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I sometimes find myself in need of signaling a turn while slowing down for that turn, and it still sometimes seems a bit awkward. I want to brake with both hands, or certainly not just the front, but I also need a hand to signal. In one particular spot, I have a left-hand turn going downhill, so I feel I need to use both brakes. It's a left turn-only lane, with no oncoming traffic (coming from the leg of a T intersection), so there's not much chance of a collision, maybe I don't really need to signal there?
Advice?
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"...maybe I don't really need to signal there?"
-- My own criterion on whether I "need to signal" is the traffic situation around me. I signal as needed to make it easy for others to predict my moves.
Also, I am always consious that my presence on the road affects the public's image of bicyclists. I want the motoring (and cycling) public to see how vehicular cycling is properly done. And particularly to set an example to KIDS.
With standard left-front right-rear cabling, "left-turn" or "slow/stop" hand signals are often impractical / impracticable. Coming out of my local City Hall is a 16 percent descent into a 4-way signallized intersection; to maintain control, I have to keep both hands on the brakes at all times on this short stretch of road.
Unless I am on slippery pavement or a steep descent, I generally use the front brake exclusively, making right-turn signals possible. If I do not need to decelerate sharply, I can use just the rear brake, and make a left-turn signal.
Bottom line: Ideally, one should always use turn signals, but there are many scenarios which can preclude this.
The front brake is the more effective brake, so this would be the one to use if you can only use one, unless you are on slippery terrain. Some people think they might flip their bikes using the front brake, but I've never heard of this happening. I'm sure this has happened, but just keep your weight back, and it is almost impossible to do accidentally.
The front brake is the more effective brake, so this would be the one to use if you can only use one, unless you are on slippery terrain. Some people think they might flip their bikes using the front brake, but I've never heard of this happening. I'm sure this has happened, but just keep your weight back, and it is almost impossible to do accidentally.
I've done it accidentally. It's quite easy actually, squeeze a bit too hard, right over your handlebars you go. I was lucky I had a car to break my fall.
The front brake is the more effective brake, so this would be the one to use if you can only use one, unless you are on slippery terrain. Some people think they might flip their bikes using the front brake, but I've never heard of this happening. I'm sure this has happened, but just keep your weight back, and it is almost impossible to do accidentally.
Its very easy to do either on purpose or accidently. I know, I have the T-shirt
In such situations, I signal early and then return my hands to the bars. If either on-coming traffic or cars behind me seem to suggest that my safety calls for it, I can usually manage a quick repeat hand signal just as I approach or enter the turn (and have already slowed down significantly). I think, too, that one's position in the road ( a la Forrester's Effective Cycling) and slowing down both help to signal your intention.
Who wants to be a millionaire? Just invent a signaling system for bikes--turn signals (rear only I suppose) and a brake light. Hmmm, I'll have to check the Total Geekness thread over in the Commuting forum.
I sometimes find myself in need of signaling a turn while slowing down for that turn, and it still sometimes seems a bit awkward. I want to brake with both hands, or certainly not just the front, but I also need a hand to signal. In one particular spot, I have a left-hand turn going downhill, so I feel I need to use both brakes. It's a left turn-only lane, with no oncoming traffic (coming from the leg of a T intersection), so there's not much chance of a collision, maybe I don't really need to signal there?
Advice?
Yes, it is indeed a tricky proposition to be signaling and braking at the same time, especially if, as others have added, you are going downhill toward the intersection.
This is one of the reason I laugh at the CM bicycle motto: "we are traffic." A car, truck, bus, motorycle, and yes Virginia even an SUV, in this situation, makes its intentions very clear. You have a left turn signal, which can be activated and remain activated without removing your hands from the steering mechanism.
Most bicycles does not have this.
Furthermore a car, truck, bus, motorcycle and yes Virginia even an SUV has brake lights indicating that you are likely to be slowing down or stopping. In fact recent technology allows the brake lights to inform the driver behind them just how HARD the brakes are being used...just a tap? or being jammed on.
