Touring - Ultralight Evangelism.

There are a growing number of tourists that are using ultralight backpacking gear and combinations of old fashioned saddle bags, small rear panniers and the newer bikepacking bags on bikes that are anything but traditional tourers. So if you have a setup you'd like to share, post a few pictures and give us some highlights of your gear and tours. If you are still struggling up hills with 4 x panniers and a handlebar bag and have questions please post too. Here are some examples that have been previously posted.

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Title edited to indicate a measure of irony.

I have been tinkering with ultralight touring for a while now and have been doing it in stages. I am not sure where the line is between heavy, medium, light, and ultralight, but I have probably done the range.

I started with maybe 45 or 50 pounds of gear on my first tour (TA). The range is because the weight varied on the tour due to adjusting the gear list along the way.
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Heavy (50#)

I worked my way to about 30 pounds on the next couple tours.
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Medium (30#)

Then with more careful packing I got to light at 22 pounds.
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Light (22#)

Next was ultralight at 14# and very careful packing.
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Ultralight (14#)

The I did a MTB tour with an even lighter load with just over 10# of gear. This required some gear upgrades and very careful packing. The list on my journal for this trip shows a heavier weight, but it did not include some last minute changes.
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Ultralight MTB 10#

I decided that my limit without missing anything much was probably about 8 pounds with my current gear, but I took a few extras like a nicer camera and GPS to get to 10# on my last trip.

I figure that I can shave my shelter weight by a pound or so if I want to spend on a DWR bivy to replace my current one and on a different tarp. I may do that before my next tour because I think the combo will also be more comfortable especially in wetter weather.

I wrote an article that documents my craziness (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Ultralight) and there are also journals for my trips (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1) as well.

Ultra light is usualy viewed as very uncomfortable, and very expensive.
I don't know about comfort, but as I don't make a lot of money, I would rather send in a student loan payment than buy high dollar gear. Plus I like the way older things look.
here is a rig that I took a five day trip on. It was winter, so did not have to worry that much about skeeters, so had a minimal hammock, BA air core, adventure medical thermal bivy and silk liner. Took my swiss army wood stove on this trip, more hassle than it was worth. It got down to about 28 one night, and all I can say is that I lived. The pockets look kind of deflated, because I was wearing most of the clothing that fit into them.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4108/5437244253_c39b0ea74a_b.jpg

The best thing about this rig was the look on a bike shop owners face when I told him I was 300 miles from home! And when I read a "can I tour on this" thread, I usualy think of this trip.

Four days in Florida, in January on my three speed club style bike. Again a hammock, silk liner bag, alcohol stove and sierra cup, what I was wearing in the pic.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4118/5437318609_e86cc9d0f9_b.jpg

My first longish trip, six days. 180 miles to the Katy trail, then took the trail, train back, then most of the way home. For a first tour it was pretty light, Homemade Hennesy copy, fleece bag(never again), cannister stove, lots of clothing for the ST louis musuem and the like. Interesting thing, found this bike in a shed and rebuilt it, but did not replace the 27 inch tires that were all cracked and hard. No flats or problems! This was not really ultra light, but I am including it because we all have to start somewhere.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4102/5437927044_ee5caf9e46_z.jpg

And this spring, this. These are bags I made, they are in the Florida pic as well. But here, they have a north face wasatch bag, a Eureka zeussII tent, larger than my usual hammock and space blanket, as well as BA air core, sno peak stove with one liter pot, fleece, cold weather hat and gloves, book, first aid, wet wipes, flip flops, headlamp, and other little stuff. This was a shakedown for what I might carry on a month long trip. The bags worked well, but I am currently making some that will fit this load more comfortably, and fit this bicycle better.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7262/7475479840_0a38833636_k.jpg

I guess that part of the fun for me is keeping it cheap. Every bike but the Centurion was found at thrift stores or yard sales and repaired. The Centurion was a NOS 1981 frame I actualy bought.
I don't weigh my stuff, but I guess that it might qualify as very, if not ultra, light. And while I have done trips with four bags, and might again, its more the simplification of not a lot of stuff that appeals to me.

Ultra light is usualy viewed as very uncomfortable, and very expensive.
I don't know about comfort, but as I don't make a lot of money, I would rather send in a student loan payment than buy high dollar gear.

Good point about the cost. FWIW I did a workup of what my gear cost assuming that folks would already have clothing and a few of the items on the gear list. It turned out that my gear at the time cost a bit over $1,000, not including the bike or those items that folks would typically have already. I did a list of reasonable alternatives with a budget in mind and came up with a bottom line of $330. If anyone is interested it, is in my article linked in my previous post. It is a section of that article marked as "Ultralight on a budget".

Good point about the cost... I did a list of reasonable alternatives with a budget in mind and came up with a bottom line of $330. If anyone is interested it, is in my article linked in my previous post. It is a section of that article marked as "Ultralight on a budget".

I like to encourage people considering bike touring (or camping or backpacking for that matter) to not be dissuaded if they cannot afford the latest and greatest. I don't have the latest and greatest of anything, except maybe for my very small little MSR headlamp which is pretty new and pretty great. I have been slowly upgrading my gear over the last 25 years. You should have seen the first time I went backpacking when I was about 11 or 12 years old. I put all the heavy stuff at the bottom of my bag, I had no belt on my pack, I packed WAYYY to much clothing with no regard to the weight, and through it all I still survived.

