Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Dumb questions before my first Brevet

Hi!! I am getting ready to do my first Brevet. I have some questions to which I am having a difficult time finding answers. I was hoping for a little friendly help.

I looked up the rules for the Brevet (200K) I am going to do and it says...


3.You must meet Ohio traffic laws, including those regarding bicycle illumination for nighttime riding. Lights must be firmly affixed to the vehicle and be of sufficient wattage to be visible from 500 feet away and you must display a rear reflector. At least one steady taillight must be lit whenever lights are required. Flashing lights shall not be used when riding in groups. Your lights must be lit while you are riding between sunset and sunrise. Riding in a group does not change the lighting requirement. All riders must use their lights. You will be disqualified any time you are found riding at night without your lights. During night riding every rider must wear a reflective safety vest, jacket, triangle or sash in addition to a reflective ankle band around each ankle. You must show spare bulbs and batteries when asked. Lights and reflective clothing must be on board at the start of the 300, 400 and 600k events. Reflective sashes, ankle bands and triangles are available to purchase directly from RUSA. Download the order form at http://www.rusa.org/Download/rusaitems-200702.pdf

Okay. The Brevet starts at 0730 (Sunrise is 0708) and I have 13:30 hrs to complete, finishing before 2100 (sunset is 1951). Here are my questions....


At least one steady taillight must be lit whenever lights are required.

So if I am using my Planet Bike Blinky Superflash Tail Light (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KBEH1W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00), it has to be set to "steady" mode and if I want a flashing light, I need a second tail light, correct?


During night riding every rider must wear a reflective safety vest, jacket, triangle or sash in addition to a reflective ankle band around each ankle.

Since I may possible be riding after sunset, it's considered night, correct? So I need reflective vest and ankle bands? I was looking at a Nathan Streak Reflective Vest (http://www.amazon.com/Nathan-Streak-Reflective-Vest/dp/B001IBJ1CS/ref=pd_sim_sg_2), but I don't know if that is what would be best. What do experienced Ultra cyclists wear?


You must show spare bulbs and batteries when asked.

So, I use a LED light with a bunch of bulbs in it. I don't think I can change bulbs if I wanted to! How does this work for me? Do I need a different light?

My light charges via USB and I have a universal portable battery pack (like this but different (http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Rechargeable-Battery-Cellphones-Smartphones/dp/B0062XMICW/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1345815560&sr=8-22&keywords=portable+battery+power+supply)). Does that count as spare a spare battery?

I realize these are probably dumb questions, but I would rather ask the dumb questions here rather than get out there and be out of luck!

Any tips that you can think of would be great too! Kind of, "What do you wish you knew when you went out on YOUR first brevet?" kinda thing.

I am hoping to be off the course in MUCH less than 13:30, but ya never know, right?

Thanks for all your help and advice!

Jim

Some RBA's are more anal about the rules than others but safety should really be your first concern. Having said that, I usually don't bring lights (headlights anyway) on 200k's unless they start in the dark or finish late at night. I almost always have a red taillight on the bike. It doesn't matter if its on blinking or not. There is some debate about which mode is "safer" but I doubt anyone is going to DNF you if your light is in blinking mode instead of continuous. I usually have two of them on my bike anyway. One on each seatstay. As far as the headlight goes, I bring a second LED headlight, that is my "spare" bulb. The second one is just a small really light battery powered LED that works well for climbing speeds, as a flashlight and as a main light in emergencies. That should cover you.

One thing you'll find is that the majority of brevets under 1000kms are pretty casual and not very many RBA's actually inspect the riders equipment.

Rusa rules must be followed, but local custom is often the case. There has been lots of debate on blinking vs. solid rear lights. I come down firmly in the blinky category. But, I always have 2 lights on mybike. I will use the solid mode early in the ride and then switch one to blinky mode when riders spread out more. Blinky is simply more visible from a distance and the batteries will last much longer. I will usually run a blinky light all day long. In some regions most people use blinkies and in others almost none. Just go with the flow.

The other thing is that most states define nightime as "before civil twilight in the morning, and after civil twilight in the evening." This usually gives you an extra 15 to 30 minutes on each end of legal daytime riding time depending on the time of year. Having said that, I want to be seen, so I will be highly visible regardless and will have extra lights.

A number of reflective vests will meet the current requirement but more is better. It is a trial and error process to find which one works for you in your area. Just make sure the vest will fit over your outerwear. The Nathan is a little snug.

The point on spare bulbs is a little dated given to dominance of LED lights, but the spirit of it is that you have a backup plan. Lights WILL fail so what are you going to do then? Have a backup.

Most new brevet riders that DNF will do so because of poor equipment choices, Things like using skinny racing tires or a poorly functioning bike usually come to mind. Outside of that not having enough spares on your bike can also cause a DNF. Several times I have had 4 or more flats on a ride even with good tires. Can you fix 4 flats and continue without outside support? My advise is take more than you think you need and then fine tune your "list" as your experience grows.

