that aren't so obvious. Rightly or wrongly, I have more confidence that Surly has designed the LHT as a touring bike when the obvious things like gearing are appropriate.

The bike is heavy and with saddlebags and tools in place the weight comes in at 42lbs.

Interesting... I have to say that it surprises me that folks are OK with a 42 pound bike weight even including tools and bags. If it works for you that is great. I can respect that some folks are OK with that or even prefer it, I just have a hard time understanding why.

I prefer the other extreme. Last tour my bike complete with tools, spares, rack, bags, clothing, gear, toiletries, cooking and eating gear, plus all the general miscellaneous stuff came in at 33 pounds. I am not sure what I topped out at during the tour, but even when carrying all my gear, plus food, fuel, and water I doubt the bike ever hit the 42 pound mark. And that was my mountain bike with 2.2 inch wide tires.

I have in the past carried as much as 50 pounds of gear on a 29 pound bike and gradually trimmed down from there. I found that as I trimmed the list:

With less gear I could ride a more fun, sportier bike
The bike became more pleasant to ride with each reduction in load
It became easier to deal with getting the bike and gear to and from the tour (typically by commercial airlines)
Not only did I not miss the stuff that was eliminated but I enjoyed the simplicity of a minimal, but better thought out gear list


I think it is so nice when everything fits in a soft case that is under the airline weight limit and can easily be carried with the shoulder strap. I do carry a few items in a small "personal item" sized back pack with me when I board the plane, but could get it all in the soft case and be under 50 pounds if I had to as long as I didn't go too crazy with the cardboard and other padding materials I add to protect the bike.

Similarly I really enjoy the simplicity of life on tour with minimal gear.

Interesting... I have to say that it surprises me that folks are OK with a 42 pound bike weight even including tools and bags. If it works for you that is great. I can respect that some folks are OK with that or even prefer it, I just have a hard time understanding why.

I prefer the other extreme. Last tour my bike complete with tools, spares, rack, bags, clothing, gear, toiletries, cooking and eating gear, plus all the general miscellaneous stuff came in at 33 pounds. I am not sure what I topped out at during the tour, but even when carrying all my gear, plus food, fuel, and water I doubt the bike ever hit the 42 pound mark. And that was my mountain bike with 2.2 inch wide tires.

I have in the past carried as much as 50 pounds of gear on a 29 pound bike and gradually trimmed down from there. I found that as I trimmed the list:

With less gear I could ride a more fun, sportier bike
The bike became more pleasant to ride with each reduction in load
It became easier to deal with getting the bike and gear to and from the tour (typically by commercial airlines)
Not only did I not miss the stuff that was eliminated but I enjoyed the simplicity of a minimal, but better thought out gear list


I think it is so nice when everything fits in a soft case that is under the airline weight limit and can easily be carried with the shoulder strap. I do carry a few items in a small "personal item" sized back pack with me when I board the plane, but could get it all in the soft case and be under 50 pounds if I had to as long as I didn't go too crazy with the cardboard and other padding materials I add to protect the bike.

Similarly I really enjoy the simplicity of life on tour with minimal gear.

Bike preference is a very touchy and emotional subject I found. When I'm out there, we have debates like this in campsites with various opinions! You can not get a consensus on touring bikes alone gears, components and choices of frames because everyone have different and unique needs. I know my friend who does expedition tours each year insists on S&S coupled bikes period as being the best and he demands his followers to have the same or you get booted out, and with big fat tires and his bike weighing close to 38lbs. Ouch, that's a pig. And he's no amateur either. On the other extremes, another friend of mine loves his Windsor Tourist to death and travel the world with it. With the Windsor Tourist, it's not a light bike either but it's cheap. No fancy frame sticker or exotic frame lugs custom job either. Me.. I guess I'm with you. My Masi is a lot lighter than my friends' trucks and I use my carbon bike for road tours. As others had demonstrated, it really depends upon how much one is willing to shed comfort wise to achieve what they want. No one technique is best, just like some people are fine with Motel 6 and is ok with a few days without showers but others will only stay in 5 to 6 stars hotels and need their bubble bath every day. You can't win this debate.