I still probably tend to packing a little too much. I have been known to give things away on my travels that I found I didn't really need.


Staehpj1, thanks for the link to the article. It's got quite a bit of helpful information.

Good point about the cost. FWIW I did a workup of what my gear cost assuming that folks would already have clothing and a few of the items on the gear list. It turned out that my gear at the time cost a bit over $1,000, not including the bike or those items that folks would typically have already. I did a list of reasonable alternatives with a budget in mind and came up with a bottom line of $330. If anyone is interested it, is in my article linked in my previous post. It is a section of that article marked as "Ultralight on a budget".

I don't think cost needs to be more than with traditional gear, in fact you can save lots of money on the bike and panniers etc and spend the saving on a good lightweight sleeping bag rather than carrying something that weighs 4 lbs. Also some ultralight equipment is very inexpensive, an example would be a pop can cook set. Most of going lightweight, or ultralight, is an attitude adjustment and deciding that you don't need that extra pair of shoes of trousers.

First off, here's my gear list for UL touring. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnGMnzhurASwdDhEVHFaYURpQ0VSdXI1eU91MGRkTlE) Red items were cut last-minute.

I toured on a 29lb steel frame bike with about 11lbs of gear. I used a Sea to Summit e-Vent drysack strapped to my back rack, a small handlebar bag, and a Jandd frame bag. I was more comfortable on tour than I am in my own bed.

What? What did he say?



That's right!

I combined a Hennessey Hammock (http://hennessyhammock.com/) and a Thermarest air mattress (http://www.rei.com/product/830684/therm-a-rest-neoair-all-season-sleeping-pad) and slept like a baby every night for 10+ hours. I had a set of wool clothes that kept me warm and a lightweight fleece summer bag, and I was warm down to 40º with wind on top of Mt. Hurricane, New Hampshire. I traveled 1,400 miles with the same pair of clothes and the same sleep setup night after night, even when staying with family I opted for the hammock.

Here's proof: (I set up a little low that night...)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8306/7894906430_3a3ce1f123.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894906430/)
DSC_0103 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894906430/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Like a baby...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8449/7894344568_f0565b4460_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894344568/)
DSC_1170 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894344568/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

This is the actual size of the hammock, with the rainfly, wound up. It takes me 10 minutes to set up and 15 to put away, since I'm very careful winding up my cords.

My other gear included a comfy fleece jacket, a great raincoat, and a DSLR Camera on my back, in a Camelbak. I took 1,400 pictures over the month and became quite the competent photographer.

Going light for me was more than just reducing the effort on hills, which is great. At 22 years old, though, I can handle 60lbs of touring gear and still put miles in. Ultralight was about letting go of comforts that I was raised with as necessities and appreciating experience as the measure of happiness. Going ultralight let me stop thinking about gear and start thinking about life, and I wouldn't change a thing. Now that it's getting colder, I'll be buying a lightweight down sleeping bag. My goal is to camp for 4-5 days out of a 25L backpack all winter, and of course, bring the camera.

Here's some pictures of my rig:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8147/7662919222_05d8f8cd8d_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7662919222/)
Final Test for 3,000 mile August tour in Northeastern U.S. (Trip in 3 days) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7662919222/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7122/7876251520_fec853ec4c_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7876251520/)
2012 Northeast Bike Tour (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7876251520/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

And one of our campsites:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8309/7894374118_e5abf13284_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894374118/)
DSC_0737 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894374118/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Here's my first cut at UL touring.

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I cut way back from five packs and a bungeed stack on every horizontal surface, weighing in at well over 50 pounds of stuff. The load above weighs 17 pounds, and 4 of that is from the old panniers. Next step will be to ditch the panniers and go with silnylon bags, after the panniers wear out or find a new home. (The rig above just completed 4400 miles on the Northern Tier, including wet spring snow in the North Cascades, so I took some bulky insulation and weather protection. The load wasn't quite so stuffed after I mailed some things home in Montana.)

The thread title got my attention, figuring this would be a negative thread complaining about ULers who tend to annoyingly tell everyone else what they're carrying is too heavy and all wrong. It's hard not to do that. When you've just discovered a method that has greatly improved your life, you want to tell everyone about it and you don't understand when people are resistant to change. You know what they say about unsolicited advice--it only benefits the person giving it.

I agree that UL can be cheaper if done in stages, with used gear, replacing old gear worn out, etc. Mostly, for me, it was finding out what to leave behind, and that costs nothing. I also agree that the simplicity is appealing, too, and being able to pitch and strike camp in minutes.

The thread title got my attention, figuring this would be a negative thread complaining about ULers who tend to annoyingly tell everyone else what they're carrying is too heavy and all wrong. It's hard not to do that. When you've just discovered a method that has greatly improved your life, you want to tell everyone about it and you don't understand when people are resistant to change. You know what they say about unsolicited advice--it only benefits the person giving it.


On our tour, my buddy Jimmy had two Ortlieb back rollers loaded to the max with stuff. By the standards of this forum, he was ultralight, but I made fun of him a lot for carrying a pair of sneakers AND a pair of crocs, and for the weight on his bike.