For your first brevet just have fun and pace yourself. You want your first experience to be a positive one. Good Luck.

Lonnie Wolff
RBA, Southern Utah region

If you're not already doing much night riding, now's the time to invest in some good lights. You never know whether something will happen on the 200k to make you come in late, so you might as well bring the vest and ankle-straps, too. They don't weigh much. :thumb:

..Most new brevet riders that DNF will do so because of poor equipment choices, Things like using skinny racing tires or a poorly functioning bike usually come to mind. Outside of that not having enough spares on your bike can also cause a DNF. ...

Seriously Lonnie?? I don't know how long you've been doing this but poor equipment choices is hardly on the top of the list for DNF'ing. You're going to tell me that 23mm or 25mm tires are more likely to flat than bigger tires??? I've been doing this since the 90's on those tires and I haven't seen where tire diameter has anything to do with flat propensity or DNFing. I've seen plenty of shredded tires of all sizes. Or are you talking about what type of bike they are on? From my experience, DNf's by neewbies are most often a result of improper nutrition or pacing. Not the type of equipment they are on.

PS, If you're talking about a well maintained bike, then we are more in agreement. I have seen people go out on poorly maintained bikes but that is a rarity.

"So if I am using my Planet Bike Blinky Superflash Tail Light, it has to be set to "steady" mode and if I want a flashing light, I need a second tail light, correct?"

Get a second taillight, and yes, keep one set to "steady". If you're actually doing a lot of night riding, you'll probably want additional lights. Don't be a Ninja rider.

"So I need reflective vest and ankle bands? I was looking at a Nathan Streak Reflective Vest, but I don't know if that is what would be best. What do experienced Ultra cyclists wear?"

Anything and everything. You can get a RUSA sash and anklebands via mailorder from RUSA, not much help if you're riding soon. My primary vest is a cheap construction-worker vest from Harbor Freight Tools, but they don't sell one exactly like it anymore. If you're riding at night a lot, look for visibility. If you're mainly riding in the day and need something "just in case", look for small pack size, and that's where the RUSA sash comes in handy. I was thinking the rules required reflective stuff all-around, so that the triangle by itself wasn't adequate, but I'm not positive there. If you use a Camelbak, either use a vest that fits over it, or put one of those triangles on the back of it. (And RUSA has cheap triangles, too.)

"You must show spare bulbs and batteries when asked."

That's from the dark ages. But if you're actually riding at night, a spare headlight is prudent- one of the ones that uses 2- AA's is good for that (and not so good for actually riding with!). And if you're using batteries, you obviously want spare batteries anyway.

OP -- have your tried contacting the RBA?


Blinking tail-lights: it is my understanding that in most, if not all, states, only emergency vehicles are legally allowed to have a blinking red light on the rear. It is my experience that poorly aimed blinking tail-lights are more-than-a-nuisance; on a 300 or 400 brevet in May-2011, I asked 3 or 4 friends to please change their lights from blinking to steady-state as their blinkies were driving me nuts.

Regardless of what type of tail-light you use, regardless of where mounted, make sure it directs its "beam" parallel to the ground. I hate being in a group / line at night when the tail-lights of the rider in front of me are pointed at my eyes instead of parallel to the ground & pointed at the potential traffic behind. And if that poorly aimed light is blinking, I "lose the ground" every few seconds, regaining sight just in time for the next blink.

Proper aim is especially important if the tail-light is extremely bright. Last year, during a 300, I asked a good friend to please shut off one particular tail-light (he had about three) because it was blinding me; I added that if he used that light during the 400 in another two weeks, I was going to cut the cord from the light to the battery hidden in his rear-bag. I wouldn't have, but Bob didn't use that light during the 400 -- thank goodness.

OP -- have your tried contacting the RBA?


Blinking tail-lights: it is my understanding that in most, if not all, states, only emergency vehicles are legally allowed to have a blinking red light on the rear.

Since the rules stated not to use blinking mode while riding with a group, I assmed that blinky lights are legal, but as you stated, a nusance to other riders. I ordered a secon light to keep on steady. Thanks for the tip about aiming them.


After reading the replies so far, I am starting to think I might not completely understand what I am getting myself in for. I have ridden several centuries this year )band did quite a few of them last year. I have never flatted (knock on wood) or had a mechanical (still knocking). I hadn't planned on taking 4 spare tubes, 4 CO2's, etc, but it sounds like I should be!

I can't fit all of that in the packs I currently have. The wife is already unhappy with my expendatures, so could someone recommend an inexpensive rear rack and bag? I really liked the looks and description of the Arkel Tailrider, but it is out of my price range for now. If I decide to do 200K, 300K, 400K, and 600K, I'll go for better bags, but right now, cheap is king.


"You must show spare bulbs and batteries when asked."

