Fifty Plus (50+) - Very frustrated!!

Ok so far you guys have been very helpful and I know there is alot of experience out there. I am 56 years old and presently weigh 190 lbs. I have been cycling for a little over a year. I started cycling after having 4 way bypass surgury. I was 225 lbs and started with a Trek hybrid bike, after 6 months I bought a Felt Z100 road bike. I have ridden about 1500 miles in a year. My frustration is that I can not seem to average more than 16 to 16.5 miles per hour. The only reason I want to pick up my average is so I can go on group rides. I have joined some group rides, but I usually get dropped, because it seems I need to be around 17.5 to 18. I enjoy group rides for the fellowship, safety, and I have learned alot, but it does get very frustrating not being able to keep up the pace. I do have a cycleops trainer I have used it to try and keep in condition. I even demoed a Trek 2.0 Domane this weekend with not any better results, other than my top speeds. I was considering getting a carbon frame to see if that would give me the little extra so I could continue to join the group rides. I respect all of your experience out there.....any suggestions. I really to love to ride and group rides push me to go more miles! Would also like to know if there is anything I can do to the Felt Z100 ie. wheels, tires etc. that might help give me a little extra, I would appreciate that input also. Thanks!

I rode a hybrid for about a year when I began riding again at age 50. I was 240 lbs and was very happy with a 15 mph pace.

I switched to a drop-bar road bike and started to hold 17 mph for 30 miles.

However, staying with a fast group ride can require 20+ mph for 40 miles or more. It took me 4 years of 4000-5000 miles per year of riding to hold that pace. It also helped to have a modern, good-quality, road bike.

Aside from conditioning and muscle building there is a lot of technique involved in improving your performance in cycling.

Little things add up. It either takes time to learn about and perfect those little things or you could short cut the learning process with a coach.

While I would never talk someone out of buying more bikes, I don't believe that will solve your issue.

I have found that the odious task of quantifying ones rides then analyzing them can be helpful in speed improvements.

Average speed usually involves stopping and starting at street intersections. Perhaps the more important speed metric is cruising speed. What might that be? You average 16.5 mph but your cruising speed is most likely much higher and good enough for club rides.

Not sure what to say because there are so many variables at play. I think someone who started where you started only a year ago and weighs 190 lbs is doing well to be where you are. Of course I don't know whether your rides have any elevation but even so that seems impressive to me. I'd be tempted to find a group that rides about where I ride and spend the rest of the season just getting time in on the bike and enjoying the rides. It may just take longer than you think to get the kind of improvement you're looking for.

Thanks, but my average mph is taking into consideration stopping time. Thanks for the reply!

Average speed usually involves stopping and starting at street intersections. Perhaps the more important speed metric is cruising speed. What might that be? You average 16.5 mph but your cruising speed is most likely much higher and good enough for club rides.

I appreciate your input, I am hoping it is just a time thing...but I really do enjoy group rides

Good for you to get into cycling. I was down your way in June and noticed a number of cyclists around the Wrightsville Beach area. Do you know why you're getting dropped? I know that wind can be a factor around your area but hills are generally more subtle. Are you getting dropped due to the mileage/length of the ride and getting tired? Or is it because there is a gap in the group and you're not able to close the gap due to the wind? Or is it due to some hills in your area?

I'm guessing it's the mileage deal but you can confirm. First, riding with folks a little faster than you will help you get there-even though you're getting dropped now eventually you'll get there. Without knowing why you're getting dropped I'm going to assume it's because of getting tired. Regardless you're going to want to concentrate on doing some hard bursts for short periods. Has your doctor limited your maximum heart rate due to the surgery? Make sure you follow any advice he provides. However doing "intervals" will help increase your ability to gain a little power and help you close gaps when they form. Continue to work on your weight. That will help you immensely as well even though your terrain is fairly moderate the reduced weight will help when there are gaps and you need the extra power to close them before completely losing the wheel. I suspect that now once you lose the wheel it is way too difficult to get back on with the group. Although I don't know the style of your felt right now unless you have some extra heavy wheels I'm thinking I'd work more on the performance than think about new bike parts. However lighter weight wheels are really helpful when you're trying to accelerate quickly. The heavier wheels are fine once you get the momentum going but they take longer to spin up. That might be something to think about later on.

If you are doing 1500 miles in a year I'm thinking most of your rides are on the shorter side. You probably want to think about adding more miles to each ride. On the next organized ride think about doing the longer version (40+ mile option versus a 25-30 miles option). You are going to want to continue to build up your base miles over time.