However, then we'd be at the grocery store and my UL bags were dumbfounded by the angles and size of a can of beans... and I had to put them in his ortliebs. We all teased each other a lot.

and 4 of that is from the old panniers. Next step will be to ditch the panniers and go with silnylon bags, after the panniers wear out or find a new home.

I like using lightweight drybags instead of panniers, but did find that the silnylon ones were a bit flimsy for my tastes. Mine were Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil Dry Sacks and were pretty shot after an abbreviated Southern Tier (San Diego to Pensacola). I have since gone to Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sacks and think they will hold up better at only a small weight penalty.

Bottom line either go a bit heavier than the ultrasil ones or be very careful to baby them. Based on my experience with them, you will either need to treat them very gently or be prepared to patch them frequently.

On our tour, my buddy Jimmy had two Ortlieb back rollers loaded to the max with stuff. By the standards of this forum, he was ultralight, but I made fun of him a lot for carrying a pair of sneakers AND a pair of crocs, and for the weight on his bike.

However, then we'd be at the grocery store and my UL bags were dumbfounded by the angles and size of a can of beans... and I had to put them in his ortliebs. We all teased each other a lot.

One of the things that I am working on is a silnylon bag that would hang from the top tube, and hold the nights grocerys, or even a couple days worth. Extra room is a problem, particularly for me, someone who has been known to balance a chocolate cake on the handlbars for fifteen miles...I like to eat, its one of the reasons I ride.

Oh, and on the hammock. I have one in my bedroom. seriously. cannot be beat for comfort, but my girlfreind does not sleep over much since I did it.

Hopefully this is not seen as going off topic, but I have been considering a hammock set-up and have so far not moved on that SIMPLY because I know some campsites don't allow you to tie stuff to trees. Has that been much of a problem for anyone who has used a hammock?

I think this is related because if I can get away with a hammock I can do away with the tent.

I like using lightweight drybags instead of panniers, but did find that the silnylon ones were a bit flimsy for my tastes. Mine were Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil Dry Sacks and were pretty shot after an abbreviated Southern Tier (San Diego to Pensacola). I have since gone to Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sacks and think they will hold up better at only a small weight penalty.

Bottom line either go a bit heavier than the ultrasil ones or be very careful to baby them. Based on my experience with them, you will either need to treat them very gently or be prepared to patch them frequently.

If it's any plus to your theory, I had the e-Vent size medium strapped to the back of my bike all 30 days. I wrenched the bungee straps down as tight as I could every morning, and my tent had plastic hooks, and my fleece had metal zippers. I was careful but not that careful. It got dropped in mud twice by accident, put through the washing machine and dryer three times, and I overloaded it as much as I could the entire trip.

Today, it looks close to new. There are a few permanent stains on the yellow side. Not a single- NOT A SINGLE -stitch looks looser than the day I bought it. There isn't a single scuff anywhere on the inside or outside. The plastic buckles are like new. It doesn't even smell.

Hopefully this is not seen as going off topic, but I have been considering a hammock set-up and have so far not moved on that SIMPLY because I know some campsites don't allow you to tie stuff to trees. Has that been much of a problem for anyone who has used a hammock?

I think this is related because if I can get away with a hammock I can do away with the tent.


We had a set of rules on our tour. Rule #7 was "No Campgrounds." It was a personal challenge. We would use our iPhone's satellite map to find green areas when we were ready. The most we rode for a suitable campsite was 10 miles or so. That's how easy it was to find trees and wild areas away from campgrounds to set up our low-profile shelters. We practiced leave-no-trace in state parks, public parks in the middle of cities, people's side property (what they don't know can't hurt them), abandoned lots, trails, and even a dirtbike track.

One of the things that I am working on is a silnylon bag that would hang from the top tube, and hold the nights grocerys, or even a couple days worth. Extra room is a problem, particularly for me, someone who has been known to balance a chocolate cake on the handlbars for fifteen miles...I like to eat, its one of the reasons I ride.

Oh, and on the hammock. I have one in my bedroom. seriously. cannot be beat for comfort, but my girlfreind does not sleep over much since I did it.

Another option is to carry a very light backpack. Rei makes the Flash 18 that weighs 10 ounces if you take out the pad. Sea to Summit makes the Ultra-Sil Day Pack that weighs 2.4 ounces. They are both great to carry a bit of extra stuff once in a while, but I found that I didn't mind wearing my Flash 18 all day on tour with a few items I want to keep handy or ones that I don't want to leave unattended. It is great for trips to the store and I also use it a bit more heavily loaded for sections where I need to carry extra food or water duie to long distance between restock points.

I have an old EMS backpack that folds inside it's own pocket to the size of a sandwich. it is extremely durable reinforced nylon, and I used it to carry groceries. I'd put a few odd-shaped items in it and then sling it right over my Camelbak, which wasn't that comfortable but did the job for shopping runs before bed.

Another option is to carry a very light backpack. Rei makes the Flash 18 that weighs 10 ounces if you take out the pad. Sea to Summit makes the Ultra-Sil Day Pack that weighs 2.4 ounces. They are both great to carry a bit of extra stuff once in a while, but I found that I didn't mind wearing my Flash 18 all day on tour with a few items I want to keep handy or ones that I don't want to leave unattended. It is great for trips to the store and I also use it a bit more heavily loaded for sections where I need to carry extra food or water duie to long distance between restock points.