That's from the dark ages. But if you're actually riding at night, a spare headlight is prudent- one of the ones that uses 2- AA's is good for that (and not so good for actually riding with!). And if you're using batteries, you obviously want spare batteries anyway.

I have a headlamp (Petzl Tikka Plus 2). Do you think that would be suitable for a backup or should I invest in a second mounted headlight?

Thanks EVERYONE for the input!

Jim

I have a headlamp (Petzl Tikka Plus 2). Do you think that would be suitable for a backup

Yes.

But more important - I would suggest that you always have a headlight when riding at night - to read your cue-sheet, read your bike comouter, read your GPS, read road-names, and so on.

...After reading the replies so far, I am starting to think I might not completely understand what I am getting myself in for. I have ridden several centuries this year )band did quite a few of them last year. I have never flatted (knock on wood) or had a mechanical (still knocking). I hadn't planned on taking 4 spare tubes, 4 CO2's, etc, but it sounds like I should be!

I can't fit all of that in the packs I currently have. The wife is already unhappy with my expendatures, so could someone recommend an inexpensive rear rack and bag? I really liked the looks and description of the Arkel Tailrider, but it is out of my price range for now. If I decide to do 200K, 300K, 400K, and 600K, I'll go for better bags, but right now, cheap is king....

Your incidence of flats is going to be the same on a brevet as on any other ride you do. I only carry two tubes, 4 Co2 cartridges and a patch kit (even on a 1200k). I go lighter than many though. On 1200ks I throw tubes and CO2 cartridges and a tire in my drop bags to supplement in case I have to use them. Many 600k's offer drop bags as well. You are going to have to decide what your comfort level is in bringing extra stuff. Remember, you're going to have to carry all that stuff. I bet by on 1000-1200ks with a seatpost mounted rack and bag. There are as many ways to carry things as there are people doing brevets.

So if I am using my Planet Bike Blinky Superflash Tail Light (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KBEH1W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00), it has to be set to "steady" mode and if I want a flashing light, I need a second tail light, correct?
Bike inspections are common enough that one should expect them. In practical terms, it appears that the rear light has to be steady only during the inspection. Technically, the light has to be attached to the bicycle (not to a seat bag, for example).


Since I may possible be riding after sunset, it's considered night, correct? So I need reflective vest and ankle bands?
Correct. Keep in mind that the 200k are intended to be preparation/practice for longer rides. And, the idea is that even for such "short" rides, you might end-up riding after dark (or in the rain). It appears that as long as you have something, it doesn't have to be "the best" to pass inspection.


I was looking at a Nathan Streak Reflective Vest (http://www.amazon.com/Nathan-Streak-Reflective-Vest/dp/B001IBJ1CS/ref=pd_sim_sg_2), but I don't know if that is what would be best. What do experienced Ultra cyclists wear?

I like these ankle straps (I use the white ones). I got positive comments about them on a rando ride.

http://www.jogalite.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.productsgroup&cat=14

I use an ancient Jog-a-light vest. I'm looking for something that packs smaller (like a "Sam Browne" belt).


I have a headlamp (Petzl Tikka Plus 2). Do you think that would be suitable for a backup or should I invest in a second mounted headlight?
The headlamp fails the "mounted (to the bike") requirement. The Tikka is light enough that it should not contribute to "Shermer's neck. It probably isn't bright enough to navigate by. I used one to be able to read cue sheets in the dark (I turned it on when I needed to do that).

...I have a headlamp (Petzl Tikka Plus 2). Do you think that would be suitable for a backup or should I invest in a second mounted headlight?...

Just to give you another perspective on headlamps, I never wear a headlamp on (1000k+)long events. Mainly do to the risk of Shermers neck. I don't put any extra weight on my head. Headlamps are getting much lighter than they used to be and a lot of people use them because they are convenient but for me the risk of a dnf because I can't hole my head up isn't worth it.

how do you read your cue sheet without a helmet light? I guess if you average 20mph and don't ride at night there is no need. I use the CSPS (cue sheet positioning system) and need to be able to see the cues.

To the OP, the longest learning curve I had was with lighting. Now I have a dyno front light. In the back, I have a dyno taillight and a battery powered light that I use on flash. I went through a scary 400k where it rained and I had one light fail due to water and the other light fail due to an electronics problem that I would have discovered if I had used it longer. I figure it was worth the ~$400-500 I have spent on my current system just to avoid any more rides like that one. So it pays to use lights even if you don't think you need them.

The reflective gear sold by RUSA is pretty good. I like their ankle bands the best because they stretch. They do get worn out after a couple of seasons though.

how do you read your cue sheet without a helmet light? I guess if you average 20mph and don't ride at night there is no need. I use the CSPS (cue sheet positioning system) and need to be able to see the cues.