You need two things.

More miles on your legs.

Increase your cadence and ride in the middle ring.

You need two things.

More miles on your legs.

Increase your cadence and ride in the middle ring.

There's a middle ring? :)

There's a middle ring? :)

52-42-30
http://road-bikes.findthebest.com/l/610/2012-Felt-Z100

There is a middle ring and that is the only one I use and cadance is around 90
There's a middle ring? :)

You are pretty new to cycling and may be trying to get really good, really fast and need a few more years of more mileage to get there. A new bike won't make you a lot faster but will signal the spouse that he/she's in for some financial changes. Nothing wrong in that and multiple bikes is a good thing (I have 5, no 6)

I rode the so-called "AA" rides 12 years ago, so 18-19 avg. for 50 miles. No way I can do that now (age 57), but partly cause I'm much heavier (by 30 lbs), as well as older, as well as cannot do the 5,000 miles per year required to ride at that level. Nor do I want too. Right now I can avg. 16 for 50, but suck in the hills. And slower is something I now enjoy.

So as a philosophical question, what's you're goal ?. Do you want to be fit enough to stay with the racing crowd ?. Does that help you overcome the fear generated by the bypass ? (that would be a wakeup call for me). My impression from the OP was you're doing really well for a short time riding. I think it took me 3 -5 years to get to you're level and I was 35 at the time I started cycling.

As well, I would find out if there's a group ride in your area that is a tad slower and maybe hookup with them. Or maybe bring up the subject with the ride leader(s) and ask if there's a less speedy group, or do they ever go slower.

So stick with it, as you really are doing very well.

Considering your situation you are doing well. The simple answer is to find a different group or maybe form your own to ride at a speed you find comfortable.

Wilmington. Flat as a pancake. You don't have to worry about getting dropped on the hills there.

Have you learned pace line skills? Over 14 MPH drafting saves you 30% effort.

Up your riding to 150 miles a week.
28 miles a week is not near enough.

That is another reason I would like to do group rides

Is there a "B" level ride in your area? I was discouraged that I couldn't keep up with my club ride, and it turned out we had a lot of other people in the same situation. We started a B ride as an alternative to the main club ride. For example, when the A's did a killer hills ride today, the B's rode a relatively flat 38 miles out into the country. We had several new people join us who now expect to join the club.

You are riding a perfectly good road bike. Upping to carbon or something fancy will not make an appreciable difference. Neither will spending major bucks on wheels, tires, etc.

But what pedal system are you using? Clipping in and improving your pedaling technique accordingly can easily get you 1-1.5 MPH.

Also, you can get noticeably faster by improving your position on the bike. Getting down in the drops is good for significant speed, and whilst most of us don't care to do that for most of the ride, a lower more aero position with your hands on the brake hoods and elbows bent is also going to help a lot. If you don't find that comfortable, get a professional fitting and find the most aggressive position you can muster without pain or discomfort.

I returned to group riding earlier this month after being sidelined with injuries for a long time. My strength and stamina are coming back, but in some of the earliest group rides, I was hanging on by a thread. To survive I, (a) made sure to do no pulling (b) hung near the back of the pack, and looked for somebody big/tall to draft behind and (c) kept my body position as low as I could.

And what 10 Wheels said- 1500 miles in a year isn't enough to get strong. Weekend warriors who try to hammer on Saturday without putting in the miles the rest of the week are either (a) going to fail or (b) a lot younger than us.

If you want to ride in a group, listen to 10Wheels, especially regarding mileage. In addition to that, consider adding rollers to your indoor training tools. Back when we were young and fast, my wife could barely hold 20 mph on her own but would ride for hours with a group of us who cruised at 28 mph because she could sit extremely tight to the wheel in front of her. She could do that because we all rode rollers as a regular training method. No squirrels were allowed to ride with us.

You'll still be on your own on the inclines, but at least you won't get dropped on the flats.

If you want to be faster, you have to ride fast. This, is how it was explained to me recently. I know this seems overly simplified, but the truth is, riding faster takes a serious effort that'll push you beyond your comfort level.

Take a serious look and break down each ride. What is a comfortable pace? What pace is uncomfortable; a speed that's hard to hold for any distance. Then ask yourself......are you really putting in enough effort to ride faster?

Except for the surgery, your pretty much described my story........ Started last year, 56 years old, weight was 220 lbs and currently 190, average speed between 15-16mph. Except I have apx. 3600 miles on the bike and another 700 commuting miles.