Possibly, That is what I have done, but I find that food like bananas and tortillas do better not pressed into a hot sweaty back while riding. Also, pointy items are very uncomfortable in a bag without padding. One of the joys of being able to make your own gear is getting what you personly want. What I want is more like a frame bag that can be packed away or cinched up when not being used.

Hopefully this is not seen as going off topic, but I have been considering a hammock set-up and have so far not moved on that SIMPLY because I know some campsites don't allow you to tie stuff to trees. Has that been much of a problem for anyone who has used a hammock?

I think this is related because if I can get away with a hammock I can do away with the tent.

Once at a state park a ranger told me I could not set it up. All the trees had nails, carvings, and general campsite abuse already, so it seemed silly to me. I just slept on the table with my tarp over me. OTher times at campgrounds I hve simply slept on the ground. would not work in tick season.
Thing about the hammock, stealth camping gets a little easyer, cause you don't need a perfect piece of ground.
I love it when someone talks about the drawbacks of hammocks, when they have never used one. Sure, they might not be as perfect in the desert, but they can be used there or above the tree line as a bivy if there are no structures to use.

I like using lightweight drybags instead of panniers, but did find that the silnylon ones were a bit flimsy for my tastes. Mine were Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil Dry Sacks and were pretty shot after an abbreviated Southern Tier (San Diego to Pensacola). I have since gone to Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sacks and think they will hold up better at only a small weight penalty.

Bottom line either go a bit heavier than the ultrasil ones or be very careful to baby them. Based on my experience with them, you will either need to treat them very gently or be prepared to patch them frequently.

Yes when i use a drysac its the Sea-to-Sumnit eVent compression sack. I chose it because of the heavy grade nylon. the compression straps are also great for attaching the bag to the bag, no bungies or other straps required. Light weight silnylon bags don't do well with repeated strapping to a bike. The bag my Tarptent came in is now held together with Duct Tape.

Yes when i use a drysac its the Sea-to-Sumnit eVent compression sack. I chose it because of the heavy grade nylon. the compression straps are also great for attaching the bag to the bag, no bungies or other straps required. Light weight silnylon bags don't do well with repeated strapping to a bike. The bag my Tarptent came in is now held together with Duct Tape.

Not sure, but I think what I have might be lighter duty than your's. I have the Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sacks with no compression straps. the 20 liter Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sack weighs 2 oz while the 20 liter Sea to Summit eVent Compression Dry Sack weighs 5.9 oz. I am not sure if the difference is just the compression straps and cap or it it is heavier duty material.

It sound pretty cool that you manage to attach it using the compression straps.

Interesting Hammock sites that I used on the 2012 tour:

World's End in Hingham, MA:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8181/7895425056_71a6360b31_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895425056/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895425056/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Fort Knox Picnic Area, with a view of the Penobscot Narrows Bridge in ME:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7895410380_e8e5fd96fc_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895410380/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895410380/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Off the Kancamagus Highway in the White Mountains, NH:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7895383912_116cfc7eb3_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895383912/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895383912/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Public park in Bar Harbor, near some gypsies in ME:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8436/7895400238_091a681966_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895400238/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895400238/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Private property adjacent to Acadia National Park, along the ocean in ME:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7895391282_a796b7ab55_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895391282/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895391282/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Cottage complex in Eastham, Cape Cod, along the beach, MA:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7895419912_a9c5754852_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895419912/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895419912/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

The Green Mountains, along a private lake, VT:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8446/7894062002_5e0c1b178c_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894062002/)
DSC_1128 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7894062002/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr

Adjacent to the Verizon Cell Phone Tower, 2 miles up a dirt road from the highway near Mexico, ME. Max actually tied his rain fly to Jimmy's rain fly:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8457/7895493524_d95c2ee991.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895493524/)
DSC_0768 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895493524/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr



Campgrounds are for pansies!!!

Possibly, That is what I have done, but I find that food like bananas and tortillas do better not pressed into a hot sweaty back while riding.
My thinking has always been that stuff got a gentler ride on my back than on the bike because my legs and body acted as shock absorbers. I'm not sure if that is actually true or not. I do agree it is likely to be hotter though.

Anyway keep us posted on how your project works out for you.

Tortillas, also impossible to carry with my setup... :(

Not sure, but I think what I have might be lighter duty than your's. I have the Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sacks with no compression straps. the 20 liter Sea to Summit eVAC Dry Sack weighs 2 oz while the 20 liter Sea to Summit eVent Compression Dry Sack weighs 5.9 oz. I am not sure if the difference is just the compression straps and cap or it it is heavier duty material.

It sound pretty cool that you manage to attach it using the compression straps.

Yes the eVent sack is pretty tough. I went with it because I liked the toughness and 5.9oz was a big weight saving over my almost 2lb carradice saddlebag. It's easy to attach to a saddle with bag bag loops and a bagman. One strap goes through the saddlebag loops and you pull it tight, then another goes around the Bagman's vertical section and the other straps can be used to tie the bag down around the back of the bagman. It's very sturdy and I'm using about 10L of the 20 L capacity so there's lots of room for carrying extra stuff in an emergency.