I'm not so fast I can do all my brevets in the daylight by any means. I ride at night quite a bit, actually I love riding at night. I think it's my favorite time to ride. Like I said above I have a second led light that I mount on my handlebar. I just pull it off it's mount if I need to read my route slip or look at a street sign at night. Not a big deal. cue sheet positioning system? I thought you were a gps guy

You can use the blinking taillight when you're riding alone in North America, but you should have it on steady if you're in a group. It's very distracting to the rider behind to have a very bright flashing red light in their face when it's pitch-black. If you ever ride in France or Germany, you will find that flashing lights on bikes are illegal. You can use the blinking red taillight in the steady setting at Paris-Brest-Paris; I did and passed the equipment inspection.

For the headlight, I would switch out the USB-recharged LED light for a battery-powered LED light and just carry extra AA batteries, and/or even a second LED light that fits into the same holder. For a 200, you can skip the extra light; you won't be riding in the dark that long, unless you're riding in November. Even if you're using a real lighting system with Dynohub, still have the small LED light. It's hard to read a map or route sheet at night off a generator-driven front light! The spare bulb is for headlights that use spare bulbs, so if you're using a dynohub with halogen light, carry one or two spare bulbs in a plastic film canister packed with cotton balls (uh, what's a film canister? Sorry, try the little plastic box that holds the tube repair kit!).

Luis

Blinking tail-lights: it is my understanding that in most, if not all, states, only emergency vehicles are legally allowed to have a blinking red light on the rear.
As far as I can tell, not many US states have a legal prohibition against flashing red rear bicycle lights. As far as I can tell, no US state has a practical prohibition against flashing red rear bicycle lights.

The official randonees in the US adhere to the French organization rules. Flashing red lights are prohibited in Europe (certainly, they are prohibited in Germany). Thus, the French organization rules comply with what is legal in France/Europe.

Keep in mind that the RUSA events are preparatory/practice rides for PBP (one needs to keep that in mind to understand why the rules are what they are).

The bike inspection thing is kind of interesting. In the almost 20 yrs I've been doing brevets the only time I've ever had my bike and my reflective gear inspected was at the half dozen 1200k's I've done. And even then it was quite cursory. Yep, that's a bike. ;) At PBP look at what passes for lights. I'm sure this is probably very dependent on the individual RBA's. It is best to be prepared either way. We do want to be as safe as possible out there.

Yeah, in my experience, most of the bikes I see on the 200's don't even have lights mounted. The top guys just rip out the distance in under eight hours, so if they start at 7 am when it's light, they're done before 3 pm.

Seems to me the UMCA and ultra-cycling events are more stringent. I was looking into doing the Furnace Creek 508 next year (fixed gear divison, of course!), and was surprised to see what lengths they go to for the night portion: reflective tape all over the bike, PBP-level lighting, no proceeding at "night" (6 pm until 7 am) without the following car right behind you, and it's equipped with special flashing lights on the roof in addition to all its other lighting. I can't believe how anal these guys are! Oh well, them's the rules...

Luis

Yeah, in my experience, most of the bikes I see on the 200's don't even have lights mounted. The top guys just rip out the distance in under eight hours, so if they start at 7 am when it's light, they're done before 3 pm.
A 200k is 125 miles (in real units). That's a bit more than a century. The lights and stuff start becoming actually necessary for the 300k+ rides.

The bike inspection thing is kind of interesting. In the almost 20 yrs I've been doing brevets the only time I've ever had my bike and my reflective gear inspected was at the half dozen 1200k's I've done. And even then it was quite cursory. Yep, that's a bike. ;) At PBP look at what passes for lights. I'm sure this is probably very dependent on the individual RBA's. It is best to be prepared either way. We do want to be as safe as possible out there.
Interesting. While they didn't inspect stuff that closely, they verified that I had the stuff before I was signed-in (they can see I'm wearing reflective stuff at 4:00AM).

... I was looking into doing the Furnace Creek 508 next year (fixed gear divison, of course!), and was surprised to see what lengths they go to for the night portion: reflective tape all over the bike, PBP-level lighting, no proceeding at "night" (6 pm until 7 am) without the following car right behind you, and it's equipped with special flashing lights on the roof in addition to all its other lighting. I can't believe how anal these guys are! Oh well, them's the rules...

If you decide to do it let me know. I might be able to help you out with some logistics. I've done that race 9 times.

cue sheet positioning system? I thought you were a gps guy
I don't even have an odometer. I am thinking about a gps, and have followed people with gps, but I like to use a cue sheet

Seriously Lonnie?? I don't know how long you've been doing this but poor equipment choices is hardly on the top of the list for DNF'ing. You're going to tell me that 23mm or 25mm tires are more likely to flat than bigger tires???

PS, If you're talking about a well maintained bike, then we are more in agreement. I have seen people go out on poorly maintained bikes but that is a rarity.