I have yet to see a bicycle with brake lights!
roughstuff
Who wants to be a millionaire? Just invent a signaling system for bikes--turn signals (rear only I suppose) and a brake light. Hmmm, I'll have to check the Total Geekness thread over in the Commuting forum.
I HAVE seen turn signal mechanisms, though they weren't very visible. I can't imagine brake lights would be that much harder. Both sure would help those cyclists who ride at night.
roughstuff
I use hand signals to turn but not to brake.
I figure any reason for me to brake should be obvious and equally applicable to any motorists in back of me. I'm visible, but easy to see around. I've put on a few pounds, but hey...
I rarely ride with other cyclists, but it may be a good idea if someone is suckin' your wheel. Sadly, most cyclists I've seen in a pace line don't stop for anything anyway.
If you know how to use the front brake properly, you should not flip your bike while using it. I was running with only a front brake for about three months before I noticed; that is how rarely I used the back one.
I also have the problem of wanting to brake and signal at the same time. I can normally throw one hand up quickly to indicate I'm doing something, but it can be tricky. I have no help to give you.
I am of the opinion if there is a DEDICATED left turn lane, and you're in the smack-dab middle of it. All the motorists I've encountered assume you are turning left so I think you would be OK. I would signal the left on the way down upon your entering of the left-turn lane (if this is practical and safe, might not be knowing that you mentioned the huge grade) before you have to brake. Of course, if it is a huge downhill, you can just ride in the middle of the straight lane on the way to the left turn lane anyway.
Jay
Swap your brake levers so your right hand controls the front brake. Use that brake while signalling with your left hand. <obligatory Sheldon link (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#whichside)>
If you feel the need to not use only the front brake, try the Budbrake (http://www.budbrake.com/index.html) or check out this old thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-44930).
I've done it accidentally. It's quite easy actually, squeeze a bit too hard, right over your handlebars you go. I was lucky I had a car to break my fall.
I stand corrected, but the front brake is definitely the more powerful, because braking tends to put more weight on the front wheel.
I'm with Jay - no need to signal when you're in a dedicated turn lane.
On more general terms - turn signals are overrated. They are but one way to indicate your destination intention. Other methods which are at least as effective are:
Lane positioning. Again, if you are in a dedicated turn lane your destination should be obvious (unless you're in Chicago where, I've been told, a cyclist is allowed to go straight from a right turn only lane). But your lateral position within the lane is also a very good indicator. For example, if your lane goes left or straight, and you're turning left, ride near the left edge. That will make it quite obvious that you're turning left - no need to use a hand signal.
Turning your head. There is something very instinctual about assuming a cyclist will go in the direction of a head turn. If a motorist sees you look back on your left, he will assume you are turning left; if you look back on your right, he will assume you are turning right.
A direction-appropriate head turn combined with appropriate lane positioning is usually more than enough to make it very obvious to others where you are headed. No need to take your hands off the brake levers at all.
Serge
I sometimes find myself in need of signaling a turn while slowing down for that turn, and it still sometimes seems a bit awkward. I want to brake with both hands, or certainly not just the front, but I also need a hand to signal. In one particular spot, I have a left-hand turn going downhill, so I feel I need to use both brakes. It's a left turn-only lane, with no oncoming traffic (coming from the leg of a T intersection), so there's not much chance of a collision, maybe I don't really need to signal there?
Advice?
Braking and signalling is difficult for me too. But I like to try to keep in mind that I'm also signalling for the guy I can't see. The one that would hit me because I didn't see him and let him know what my intentions were.
I don't know, maybe try to brake earlier, signal rapidly more than once in between braking?
I've done it accidentally. It's quite easy actually, squeeze a bit too hard, right over your handlebars you go. I was lucky I had a car to break my fall.
In the book Effective Cycling Forester devotes 3 pages to "Panic Stops" (pp 205-207).
In the EC video they demonstrate fighting forward weight transfer by pushing yourself backward on the saddle, but in the book Forester says the theoretical stopping distance improvement is only about 6% and not worth it, recommending you concentrate on maneuvering and retaining control instead.
