Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Centering rear wheel?

Was doing some adjustments on my bike today and noticed something about my rear wheel. I can't seem to get it centered. If I center it in the seat stays then the wheel is off center in the chain stays. If its centered in the chain stays its not centered in the seat stays. It's not so extreme that it's rubbing the frame or anything, but I can tell. Why would this be happening, and is it something that can/should be fixed? I've had the wheel tried recently, so I wouldn't think that was the issue, unless they screwed it up somehow.

I'd check the true by eye. If it looks alright its something else.

I'd check the true by eye. If it looks alright its something else.

It looks true to me, no noticible wobble.

dish? flip the wheel in the dropouts, is it off the same direction, or the mirror image?

Frame alignment issue? Has the bike been crashed?

Frame alignment issue? Has the bike been crashed?

Shouldn't be a problem with the frame, as its essentially brand new. Build was only finished last month. Will check dish later today and report back.

Just flipped the wheel and the issue is the same (not mirrored). When I center the wheel/tire in the chain stays (since that has the least amount of clearance), I have maybe a mm or two more clearance on the drive side of the seat stay as opposed to the other side. I don't have any accurate way of measuring, but I can fit my index finger inbetween the seat stay and the wheel up to my first knuckle on the not drive side, and up to my second on the drive side. As I said, it's not much, but I wasn't sure if it was something I needed to be concerned about.

Don't worry about it. Making sure that it is strait from the dropouts/track ends to the bottom bracket is the important thing so centering it on the chain stays is the right way to go. A little variance at the seat stays doesn't make any difference.

What frame is it? Sounds like sloppy construction.

I'd return the frame. Alignment issues like that should have been caught at the factory.

It's a Leader 722TS. Returning it isn't really possible at this point.

Then take it to a LBS and see if it can be fixed by cold-setting.

I'd return the frame. Alignment issues like that should have been caught at the factory.

+1

Yes, it's likely an alighment issue with the frame. This happens on budget frames. Quality Control in budget companies will "pass" an item like this where another company will "fail" it and never sell it to customers.

This is one reason why non-budget companies charge more, because they have to "eat" their mistakes instead of selling them.

If you can return it, I would. But, if you bought it online...good luck. This is why buying from a local bike shop costs more, but is worth it in situations like this.

+1

Yes, it's likely an alighment issue with the frame. This happens on budget frames. Quality Control in budget companies will "pass" an item like this where another company will "fail" it and never sell it to customers.

This is one reason why non-budget companies charge more, because they have to "eat" their mistakes instead of selling them.

If you can return it, I would. But, if you bought it online...good luck. This is why buying from a local bike shop costs more, but is worth it in situations like this.

I've contacted the shop I purchased it from (City Grounds) as well as Leader themselves, I will let you know what they say. Assuming I can't return the frame, how big of an issue is it? I don't run rear brakes but I'm not sure what other issues it could cause it the future.

Then take it to a LBS and see if it can be fixed by cold-setting.

It can't, you can only cold set a complete rear triangle side to side and if it were off center, the wheel would have the same gap on the ss and cs. It could be that one cs is higher than the other or a ss is bowed, or....there's no way to tell what's causing the misalignment without some good measurements.
like Carleton said, this isn't rare for budget frames, but on the bright side it won't cause any problems with the ride, durability of the frame, etc.

Thanks for clarifying. It had not occured to me that cold-setting wouldn't correct an issue caused by an improperly placed weld.

I wouldn't worry about it. My cutter is the same way. Just ride it.

If you had a custom $1000+ frame would be pissed. But anything mass produced for sub $300 won't be perfect.

Anyways, this doesn't affect anything. If one nut is slammed, and the other needs to be pulled out halfway through the dropout you could have a seriously crooked frame. But mine is off a few mm or so.

Also, I would imagine a good amount of frames are like this, but people never really notice. Wasn't until I pushed the wheel 100% forward in the drop outs and noticed.

Just make sure the wheel is centered in the chainstays.

EDIT: I actually read that wrong. Thought you said it wasn't centered in the drop outs. But yeah, just checked and mine is slightly off too in the seat stays.

I wouldn't worry about it. My cutter is the same way. Just ride it.

If you had a custom $1000+ frame would be pissed. But anything mass produced for sub $300 won't be perfect.

Anyways, this doesn't affect anything. If one nut is slammed, and the other needs to be pulled out halfway through the dropout you could have a seriously crooked frame. But mine is off a few mm or so.

Also, I would imagine a good amount of frames are like this, but people never really notice. Wasn't until I pushed the wheel 100% forward in the drop outs and noticed.

Just make sure the wheel is centered in the chainstays.

EDIT: I actually read that wrong. Thought you said it wasn't centered in the drop outs. But yeah, just checked and mine is slightly off too in the seat stays.

I've seen a few such frames at the track and it's simply frustrating to have to rig the wheel to be sorta straight.

If he can get a new brand new frame as a warranty replacement, why not? He paid his hard-earned money for the product.

If he can get a new brand new frame as a warranty replacement, why not?
I agree with this to the extent that it is worth it for the OP to spend time not riding his bike because of an aesthetic issue that can only be seen if you have your nose touching the rear tire. If it is noticeable and the OP has another ride and the warranty covers it, then he should have it replaced.

Are you aware that you generally give bad advice?

Nope. I guess I'll stop.

Are you aware that you generally give bad advice?

What's with all the negativity? I thought his advice was fine.

I agree with this to the extent that it is worth it for the OP to spend time not riding his bike because of a structural issue that can only be seen if you have your nose touching the rear tire. If it is noticeable and the OP has another ride and the warranty covers it, then he should have it replaced.

ftfy ha?

ftfy ha?
No, if it is a structural issue, in the sense that it could cause a failure or negatively effect the ride then it should definitely be replaced. Only if it is a minor aesthetic issue should the OP not worry about it. At least that was what I meant before I stopped giving out advice.

It may not explode, but I don't think it's farfetched to say that it will negatively affect ride quality. And it's an issue with the construction of the frame, so I'd call it structural regardless of potential danger/negative effects.

I'd call it structural regardless of potential danger/negative effects.
Fine, but in this case there are structural issues that are only aesthetic and ones that are more significant. It doesn't seem to have fixed anything to make my quote more ambiguous. I was trying to say that in the case where the only thing that the problem was effecting was how it looked up close, then it didn't necessarily need to be replaced especially if replacing it would mean time away from the bike or actually paying for a new frame. Your edit made it seem like I was asserting that the frame was perfectly fine and I wasn't. His description made it seem like the problem was very minor but maybe it isn't.

Fair enough.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86tLeodosg

Here are a couple of shots to show what I'm talking about FYI. I know it isn't much, but it's enough that I noticed it.

271298
271299

And you say its centered near the chainstays though?

And you say its centered near the chainstays though?

As near as I can tell, yes.

So the great carleton has decided this is the appropriate place to ask a question about my chain tensioners, even though I don't see how it has anything to do with my uneven chainstays... When I'm tightening down my wheel, I find that it shifts slightly rearward. So if I adjust my chain tensioners so the wheel is where I want it, after I tighten it's slightly farther back. This can make my wheel slightly off center, and/or make my chain too tight. It also means the chain tensioners aren't flush against the axle anymore and slightly wiggle. My question is two-fold. First, is it normal for the wheel to shift slightly rearward when tightening, or am I doing something wrong. Not sure how you can mess up tightening the axle nuts, but I've also never had this issue on previous bikes. Secondly, should I go ahead and tighten the chain tensioners against the axle after I tighten down the wheel, or should I just leave them as is?

http://i.imgur.com/d6a5o.jpg

Do you track nuts?
http://harriscyclery.net/merchant/370/images/large/tracknuts.jpg

The kind with free spinning washers

Do you track nuts?
http://harriscyclery.net/merchant/370/images/large/tracknuts.jpg

The kind with free spinning washers

Yes I do.

http://i.imgur.com/d6a5o.jpg

Wow, very professional carleton. Not an abuse of your power at all...

Dude, it's obvious that he and quite a few other members are annoyed with how many threads you make around here. Even though you say that each question you have doesn't belong in the other threads you created doesn't really matter around here. You're better off making a 'Smurray's question thread' at this rate.

Edited, unnecessary commentary.

With it off centered that much, just ride it, unless of course you can get it warrantied.

Wow, very professional carleton. Not an abuse of your power at all...

Which special power did I invoke to post that jpeg?

Which special power did I invoke to post that jpeg?

This one:
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_livhi6uXLd1qi7deco1_500.gif

Do you have a picture of your "chain tensioners?" are we tugnuts on track ends?

Wow, very professional carleton. Not an abuse of your power at all...

How is carleton posting a funny pic an "abuse of power"? Anyone could have posted that. Considering chain tensioners are very often used to aid in centering a wheel, I would think the thread you already started about centering your wheel seems like an appropriate place to ask. You need to stop being so sensitive.

Using the built-in chain tensioners on your 277TS and tightening your axle nuts is not rocket science. Can you really not figure it out without the help of the entire internet?

How is carleton posting a funny pic an "abuse of power"? Anyone could have posted that. Considering chain tensioners are very often used to aid in centering a wheel, I would think the thread you already started about centering your wheel seems like an appropriate place to ask. You need to stop being so sensitive.

Using the built-in chain tensioners on your 277TS and tightening your axle nuts is not rocket science. Can you really not figure it out without the help of the entire internet?

I would really like to move on from this, but since people keep bringing it up I feel the need to respond. When I said what carleton did was an abuse of power, I didn't mean that only mods can post insulting/condescending jpegs. What I meant is that, as a mod, he shouldn't. It's not really fair to insult someone who can't do anything in return without fear of being banned. If someone is in a position of power it's their responsibility to set an example for everyone else. It would be like me going around at the school where I teach humiliating all the students knowing that they could never say anything back to me or I could just suspend them. That, to me, is an abuse of power.

As for your comment Scrod; maybe I'm a moron, because I did find tightening my rear wheel without it shifting in the dropouts to be difficult. My only experience up until now has been with road bikes with forward facing dropouts and a derailleur, which doesn't have this problem. Luckily someone posted the information about how to "walk the wheel" back to ensure it stays centered, a technique I had never heard of before.

I think it's kind of a shame that when people like me who know next to nothing about fixed gear bikes come to this community for help, they get ridiculed by people who have obviously forgotten what it's like to be incredibly excited about something that is new to them. It's especially sad when the people doing the ridiculing are the people who are supposed to be moderating the forum.

Finally, I feel the need to address the issue of me supposedly "creating too many threads". I'm not denying I create a lot of threads. I'm also not denying that most, if not all, of my threads have to do with the same bike. What I am denying is that it makes more sense for me to ask every single question I have in one giant thread. My justification is this... I asked the question because I obviously couldn't find an answer on my own. I also assume that I'm not going to be the last person to ask the question. I figure that if, a few months down the road, someone else is wondering the same thing I am it would be easier for them to search and find a thread with the specific question in the title and the specific question right there at the top of the thread. The alternative would be to have to dig through pages of irrelevant information just to get to the little bit that applies to them. In this specific example, someone would have to go through two pages of posts talking about the defective seat stays on my frame just to find out the correct way to tighten a rear wheel and the proper way to use chain tensioners.

In the end, why the hell does it matter how many threads I'm creating? They're all relevant to the topic of the forum.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/338076-rear-wheel-NOT-aligned-need-help
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/457037-Track-End-Chain-Tensioner

Literally 1 minute of Google-ing

Both threads contain links and further information from Sheldon Brown website, as well as other references.

http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

Second link when Google-ing, has information on both questions.

Dude, really? I do understand that "everyone was a noob once" but have you no mechanical skills or concept of physics at all?

Tightening axle nuts is among the easiest procedures when it comes to bicycle repair/maintenance. There isn't a forum on all of the internet that needs a thread about it.


It's not really fair to insult someone who can't do anything in return without fear of being banned. If someone is in a position of power it's their responsibility to set an example for everyone else. It would be like me going around at the school where I teach humiliating all the students knowing that they could never say anything back to me or I could just suspend them. That, to me, is an abuse of power.


You were sniveling about carleton wanting you to post in this thread - where it is still relevant - instead of cluttering up the board with a thread about axle nuts and chain tensioners. He said "cry me a river".

As I said, stop being so sensitive.

Dude, really? I do understand that "everyone was a noob once" but have you no common sense?
ftfy.

Do you have a picture of your "chain tensioners?" are we talking tugnuts on track ends?

ftfm

Bat - they look like this:

http://fixedgearshop.de/images/product_images/popup_images/927_1.jpg

I had a frame with the same kind of misalignment only somewhat more pronounced. It made it difficult to ride with no hands and also caused one of my brake pads to wear way faster than the other (cantilever brake touring frame).

This problem with the frame was the answer to my naive question of "wow how did I find such a nice essentially NOS vintage frame for so cheap". Ended up having a local framebuilder use a dremel to file the top of one dropout so that the wheel would center itself in the seatstays.

Bat - they look like this:



OK, that makes sense.

OP: Which nut do you tighten first?

Are your nuts greased? Assuming they have integrated washers, are the washers moving freely? Is the face of the washer knurled?

OK, that makes sense.

OP: Which nut do you tighten first?

Are your nuts greased? Assuming they have integrated washers, are the washers moving freely? Is the face of the washer knurled?

I tried tightening each side first, didn't seem to make any difference. Nuts are greased, and washer are moving freely. Face of the washers are knurled.

I think part of the problem is with the direction I was pushing/pulling the torque wrench. Since I don't have a stand I had the bike upside down sitting on a piece of carpet. To tighten I would orient the wrench so I was either pushing towards the floor or pulling straight up. I think switching it so I'm always pushing towards the front of the bike (into the chain tensioners) might help. I'm hoping that doing this, combined with the "walking the wheel" technique, will make it easier from now on.