Is this Kevin? Well, I have only been randonneuring since 2006 and I became an RBA in 2007. But, I have been organizing long distance events (double centuries) since 2003 and have been riding 200+ mile events since the late 80's. That said, in my region many DNF's seem to come with the use of "skinny RACING tires". Not specifically 23's or 25's but super lightweight tires that seem a little fragile, or a poorly maintained bike which can include: thin used up tires, worn cables, bad shifting which leads to drive failures. I have also seen "low spoke count racing wheels" where a single broken spoke is enough to disable the bike for the rider. The other item I mentioned is not enough spares. I have DNF'ed riders for no lights (when their primary light failed) and no reflective gear when they ended up finishing later than they thought because of excessive mechanicals (often many flats) or other reasons. I have never DNF'ed a rider because they paced themself poorly, only because they or their bike were unprepared.

Riders like yourself may experience a different result because of your equipment, pacing and nutrition choices, which are based on your own methods and experience. I would not try and convince you of anything that you have already established that works for you. The OP does not have that experience yet and my advise is general and based on observations at not only my events, but other events that I have attended.

Personally I have had too many issues when riding on 23c tires, perhaps because my weight is 185 lbs. I now ride 25c tires on my double century bike (the Pegoretti) and 28c tires on my long distance bike (the Co-Motion). They are either a Bontrager Hardcase or a Gatorskin type tire, something with a more durable carcass. My bikes are tuned and ready to ride. I rarely experience mechanicals on my rides. I carry spares for many things and often find myself assisting other riders who are less prepared. I carry 2 spare tubes, a patch kit, an inflator with 3 cartridges and a pump.

In May I rode a 400k in Oregon where I had 4 flats. My last cartridge failed and I had to use the mini pump. It also wasn't working properly and I could only get 40 psi in the tire. After the next flat 25 psi was all that I could acheive with the pump. 4 flat tires and 2 different inflator failures, with this set of unlikely circumstances I still finished the ride in mid-pack. This is totally uncommon but this type of thing has happened to me several times over the years. I just do not want to DNF after all the effort to try and finish.

I suspect that we agree on more things than we disagree on. We are all, after all, individuals with different methods and equipment. My advice on based on my experience. Others who have had a different experience may offer that advice which is equally valid.

I have never DNF'ed a rider because they paced themself poorly, only because they or their bike were unprepared.

???

People who DNF due to poor pacing DNF themselves (that is, they quit). Poor pacing could also cause them to finish but not within the allotted time.


Personally I have had too many issues when riding on 23c tires, perhaps because my weight is 185 lbs. I now ride 25c tires on my double century bike (the Pegoretti) and 28c tires on my long distance bike (the Co-Motion). They are either a Bontrager Hardcase or a Gatorskin type tire, something with a more durable carcass. My bikes are tuned and ready to ride. I rarely experience mechanicals on my rides. I carry spares for many things and often find myself assisting other riders who are less prepared. I carry 2 spare tubes, a patch kit, an inflator with 3 cartridges and a pump.

I think that one has to classify flats as something other than "mechanicals". Flats are the most common issue that people will have and it's fairly likely that they could have multiple flats. Many people use 23 mm tires for thousands of miles without getting flats. I would suspect that spoke failures are the most common mechanical failure (maybe, matched with broken cables) but the incidence of that failure is much, much less.


In May I rode a 400k in Oregon where I had 4 flats. My last cartridge failed and I had to use the mini pump. It also wasn't working properly and I could only get 40 psi in the tire. After the next flat 25 psi was all that I could acheive with the pump. 4 flat tires and 2 different inflator failures, with this set of unlikely circumstances I still finished the ride in mid-pack. This is totally uncommon but this type of thing has happened to me several times over the years. I just do not want to DNF after all the effort to try and finish.
It's interesting/unusual that your pump didn't really work.

Is this Kevin? Well, I have only been randonneuring since 2006 and I became an RBA in 2007. But, I have been organizing long distance events (double centuries) since 2003 and have been riding 200+ mile events since the late 80's. That said, in my region many DNF's seem to come with the use of "skinny RACING tires". Not specifically 23's or 25's but super lightweight tires that seem a little fragile, or a poorly maintained bike which can include: thin used up tires, worn cables, bad shifting which leads to drive failures. I have also seen "low spoke count racing wheels" where a single broken spoke is enough to disable the bike for the rider. The other item I mentioned is not enough spares. I have DNF'ed riders for no lights (when their primary light failed) and no reflective gear when they ended up finishing later than they thought because of excessive mechanicals (often many flats) or other reasons. I have never DNF'ed a rider because they paced themself poorly, only because they or their bike were unprepared....