Turning your head. There is something very instinctual about assuming a cyclist will go in the direction of a head turn. If a motorist sees you look back on your left, he will assume you are turning left; if you look back on your right, he will assume you are turning right.
This is a good point...there are other things we can do with body language to signal our intentions without signalling. Uh...got that? The quick glance over the shoulder is one. Practice this in a safe area to be sure you maintain your line and don't drift into traffic!
It helps some people if they put their left hand on their left leg when glancing backward.
I try to signal early and briefly, but I too find myself in the position of not being able to hand-signal while braking. In addition to using lane position and turning my head to check for conflicts prior to changing position, I sometimes get out of the saddle and shift my body toward the inside of the turn (in advance), sometimes with my knee pointed in the direction of my turn. Think of how motorcycle racers look going into a turn. I don't know how effective this is, but I think it looks fairly obvious that I'm *not* going straight.
If you know how to use the front brake properly, you should not flip your bike while using it. I was running with only a front brake for about three months before I noticed; that is how rarely I used the back one.
I also have the problem of wanting to brake and signal at the same time. I can normally throw one hand up quickly to indicate I'm doing something, but it can be tricky. I have no help to give you.
I know how to use a front brake, its the only brake I have considering I ride a fixed gear. The fact of the matter is if you get confronted with a situation where you have to stop quickly and your first reaction is to squeeze on your front brake, endo time!
Proper braking form is to apply gentle pressure to both brakes, it'll make for smoother braking and also increase the life of your brake pads.
In the book Effective Cycling Forester devotes 3 pages to "Panic Stops" (pp 205-207).
In the EC video they demonstrate fighting forward weight transfer by pushing yourself backward on the saddle, but in the book Forester says the theoretical stopping distance improvement is only about 6% and not worth it, recommending you concentrate on maneuvering and retaining control instead.
Yes indeed, my problem was that my brake seized. I was talking to my friend about stopping in emergency situations and we both agreed that slamming on your brakes is just going to slow down your impact with whatever is trying to kill you and that the best bet is going to be an "escape vector".
I'm with Jay - no need to signal when you're in a dedicated turn lane.
Turning your head. There is something very instinctual about assuming a cyclist will go in the direction of a head turn. If a motorist sees you look back on your left, he will assume you are turning left; if you look back on your right, he will assume you are turning right.
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A direction-appropriate head turn combined with appropriate lane positioning is usually more than enough to make it very obvious to others where you are headed. No need to take your hands off the brake levers at all.
Serge
I agree about the dedicated lane.
As far as turning your head goes, I agree a quick glance backward might not be too much of a problem, but the fact remains that now, you are taking your eye off the road in front of you---which is, after all, where you are going---at the very time you need it the most.
This was the whole reason why vehicles got turn signals, brake lights, and mirrors..to minimize all the contortions you have to go thru otherwise.
roughstuff
When I was a kid (mid 1960s), I had a cruiser bike that had turn signals and brake lights.
I sometimes find myself in need of signaling a turn while slowing down for that turn, and it still sometimes seems a bit awkward. I want to brake with both hands, or certainly not just the front, but I also need a hand to signal. In one particular spot, I have a left-hand turn going downhill, so I feel I need to use both brakes. It's a left turn-only lane, with no oncoming traffic (coming from the leg of a T intersection), so there's not much chance of a collision, maybe I don't really need to signal there?
For your own edification and amusement, you may want to check the local legal code. For example, in the Seattle legal code (http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=bicycle+signal&S3=&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=CODE1&d=CODE&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=4&Sect6=HITOFF&f=G), hand signals are required for the full 100' before a turn... "unless during the last one hundred feet (100') both hands are needed to control or operate the bicycle." Good thing this clause is included, or cyclists would all be either (A) in violation of law, or (B) seriously injured. Braking signals are also required, but it is ambiguous as to whether this exemption covers braking.
The Washington State legal code appears to offer no such exemption (http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=46.61.758&fuseaction=section).
In terms of practical law enforcement and good bicyclist behavior, I think common sense probably does just fine. Signal as you can and/or feel you need to in order to be sure that no car accidentally runs you down. If they intentionally run you down, there's probably not much you can do about it.
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