I too, would like to ride faster at distance, but that's going to take a lot more work and effort. I need to embrace the pain, continue to push my speed to +20 mph and try to hold it and continue to rack up miles. I was also advised to include intervals (on flats and hills) on a regular basis to improve speed and strength.

To be honest though, sometimes I just don't feel like it. Don't feel like burning my legs off or running out of breath. It hurts, I get sore and it just wears me out. But I know, it's what I need to do if I ever want to increase my average speed.

Well, that's my 2 cents......all the best.

Find a slower group to ride with.
Been riding 40+ years, weigh 135 and am now 80 years old.
No, I can't keep that fast a pace either but still get in 100+ miles a week.

I've been riding for 20 years and on a Metric century I can only manage 15.5 mph. But all of my rides involve elevation change. Slow uphills but try and catch me down them. Drafting when in a group helps but I lose the group when gravity goes the wrong way.

I tried Group riding and although in the main I am faster than the "B" group at our local club- I cannot keep the constant pace that they do. So I ride solo. I aim for 100 to 120 miles a week and it is not all speed work. I enjoy the scenery and I Prefer the hilly routes to the boring flat stuff.

But something that "May" increase your speed and that is a better tyre and some good wheels. I use Michelin Pro Race tyres in 23 and look after my wheels. Both have made a difference to speed for me over the OM wheels Although I still keep a pair of OM wheels for Rain/foul weather riding fitted with a cheaper Lithion tyre. Can't afford to wear out the good stuff all the time.

But 16.5 mph for 40 miles is dreamland in my book.

I agree with Zonatandem - find a slower group. I usually average about 12 mph which doesn't bother me. I don't care about how fast I go - I just enjoy riding.I average riding about 80 miles per week.

Thanks MinnMann all good info

All good information GFish...thanks!

If you want to be faster, you have to ride fast. This, is how it was explained to me recently. I know this seems overly simplified, but the truth is, riding faster takes a serious effort that'll push you beyond your comfort level.

Take a serious look and break down each ride. What is a comfortable pace? What pace is uncomfortable; a speed that's hard to hold for any distance. Then ask yourself......are you really putting in enough effort to ride faster?

Except for the surgery, your pretty much described my story........ Started last year, 56 years old, weight was 220 lbs and currently 190, average speed between 15-16mph. Except I have apx. 3600 miles on the bike and another 700 commuting miles.

I too, would like to ride faster at distance, but that's going to take a lot more work and effort. I need to embrace the pain, continue to push my speed to +20 mph and try to hold it and continue to rack up miles. I was also advised to include intervals (on flats and hills) on a regular basis to improve speed and strength.

To be honest though, sometimes I just don't feel like it. Don't feel like burning my legs off or running out of breath. It hurts, I get sore and it just wears me out. But I know, it's what I need to do if I ever want to increase my average speed.

Well, that's my 2 cents......all the best.

If you want to be faster, you have to ride fast. This, is how it was explained to me recently. I know this seems overly simplified, but the truth is, riding faster takes a serious effort that'll push you beyond your comfort level.

Take a serious look and break down each ride. What is a comfortable pace? What pace is uncomfortable; a speed that's hard to hold for any distance. Then ask yourself......are you really putting in enough effort to ride faster?

Except for the surgery, your pretty much described my story........ Started last year, 56 years old, weight was 220 lbs and currently 190, average speed between 15-16mph. Except I have apx. 3600 miles on the bike and another 700 commuting miles.

I too, would like to ride faster at distance, but that's going to take a lot more work and effort. I need to embrace the pain, continue to push my speed to +20 mph and try to hold it and continue to rack up miles. I was also advised to include intervals (on flats and hills) on a regular basis to improve speed and strength.

To be honest though, sometimes I just don't feel like it. Don't feel like burning my legs off or running out of breath. It hurts, I get sore and it just wears me out. But I know, it's what I need to do if I ever want to increase my average speed.

Well, that's my 2 cents......all the best.

That's exactly the reason for riding with faster groups. Not many of us can increase our performance levels just riding on our own. It's tough work and usually best occurs through coaching and/or putting in a lot more effort than we'd like. What you can do on your own is get in sufficient base miles so that being in the saddle for an extended period is more comfortable. But none of that occurs overnight. It's work and takes time but well worth the time put into it.

What was the slogan in Top Gun? "Train like you fight, fight like you train," or something like that.

As others have already noted, in order to increase your average speed, you are simply going to have to train to ride faster. You do this through interval training, in which you ride shorter distances at increased pace, followed by short recovery periods.