No, not Kevin but you're close. I am bigger (taller) than Kevin. ;) I apologize if I came across a little harsh in my earlier post. Over the years I've seen a lot of bike/equipment snobbery in the rando world and it annoys me. I understand that you didn't mean it that way. Since I bought my current rando bike in 2005 (I can't believe it's that old) I've been forced to run 23's because that's all that will fit. Since then I've done several 1200ks and 4 RAAMs on 23's with no more flats than I got on 25's. I run GP4000's mostly with Michigan ProRace tires mixed in. I replace them before they get anywhere near threadbare.

You hit on the most important point and it doesn't matter what equipment you use. Your equipment needs to be in new to near new condition especially when you get to the longer distances. When I see mechanical failures it's almost always because people start the ride on worn out equipment, be it tires, cables, chains, whatever. In all my years, I've never had a mechanical DNF on any ride. That stems from the fact that my equipment is in good working order when I start the ride.

It's interesting/unusual that your pump didn't really work.
Well, maybe not interesting, I was really pissed off at the time! I always try to have my gear in good working order. A failure of a previously dependable item is very disappointing, especially following the failure of a CO2 inflator. I have had very good luck with Silca pumps in the past. It was a problem with the presta head not sealing properly. I have since replaced it with a Lezyne pump with a hose instead of a head. It should not happen again. I ride many events with no issues whatsoever, but when you ride lots of events every now and then you will have some bad luck. Your level of preparation will determine if you finish those bad luck events or DNF. All of my previous DNF's have been weather (or illness) related and not because of my preparedness.

If you decide to do it let me know. I might be able to help you out with some logistics. I've done that race 9 times.

Thanks, Homey; I will know next March after I've sent in my application. I want to support ride/race organizers who go to the trouble of adding a division for the "real hard men" (are there women who ride fixed on these things? Good for you!) who want to do the event on fixed (NOT single speed!) gears!

Actually, I say "hard men" facetiously, as in some respects, it's actually easier to do these rides on fixed. You don't need to be able to find gears in the dark because there aren't any. You can actually rest while you're grinding up the hills out of the saddle (yeah, there's a trick to it). And best of all, nobody's going to be comparing your time with that of the top guys/gals. If I were on a geared bike, I would be under a lot of social pressure to go as hard as I could. On the fixie, I can ride slow, since nobody expects a fast time from some old guy on a steel foxed gear bike with 32-spoke wheels!

Of course, there are numerous disadvantages, such as those long, fast descents... And if I get invited to ride, my first job will be to build a set of 32-spoke wheels with low-profile alloy rims, as my 28-front/32-rear Deep V's are illegal for Furnace Creek's fixie division! Darn...

Luis

Personally I have had too many issues when riding on 23c tires, perhaps because my weight is 185 lbs. I now ride 25c tires on my double century bike (the Pegoretti) and 28c tires on my long distance bike (the Co-Motion). They are either a Bontrager Hardcase or a Gatorskin type tire, something with a more durable carcass. My bikes are tuned and ready to ride. I rarely experience mechanicals on my rides. I carry spares for many things and often find myself assisting other riders who are less prepared. I carry 2 spare tubes, a patch kit, an inflator with 3 cartridges and a pump.

In May I rode a 400k in Oregon where I had 4 flats. My last cartridge failed and I had to use the mini pump. It also wasn't working properly and I could only get 40 psi in the tire. After the next flat 25 psi was all that I could acheive with the pump. 4 flat tires and 2 different inflator failures, with this set of unlikely circumstances I still finished the ride in mid-pack. This is totally uncommon but this type of thing has happened to me several times over the years. I just do not want to DNF after all the effort to try and finish.


I weigh 175 lbs and I ride 23mm tires all the time. I run mostly Vredestein TriComps; I can get about 7,000 km on the front and 3,500-5,000 km on the rear, so I would imagine that at 185 lbs you would get marginally less, but it's still enough to complete a PBP plus a few other long rides. On a tandem, the rear tire might get 1,500 to 2,000 km before being worn thru, which is why I use a 25mm on the back of the tandem (and still get about the same distance because the tires are not Vredestein TriComps!).

But I would agree that it's foolish to run 200-gram racing clinchers on the back and expect to finish a long brevet. I can get about 1,000 to maybe, maybe 1,500 km of rear-tire use out of a 200-gram racing clincher, which is why I only use them on the front. The Vredestein TriComps are closer to 240 grams, so that extra 40 grams makes quite a bit of difference.

But, sorry, I must admit that I scoff at "experienced" riders who would be foolish enough to carry one of those dumb mini-pumps. I continue to use a full-size frame pump because those things actually work. And it's hard enough getting 100 lbs into a tire using a full-size pump (at least 100 strokes); I can't imagine trying to get that much pressure using one of those useless mini-pumps. I think I counted about 400 strokes once, when I tried using one of those infernal things, and the tire still only reached about 80 lbs...

No, the most important piece of equipment you need, after the bike, is a good floor pump for home use. Then you get another to put in the boot of the car. Then you get a full-size frame pump. Mine is on the seat tube in place of a second bottle cage. If I need to use two bottles, I move the pump (one of those adjustable ones made by Park Tool) to underneath the top tube.

