Fifty Plus (50+) - Be careful what you wish for

I've been anxious to retire for quite some time now. The problem is that so many influencing factors have changed making the decision more difficult than one could imagine.

My daughter has extended her education requireing me to provide her with Health Insurance for at least an extra two years longer than I had planned. (She's due to recieve her Masters this December and has no job prospects as of yet) My company is rapidly eliminating all retiree benefits, including access to affordable Health Insurance which I desperately need for my wife until at least 2017. The list just goes on and on.

My employer is going through bankrupcy proceedings and has just offered us an opportunity to take a buyout. Here's the situation...
* I am fully retirement eligable and I really hate the hours I'm working.
*There is a buyout plan available through the end of 2012 that will net me an extra year's pay if I leave now, payable as an individual annuity spread over several years.
* My 401K has reached my goal level and is ready for investment.
* It is fairly certain that the company will eliminate all retiree Health Care benefits within the next twelve months.
*My retirement income will be less than 50K per year.
* I don't have any marketable skills for this fast paced digital world but I do hope to find at least a long term part time job to help offset Health Insurance costs, a job that I can commute to by bicycle of course.

The big advantage to leaving now is the extra year's pay. I have until the 19th of this month to decide if that extra cash, payable only as an annuity for now, is worth the leap into the great unknown. I was hoping for the opportunity to make this decision before the current buyout plans expired at the end of 2012. Now that my wish has materialized, I'm scared to death that I'll make a poor choice.

I looks like I'm going to have to pedal home the long way this evening, I gots a lot of thinking to do!!

Your current age?

Will you "own" the annuity - i.e., it will be issued to you as a policy through an established annuity company, or is it really just a monthly payment from the company? If so, is it subject to the financial vagaries of the company?

Will it be a joint and survivor annuity? This will reduce the monthly payment noticeably. Or will it end if you die?

Have they told you how much per month for the annuity.

Typically, one year's salary spread over several years will not be a whole lot per month. Any chance of a lump sum?

Why do you need to extend your health insurance for your daughter? She is finishing her MA, and there should be a job for her somewhere. I don't know whether or not it is possible to extend it in your state if she is no longer a student - her age? Can she help pay, at least?

If you pass on the buyout offer, how confident are you that you will still have a job there a year from now? IMHO, your choice is between two unknowns.

Your current age?

Will you "own" the annuity - i.e., it will be issued to you as a policy through an established annuity company, or is it really just a monthly payment from the company? If so, is it subject to the financial vagaries of the company?

Will it be a joint and survivor annuity? This will reduce the monthly payment noticeably. Or will it end if you die?

Have they told you how much per month for the annuity.

Typically, one year's salary spread over several years will not be a whole lot per month. Any chance of a lump sum?

Why do you need to extend your health insurance for your daughter? She is finishing her MA, and there should be a job for her somewhere. I don't know whether or not it is possible to extend it in your state if she is no longer a student - her age? Can she help pay, at least?

I'm 61, the bride is just shy of 59.

The annuity will be tacked onto my Defined Pension Plan I think....I have not yet been presented all of the details. No lump sums due to the bankrupcy proceedings.

I still feel responsible for my daughter's well being until she can fend for herself. She will be instructed to look into Medicaid, however.




If you pass on the buyout offer, how confident are you that you will still have a job there a year from now? IMHO, your choice is between two unknowns.

Bingo! You've hit the nail on the head!

My bride agrees with me that the time is ripe for retiring to a part time job someplace with more humane hours. I think she is correct. We're even thinking about taking a road trip to California to visit our oldest daughter. Nothing like starting out the next phase of our life by jumping into debt right away!! :innocent:

You present your situation in such a manner that I'm reading it as a choice of staying with a ship that is clearly sinking (in which case you will get wet). Or, taking a life raft of unknown sea worthiness (in which case you might get wet). Yes, it is scary stuff, because it really is more than just getting wet. Have you spoken with your wife and daughter about the choices you face and what are their thoughts?

You present your situation in such a manner that I'm reading it as a choice of staying with a ship that is clearly sinking (in which case you will get wet). Or, taking a life raft of unknown sea worthiness (in which case you might get wet). Yes, it is scary stuff, because it really is more than just getting wet. Have you spoken with your wife and daughter about the choices you face and what are their thoughts?

Scary indeed.

My wife seems to be on-board with me retiring. She seems to have some blind faith in my ability to take care of us no matter what. I'm not quite as confident as she is.

Scary indeed.

My wife seems to be on-board with me retiring. She seems to have some blind faith in my ability to take care of us no matter what. I'm not quite as confident as she is.

Man, does that sound familiar.

Look at it this way. You were looking for a job years ago when you took your present job.

The good news is that you don't have to make the decision today. You have some time to work with.

Since you are thinking that you want to continue working even if you leave your present position, now is the perfect time to start looking hard for your next job. I have heard that it is much easier to get a job when you still have a job as opposed to trying to find a job after losing your job.

If you find your next dream job in the next two weeks, would that make your decision a little easier?

Things do not sound that good if you continue working so join the ranks of the unemployed and get a fair screw out of doing it.

Different situation over here on retirement with state pensions- welfare benefits and health cover. Mind you- I have been paying for it all my working life so it is not free.

Recently retired and if I knew how hard it was going to be- I would have done something else. Not grumbling as I realise cost of living is different but I get about 1/3rd of your 50K. However with no mortgage- no HP. no bills other than living expenses- I am surviving quite comfortably. I cut the cloth to suit my needs and I do not miss what I no longer have.

But I am so busy around the house- with the grand children and family that I need a holiday. Luckily I can afford that with with the amount I do not have to spend going to work so there will not be a problem.

So write out your resignation after talking to your boss and screw the company for as much as you can and retire while you can enjoy it.

And don't forget the N+1 as your retirement present either.

Not sure how the state economy is in NY but here in Washington state if you're over 18 and don't have kids then you're pretty much not going to get Medicaid.

My daughter decided she didn't want to pay the required amount to be enrolled in the health insurance her college provided. (Is health insurance available for your daughter through where she's working on her Master's?) We did some research and found an individual policy through Regence that will cost her $95 a month as opposed to $800 per semester for the other plan. If your daughter is youngish and in good health, this might be something else for her to look into. (I'm not in any way associated with Regence but this seems like a darned good deal if it works for your daughter.)

I have faith that you will make the best decision.

I still feel responsible for my daughter's well being until she can fend for herself. She will be instructed to look into Medicaid, however.

My dad lost his job when I was a Senior in High School, so I had to find the money for college. Sounds like your daughter has gotten her Bachelor's. You may have to let her go at this point and fend for herself. The University may have a good health plan.

a part time job someplace with more humane hours.

Any job should have more humane hours. That schedule you're on really should be outlawed.


And don't forget the N+1 as your retirement present either.

+1 on N+1!

Until your daughter finds something more suited to her education, Starbucks has good benefits, including medical. I know, no prestige for her there, might be hard for her to swallow, but if she's old enough to be finishing her master's, she's old enough to begin taking care of herself.

Reid

As a former executive who has "downsized", and been both the bug and the windshield on different occasions, the primary thought I would offer is >>>>>>> THE FIRST OFFER YOU RECEIVE TO DOWNSIZE/RETIRE/QUIT EARLY/BE FIRED/ WHATEVER...... WILL BE THE BEST OFFER YOU WILL RECEIVE.<<<<<<


That they have offered it, that you are eligible for it...let it speak volumes to how much you are 1) needed and 2) wanted.

FWIW.

Agree with Mono-- You have been offered it- take it. The next batch of downsizing will not be as generous and from previous comments by you--the company does not sound that good to stay with.

I found it very hard to take the final decision to retire and I could have worked on for several years. Once I made that choice I could not wait to get out the door and I realised how poorly I was being treated and put upon by the management.

I'm familiar with "helping the kids" My oldest is a professional triathlete and personal trainer. He can only do it with my support. He makes enough to live on, but I pay his travel and entry fees. I was in the "serious generation"... get your education, then a job, then a mortgage, then a family... fun is when you retire. I hated being in that box. I'm living my youth again through my triathlete son. My second son lives in a group home and has serious issues. I got him a cell phone mostly so we could keep in touch. We get together every Saturday morning for breakfast and once a month we get a haircut after breakfast... I give him spending money every month. If I want him to wear jeans with no holes, I have to buy them. He came on a 4 day canoe trip with me in June.

These are not sacrifices for me. I have been blessed. And I wouldn't trade it for anything.
If your daughters are respectful and appreciative that's a good start. Nurture the heart to heart relationship
No decision of yours will be "right" or "wrong". Just make your mind up, and do it. No looking back.

If you don't take care of your self first you won't be able to help others. We put two "kids" through UCLA and helped the other to start a business. The "Kids" have to deal with life sooner or later. They are now on their own and doing OK.
Take the offer and don't look back. Remember when we started out we jumped first and then looked, wife, children, mortgage, job, Etc, we just did it and learned as we went. At least you have a base now, everything will turn out for the best.

Take the offer and look at it as a door opening, not closing.

I just retired this summer and our youngest daughter started grad school at Duke, she gave up a fantastic job with stunning benefits with San Francisco Fire to enter the Physician’s Assistant program. We paid for under grad at Cal, she is doing grad school with loans, like her sister did for medical school. She will be in debt after two years, which is OK; many of us have been there.

Best of luck

Yeah, so when my package arrives via US Mail...I'm taking it to my financial guy.

I have an appointment scheduled with an Elder Care laywer regarding Trust Funds, I am awaiting a callback from my financial guy regarding investing my 401K (we've already met often...just need to sign papers), and also have an appointment with another financial guy for a second opinion.

As of 11/01/2012, I will be between jobs! :)

Been there done that. The big worry is what would happen to retirement and health care. I took a buyout clear back in 1993. The big thing was it locked in the old retirement and health plans. My retirement is about half of what my pay was at the time. For a while after that retirement went down to about 1/3 pay, and now is only based on 401K. On medical I of course am on Medicare, but I get my Medicare premium paid back at 80%.

Bottom line here is the longer you wait probably the less you will get on all counts.

OT, We have missed your kind comments and great pictures. Hope this all works out for you. It was scary when we had to make "the decision".

I bet that you are more employable than you might currently think. People need workers who can think and have a good work ethic. I bet you have both abilities. Get some distance from the sinking ship and trust that you can do more than greet at the box stores!

Good plan to review the "package" with a trusted financial advisor. I went through a similar situation a few years back when offered 1 year lump sum salary which I was allowed to roll into my 401k, also a monthly cash "bridge" to my 62nd birthday. After much discussion and prayer with wife, financial advisor and friends I took the offer and never looked back. Following workforce reductions in the company did not include the 1 year salary provision.

It is a big decision but there is lots of opportunities to be had when you are not hampered by having a regular job.

Whatever you decide I wish you Good Luck!

Charlie

I'm a firm believer in Clark Howard's advice ... have a "fee only" financial planner look at your situation. Not somebody who wants to sell you anything.

You'll do fine. At 61, I am also looking forward to retirement. It's a few years off still.

Best wishes for making a very difficult decision.

As of 11/01/2012, I will be between jobs! :)

Excellent!

Will you be able to make your 100 commutes for the year by then?

Looks like you are getting off a sinking ship while there are still life boats to be had. You probably would have had to start swimming had you stayed aboard.
Best of luck to you in this new chapter. The best is yet to be, as someone once said.

Excellent!

Will you be able to make your 100 commutes for the year by then?

I counted that up today and if I ride every scheduled work day I think it will total 101....so no, I don't think it will happen.

I have already informed my supervisor that I intend to use some vacation between now and Oct. 31st. I have enough vacation to take the whole month off if I choose to.....or I could take a check for unused vacation and squirrel it away for the first major appliance or vehiclar need that arises.

Sigh......decisions, decisions, decisions.

Looks like you are getting off a sinking ship while there are still life boats to be had. You probably would have had to start swimming had you stayed aboard.
Best of luck to you in this new chapter. The best is yet to be, as someone once said.

I told my wife this evening that I'm most looking foreward to living "Normal hours". Switching from days to nights and back to days every week really, really sucks. After 41 and a half years of shift work I'm tired all over all the time. I want off of this merry-go-round.

The ship is sinking and I'm floating away dry, dumb, and happy! The year's pay I'll receive in addition to my defined pension annuity will be paid to me as an annuity for the rest of my life and at a higher rate than I could have gotten with it if I had received it as a lump sum and invested it in a guarranteed annuity myself. Since it comes from the pension fund it is as safe as my company provided annuity.

So they're going to pay me roughly and additional 3K per year for the rest of my life to retire with my full pension.

Seems an odd date to stop work but there must be a reason.

Just think of it- no more commutes on cold dark wet mornings- No servicing the bike every week and the cleaning of it--

Best news I have had for ages so glad you made what I think is the right decision- and I think you will too by a week later.

So hows the garden- the house- how many bikes need servicing and what are you going to do about the list the wife is going to start compiling.

Wish you all the luck in the world and Hope you find some time to get a few bike rides in.

I told my wife this evening that I'm most looking foreward to living "Normal hours". Switching from days to nights and back to days every week really, really sucks. After 41 and a half years of shift work I'm tired all over all the time. I want off of this merry-go-round. The ship is sinking and I'm floating away dry, dumb, and happy! The year's pay I'll receive in addition to my defined pension annuity will be paid to me as an annuity for the rest of my life and at a higher rate than I could have gotten with it if I had received it as a lump sum and invested it in a guarranteed annuity myself. Since it comes from the pension fund it is as safe as my company provided annuity. So they're going to pay me roughly and additional 3K per year for the rest of my life to retire with my full pension.

Happy for you...Good Deal.

And how are you going to cope not being a workaholic? Have you a plan for that yet? And have you and your wife worked out how you are going to cope with each other?

And how are you going to cope not being a workaholic? Have you a plan for that yet? And have you and your wife worked out how you are going to cope with each other?

Workaholic?!?! Ooooo, you're funny!!

There are two unkowns that have us concerned....the future cost of Health Insurance until we are Medicare eligable and where the money to pay for it will come from. Those of you who are familiar with my household's health history can understand why we're concerned.

I'm relatively certain that my company will drop all retiree benefits as soon as they emerge from Chapter 11, leaving us out in the cold so to speak. Part of the logic for taking this buy-out is having a window between now and the loss of those benefits to "find my way" and settle into a method of accruing some additional income to cover those future expenses.

As far as coping with me......Oh what a lucky woman my wife will be! :innocent:

Seems an odd date to stop work but there must be a reason.

Just think of it- no more commutes on cold dark wet mornings- No servicing the bike every week and the cleaning of it--

Best news I have had for ages so glad you made what I think is the right decision- and I think you will too by a week later.

So hows the garden- the house- how many bikes need servicing and what are you going to do about the list the wife is going to start compiling.

Wish you all the luck in the world and Hope you find some time to get a few bike rides in.

Seems an odd date to stop work but there must be a reason.

It's a limited time offered buy-out. I was informed on the 5th of Sept. that I have until noon on the 19th of Sept. to turn in my paperwork or loose out on the buy-out goodies. Those goodies are an additional annuity equivilant to one years pay, four months of free Health Insurance, and access to job placemant services.


Just think of it- no more commutes on cold dark wet mornings- No servicing the bike every week and the cleaning of it--

I was supposed to clean my bike? Uh oh!! :eek:


Best news I have had for ages so glad you made what I think is the right decision- and I think you will too by a week later.

Thank you, Stap. The logical part of my brain says this is the right time to go. That's going to have to be good enough for now....


So hows the garden- the house- how many bikes need servicing and what are you going to do about the list the wife is going to start compiling.

Having been working 12.5 hour shifts (two day shifts followed by two night shifts every week, with plenty of overtime required also) for the last 25+ years, all those items are in very shoddy condition. There is no lack of work at home, for sure.


Wish you all the luck in the world and Hope you find some time to get a few bike rides in.

Again, thank you. I've been practicing taking leisurly bike rides for years in anticipation of this event. I'm ready in that department.

Consumer advocate Clark Howard would also have some advice for you regarding your daughter. His advice to parents ALWAYS is that your retirement security comes FIRST. Your daughter will have plenty of time to pay off education loans (stay away from private lenders though) but she will have her own life and family to consider when you get older. You can't depend upon her to finance your later years so you must do it yourself. The big unknown is health care and how you will deal with it until Medicare kicks in some years down the road.

BTW, for several years I worked with a fellow who had been laid off from the largest employer in Rochester - Kodak - way back in the mid 1980s when they began their long downhill slide. He moved to the southwest to take a modest job. This guy who was highly educated was paying for his daughter's MBA program while he lived like a pauper. I personally thought that with her future earning potential she could have borrowed enough so that he could have lived a little better.

Workaholic?!?! Ooooo, you're funny!!

There are two unkowns that have us concerned....the future cost of Health Insurance until we are Medicare eligable and where the money to pay for it will come from. Those of you who are familiar with my household's health history can understand why we're concerned.

I'm relatively certain that my company will drop all retiree benefits as soon as they emerge from Chapter 11, leaving us out in the cold so to speak. Part of the logic for taking this buy-out is having a window between now and the loss of those benefits to "find my way" and settle into a method of accruing some additional income to cover those future expenses.

As far as coping with me......Oh what a lucky woman my wife will be! :innocent:
I'm glad someone thinks so!

Your daughter is an adult; have her behave like one and be responsible for herself . . .
Heck you dould drop dead next week . . . grab the offer, it's better than the unknown.
Retired 17 years ago. All debts were paid. No mortgage/car/credit card payments.
Have never used a financial adviser but policy has always been: want it? . . . pay for it in ca$h, avoid credit.
Not rich, but living comfortably.
Enjoy life . . . NOW!

Congratulations on achieving a deserved retirement. I worked shift work a short time and know how difficult it becomes. I can't imagine how hard it would be to do it as long as you have. Many who worked for me as shift workers looked forward to getting a day job or to retirement.

Thank you all for your advice and congratulations.

I turned in my first batch of "Papers" today, so now it's official...I'm retiring as of 10/31.

I anticipate cycling to play a very active role in my retirement, so in order to have the flexibility to haul my bikes with both of our vehicles I opted to go the route of buying a hitch rack that has the capability to haul any two of my bikes simuntaneously. My S-10 has a Class III hitch already and I was scheduled to have U-Haul intstall a Class II hitch on our old Camry this morning. It would then be a simple matter of popping the bike rack on which ever vehicle we were using that day.

U-Haul couldn't overcome the rusty bolts under our car and gave up. My trusted mechanic was kind enough to tackle the job for us allowing me to provide him with the hitch, which I was able to purchase from U-Haul for far less than my mechanic's cost would have been for a hitch through his supplier. I'll simply pay him for his labor.

He's been our mechanic for years and is fully aware of our financial, employment, and health situation. His willingness to forego his profit from selling me a hitch is just the most recent example of his kind hearted and fair method of doing business, but I'm treating it as a retirement gift just the same.

So there you have it. One more item on my hit list is complete. I can now drive our more economic vehicle and bring a bike or two of my choosing along with me. Ho Hum....I'm getting tired just thinking of all the fun I'm going to have!!

I guess I really am happy that my wish came to fruition. :)

Cranky, in light of today's announcement of them laying off 1,000 more people by the end of the year, I'm sure you feel even better about making the decision. I now I'd be thinking, dodged a bullet there.

I've been anxious to retire for quite some time now. ... Now that my wish has materialized, I'm scared to death that I'll make a poor choice.

I looks like I'm going to have to pedal home the long way this evening, I gots a lot of thinking to do!!

You could try posting your situation on this subforum of the Diehards board. Solid perspectives offered.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

Your post caught my attention. I'm 63 and have worked myself out of a job. I'm retiring as of 9/15 after 38 years in the banking industry. It is a bittersweet moment but I'm ready to move on. I loved working for my present employer but understood from the outset, my job was to work myself out of a job for which I was handsomely paid and rewarded. The critical issue was health insurance until I am eligible for Medicare when I turn 65. I am blessed that my wife's employer will let me tack on to her plan. Things will be different but I am still able to take nourishment on a daily basis and ride my bike. My new job will be to be Mr. Mom and take care of our 10 year old son. Yep...old fart with a kid!

I told my wife this evening that I'm most looking foreward to living "Normal hours". Switching from days to nights and back to days every week really, really sucks. After 41 and a half years of shift work I'm tired all over all the time. I want off of this merry-go-round.

The ship is sinking and I'm floating away dry, dumb, and happy! The year's pay I'll receive in addition to my defined pension annuity will be paid to me as an annuity for the rest of my life and at a higher rate than I could have gotten with it if I had received it as a lump sum and invested it in a guarranteed annuity myself. Since it comes from the pension fund it is as safe as my company provided annuity.

So they're going to pay me roughly and additional 3K per year for the rest of my life to retire with my full pension.

Sounds like my shift, a 3-2-2-3 12 hour swing shift. One's thing for certain, you will feel like crap most of the time! Glad you're getting out while the getting is good. It sounds like a great decision with lots of opportunities ahead! Best of luck to you!