You mentioned that you have a trainer. I have found using a trainer really helped me increase my cycling fitness because it allowed me to get in more workouts per week (During the work week I ride on the trainer in the morning before I go to work and then ride outdoors on the weekends). Through trial and error I developed a standard workout on the trainer that is something like a fartlek (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fartlek ) type of workout, and it has done wonders to improve both my endurance and overall speed.

I don't know about average speed but I do OK on the flat ground with the faster group. I ride between 5 and 6 thousand miles a year by riding 3 days a week.
If I drop below that I have trouble keeping what fitness I do have. If I rode 1500 miles per year I would have trouble with the "B" group.

Of course, time and intensity are more important than miles for building speed. The best way to get faster is to ride with faster people.

I also started cycling last year, and these days, I usually manage to keep up with the "cool kids" by doing 20 to 35 mile group rides at 18.5 to 19.5.

For me it was about training and conditioning. I trained HARD - no ride was ever just a ride - it wasn't good enough if I left anything on the road - I had to be completely spent. I also went to gym quite often to build core strength. I've recently started interval training which seems to be building my strength very nicely. From all I've heard and read, I'm still not working hard enough :( But I plan to sign up with a certified trainer in the winter.

The other thing - as mentioned above - is to DO group rides (never mind if you get dropped) and draft whenever you need a rest. There's a lot of technique involved in riding fast but benefiting from micro-rests whenever you can. I've learned to apply a few of these techniques, but have probably barely scratched the surface.

I hope you manage to break through that plateau soon.

How much time on a typical day do you spend on a trainer?

The only time I use a trainer is out of desperation, maybe a few times per year. If it's raining I will ride the mtb before the trainer and I can squeeze in an hour in daylight after work most of the year.
I like to get at least 8 hours per week on the bike.

Quit beating yourself up - you're doing great. Come on - an average of 16 MPH - you're already riding hard. More miles in a week will make a difference. Dropping more weight will also make a big difference.

Constantly putting yourself in a situation where you're struggling to keep up will really suck the fun out of cycling. Like others have said - find a different group.

My group usually consists of myself.

Wilmington. Flat as a pancake. You don't have to worry about getting dropped on the hills there.

Have you learned pace line skills? Over 14 MPH drafting saves you 30% effort.

Well, there is the bridge over the IC onto the island that might be good for a few degrees of short climbing. :p

(Wilmington resident, late 80's...loved it there too except for Christmas, 1989...snow, lots and lots of snow!)

How much time on a typical day do you spend on a trainer?

As little as possible. I have one set up in my workout room, and am praying that it will rust out.

I have 2 bikes set up with lights. Each has 2 in front and 2 in back, and I ride the local MUPS early in the am, if necessary. Of course, being retired, I generally find time during the day.

When it gets really cold I swim a lot, and do resistance exercises. Every now and then I will look at the trainer, and maybe get on it and turn the cranks a few times. But, that's about it!! :)

Talk to your doc and see what your cardiac output is. See if your doc thinks your goal is possible or realistic given your health.

More miles per week sounds right to me. The miles per week you are riding, while very helpful to overall conditioning, are not enough to even build up a base of conditioning. A good solid base of conditioning is the foundation on which the real conditioning is built. http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Base-Building-for-Time-Crunched-Cyclists.htm Check out what Chris Carmichael has to say about building a base where intensity is traded for time.

Not very many people can jump into a group ride and hang on right from the start. It takes time and work to get the ability to maintain the sustained power required. Of course, with the popularity of spin classes, you do get rookies who can hang in on a reasonably fast ride. The problem with that, is the new people have zero pace line skills which can make things pretty scary.

Most cycling clubs offer slower rides of a "B" or even "C" pace. These rides are the real source of new riders for any club. The new riders learn the skills needed. They often learn how to fix a flat. They also get into better condition.

As far as paying more money on the bike to get better performance, it is a mixed bag. If you have what used to be called an "entry level racer", that is a bike with racing geometry and about Shimano 105 level components, you are getting about 95% of the performance you can get out of the bike. Sure you can pay a whole bunch more but the higher price is more in minor differences in handling, road feel and a lighter bike. At the bike club rider level, the real difference is between riders and their fitness and not the quality of the bike. I used to ride in a strong "A" group and the fastest rider in it rode the cheapest bike in the group by far.

Beyond a certain point (a point you have already reached), equipment makes no difference and is oversold. A good rider can be on just about any decent road bike and keep up with "brisk" training groups, at least until they start attacking hills or rolling up for sprints. I've been in lots of fast group on a steel fixed gear bike and not been dropped until I'm spun out on a descent.

Avoiding getting dropped in a group or a pace line is just a matter of experience. The more group riding you do, the better you'll get. Very few people can hang with a fast group in their first year or two; there's just too much to learn. It's not just a matter of sitting on a wheel. You need to know where the wind is coming from, so you're on the proper side of that wheel. You need to be able to sense speed changes before they happen. You will learn that as the group starts climbing, if the rider ahead of you is not smooth enough, his bike will kick back towards you about 6 inches as soon as he gets out of the saddle, and if you're not ready for this, you'll either crash or open a gap because you've braked on an uphill rather than just gone around him. You need to be able to see gaps opening and you need to be able to close them with minimal effort. Stuff like this takes more than one season to learn, and most guys who are good at it have learned this on race training rides and in races where it's critical knowledge that comes with the territory. Very few learn it on recreational rides because, in general, recreational riders (who are not racers or ex-racers) don't need to know how to ride well in a group, and most have no clue what really happens in a race peleton. Yeah, I generalize, but this has been my general experience.

So it's good that you're riding with a "faster" group where good paceline skills are necessary. But I would agree that you need to be riding at least 100 miles per week minimum in order to hang with a "fast" training group. You need a solid foundation of endurance, and then you need to build speed on top of that. But riding in a fast group is a good way to develop that speed, because it's akin to motorpacing. Just minimize your time at the front! As soon as you hit the front, swing off and get to the back as fast as you can! The one time you want to stay at the front is at the start of a climb. Just stay at the front and continue at your comfortable pace. If everybody starts passing you, that's fine. Just hang in as long as you can. If you're not off the back at the top of the climb, the strategy has worked! Once you're off the back, then ride home and show up at the next ride. Repeat until you're able to stay with the group. Simple.

Oh, and one more thing. I would avoid spending too much time on the trainer. It's mind-numbing and too much use of it could lead to "burn-out" and just general disinterest in riding, unless you're really passionate about going real fast. If you want to do indoor training, get some rollers and spend 15 minutes on them first thing every morning. You will develop incredible balance and bike-handling skills, especially if you get to the point where you can ride no-hands and change jerseys while rolling on them. It also helps if you can ride pace line on a track (velodrome), but this is not possible for most people. But a trainer is a poor substitute for actual riding.

Luis

I second upping your weekly mileage. But beyond that, I'd say to just go out with the group you want to ride with. See first *if* you get dropped, then how badly. You may be able to hang with them, and if not, repeated rides will improve your performance. Keep in mind that you can get a 1.5-2 mph boost in your average speed from group riding conditions, so don't think an 18 mph ride is out of the question for someone who can do 16 on his own (I don't recall if those reflect your actual numbers, but you get the idea). It may still be a rough go, but it's worth trying.

Thanks Luis...real good information.

Thanks Craig
I second upping your weekly mileage. But beyond that, I'd say to just go out with the group you want to ride with. See first *if* you get dropped, then how badly. You may be able to hang with them, and if not, repeated rides will improve your performance. Keep in mind that you can get a 1.5-2 mph boost in your average speed from group riding conditions, so don't think an 18 mph ride is out of the question for someone who can do 16 on his own (I don't recall if those reflect your actual numbers, but you get the idea). It may still be a rough go, but it's worth trying.

All of you guys have been very helpful and I really do appreciate all of your experience. I think I will try and step up my mileage. My cycling group I ride with advertise 3 pace levels and the last being 14 to 17, which I have never gone below 17mph in the group ride. I know I can keep up with a 14 to 17 group, unfortunately that is not the pace. Thanks for all of your great responses, and if anything I have learned is that it is going to take time and more miles on the bike. Thanks again!

Charlie

Believe you said you check air pressure once a week? Should do every ride and that alone males a big difference at least for me.

Believe you said you check air pressure once a week? Should do every ride and that alone males a big difference at least for me.

Yep, I check the pressure before every ride.

You're 56 and you've been riding a little over a year. I think your age and lack of riding time are part of the reason you aren't progressing as fast as you like. So I concur with others here who say you need a lot more miles under your belt

Congrats on losing the weight and getting yourself into great shape!

Be the second rider to leave after every stop. Don't be the last to leave and hang off the back and try to catch up. Start near the front and drift back if you can't hold the pace. Talk to others in the group. They have all been off the back and can see things that you need to work on.