Man, I would never ride without a frame pump, unless I had a service vehicle right behind me.

The Road Morph pump is fairly well-known and well-liked, but I broke the shaft on one of them, and carried another around for 6 months before discovering that the little removable thing on the end had gone missing, rendering it useless. So there's potential issues with anything. My bike came with one of the mini-pumps mounted on it, and I never even tried it, don't know if it worked or not.

Thanks, Homey; I will know next March after I've sent in my application. I want to support ride/race organizers who go to the trouble of adding a division for the "real hard men" (are there women who ride fixed on these things? Good for you!) who want to do the event on fixed (NOT single speed!) gears!

http://sheldonbrown.com/pbp-emily-obrien.html ;)

Emily actually did the 508 on her fixed gear in 2005. I think her time was in the 44+hr range. As far a Kostman and his "rules" go. He went though a retro phase a few years back and came up with those classes. Who cares if you want to run a carbon frame or wheels. I'm surprised he lets you have bar tape on there. ;)

Emily actually did the 508 on her fixed gear in 2005. I think her time was in the 44+hr range. As far a Kostman and his "rules" go. He went though a retro phase a few years back and came up with those classes. Who cares if you want to run a carbon frame or wheels. I'm surprised he lets you have bar tape on there. ;)

Yes, Kostman does seem to have his preferences. I have exchanged emails with him, and I get the impression that he finds high-profile rims to be "ugly." The fixed gear division seems to be an outgrowth of the vintage bicycle division. I would have no problem with the restrictions being limited to only one gear throughout and no aero bars. If you're going to have a service vehicle from Hour 11 onward, it would make sense to at least be able to get a wheel change from your service car in the event of a puncture, rather than to have to stop and lose time for a tube change just because you're not allowed to switch wheels. Everybody else in the race is able to get a wheel change, and they'll be finishing much sooner than the fixies, so I don't understand this one at all!

And I couldn't care less if other fixie competitors were on carbon fiber bikes with disk wheels (I'd still be on my trusted steel Rodriguez street fixie with couplers). The human component on fixed gear bikes is just so much greater than the mechanical component (how fast can you grind up hills on one gear? How fast can your legs spin on a descent?) that the advantage of carbon frames or disk wheels would be pretty insignificant.

At least he doesn't require lock rings (only dumb hipsters who eschew brakes, and clueless officials who have NO IDEA about fixed gears rely on lock rings!), and he allows carbon forks (otherwise, I would have to get R+E to build me a steel fork!) and 23mm tires (there was somebody pushing really hard for a minimum 25mm tire size, I have no idea why! Try finding a Vredestein TriComp in 25mm!). And if the rules have been the same ever since the division's inception, then you can sort of compare times year to year with less influence from technological innovation. And, re-reading the rules, it looks like you can even use carbon fiber rims, as long as they are less than 25mm deep... (I was even thinking of riding the event on my 40-year-old track wheels, tied and soldered, with tubs - would make for faster tire changes, but not sure how rough the roads are...)

Luis

And feeling really badly about having hijacked this post, I will relate all of this hijacking to the original post by saying that the rules are the rules, ya just gotta do whatever you need to do to be in compliance, regardless of how irrational or arbitrary they might seem. Even if they don't check, there's often a good reason for the rule to be there. Makes it fair for everybody.

Luis

I've ridden with him and he's a unique guy. ;) I think he's trying to...actually I don't really know what he's thinking. ;) It really doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but he has specific ideas how the game should be played and it's his game (at least this race). As far as the roads go, some of them are pretty horrible but it depends on what you are used to. The worst sections are in Death Valley and between Baker and Kelso. The later being particularly bad. I'll post a pic later this afternoon to give you an idea. It's like they poured rocks in the asphalt when they laid it and half the asphalt has worn away. I'm not talking pebbles, I'm talking rocks. Or, the rocks were knocked onto the road and melted into the pavement. Otherwise the roads aren't too bad. If you are familiar with desert roads they are on par with most desert roads.

I checked the site and I'm glad the "everyone must use the same crank length" idea didn't make it into the rules. And I don't see the danger in coasting with your feet off the pedals if you've got two brakes. Or why someone couldn't use a flip-flop (both fixed) hub if they're willing to take the time penalty to take off and reattach the rear wheel.

But like you guys said, they make the rules. ;)

And I don't see the danger in coasting with your feet off the pedals if you've got two brakes.

