Classic & Vintage - 21.1 Quill Stem on an old Peugeot?

Hi,

I'm currently reassembling a Peugeot frame I bought a couple of years ago as a single speed into a fully geared bundle of fun.

Having removed the handlebar stem I found that the System Ex 1" replacement I have was too big (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/systemex-quill-stem-silver-prod26390/).

Having looked around the internet and measured the old quill I think it needs a 21.1 quill. Is this usual/does it seem right for an old Peugeot? The rest of the internet seems to suggest the 21.1 was generally an American thing.

If that does sound right does anyone have any advice finding one?
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2534
That's the best I can find, which would suit the 25.4 Nitto drop bars I have, though if there's a chance of finding one somewhere in Britain that would be pretty cool.

Thanks for all your help.

Some Peugeot mtn bikes have a 21.1mm stem. It would help to know your model.

,270069

It's a Lynx according to the frame, not sure what other info I can get from it.

I can't address the 21.1 question, but you should realize the stem you linked to, at SJS, has a quill diameter 22.2 mm. Most French bikes take 22.0

That's a mtn bike frame. Nothing beats direct measurement, so you want to measure inside the steering tube. Likely 21.1mm or .833" since that's what your stem is, but you want to measure the steerer ID.

Yeah just measured the inside, seems to be 22.0. What's my best option for getting my hands on one of these? There are pretty slim pickings on eBay, found this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philippe-stem-85mm-reach-22-0mm-quill-25-4mm-clamp-diameter-used-/160870662540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2574a3818c#ht_500wt_716

but nothing else with the 25.4 clamp I need.

One option while a bit pricey is use 22.0 quill to 1 1/8th adapter which would alloy you to run most modern bar stem setups.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/French-bicycle-stem-quill-adapter-for-22-0-threadless-/230842566324?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35bf4a06b4

One option while a bit pricey is use 22.0 quill to 1 1/8th adapter which would alloy you to run most modern bar stem setups.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/French-bicycle-stem-quill-adapter-for-22-0-threadless-/230842566324?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35bf4a06b4

Did see that, though, vainly, I'd rather find a quill stem for the look.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATAX-Stem-100mm-clamp-25-4mm-insertion-20mm-for-Peugeot-Road-Track-Fixed-Gear-/110938547980?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19d473e70c#ht_19647wt_1097

I found this, which seems perfect though in researching for this I've heard a lot about the AVA death stem and Atax's have been mentioned in the same breath, not always positively...

Could anyone tell me for sure if that Atax would be suitable? The old quill was 21.1mm but by my measurement the steerer itself is 22.0mm. The clamp needs to be 25.4 for the bars I have. The Atax seems to fit everything, and is currently my cheapest option, or am I missing something?

Another thought: I've seen a fair bit about sanding down 22.2s to fit the 22.0 tube. Anyone know how easy is it to do? Would it be a simpler solution, seeing as I have the 22.2 System Ex stem?

Piece of cake. Actually file it down with a medium file first, in a spiral fashion. Then sand it to 22.0. Maybe half hr to full hour work. Only applies to aluminum quills. If you are willing to do this then is gives you the world of choices.

Atax stems are in my experience in another league than AVA stems. Some of the AVA stems' problems had to do with being incorrectly specced a tiny bit too small for the steerer, if I recall correctly. Personally I would go for an Atax. Sanding down cylindrical objects is definitely possible, though you need to keep a keen eye on the roundness. If you wind up with an elliptical shape you will reduce the contact area between stem and steerer to a fraction, significantly increasing stress in the stem.

Piece of cake. Actually file it down with a medium file first, in a spiral fashion. Then sand it to 22.0. Maybe half hr to full hour work. Only applies to aluminum quills. If you are willing to do this then is gives you the world of choices.

I think the one I have is alloy, so is sanding not an option?

Also to be honest, with my lack of expertise I may bite the bullet for now and get the Atax one from eBay. I wouldn't want to risk getting the sanding wrong and setting myself back further.

My Peugeot mountain bike takes a standard 22.2mm quill stem. The French had switched to standard sizing by the time mountain bikes were invented.

Atax stems are in my experience in another league than AVA stems.

Yeah? Glad I read this, I almost took one out of my PUG confusing it for the AVA.

Nothing wrong with a vintage ATAX stem seems like it would be a good match for Pugs if its the size you need.

I think the one I have is alloy, so is sanding not an option?

Also to be honest, with my lack of expertise I may bite the bullet for now and get the Atax one from eBay. I wouldn't want to risk getting the sanding wrong and setting myself back further.

You can just sand. Start with course sandpaper. Tape off where you want to stop sanding. Wrap the sandpaper around the stem and start turning.

I'm still thinking it's a 22.2 and that the steerer just needs to cleaned out. What's the serial number?

What stem was removed from it?

I'm still thinking it's a 22.2 and that the steerer just needs to cleaned out. What's the serial number?

What stem was removed from it?

Serial number is Y810 44631.

The stem that came out is printed with 21.1

I'm coming round to the idea of sanding till it fits.

Is there a chance it's a post-sell-out peugeot? I cant tell from the pics as I am not super up on my Pug history. However, if it's a ProCycle Pug, it's surely possible that it is, in fact, a 21.1 stem.

Atax stems are in my experience in another league than AVA stems. Some of the AVA stems' problems had to do with being incorrectly specced a tiny bit too small for the steerer, if I recall correctly. Personally I would go for an Atax.

The main design fault with 1970's AVA stems had to do with a lack of stress relieving on the expander slot, along with an insufficient amount of aluminum in the casting in this same area:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/AVA_1.jpg

Sometimes, the aluminum would fail higher up. Given time and a loose expander wedge, a rider would then wind up with the split seen here:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/AVA_3.jpg

A wise rider would remove these gradually-loosening bars for inspection (and found the damage), but some mechanics might simply tighten the binder bolt instead, not realizing the cause of the jiggle. What's worse, tightening the binder bolt would temporarily jam the split stem back together, resulting in the perception that the stem is in one piece.

This later AVA from the 1980's has a beefier design, but it has a graduated slot instead of a relief hole:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/AVA_5.jpg

Ironically enough, the AVA stem example that Sheldon Brown uses frequently on his website is a 1950's-era AVA spearpoint stem, which - though similar in appearance to the 1970's units - are superior in quality. Though these do not have a relief hole either, the quality of the aluminum generally prevents cracking on these:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/ava_spearpoint.jpg

As for Guidons Philippe/ATAX stems, they're not immune either - mainly the top-end versions:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/atax_crackedstem_1.jpg

In my search for another stem, I contacted Andrew Musi at Yellow Jersey, who told me all I needed to know:


"We once had a shoe store XRay machine here and I can tell you those stems were cast badly with voids more often than not.
Many failures with injuries."

Granted, I know the later low-end Peugeots came with ATAX stems as well, but it seems as if the cheaper examples were cast to be a bit more robust, even if not as pretty (see top stem in photo below). Also note that the later stems also changed to wedge type from the cone expander:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/atax_stems_1.jpg

Hope this gives a bit of insight. I wouldn't hesitate to use one of the lower-end ATAX stems if I were to ride a certain bike extensively; likewise, I would also use an earlier AVA. I know Sugino made some 22.0 stems as well, but they're rather unusual to find (and unless you're working on a top-end LeJeune or Peugeot PY10, there's no real reason to dig up a Cinelli 22.0. Cinelli 22.0's were indicated by a small divot on the quill; they were not marked as such in any other way).

-Kurt

Great insights Kurt! I knew there were issues, but not what they were. Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed explanation.


thrifty bill

Piece of cake...

True Dude... Don't be afraid.... Bastard file, heavy grit sand paper... Then lighter... Piece of cake....

I bow down to Cudak's superior knowledge. Marvellous post.

Glad to provide the details. For the record, I just cross-posted it to my blog, and - in the process - added some additional notes about the designs; particularly AVA's dual vs. single-slotted quills:

http://theheadbadge.blogspot.com/

-Kurt

To the OP, you might want to wipe out the top inch or two of your steerer, check to see if it has corrosion and rust, and take sandpaper and remove the crap. In case the crap itself it tricking your measurement. As somebody above suggested.

Regarding sanding vs filing quillls . . . . Cudak888's last stem shown illustrates why it's sometimes better to file first than just "sand" because you would not want to sand aluminum that already has a lunar-like pock-marked surface -- ineffective and too much work.

BTW French stems with 22.0 quills AND 25.4mm bar-clamps are NOT rare. Of the hundreds of French stems I've pulled and carefully examined, I'd guess-timate some 40% had 25.4mm bar clamps here in my part of North America. What IS rare is eBay sellers who can regularly produce competent listings of said stems with full and accurate specs.

French stems tend to have a narrow bar clamp area horizontally, with sharp lips on either side, and one frequently finds that they have bitten into the handlebar on both sides after prolonged use. So it's a good idea to slightly file off or radius the lip around the circumference on each side of the bar-clamp before an install. Or better yet find a non-French stem and convert it by sanding/filing, ha ha -- personally I'd go find a Nitto stem made for Specialized mtb's, with a bit of rise.