Interesting Hammock sites that I used on the 2012 tour:

World's End in Hingham, MA:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8181/7895425056_71a6360b31_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895425056/)
Hammock Camping! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81057494@N03/7895425056/) by Max Roman (http://www.flickr.com/people/81057494@N03/), on Flickr



Excellent pics. I've sometimes thought about hammock camping, but haven't taken the plunge yet. I always worried about finding a couple of suitable trees, particularly at the campsites we pansies sometimes use.

Tortillas, also impossible to carry with my setup... :(

Born and raised in Southern California, I don't think its actualy possible for me to digest food unless it is delivered in a burrito shell;)

Not to reiterate, but using Google Maps on my iPhone, I just put it in satellite view and check for green areas. It didn't fail once across 4 states in 30 days of camping in the northeast. Worst case scenario, I can use my bike frame and front wheel and a few stakes to make a tent out of the rain fly.

I would pose: how hard is it to find level ground with no drainage? That's about how hard it is to find suitable trees, since the width between them can vary greatly with no impediment.

Know what, next time you go touring take 22 feet of paracord. Paracord is a good thing to have anyways so it's not so bad. Spend a couple nights trying to find 2 trees with a diameter bigger than your fist to tie the paracord too. It would be a good indication of how difficult the process is. Remember, a stick on the ground is more than enough to stake out the rain fly. Twigs are strong enough, it's not weight-bearing like a tent stake.

Know what, next time you go touring take 22 feet of paracord. Paracord is a good thing to have anyways so it's not so bad. Spend a couple nights trying to find 2 trees with a diameter bigger than your fist to tie the paracord too. It would be a good indication of how difficult the process is. Remember, a stick on the ground is more than enough to stake out the rain fly. Twigs are strong enough, it's not weight-bearing like a tent stake.

I like the look of Hammocks and might buy one to see what I'm missing.......but they would be useless in Iceland....no trees

...Bottom line either go a bit heavier than the ultrasil ones or be very careful to baby them. Based on my experience with them, you will either need to treat them very gently or be prepared to patch them frequently.

Thanks for the idea.

I know what you mean--once I tried a backpack made of spinnaker cloth to save two ounces over a silnylon version. Within a month, there were at least three ounce of duct tape on it. Lesson learned.

Another issue I'm struggling with, which you've addressed, is why do I have a relatively heavy touring bike for such a light load? But the frame features are nice, I can put on fenders, and it's a comfortable ride. And it's what I own and I don't really want to pay to replace it. It's a quandary.

Excellent pics. I've sometimes thought about hammock camping, but haven't taken the plunge yet. I always worried about finding a couple of suitable trees, particularly at the campsites we pansies sometimes use.

My hammock setup in the desert: http://hennessyhammock.com/images/uploads/astent5465.jpg

Where I tour, hammocks are actually desireable because there are too many trees in many areas, or the terrain is not level enough, for tents. My beef is I just don't find them comfortable. Also, the real hammock nuts carry a lot of gear to make them comfortable, I don't think they are as light as some other options. I am going to try a bridge hammock, if that doesn't work I will probably give up for a while. I notice a lot of the guys who seem really to love them are skinny as hell or clown/acrobats.

I've been doing the ultralite thing since 05, and as part of hiking since '78. Everything about our lives keeps getting more cluttered. Take the advice to carry an iphone to surf for greenspace. I can't imagine needing that in the NE, trees are everywhere, but it is a good idea. It is also extra gear. And everything has more zippers, pockets, thorn proof layers, gears. Disc brakes weigh more. MTBs weigh more. Modern people weigh more, and the standard touring frame weighs more.

Ultralite is actually very traditional. When I worked in a camping shop in the 80s, the lightest tent we sold was for cycle camping, it was assumed cyclist needed minimal gear, but over the years they learned to carry heavy loads.

I don't think my bike looks unusual, I carry 4 bags but they are small, I used 2 racks but they are the original Blackburn aluminum wire racks that weigh very little. I have the range to carry a lot of stuff, but the stuff I carry is ultralite. Works for me. As usual this new craze is being pushed by a new series of products, bikepacking. But the old gear was well worked out, just leave some of it at home, or in the store, and learn the basics of modern camping.

Tortillas, also impossible to carry with my setup... :(

Rolled up and stuck in a jersey pocket?

2012 270234

2010 or 11270235

2007?270236

270237

UL camping site 270238 and another lightweight camping site using panniers 270241

light loads, short trips.

I'm going to spend the winter sewing up a new UL shelter with no-see-um netting.

My hammock setup in the desert: http://hennessyhammock.com/images/uploads/astent5465.jpg

Dan, you really are the man.

There are a growing number of tourists that are using ultralight backpacking gear and combinations of old fashioned saddle bags, small rear panniers and the newer bikepacking bags on bikes that are anything but traditional tourers. So if you have a setup you'd like to share, post a few pictures and give us some highlights of your gear and tours. If you are still struggling up hills with 4 x panniers and a handlebar bag and have questions please post too. Here are some examples that have been previously posted.

270164

270165

270166

270167

Actually Nun, you got it backwards. Before the bike boom, people tour with pretty light weight stuff on their 10 speed bikes. The lowest acceptable gear inches then was only 27". Yeah 27". Now, you need something like 16" or 20" GI or you don't have it low enough. Difference is the weight some people carry these days. I even see people tour cross country in the Rockies with 53 gears!

The so called touring bikes then were not made so heavy and so oversized tubings to resist the heavy loads of the rear panniers. I mean, some bikes sold in the early 80s were weighing not as much as a decent cyclocross bike now. Today, trucks like the LHT or the Raleigh Sojourn seemed to be a necessity. I was told that during the bike boom, this era attracted people from all walks of life to do bike touring and these people practically wanted to carry all the creatures comfort that you can camping and thus, people start carrying more stuff than they need to and bike companies make bikes to resolve issues like overweight panniers causing fish tailing by building heavier touring bikes. Just look at the average North American tourist heading to Mexico or Hawaii on a 1 or 2 week vacation with big 62" linear inches suitcases. I can do that with smaller than 18" carry on or even a small back pack.

Yes, the trend now is moving back to minimalist, just like the trend from aluminum bikes in the mid 90s back to steel now. It's not new, but it's a replay of the old.

I've done a few "fast and light" bike-camping trips. The lightest I've done is around 15 lbs base weight. Still lugging around 3 lbs of panniers though ;)
http://www.ziligy.com/photos/posts/CrossCheckUltralight.jpg

Actually Nun, you got it backwards. Before the bike boom, people tour with pretty light weight stuff on their 10 speed bikes. The lowest acceptable gear inches then was only 27". Yeah 27". Now, you need something like 16" or 20" GI or you don't have it low enough. Difference is the weight some people carry these days. I even see people tour cross country in the Rockies with 53 gears!

The so called touring bikes then were not made so heavy and so oversized tubings to resist the heavy loads of the rear panniers. I mean, some bikes sold in the early 80s were weighing not as much as a decent cyclocross bike now. Today, trucks like the LHT or the Raleigh Sojourn seemed to be a necessity. I was told that during the bike boom, this era attracted people from all walks of life to do bike touring and these people practically wanted to carry all the creatures comfort that you can camping and thus, people start carrying more stuff than they need to and bike companies make bikes to resolve issues like overweight panniers causing fish tailing by building heavier touring bikes. Just look at the average North American tourist heading to Mexico or Hawaii on a 1 or 2 week vacation with big 62" linear inches suitcases. I can do that with smaller than 18" carry on or even a small back pack.

Yes, the trend now is moving back to minimalist, just like the trend from aluminum bikes in the mid 90s back to steel now. It's not new, but it's a replay of the old.

I think the problem is the perception. The bike is a beast of burden on which to, well, burden. Backpacking is different, and I always marveled at how a backpacker could cut their gear weight to 10lbs while cycle touring had a 30-40lb requirement among some members of the community. When I see most touring bikes, I see four backpacks strapped to a frame and I think "What is so important that you had to put all those on?"

I wrote an article that documents my craziness (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Ultralight)

This is a good read... Some nice decision points and the pros/cons of each.

Like the extra ~1 pound for a solo tent vs a bivy and tarp. I could see arguments either way, depending on where you were going and for how long.

Twenty pounds of gear including panniers, a 2-person tent with real mosquito netting, Thermarest, tools and a change of clothes. All on a 19 pound bike.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/Bike%20Trips/PICT1630-1.jpg

About 20-25 ponds of gear on a Peugeot PX10 (20 pounds) 45 years ago. My sleeping bag fills one pannier.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/doug1974tour-1.jpg

As a long-time mountaineers and backpackers we went through the "enlightenment" period a couple of decades ago. The conclusion that I came to after having "been there and done that" is to keep my loads as light as I can, based my objectives, where I'm going, what luxuries I want to take with me, time of year etc.


Evangelism- the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion

Why is it when someone "discovers" something "new" everyone else is doing it wrong? I think a lot of it has to do more with a feeling of elitism. I've seen this in other sports such as skiing. The telemark skiers I know (me included) look down on alpine skiers who have not seen the error of their way. There really is not a wrong way to go on a tour, just different ways.

Actually the same also goes for skiing:)


"It is what we learn after we know it all that counts" John Wooden, UCLA BB Coach

Actually Nun, you got it backwards. Before the bike boom, people tour with pretty light weight stuff on their 10 speed bikes. The lowest acceptable gear inches then was only 27". Yeah 27". Now, you need something like 16" or 20" GI or you don't have it low enough. Difference is the weight some people carry these days. I even see people tour cross country in the Rockies with 53 gears!



Low gears are good, I like them as much as low weight because they make the cycling more fun.

When I got back into cycling about 10 years ago (my mid-life crisis and way cheaper than a porsche) I defaulted to the setup I had on my Claud Butler Majestic back in 1977 which was a saddlebag and a handlebar bag and various racks to strap stuff to.

I love backpacking like I cycle tour, and vice versa. I'm climbing the haunted Glastenbury Mountain in VT this weekend, overnight, with 16 lbs of gear including food, plus a variable water weight.

I mean, put it this way:

You're going to be hot and sweaty. Wear an athletic fabric that repels odor and skip bringing 5 changes of clothes.
You're not going to want to cook. Forego the big pots and settle on a camp stove and easily rehydrated foods like instant potatoes and ramen.
You're on a bike. Bring one extra pair of lightweight shoes.
You're colder at night than during the day. Bring a good sleeping bag and leave sweatshirts and sweatpants at home.
You pass a rest stop every day. Carry 1-2 days worth of food.

Now, obviously these vary depending on what you want from touring, but these generalizations can be accepted by the majority, and the majority doesn't realize it.

I think the problem is the perception. The bike is a beast of burden on which to, well, burden. Backpacking is different, and I always marveled at how a backpacker could cut their gear weight to 10lbs while cycle touring had a 30-40lb requirement among some members of the community. When I see most touring bikes, I see four backpacks strapped to a frame and I think "What is so important that you had to put all those on?"

Actually, this is a very interesting thought, because it is the modern touring bike that is a beast of burden. Most people didn't realize that bikes in the 70s and 80s were well built, but were a bit lighter than the trucks being sold and embraced now. People seem shocked to hear that a nice triple butted steel bike of the mid 80s that can be used for touring weigh no more than 21 lbs or 22. I mean that isn't as light as a Cervelo or a Madone, but it certainly is a lot lighter than the Raleigh Sojourn or decked out LHT. I mean, a low end road bike is about that weight range anyhow.

In the mid 90s, companies were playing tricks with people suggesting that it is the steel bikes that was the beast of burden. Aluminum was the answer -- lower weight and stiff frame makes the best of both worlds plus you can still carry all the junk you want. But then, this is simply not true as well made steel bikes are sometimes the same or lighter than their aluminum counterpart. In the end, steel made a come back and now even Cannondale themselves aren't making anymore T series touring bikes.

People tend to carry more because they want the same home luxuries they expected to be on the campsite. You see families camp and they want the hot bacon and eggs breakfast with espresso or hot coffee. When I was touring with my ex, I went from bare minimum to bloated 4 panniers because we see others doing the hot bacon and eggs with espresso, hot coffee and making waffles or pancakes and she wanted the best. Don't forget the portable cooler we have to bring along and then the contraptions we carry to hang our food up and away from the bears.
I'm not saying that all women cyclists are like that. Some can be as minimalist or more, but those 4 bags have to carry something and that sometimes mean luxury items people will cherish the most. :thumb:

Evangelism- the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion

Why is it when someone "discovers" something "new" everyone else is doing it wrong? I think a lot of it has to do more with a feeling of elitism. I've seen this in other sports such as skiing. The telemark skiers I know (me included) look down on alpine skiers who have not seen the error of their way. There really is not a wrong way to go on a tour, just different ways.

Actually the same also goes for skiing:)


I meant "Evangelism" to be slightly ironic. I do think that less is more in the context of baggage, but I'll still happily talk to people who have 4 x panniers.

Low gears are good, I like them as much as low weight because they make the cycling more fun.

When I got back into cycling about 10 years ago (my mid-life crisis and way cheaper than a porsche) I defaulted to the setup I had on my Claud Butler Majestic back in 1977 which was a saddlebag and a handlebar bag and various racks to strap stuff to.

Low gears are good, but not silly low. I mean with a 30" gear loaded, you can pretty much climb anything up to a 16% grade with a light bike and load. The reason why people need lower gears is because they are carrying too much crap. My CX bike has a 25" GI as low and that's very low in my preference but good to have a bail out gear; 27" would be good enough for me too. What people do not realize is that, it's ok to walk up a hill with the bike and it's probably easier. I mean, it's easier to walk a 21 lbs bike with a 20lbs load than a 38lbs bike with a 50 to 80lbs load! When I suggest to people that walking is cool and probably faster than biking up a steep hill; I can really tell what load they carry. If they struggle up a modest hill walking and having to keep hitting their shins on the pedals, they are not walking upright. They are straining themselves to push up the bike, because it's heavy. You don't strain yourself pushing a light bike up a steep hill do you? So, they need low insane 16 or 14" gears just so that they could make it over the hill on their trucks.

I find that touring light is great. In fact, some of my friends were inspired by what I did with my carbon bike and the touring I did that blew them away (I was constantly way upfront) that 2 of my friends had switched from a heavy touring bike setup to a lighter setup and had been extremely happy with it.
I sometimes do luxury camping tours, but it's usually short and usually with friends who want the whole 9 yards -- bacon and eggs with coffee, pancakes etc.. I have a trailer for that and my bike which tows it has a low 20" gear to climb hills with. But for the most part, I tour light. It's better that way!

However, I still have friends who evangelizes the virtue of the 4 pannier system and claim that ONLY REAL TOURIST tour with 4 panniers. Suggesting that anything less than 4 is not real. I guess some people have this ego thingy that they seemed to like to inflate. Sadly, their followers suffer. There is a place for 4 panniers and that would be expedition and overseas where you need to carry more provisions and parts.

I like my steel frame bike, and I haven't got the means to replace it sooner than next summer, but the thing weighs 29lbs stock. I got tires that weigh half, took off all the extras, got a lighter rack, and a lighter seat so I suspect my Raleigh Port Townsend is down to 26, but then I'll see a beautiful early 90's chromoly serotta coming in at 19-20lbs and my mouth waters....

Time to check Craigslist again.

I like my steel frame bike, and I haven't got the means to replace it sooner than next summer, but the thing weighs 29lbs stock. I got tires that weigh half, took off all the extras, got a lighter rack, and a lighter seat so I suspect my Raleigh Port Townsend is down to 26, but then I'll see a beautiful early 90's chromoly serotta coming in at 19-20lbs and my mouth waters....

Time to check Craigslist again.

Raleigh's steel bikes are, in my opinion, way too piggy for my taste. There are better and lighter steel frames, but you need to find them. Just this year, I met a young lady (student I think) and she was riding a roughed up touring bike. It was a Nishiki International of a nice vintage (she's a nice vintage too), comparable at the time against the Miyata 1000GT. She had the perfect setup. 2 used cheap panniers, cheap tent and cheap sleeping bag strapped to the rear. It was not overloaded, but she looks like she has very little money anyhow. She was even embarrassed to tell me what she had. Ofcourse I knew what she had. A gem and the setup she had for 7 days camping was perfect. She was told by her other camping friends that she had a lousy bike, must have a LHT truck or something and 4 panniers to be a real cyclist. Yeah sure, until you hit a hill. See how's king then!

it seems that every tour is different.

different times of the year
different weather patterns to deal with
a variety of logistical options
distances
caloric demand, etc..

however I will say this much
that once you learn to be able to be self sufficient in the dirt, pavement is much easier.

easier in that logistics are that much easier to locate.

and there simply are not gradients on the pavement that are so common to mountain biking.

I finished a quick jaunt down the west coast
I honestly don't recall 1 hill coming down the coast. there are a few climbs, but climbing is just part of riding. I've become very comfortable climbing.
(a few months ago, I did a ride from Lahina, to Paia, then up Haleakala and back to Lahina, thats over 10k ft in one hill)
where I met/crossed paths during multiple days, a group of young adults all on LHT's, and all with at least 4 panniers.

wow, their camp scene every night was nothing short of impressive!
massive dinners, a lot of food, stoves, cookware, groceries, etc...
I simply marveled.

it was as if a scene from being home with friends.

the Hunter 29er, even shod in a fresh set of 2.1" Nanos was capable of +15mph av on the pave.
most days, I'd do a loop somewhere thru the dirt, exploring areas that were new to me, then eventually landing at the next camp.

some days I'd feel bad, when I'd see the group ahead, while closing the gap at over 20mph.
the difference is simply just amazing.

obviously the key here is to simply not carry too much.

it would be even that much faster if adopted to a road bike.

I've had thoughts of using my CAAD10.

from my experiences with the Oregon and Cali coasts
the road bike would be a very doable option
especially in light of the abundant amenities, especially in Oregon.

however, the 29er shod in the likes of Nano's, gives you the very real option of riding mtb trails, fire roads until your hearts content
at times I've thought of perhaps an LHT with frame bags and the likes of Schwalbe Marathon Extremes

while I still have a set of OMM racks and panniers
I admit that they are stashed away somewhere.
I never use them.
I can't get over what logic seems to pervade by using metal to hold something up, then hanging bags off of center line of the bike.
in my opinion its crazy, and to waste frame space on water bottles?
even crazier. the bike is a rack.

I am a fan of granny gears even on a twenty some pound bike with fifteen pounds of bags and gear. My low is about 21 inches, with a high of just over 100. Long days, lots of miles. I don't like to push if I can help it, and I hate being spun out. Just because I have it does not mean it always gets used. But at the end of a 100+ mile day, when all that between me and someplace to sleep is that last hill, it can be nice.

Interestingly while I really like ultra light touring(which I consider to be rackless, with under fifteen pounds of gear)I really like the look and even the feel of going all out with four bags, rack top bag, and a handlbar bag . When I do that, I go full bore, with both tent and hammock, full cooking gear, both an inflatable and closed cell pad, and so on. Options are greater, the wardrobe is nicer and helps you stay cleaner. But even full on, with my largest tent with two vestibules, clean wool socks every night and day, and cooking nice two pot meals with and using a real fork, electric toothbrush, and all that I generaly have a good time. And seldom get the load over forty five pounds. I tend to do that if I can talk someone into going with me. Usualy its only an overnighter.

i don't think that ultralight touring gear is expensive
and that lightweight gear is expensive

simply being that buying any gear costs money

zero grams = zero gear = zero money

the hardest part is simply not carrying crap.

so one thing that I've found useful is to use some masking tape, cloth medical tape, etc...
and place a piece on every single tiny piece of junk that you carry.
each time you use that item, make a hash mark on the tape.
you will quickly discover what you use, how much you use it, and the things that you don't use AT ALL.

you'd be amazed how much junk you actually carry.

every piece of equipment better serve at least double duty.
it should be multi task
if its an item that has a single focus use, it better be very important, perhaps like nitro tabs, or medications

my latest discovery is the Shoe Hammer!

laffs.

it actually works quite well.
I use Sidi Dominators with SPD's
using a shoe like a hammer, making the strike contact on the metal cleat, works amazingly well.
that only took me about 5 years to figure out. duh!