This one is easy. Try taking both feet off the pedals in a geared bike during a long, bumpy, twisty descent, then report back to us how it felt. Now imagine the pedals hitting your ankles at 200rpm as you slide down the saddle after hitting a bump :crash:

Here are a couple picks of the Baker/Kelso road.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/cima-dome-to-baker.jpghttp://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/kelso-cema.jpg

Here is another couple of my favorite 508 pics. Think the 508 will be fun on the fixie you should do it on a tandem! :)
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/DSC_60201.jpghttp://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/FurnaceCreek508-BarnieandMattheaded.jpg

This one is easy. Try taking both feet off the pedals in a geared bike during a long, bumpy, twisty descent, then report back to us how it felt. Now imagine the pedals hitting your ankles at 200rpm as you slide down the saddle after hitting a bump :crash:

I've taken my feet off the pedals during stretches -- there are times when it's prudent, and times when it isn't. Back in the day, bikes commonly had little pegs on the fork for use as footrests.

And feeling really badly about having hijacked this post, I will relate all of this hijacking to the original post by saying that the rules are the rules, ya just gotta do whatever you need to do to be in compliance, regardless of how irrational or arbitrary they might seem. Even if they don't check, there's often a good reason for the rule to be there. Makes it fair for everybody.

Luis

Thanks Luis! I got what I was looking for! If I understand correctly, you need to have the things stated in the rules, but it isn't like an old East German border crossing where I will have to submit to a full inspection and microscopic scrutiny!

Jim

Here are a couple picks of the Baker/Kelso road.

Here is another couple of my favorite 508 pics.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/DSC_60201.jpg

Great pictures; very informative, thanks! Hmm, how bad are the sandstorms? Do riders carry goggles and breathing mask, or is a bandana enough? Or is that just the way the sand blows in a crosswind?

Luis

The winds are the almost always the biggest factor on the 508. There is nowhere to hide from them out in the desert. Sometimes the heat can be bad but there are ways to deal with the heat. The only way to deal with the wind is to ride through it. Generally, the winds tend to go from south to north so you usually have tailwinds for the first two hundred miles and headwinds for the last two hundred miles. For some reason, even if the winds are light there is always a headwind for the last 30 miles from the top of Sheephole to the finish. It can be very demoralizing. Blowing sand is not the norm but it does occur so it's best to be prepared. If the winds start getting up over 30mph expect them. I don't bother with masks or bandana's, some people do. I just put my head down and go but I grew up in the desert. It doesn't bother me. I do use wrap around glasses though. The sand will exfoliate your skin and it will be baby soft when your done! ;) There's always a positive side.

The wife is already unhappy with my expendatures, so could someone recommend an inexpensive rear rack and bag? I really liked the looks and description of the Arkel Tailrider, but it is out of my price range for now. If I decide to do 200K, 300K, 400K, and 600K, I'll go for better bags, but right now, cheap is king.

Craigslist is your friend.

Well, wish me luck!

Tomorrow is the ride. It looks like 100% chance of rain (possible Thunderstorms) at the start, temp about 62°F. After 10 am or so the chance of rain drops down to 60% and the temp will go up to a balmy 64°F. In the afternoon, when I turn back to the North, the wind will kick up to a 15 mph headwind.

So I got the weather going for me!!

I ended up getting a Detours High Tail EXP UL (http://173.254.0.172/store/seat-post-bags/high-tail-exp-ul/) for the ride so I can carry way more stuff than I should take. Funny I ride centuries with 2 waterbottles, a tube, co2, and two tire levers, eating a PB&J at lunch and only drinking water, but looking at 200K I was looking at taking tripple the stuff.

Anyway, after reading multiple posts on what to pack, I am keeping it light. Same as above, but throwing in a raincoat, some extra chamois cream, couple extra tubes and CO2, and some gu. Control points are at gas stations with food, so I am not too worried. Thanks, everyone for the advice.

Jim

Well, wish me luck!

Tomorrow is the ride. It looks like 100% chance of rain (possible Thunderstorms) at the start, temp about 62°F. After 10 am or so the chance of rain drops down to 60% and the temp will go up to a balmy 64°F. In the afternoon, when I turn back to the North, the wind will kick up to a 15 mph headwind.

So I got the weather going for me!!

I ended up getting a Detours High Tail EXP UL (http://173.254.0.172/store/seat-post-bags/high-tail-exp-ul/) for the ride so I can carry way more stuff than I should take. Funny I ride centuries with 2 waterbottles, a tube, co2, and two tire levers, eating a PB&J at lunch and only drinking water, but looking at 200K I was looking at taking tripple the stuff.

Anyway, after reading multiple posts on what to pack, I am keeping it light. Same as above, but throwing in a raincoat, some extra chamois cream, couple extra tubes and CO2, and some gu. Control points are at gas stations with food, so I am not too worried. Thanks, everyone for the advice.

Jim

Good luck! Keep your cue sheet dry. Got a way to fix it to the bike (and keep it from turning to mush in the rain)?

Good luck! Keep your cue sheet dry. Got a way to fix it to the bike (and keep it from turning to mush in the rain)?

Ziplock + binder clip and black tape.

Good luck! I literally rode into a storm on my first 200k. :thumb: